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Thread: Ranger vs. Wizard
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2014-04-05, 12:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
Re: Ranger vs. Wizard
1: Read the third Paragraph of Spellshatter. Which you clearly haven't been. At all.
2: From Smite to Song does not give a class feature called Inspire courage like Harmonious Knight 1. It gives the ability to Duplicate the Inspire Courage Bardic Music ability. And as anyone who has read Complete Arcane knows, If it walks like a class feature, talks like a class feature, and smells like a class feature, it qualifies as that classfeature for all intents and purposes.My Homebrew: found here.
When you Absolutely, Positively, Gotta Drop some Huge rocks, Accept NO Substitutes
PM Me if you would like a table from my homebrew reconstructed.
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2014-04-05, 12:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
Re: Ranger vs. Wizard
1. I did. It said it replaces it. Not counts as or anything of the sort. Notice other paladin sub levels in that same chapter that reference that you never gain remove disease ( as in no extra uses ). We can also use certain tradings of Turn Undead, but that would prove me correct again.
2. If stuff worked like that, then there wouldn't be confusion for Fist of the forest's AC or stacking of ac from different stats ( think monk ). Or the chief one, turn undead swaps. As for the original saying of 'walks like a duck, talks like a duck, etc.' maybe it's a hunter trying to mimic the duck as much as possible to get a better shot at it.Last edited by animewatcha; 2014-04-05 at 12:56 AM.
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2014-04-05, 01:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ranger vs. Wizard
So I think I just want to put in my two cents on the matter.I'm quite sure a lot of good points have been made. So first I'd like to state the matter of linear fighter vs. quadratic wizard in this case we have the ranger who is forced into a linear progression presuming he doesn't dive into some obscure prestige class.
The ranger has the benefit of being extremely good at what he does while working in some other areas such as having a good animal companion, tracking, stealth, and being able to work some magic. It's well put together about level ten the ranger could pick up the gear he needs like armor and a nasty enough weapon and be done with all that. A bonebow greatbow with the Distance gets him a pretty good distance with range increments he can hit some insane distances. (Math reads out to 3,000 feet at a minus 10 if he took far shot. With some spare cash due to low maintenance the ranger can pick up a few gadgets and charms to help him along some protection from scrying and some healing supplies goes a long way. On top of this the ranger can get himself huge benefits to killing something and if he's been hunting this wizard his whole life he'll just keep going human or whatever it is.
So he'll have a huge bonus to hit the wizard and with his favored terrain he can get past any plane the wizard wants to hop off to. I like the Rangers odd of finding the wizard and taking out his familiar. I like his odds of hurting the wizard but the wizard can flee. The wizard will flee he has no reason to stay. The rangers hope is in that he can make the Wizard flee and loot his lab and such and than find the wizard again. Rinse and repeat until the ranger gives the wizard nowhere to run.
Honestly the wizard can try to stay and fight but the ranger has some of the best saves around and could hold his own for a long while. The wizard can have some high level buffs or try to kill the ranger with high level spells he can't have both. So some eighth level spells the ranger can take, he can kill the wizards familiar as I mentioned and with that the ranger's animal companion can attack the wizard every time he casts a spell and hopefully interrupt.
I'm not going to say the ranger will win if he does it will be a long drawn out fight and it will be a good fight.This is horrifying beyond anything Lovecraft ever wrote or Giger ever drew.
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2014-04-05, 02:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
Re: Ranger vs. Wizard
best case scenario a ranger will be dealing about 420 damage/standard action with a bow out to 30'
Best case scenario a Wizard will be dealing about 3600 damage as a standard action from outside Longbow maximum range.
1: Replaces the Standard Paladin's Remove disease. It does not say that it replaces the Paladin's Remove disease class feature, it specifies that it replaces the Standard paladin's remove disease.
2: a Humanoid can not walk like a duck, and no one is going to spend several hours in a septic tank to smell like a duck. From Smite to Song gives you Bardic Music: Inspire Courage as bound to your smite evil charges. your Counter: Fist of the Forest, would in fact stack with the Monk's AC bonus because they are both untyped bonuses which only share conditions under which they stop functioning. sure RAI they are mutually exclusive, but RAW they are both untyped, and thus stack.Last edited by toapat; 2014-04-05 at 02:15 PM.
My Homebrew: found here.
When you Absolutely, Positively, Gotta Drop some Huge rocks, Accept NO Substitutes
PM Me if you would like a table from my homebrew reconstructed.
Drow avatar @ myself
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2014-04-05, 02:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ranger vs. Wizard
Last edited by Killer Angel; 2014-04-05 at 02:13 PM.
Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself. I am large, I contain multitudes. (W.Whitman)
Things that increase my self esteem:
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2014-04-05, 02:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ranger vs. Wizard
True enough. The real issue is the other part of it, which is the far more likely worst case scenario. In it, the ranger uses his standard action to try to deal 420 damage from 30 feet out, and the wizard uses friendly fire, and the ranger dies instantly. Really, it's the likelihood of either outcome that is far more important than the damage dealt, though range is a relevant factor for that analysis.
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2014-04-05, 02:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ranger vs. Wizard
Hide life and the wizard ignores damage?
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2014-04-05, 02:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
Re: Ranger vs. Wizard
the problem is, the optimal ranger for ranged combat has a number of restrictions. Skirmish's 5d6 is precision damage, its very feat intensive, theres a 3 level splash into Scout, you get -2 damage vs casters because theres only 4 favored enemies. you have to move alot each round. They dont get anything from the farshot subline of archery.
the mailman? throws a scorching ray, aimed by divination, at the ranger and kills them from outside their maximum range because the ranger doesnt have Farshot.
Melee rangers and Wildshapers arent even that lucky.
i dont think that would actually allow the Wizard to win, because i dont believe that partial action was defined in 3.5Last edited by toapat; 2014-04-05 at 02:46 PM.
My Homebrew: found here.
When you Absolutely, Positively, Gotta Drop some Huge rocks, Accept NO Substitutes
PM Me if you would like a table from my homebrew reconstructed.
Drow avatar @ myself
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2014-04-05, 03:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2011
Re: Ranger vs. Wizard
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2014-04-05, 03:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
Re: Ranger vs. Wizard
My Homebrew: found here.
When you Absolutely, Positively, Gotta Drop some Huge rocks, Accept NO Substitutes
PM Me if you would like a table from my homebrew reconstructed.
Drow avatar @ myself
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2014-04-05, 04:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ranger vs. Wizard
So... What cheese is the wizard using to avoid concentration checks from damage? Because all the ranger needs to do is hide, ambush and ready an action to shoot the wizard if they try to cast or move more than 30ft.
Attacking from surprise, you can be within whatever range you want, hold your action (even if it is only a single standard action, that's still one attack) into the first round of combat and then disrupt their magic. Conditional damage (i.e. sneak attacks from a second class) can easily push the DC so high they cannot cast.I played: Arin of the Silver Tongue, Barri Poari
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2014-04-05, 04:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ranger vs. Wizard
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2014-04-07, 06:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ranger vs. Wizard
Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself. I am large, I contain multitudes. (W.Whitman)
Things that increase my self esteem:
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2014-04-07, 06:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
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2014-04-07, 07:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2011
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2014-04-07, 11:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2011
Re: Ranger vs. Wizard
Basic daily buffs, the fact that you can't ready more than one action at a time, and the fact that "I ready an action to shoot him the next time he casts a spell" means you'll be screwed by him baiting you with a casting of Featherfall.
One attack stops one spell. Wizards can cast 2/round at the basic level (with or without Quicken there's still an impressive array of Immediate/Swift action spells), and several times that with additional tricks.
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2014-04-07, 01:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2011
Re: Ranger vs. Wizard
There's also Abrupt Jaunt and Celerity.
And unless you can hit ethereal/invisible, you shouldn't count on attacking them reliably to begin with.Last edited by Story; 2014-04-07 at 01:29 PM.
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2014-04-07, 01:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ranger vs. Wizard
Yep. Like I said, Friendly Fire already does a better job, especially if it's Persisted.
And unless you can hit ethereal/invisible, you shouldn't count on attacking them reliably to begin with.Avatar of Rudisplork Avatar of PC-dom and Slayer of the Internet. Extended sig
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2014-04-07, 02:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ranger vs. Wizard
Yeah, Persisted Friendly Fire is crazy. But it's too cheesy for my tastes, and I thought I'd point out that there are many alternatives which would also neutralize the Ranger.