The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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    Default Concerning a particular relative of a main character (spoilers SoD)

    Not sure on whether it's ok to talk about this outside of spoilers, since it deals with Start of Darkness. It's been 12 years, but I'm sure many new readers have only read the on-line comics.

    Spoiler: Start of Darkness
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    I've seen various tin foil hat theories floating around in different threads about the identity of Redcloaks niece, the last surviving member of his family, and what impact she might have on the end-game of the story. I've always seen this in passing, often as a joke. Are there any legitimate (even if they are out there) theories on Redcloak's neice? Would anyone like to share their favorite?
    Last edited by knag; 2019-11-06 at 02:13 PM. Reason: title gore
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    Default Re: Concerning a particular relative of a main character (spoilers SoD)

    I think that this mysterious younger relative of a major character who appears in SoD will return as a paladin trying to avenge the death of the second to last character to die in that book.because dancing around spoilers is fun!
    Last edited by Schroeswald; 2019-11-06 at 02:20 PM.
    Spoiler: Read this if I've posted a theory in the post above
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I recognize that Conservation of Detail is Overrated, but I find the event that I am using as evidence for my theory above important enough/given enough focus to qualify for what I call Elan’s Exception, “Who wastes perfectly good foreshadowing like that?”. Also I have never correctly predicted any event in any piece of media so take this theory with a grain of salt (I call this Peelee’s Ye Old Reminder).

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    Default Re: Concerning a particular relative of a main character (spoilers SoD)

    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I think that this mysterious younger relative of a major character who appears in SoD will return as a paladin trying to avenge the death of the second to last character to die in that book.because dancing around spoilers is fun!
    I like how you expressed that without the need for spoiler tags.
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    Default Re: Concerning a particular relative of a main character (spoilers SoD)

    The jokes are as legitimate as the theories; in that there's nothing to give them any legitimacy.
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    Default Re: Concerning a particular relative of a main character (spoilers SoD)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    The jokes are as legitimate as the theories; in that there's nothing to give them any legitimacy.
    Maybe we could use some Legitimancy spell for that...
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    Default Re: Concerning a particular relative of a main character (spoilers SoD)

    Quote Originally Posted by D.One View Post
    Maybe we could use some Legitimancy spell for that...
    We have. That's how we got the comic showing that Hilgya was coming back.
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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Concerning a particular relative of a main character (spoilers SoD)

    Unfortunately, we need more XP to cast it again without losing a level.

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    Default Re: Concerning a particular relative of a main character (spoilers SoD)

    But in all seriousness, I don't think that particular person is going to show up, especially not in the endgame. Everybody who hasn't read SoD will just be confused and Rich himself said that SoD was the most completed arch of OOTS

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    Default Re: Concerning a particular relative of a main character (spoilers SoD)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jannoire View Post
    But in all seriousness, I don't think that particular person is going to show up, especially not in the endgame. Everybody who hasn't read SoD will just be confused and Rich himself said that SoD was the most completed arch of OOTS
    If said character has a narrative role to play it could get a Quick recap to explain what happened in the prequel books. It has happened Before - both Haley's and Durkon' backstories from OOTPCS were recapped when they started to affect the main story, and Crystal killing Grubwiggler was referenced too even though it happened in a bonus story. So I am not ruling it out for that reason.
    Besides,
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    Right-Eye has been referenced a few times in the main story - I don't Think that is just fan service for those who read the prequels. I expect him to become plot-relevant Before the end of the story somehow. Reintroducing his daughter would be an excellent way to accomplish this.

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    Default Re: Concerning a particular relative of a main character (spoilers SoD)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jannoire View Post
    But in all seriousness, I don't think that particular person is going to show up, especially not in the endgame. Everybody who hasn't read SoD will just be confused and Rich himself said that SoD was the most completed arch of OOTS
    SoD tells us nothing about this person other than they exist. If they appear in the online story, nothing is stopping them from doing so as a fully-fledged character whose relation to existing ones is a big in-character reveal. People who read SoD are just going to see it coming easier than those who didn't.
    Last edited by Morty; 2019-11-07 at 04:06 AM.
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    Default Re: Concerning a particular relative of a main character (spoilers SoD)

    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    SoD tells us nothing about this person other than they exist. If they appear in the online story, nothing is stopping them from doing so as a fully-fledged character whose relation to existing ones is a big in-character reveal. People who read SoD are just going to see it coming easier than those who didn't.
    This is more in line with my expectation. Minrah was a new character in UD, and she quickly became a major character. There's no reason why a new goblin character couldn't be introduced and developed in book 7, which would raise the eyebrows of prequel readers but be perfectly normal to everyone else.
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    Default Re: Concerning a particular relative of a main character (spoilers SoD)

    Also how long has it been since that part of Start of Darkness (in Universe, I mean)? They make a point about how Goblins only live to 50 or so before dying of Old Age, and that's only if nothing kills them first. Which a lot of things want to.
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    Default Re: Concerning a particular relative of a main character (spoilers SoD)

    Quote Originally Posted by The MunchKING View Post
    Also how long has it been since that part of Start of Darkness (in Universe, I mean)? They make a point about how Goblins only live to 50 or so before dying of Old Age, and that's only if nothing kills them first. Which a lot of things want to.
    IIRC, the age question is actually a (mild) point in favor of the character in question showing up, as they would be around standard young adult adventurer age by now.
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    Default Re: Concerning a particular relative of a main character (spoilers SoD)

    Quote Originally Posted by The MunchKING View Post
    Also how long has it been since that part of Start of Darkness (in Universe, I mean)? They make a point about how Goblins only live to 50 or so before dying of Old Age, and that's only if nothing kills them first. Which a lot of things want to.
    No more than two years.
    Last edited by HorizonWalker; 2019-11-07 at 10:57 AM.

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    Default Re: Concerning a particular relative of a main character (spoilers SoD)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    Unfortunately, we need more XP to cast it again without losing a level.
    And it took twelve years!
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    Default Re: Concerning a particular relative of a main character (spoilers SoD)

    Quote Originally Posted by HorizonWalker View Post
    No more than two years.
    Spoiler: Start of Darkness
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    She attended the circus where MitD was performing 3 years prior to the start of the comic, which is more than 4 years prior to the current time. She was of indeterminate age at that time, but certainly a child/juvenile. I'm not knowledgeable about the maturation profile for goblins in 3.5e, but I would expect her current age to be ~10 years, and given the short lifespan of goblins, that would be equivalent to maybe a 18-20 year old human.
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    Default Re: Concerning a particular relative of a main character (spoilers SoD)

    The comic started around a year from ‘now’, since Belkar is fated to die before the next Southern New Year and it certainly did not take them a year to go from Dorukan’s Dungeon to azure City where we saw the New Year festivities.
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    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
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    Default Re: Concerning a particular relative of a main character (spoilers SoD)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    The comic started around a year from ‘now’, since Belkar is fated to die before the next Southern New Year and it certainly did not take them a year to go from Dorukan’s Dungeon to azure City where we saw the New Year festivities.
    There is (or at least there used to be) a thread that kept track of this timeframe.
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    Default Re: Concerning a particular relative of a main character (spoilers SoD)

    RMS Oceanic made the original timeline thread. That thread passed the necromancy limit, but the info has been incorporated into the wiki Timeline page. Is that timeline accurate? We know that the timeline as published is inconsistent, The Giant has said as much, so no, probably not. But it's the best attempt to make a rational timeline out of the events portrayed in all the source material, with the addition of The Giant's published comments in this forum. If you find an error in it, please correct it with justification. That's the point of a wiki.

    Spoiler: On the Origin of PCs
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    The Order is formed in April 1183.
    The comic started sometime in late 1183, prior to both the Northern and Southern new years. The current events of the comic are at minimum 388 days from "New Edition", and the world has a 365 day year. Belkar has less than three weeks to live, so slightly more than a year has passed since the start of the comic.

    Spoiler: Start of Darkness
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    Further, Redcloak's Niece's attendance at the circus where she saw MitD was 3 years prior to the start of the comic, making her 4 years older than she was at that time. We don't really know how old she was, nor do we know at what age goblins reach adulthood, but it roughly holds together that she might be 10 years old and that might be something like adulthood or late adolescence for goblins.
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    Default Re: Concerning a particular relative of a main character (spoilers SoD)

    Quote Originally Posted by knag View Post
    RMS Oceanic made the original timeline thread. That thread passed the necromancy limit, but the info has been incorporated into the wiki Timeline page. Is that timeline accurate? We know that the timeline as published is inconsistent, The Giant has said as much, so no, probably not. But it's the best attempt to make a rational timeline out of the events portrayed in all the source material, with the addition of The Giant's published comments in this forum. If you find an error in it, please correct it with justification. That's the point of a wiki.
    I seem to remember learning in school that Twelfth Night has an inconsistent timeline. The commentary I read at the time stated that this was fine because it made sense when put on as a play. I think my reading that was very consistent with adults constantly telling me that I would understand when I was older. I now feel that those adults were hiding their ignorance. I'm not sure how this relates to OOTS though. I'm just venting about the inconsistent timeline of my life.
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    Default Re: Concerning a particular relative of a main character (spoilers SoD)

    It would be interesting if said character showed up. It is hard to see how they would end up in the action at this point. However it is expected that a lot will happen before the end so who knows.

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    Default Re: Concerning a particular relative of a main character (spoilers SoD)

    It would be interesting that said relative of a main comic's character, who appeared in a prequel book, would come back in the main comic before the conclusion of the story. However, the lack of foreshadowing in the main comic about said character's existence, leads me to think chances are pretty low.

    Said characer, whose skin appears to reflect light at a wavelenght of about 495–570 nm and a frequency of about 526–606 THz, seems to have fulfilled it's intended role in the prequel book said character appeared in.
    Last edited by The Pilgrim; 2019-11-14 at 01:41 PM.

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    Default Re: Concerning a particular relative of a main character (spoilers SoD)

    Said character has been foreshadowed to exist by proxy, given that MiTD has said "Right-Eye" once or twice in the comic itself. Said character's ending in SOD is notably different to other similar characters' endings, which could well be for narrative purposes.

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    Default Re: Concerning a particular relative of a main character (spoilers SoD)

    MiDT has said the name "Right Eye". But we aren't talking about "Right Eye" here. Neither the relation of "Right Eye" with any character of the main story has ever been explained or referenced in the main comic.
    Last edited by The Pilgrim; 2019-11-14 at 06:35 PM.

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    Default Re: Concerning a particular relative of a main character (spoilers SoD)

    ...seeing as the running gag of hamfisted ambiguity is now maimed, and since the thread is in fact marked for SoD spoilers in its title....I'm going to say that we're only likely to (knowingly) see Redcloak's niece in the main comic when/if she becomes relevant. That, of course, will most likely (if it happens) be as a symbol of the core conflict of Redcloak's life: The death of his little sister at the hands of the Sapphire Guard (themselves symbolic of the gods other than the Dark One), and the death of his little brother at the hands of...himself (himself symbolic of the Dark One).

    Durkon simply proposing Redcloak getting on board with Thor's idea to seal the rifts turns Redcloak into the battleground for a proxy fight between the gods, and his niece would readily externalize that conflict and thus make it more interesting to portray a comic strip.

    Again, if it happens. Almost certainly not the only role she'd fill, too; and there's no telling what else could happen that'd warrant introducing another character.
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    Default Re: Concerning a particular relative of a main character (spoilers SoD)

    At the very least she would exposit to the Order and the readers that have not read Start of Darkness who Right-Eye was and what happened to him, just like Brewmaster Blackore did for durkon's backstory.

    The only other two characters who know (and in fact the only two who know how Right-Eye died) are Xykon and Redclaok who have basically a tacit agreement never to discuss it.

    Also Right-Eye has also been alluded to in the main comic when tsukiko said Xykon told her to call Redcloak Wrong-Eye when she wants to piss him off but didn't explain the joke.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
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    Default Re: Concerning a particular relative of a main character (spoilers SoD)

    Cylinder has referenced Right-Eye with all the Wrong-Eye comments, and MiTD has directly mentioned him I think twice, along with Redcloak speaking to his reflection in the mirror. Right-Eye being discussed at some point is highly foreshadowed.

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    Default Re: Concerning a particular relative of a main character (spoilers SoD)

    Redcloak is on his way to become a more central figure in the plot, as Thor's plan involves him directly and the plan to seize the Gates is ultimately his. Not to mention his increasingly strained relationship with Xykon, which so far manifests itself as passively and covertly undermining him. While I'm not going to say I'm certain something will or won't happen, I think that dismissing the possibility of his niece appearing is strange. She's the only surviving family member of a man who has sacrificed everyone he knew and loved for his plan, convincing himself it's for the good of the goblin people while getting them killed by the truckload. Being confronted with his past this way would be entirely appropriate.
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    Default Re: Concerning a particular relative of a main character (spoilers SoD)

    I'm certain that Right-Eye's Daughter will show up in some capacity, probably as an adventurer (my bet would be Paladin) trying to hunt down Redcloak.

    Redcloak's going to be a primary focus of Book 7, I can't imagine his only surviving relative won't play a part in that story, especially considering how important his family was to him in Start of Darkness.

    She's also probably the best source of exposition on the events of Start of Darkness, something that the Order (and online only comic readers) will need to be made aware of.

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    Default Re: Concerning a particular relative of a main character (spoilers SoD)

    I was going to say that it is unlikely that the Giant would bring back her (he didn't even bothered to provide her with a name in SoD), given how many people is already expecting it.
    However... yes, they meet Elan's dad in the western continent, as everyone expected. And Hilgyia showed up again and with a child from Durkon. As everyone expected.
    So, I am going to change my vote and say that Redcloak's niece will appear again, and her apparition will be awesome.

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