League of Legends LVIII: URFworld

[Farix]

Spoiler: NA Quarterfinals: CLG v Coast

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CLGs looking pretty good, solid win in game 1 and a nice bit of a comeback in 2. But man, poor NintendudeX didn't get any chance to farm, pretty sure by the end of the match he still didn't have his Feral Flare.

Riots posted the sales schedule for May, kinda nice to have an idea of whats coming up and when.



So with the release of Manly Support I've been thinking of having a Manly teamcomp in the style of the Void comp. So far I've got:
Top: Rugged Garen
Jungle: Mantheon (Ruthless probably)
Mid: High Noon Yasuo
ADC: DRAAAAAVEN
Support: Braum

[ex cathedra]

Spoiler: NA Quarterfinals: CLG v Coast

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CLGs looking pretty good, solid win in game 1 and a nice bit of a comeback in 2. But man, poor NintendudeX didn't get any chance to farm, pretty sure by the end of the match he still didn't have his Feral Flare.

Riots posted the sales schedule for May, kinda nice to have an idea of whats coming up and when.

Spoiler

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Coast gave up every right they had to win game 2 when they let CLG instigate 4v0 laning. their duo lane, jungle, and top lane matchups are all severely disadvantaged by that sort of early game.

[lord_khaine]

Dam, that play there from Dignitas vs Curse was just beautiful.

[Forrestfire]

Spoiler: Dig vs Crs

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Yeah, it really was. I'm amazed that they both got out XD

[ex cathedra]

Dam, that play there from Dignitas vs Curse was just beautiful.

i thought that it was extraordinarily embarrassing. huge mistakes must be made in order for that to happen.

[Antonok]

Month of May's Skin/Champion sale list.

And I was debating whether to get some RP soon too

[Don Julio Anejo]

So with the release of Manly Support I've been thinking of having a Manly teamcomp in the style of the Void comp. So far I've got:
Top: Rugged Garen
Jungle: Mantheon (Ruthless probably)
Mid: High Noon Yasuo
ADC: DRAAAAAVEN
Support: Braum

No, no, no. You want AP Lumberjack Sion.

[Ashen Lilies]

What is this I don't even.

Spoiler: Screencap

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Lissandra asked in champ select if anyone on the team was American, and then someone said yes. When it was her turn to pick, they instalocked Smite Lissandra and then warned us that 'we better dodge now' because she doesn't let Americans win games. Then she started feeding mid and jungle kills (literally walking into Noc's jungle and waiting at his camps for him to kill her), and asking Ori and Noc to build Mejai's/SotO so she could feed them more, all while ranting about not letting Americans win games.

I've literally never seen anything like this before. Usually when I get trolled, it's because people are petty about losing their roles or whatever. I've never seen anything this inexplicable. I'm even having trouble believing that game even existed, and wasn't a figment of my imagination or something. Do people like that even exist?

Like I even needed to be more pessimistic about ever getting into Gold.

[mrcarter11]

What is this I don't even.

Spoiler: Screencap

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Lissandra asked in champ select if anyone on the team was American, and then someone said yes. When it was her turn to pick, they instalocked Smite Lissandra and then warned us that 'we better dodge now' because she doesn't let Americans win games. Then she started feeding mid and jungle kills (literally walking into Noc's jungle and waiting at his camps for him to kill her), and asking Ori and Noc to build Mejai's/SotO so she could feed them more, all while ranting about not letting Americans win games.

I've literally never seen anything like this before. Usually when I get trolled, it's because people are petty about losing their roles or whatever. I've never seen anything this inexplicable. I'm even having trouble believing that game even existed, and wasn't a figment of my imagination or something. Do people like that even exist?

Like I even needed to be more pessimistic about ever getting into Gold.

This is really only to the last part of that, but yes people like that do exist. At least in my experience. In several parts of the States, you can run across people who will try to convince you that country is evil and if you disagree, it can get really ugly. I've also run into people like that in the eastern block of EU when I was over there off and on. A lot of places have people that really hate my country.

[thracian]

Don't even get me started on how Canadians view Americans...

[mrcarter11]

Don't even get me started on how Canadians view Americans...

Oddly I've never had issues in Canada with people know I was American.

[Antonok]

It happens. World events can cause negative views towards certain countries. See WW2 and how America/Britain/France of that generation viewed Germany and Japan. Best to ignore it and move on. They'll find something else to complain about eventually.

[thracian]

Oddly I've never had issues in Canada with people know I was American.

I have also never had issues with Canadian/American relations. I just didn't really want to talk about it, as there isn't really much to say.

[Farix]

No, no, no. You want AP Lumberjack Sion.

Much better, Yasuo was a throw in cause I couldn't think of anything better. In my defense who ever thinks about Sion?

[Dusk Eclipse]

Obviously Don Juilio Anejo thinks of Sion

[Ashen Lilies]

I'm pretty sure that the Lissandra wasn't a legit anti-American person. They were just using it as an excuse to be a ****. Whatever. I hope they get banned, and that's that.

Edit: Looking at their match history, the only conclusion I can come up with is account theft, or someone realizing a deep addiction to League, and trying to force Riot to stage an intervention.

[Winthur]

I'm pretty sure that the Lissandra was a legit anti-American person. They were just using it as an excuse to be a ****. Whatever. I hope they get freedom, and that's that.

Fixed. Thank you for Burger King. Nom nom.

[Hullabaloo]

Found myself some free time today and was wondering if anyone wanted to duo with me as an ADC to make suggestions on my Leona. I'm horrible with her. My poor timed aggression typically puts me behind mid game becoming underleveled or too squishy to make an impact beyond my first round of cool downs in team fights. I'm putzing around the house so could play pretty much anytime today.

Build I typically Targon, although have been re thinking that and going with coin some. (My gold has been seeming to work out better by 20 min with coin).

Green sightstone >ninja>Tailsman>locket> then typically a Rand or BV. Maxing R>W>Q>E. Although I dont make Q second, but typically have it a rank above E

[Winthur]

I'm a horrible ADC and I don't even play on NA anymore (not used to 200 ping anymore), but here's what I'd say:

My poor timed aggression typically puts me behind mid game becoming underleveled or too squishy to make an impact beyond my first round of cool downs in team fights.

You have to look for proper timings. Early on with Leona you have two options:
1: Tell your AD carry to push as hard as possible and get level 2 before your enemy.
This approach does give you a lot of pressure and is very common, especially with Relic Shield, but it has a few downsides:
-The lane will be slightly pushed to the enemy turret once you do hit level 2, so depending on the creep position you might be too close to the turret for a comfortable EQ engagement
-Despite your pushing ways you might still be outraced to level 2 and then your advantage fizzles out
-Some supports are ranged and better at poking you out of lane. Even lowly Sona who normally melts to your combos will be able to Q you free of charge.
-You won't have your W if you do all-in, so you lose out on a damage source and some tankiness.
If you do manage to pull it off, you will be level 2 before your enemy will and that gives you a stronger straight up engage because you have a skill on your enemy. Level up E (or Q, whichever you started with) and go to town. You might be able to get a kill or force a summoner.

2: Stay passive.
This way you definitely won't be level 2 before your enemy, but the lane will be pushed to your turret and you will sooner or later reach level 3 - which is your most important timing - and you'll have plenty of pressure and kill potential, and the enemy will be far from the safety of their turret. Plus you'll probably receive less poke.

Your most important timings are at level 3 (you unlocked all your skills), level 5 (level 3 W), level 6 (if you have 6 before enemy, it's all-in time - but make sure you're not going to get into a bad 2v3). In general, try to abuse being a level up on your enemies as much as possible.

Things to consider while engaging:

• How many minions are there?
  Fighting in the middle of enemy minions in the laning phase is never a good idea. Those minions individually might not hurt, but their damage piles up. If someone walks into your creep line to harass, punish him!
• Who has summoners/ultimates?
  Straightforward. Gun down the adversary who just blew his Flash. Don't go in if enemy has summoners and you don't, unless specific circumstances. Hard engaging a Morgana who can just Black Shield your engage and then turn it around on you with Soul Shackles is a bad idea.
• Who do I focus?
  It might be very tempting to all-in the squishy Sona. Well, they say "it's the quiet ones you gotta watch", but while you're focusing the quiet Sona, she can just Heal (especially in current meta) or Flash while the loud Draven will murder you. On the other hand, if that support is overextended, a Zenith Blade for a Flash is a worthy trade.
• Who am I against?
  Janna is deceptively squishy, but a well-timed tornado will break your Zenith Blade initiation and leave you exposed to retaliation. Perhaps you should Flash onto her instead, so she has no time to prep a tornado? Or maybe she is stupid and uses tornado to push lane? A Karma will easily fall prey to your blade, but until level 3 you have no way to reach her, so don't get poked. Every Leona dreads a Black Shield, but if a Morgana uses it foolishly, punish the laner without the Shield at your leisure.
• Is my AD carry ready?
  Sometimes you have a manatee in lane, but make sure to be as communicative as possible. Make liberal use of pings, call out summoner timers (it really pays to learn them!) and make sure you're not engaging while he's at the turret collecting last hits.

Build I typically Targon, although have been re thinking that and going with coin some. (My gold has been seeming to work out better by 20 min with coin).

The Relic Shield line gives you way, way more pressure in the laning phase, and Leona thrives off of it. Relic Shield is such a good item, with health and health regen, Coin in comparison gives you pretty much nothing. Face of the Mountain is a very strong item as well. However, no one can deny the universal power of the Talisman of Ascension. I, for one, always start Relic, upgrade to Targon, and if I find that we need more chasing/engaging/disengaging power, I just sell my Targon's Brace in favor of a Nomad's Medallion. If you're sure you don't want Relic - and I'm not sure why, it has some pretty good sustain for one - you can go Doran's Shield + 2 pots (or cookies!) and get a Coin after your Sightstone. But I'd honestly say Relic outstrips Coin in the lane.

Green sightstone >ninja>Tailsman>locket> then typically a Rand or BV.

This is an okay build, though I'd say Locket is situational and that you should consider Mikael's Crucible. All builds are situational, sometimes you want an early Randuin, sometimes you want Locket against AoE damage, sometimes you just want Vampiric Scepter on Alistar.

Maxing R>W>Q>E. Although I dont make Q second, but typically have it a rank above

I prefer E over Q, but it's really up to playstyle/situation. This is a proper maxing order. Q-max is better for peeling, E will let you be more sticky.

too squishy to make an impact beyond my first round of cool downs in team fights

A thing to understand about most supports is that you're very often going to do very little beyond your first or second cooldown rotation, unless you're way ahead. Teamfights can get very short. Late game, with %penetration items abound and maybe even %health effects in the air, even a supertanky Leona has problems surviving. Your most important job in teamfights is to cast a good ultimate. Then you have to choose whether you're going to peel for ADC or whether you go balls deep - and the first option is more preferrable if you're behind. Going balls deep when you're behind might be okay - a 0/7/3 Leona's life isn't worth a lot, and you just might be able to stunlock the 8/0/1 Ziggs for long enough for your team to finish him off. It depends.

Hope this helps, though it's likely the most generic advice you've ever received.

[PersonMan]

Found myself some free time today and was wondering if anyone wanted to duo with me as an ADC to make suggestions on my Leona.

Winthur's tips are good. Here are some of my own:

• Learn to combo with her Q. Autoattack, then Q and then right click them immediately afterwards. You will attack three times, delivering very high burst damage at low levels.
• Talk to your ADC in champ select or before laning begins about how you're going to play the lane. An ADC who wants to farmfarmfarm can work with Leona, but your job will mainly be to say "lol, no, eat damage" to the enemy ADC if they try to trade with yours rather than jumping them whenever you can.
• I'd recommend having two runepages for Leona - one for a more passive ADC, focused on Armor, MR and with Gold/10 quints, then one for a more aggressive lane. This page (well, mine at least) has 15 bonus AD specifically to take advantage of Leona's AAQAA combo. At level 2, this will give you a pre-reduction burst of 328. Even reduced by about 30%, that's still over two hundred damage, which will hit within a window of about a second if you combo properly. Even afterwards, your autoattacks (you'll have 76 AD with 15 flat from runes) will make you a credible damage threat and can contribute significant damage to a fight even once you get away from the first few levels.
• Itemize towards armor unless you're forced not to. Leona's W gives armor based on your armor, which means if you build lots of armor you can become immune to towers when it's up. This is a good thing - diving people, getting assists then emerging having taken 300 damage from six towers shots is a good thing (and also fun). Your current build has a lot of MR in it.
• Upgrade to Targon's Embrace and get a Sightstone before buying boots, in my experience you don't really need them enough to justify taking them over those two items.

My general build:

(Order is 1, then 2, then 3, etc. with things behind the | being "upgrade/switch later, when it seems like a good time".)

1. Relic Shield -> Targon's Embrase | -> Talisman of Ascension
2. Ruby Crystal -> Wardrock Sightstone
3. Boots of Speed -> Boots of Mobility | -> Distortion Enchantment**
4. IF 'owning lane so hard' = yes, then Sheen -> Iceborn Gauntlet
otherwise
Giant's Belt -> Chain Vest -> Sunfire Cape
5. IF 'enemy magic damage not a problem'* = yes, then Chain Vest -> Randuin's Omen
otherwise
Negatron Cloak -> Ruby Crystal -> Aegis of the Legion
6. IF you have Iceborn Gauntlet, then Giant's Belt -> Sunfire Cape
otherwise
IF you have Aegis of the Legion, then Randuin's Omen
otherwise
Check if they have magic damage -> if yes, Aegis of the Legion, if no -> Frozen Heart (if they have several AA-based champions) or Iceborn Gauntlet

In general, it's best to get tanky with the HP from Sightstone/Embrace early, 'cause your W resists are amazing and make HP awesome, but if I'm crazy ahead I sometimes get a Sheen for even more ridiculous burst damage and turn it into Iceborn Gauntlet after finishing Embrace/Sightstone.


*Either they are very AD-heavy, or have one main source of magic damage that either doesn't target you much or is easily dealt with (via CCing and killing), or their main sources of magic damage are significantly behind.
**Grab this when you're feeling sufficiently tanky and it's late enough in the game (i.e. after laning) that it's time to make Flash-Ult or Flash-E plays.

EDIT: Well, this got long.

Regarding skill order:

I prefer Q -> E -> W; R>W>E>Q.

It allows for a level 2 all-in, or a level 2 burst'n'run combo, or a level 2 stop-hitting-my-ADC, or...

Ok, basically, get your E at level 2 because otherwise it's hard to meaningfully contribute to lane.

[Winthur]

[*]I'd recommend having two runepages for Leona - one for a more passive ADC, focused on Armor, MR and with Gold/10 quints, then one for a more aggressive lane. This page (well, mine at least) has 15 bonus AD specifically to take advantage of Leona's AAQAA combo. At level 2, this will give you a pre-reduction burst of 328. Even reduced by about 30%, that's still over two hundred damage, which will hit within a window of about a second if you combo properly. Even afterwards, your autoattacks (you'll have 76 AD with 15 flat from runes) will make you a credible damage threat and can contribute significant damage to a fight even once you get away from the first few levels.

While I applaud the idea of Batman-like preparations, I don't think that at this point in time there's any point to have runepages with Gold/10. You gain a good income with new support items and you no longer have to spam wards - Gold/10 are obsolete. Even if your AD carry is more passive, you can still use better quints, like HP ones or even HP regen ones (against pesky pokers who will be annoying to you until you unlock your full . You can make due with a general purpose runepage on Leona - a 15 AD + armor/hp + mr one is fine. I run AD reds, health yellows, magic resist blues and armor marks for a balance of tankiness and some bonus damage. Armor marks are also a good option since they're nowadays pretty much equal to armor seals and Leona doesn't necessarily need an offensive stat on her reds.

[*]Itemize towards armor unless you're forced not to. Leona's W gives armor based on your armor, which means if you build lots of armor you can become immune to towers when it's up. This is a good thing - diving people, getting assists then emerging having taken 300 damage from six towers shots is a good thing (and also fun). Your current build has a lot of MR in it.

I'd say itemize utility first and foremost. Armor is a nice bonus, but I wouldn't rely on it that heavily. Also there's the thing about having to adapt to every game.

[*]Upgrade to Targon's Embrace and get a Sightstone before buying boots, in my experience you don't really need them enough to justify taking them over those two items.

I agree.

My general build:

I'm just going to say that my boot choice (Tabi/Mobi/Mercs) depends on game-to-game basis (Tabi are better if the laning phase stays long, Mobi better for roaming, Mercs if I need MR + maybe want to withstand Morg binds or something). I wouldn't go Sunfire Cape - it's a decent item for its cost and stuff, but it doesn't give you a lot except damage, and you're not really there to deal damage in teamfights (and you're not going to get a Sunfire in the laning phase) nor do you need the waveclear. Randuin's way more helpful and makes you tankier.

I'm also not a fan of Iceborn Gauntlet/Sheen line, you've enough lockdown as it is, you don't really need the mana, and FH is a better CDR item.

I'd also consider Banshee's over Aegis if your problem is being bursted or poked by pesky Nidalees, rather than huge enemy AoE damage.

Skill order is fine.

[PersonMan]

I'm also not a fan of Iceborn Gauntlet/Sheen line, you've enough lockdown as it is, you don't really need the mana, and FH is a better CDR item.

I will admit, it's less for the lockdown as it is for the additional burst when you buy Sheen. It's, as aetherox (was it him? I'm not sure) would say, "win more".

I'd also consider Banshee's over Aegis if your problem is being bursted or poked by pesky Nidalees, rather than huge enemy AoE damage.

True, although on the other hand the team-wide (or at least AoE) MR and HP regen is nice for helping with poke if you're not the only victim.

[Qwertystop]

Um. With the new runes, what's good now?

[NineThePuma]

Um. With the new runes, what's good now?

Armor Seals are less good; I'd replace them with Scaling Armor on most pages that ran flat armor seals before. They break even at level 6, and while ~8 armor or so might make or break some lanes, those lanes are just as easily won with a cloth vest, imo.

Scaling Magic Resist breaks even slightly faster, I want to say at level 8. So those are now better if you're not facing early magic damage.

A.Spd Quints are now stronger, but you don't really want to run those on anyone except MAYBE aspd scaling auto-attack oriented junglers who don't benefit more from the (weaker now) Life Steal Quints: everyone who used to run life steal probably switched back to AD unless they were Nasus.

(This is advice from someone in silver and may not be a thorough analysis)

[Fjolnir]

You missed the stupid option of running smite as support and cashing in double golems or wraiths depending on your side on the way to lane

[Siosilvar]

-runes-

For all-in physical effective health:
Flat health > flat armor pre-6. Scaling health > flat health from 7 and up. Scaling armor > scaling health from ~11-14 and up or if you have good shields/heals. Flat armor is the middle ground between all of them now, not as bad as scaling stuff pre-6 and not as bad as flat health in late game.

Armor is still good if you have strong sustain, shields, or burst heals.

Do note that 3 armor quints is still 13 armor. If I'm running a heavy tank rune page (rare, unless I'm supporting) I take flat health yellows and armor quints.

Attack speed is still better on reds than quints. However, AS quints are better than AD quints and much better than ArPen quints.

Scaling MR is almost strictly superior to flat MR unless you're facing a scary pre-6 magic damage threat (Shen and Shyvana, maybe a few others).

I hear people run a single lifesteal quint now. Health regen quints may be better than lifesteal? I haven't done the math.

[ex cathedra]

Armor Seals are less good; I'd replace them with Scaling Armor on most pages that ran flat armor seals before. They break even at level 6, and while ~8 armor or so might make or break some lanes, those lanes are just as easily won with a cloth vest, imo.

AD carries and supports probably shouldn't be starting with cloth armor

A.Spd Quints are now stronger, but you don't really want to run those on anyone except MAYBE aspd scaling auto-attack oriented junglers who don't benefit more from the (weaker now) Life Steal Quints: everyone who used to run life steal probably switched back to AD unless they were Nasus.

attack speed quints are very effective on caitlyn & friends who rely on it for early laning. i've also been enjoying them on irelia but lots of quints work for her.

[sonofzeal]

When I set up my first runepage, I wanted something that'd be generically useful for everyone, but a lot has changed since then and I'd like some advice.


Marks - I started flat AD, but have since bought some Hybrid Pen
Seals - I started flat Armor, but with the recent nerf I got some flat/scaling health.
Glyphs - Flat MR
Quints - Movespeed.


What should be my next purchases, assuming I want to be able to stick with having one or two generic runepages that any champion can use?

[Godskook]

When I set up my first runepage, I wanted something that'd be generically useful for everyone, but a lot has changed since then and I'd like some advice.


Marks - I started flat AD, but have since bought some Hybrid Pen
Seals - I started flat Armor, but with the recent nerf I got some flat/scaling health.
Glyphs - Flat MR
Quints - Movespeed.


What should be my next purchases, assuming I want to be able to stick with having one or two generic runepages that any champion can use?

AD/Armor/MR/MS is probably the most generic+potent rune page you can get, tbh, with a few possible quint replacements, such as HP. There's lot you can get to improve your options, but I think its all going to wind up being "more niche" than what you've got so far. Transitioning to a role or position rune book(3-7 pages) would be the next step.

[Winthur]

Armor Seals are less good; I'd replace them with Scaling Armor on most pages that ran flat armor seals before. They break even at level 6, and while ~8 armor or so might make or break some lanes, those lanes are just as easily won with a cloth vest, imo.

Flat health seals all the way, friend of African-American persuasion. Especially if you have Armor quints, you will get, rune-wise the same armor you had before the patch AND more health if you ran Armor seals+Health quints combo. Yeah, it doesn't make damn sense and forcing people to spend a ton of IP on new, optimal runes is a load of crap.

A.Spd Quints are now stronger, but you don't really want to run those on anyone except MAYBE aspd scaling auto-attack oriented junglers who don't benefit more from the (weaker now) Life Steal Quints: everyone who used to run life steal probably switched back to AD unless they were Nasus.

(This is advice from someone in silver and may not be a thorough analysis)

Attack Speed is good because you get a more responsive autoattack that you can cast more often, and on-hit is how you receive health back from Doran's Blade which you should start with anyway. Though it depends. About the only carries I'd still consider lifesteal runes on are those ones whose laning phase is abysmal.
I guess you can still run 3x AD quints but 1xAD 2xASpeed is fancier and plays a little smoother.