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2014-04-09, 01:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2010
Re: Creating a character for the world's pickiest DM
Imagine if all real-world conversations were like internet D&D conversations...
Protip: DnD is an incredibly social game played by some of the most socially inept people on the planet - Lev
I read this somewhere and I stick to it: "I would rather play a bad system with my friends than a great system with nobody". - Trevlac
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2014-04-09, 02:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2013
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Re: Creating a character for the world's pickiest DM
Yes to both parts.
Note that Vox has expressed his strong love of low-fantasy over high-fantasy, as well as a preference toward the common European standards, rather than Monks and ToB.
OP's setting isn't so much low-magic as it is "Magic PC restricted", by the sounds of it. It's a very obvious case of bad DMing, as he's doing a "I can use it, but you can't" system.Currently Playing:
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2014-04-09, 03:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2013
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- Western Spiral Arm
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2014-04-09, 03:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2010
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- London, EU
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Re: Creating a character for the world's pickiest DM
It sounds like he nerfed Rogue and Scout so these are out.
If you were to play an Uber Charger then I suspect that this would be nerfed also.
I could suggest a Diplomancer, but I suspect that this would get nerfed too — but who knows ?
A lock down Knight is an option as are a Trip Fighter or a fear build.
My worry is that anything we suggest will be retroactively nerfed.
Maybe you could game the DM by playing a Drow, you might find him more permissive ? Although I suspect that you would have to play a Drow in the way he would play one.π = 4
Consider a 5' radius blast: this affects 4 squares which have a circumference of 40' — Actually it's worse than that.
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2014-04-09, 04:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
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- The Netherlands
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Re: Creating a character for the world's pickiest DM
I have to be honest: the behaviour this group is showing doesn't seem like "celebrating a long-standing friendship with playing a game before we part ways." It reads more like "riding it out until we can split".
If you, as a group of friends, can't tell one of its members, someone who you like and who you get along with in most aspects of your lives, something like: 'your GMing isn't much fun for us, here are some tips', or 'I'd be willing to take over', then you guys maybe aren't as close as you think you are.
I would advice SPEAKING ABOUT IT. Anything you will play in-game will get nerfed, you won't have fun, and your last memory of this group before it splits will be one of annoyance and disappointment.
As for actual in-game advice (against my better judgement): play a skill-monkey. DMs like this love skill-monkeys with skills the party "needs" in order for the DM to tell their story like knowledges, track etcetera.Last edited by Ceaon; 2014-04-09 at 04:47 AM.
"One need not hope in order to undertake, nor succeed in order to persevere."
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2014-04-09, 05:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2014
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Re: Creating a character for the world's pickiest DM
As soon as I read the rant I suspected something like this would happen no matter what the OP tries to do.
I take it you have to buy your potions, since potion brewing requires MAGIC, and none of you have any magic. Speaking of which, I'm surprised he even allowed potions, which are technically spells in bottles. Does he allow oils as well?
How does he handle DR Magic, and DR that requires special materials? Does he remove those DRs, does he allow use of +1 and special material weapons, or does he go "OOOOOOOOOO, so OP. Just deal more damage and you'll beat it," as his female drow cleric in tight leather armor stacks heal after heal on the bad guys?
Sorry, this type of DM pisses me off the most.
Anyway, I'd just make a drow ranger with "Favored Enemy Undead" until he bans Favored Enemy for being to OP. If he DOES by some miracle allow ToB, play a Warblade. Swordsage is too Eastern-flavored, and Crusader not only has its inherent "How do I run this randomness system" problems, but the way they get maneuvers is suspiciously like the way divine casters get spells, which is going to raise "Over Powered, Over Powered" alarmbells in his head. Never use any maneuver or stance above 3rd level. even if you DO deal over 100 damage, he'll just ret-con the damage away, and strip you of all your gear until you are a fighter without bonus feats.I am a Curio Munchkin. No ordinary Chargebarians or Dragonwrought Kobolds for me. It's gotta be a specially bred Thri-kreen supersoldier that escaped the torturous experiments with nothing but luck and two awesome templates!
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2014-04-09, 05:27 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2012
- Location
- The Universe.
Re: Creating a character for the world's pickiest DM
In D&D, be DM has exactly ONE job: make the players have fun. The DM's job is not to control the plot. The is allowed to lay the framework of a plot, but not to put anything on tht frame.
Dungeons & Dragons is a collaborative storyweaving game. If you want to write a story by yourself, write a book.
And if our DM does things like makin Tumble not work, tell them that they've gone a step too far. Sure, ou can need things, but don't take away one of the key elements of rogue-style combat.
Make a chracter who can get to and cris tht necromancer in one blow. When the DM says part of your build doesn't work, remind him that there are limits, even to rule 0. It's cruel to strip a fighter of his ability to fight while he's in a fight. Argue, until you can get to this: you can playa caster, but you won't break it
Then play a buff-based cleric, or something similar. Don't break the game, but don't let him break it either.Jon Snow and Ghost avatar (not currently in use) by Gurgleflep 15370262 328.
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2014-04-09, 05:32 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2013
Re: Creating a character for the world's pickiest DM
Make a 1st-level commoner with the "Chicken-Infested" flaw from dragon Magazine. Play for comic relief. Have him be named Dennis (he's a professional Hedgerower!). He's got a severe case of ailuriphobia (fear of cats). At each level you get a feat, put things like "Toughness" and "Diehard" and "Dodge" on him - Dennis doesn't get BETTER at anything, but he does become damn near impossible to kill. Dennis is with the group because none of them can cook, and thanks to a correspondence course, he can turn darn near any dead monster into a satisfying meal (it always tastes like chicken.) At lest that's his story. Dennis the Hedger is actually just trying to escape his wife. Pester your GM to make his wife a minor villain for the entire party. She's also a level 1 chicken-infested commoner. Dennis insists that she's quite the ogre... but if anything she's only 1/4th orc.
Seriously, try it.
As for advice with your DM, here's a few points.
- Ignore the people telling you to ditch. These people are giving you bad advice. You're playing with RL friends, not some group you met on roll20 or something. The dynamic is totally different. The game might be bad, but the people themselves aren't being toxic from what I understand.
- Don't issue ultimatums. No "This changes or I leave!" statements. This puts the DM on the defensive, having to choose between his friend and his creation - either direction he goes will bring resentment. This also puts the rest of the group on the defensive, feeling compelled to "take a side."
- along similar lines, don't try to "speak for everyone." You're not everyone. They have their own thoughts and opinions, and even if they agree in general, they might have different perspectives or approaches than you.
- Also, don't get the other players behind the GM's back and try to rally support. Keep everything open with the whole group. Nothing is more corrosive than the feeling that the other people at the table are plotting against you.
- Be plain about your desire from the game. Say what you want, and what you're looking for. "I was hoping for more of a high-fantasy setting," or whatever. Simply make your preferences known.
- Failing that, offer to DM sometime. Different world, different characters, so as you're not stepping on the regular DM's toes... but basically, putting your money where your mouth is. Your DM might enjoy playing in what you run and might loosen up his own stuff a bit.
- Finally... be prepared to just roll with it. Maybe the DM just has some specific things he wants to do. Maybe he really doesn't understand the game. At the end of the day, it's you and your friends hanging out before you all split. Some lame sessions of D&D are pretty unimportant,all told.
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2014-04-09, 05:48 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
Re: Creating a character for the world's pickiest DM
I can think of no compelling reason why your friendship with the Players in this group, including the DM, should require you to continue to play in a game that is, by all indications, not fun for you. This seems doubly true if the other Players are also discontented with the DM's style of game.
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2014-04-09, 05:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2013
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- near Milan / Italy
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Re: Creating a character for the world's pickiest DM
This. Try to be patient, since you will soon split, just hold out and try to hev fun with what you have.
Personally i hate living a group for "game issues" when people are great. I just try to fit the style of the DM or i find my way around and do something that give me fun.
Roleplay is about playing with imagination, and if you have enough imagination you can never stop having fun.
And more, as a DM i had my experience of players leaving for gaming issues, and it was unpleasant. I didn't get offended, but i couldn't stop to ask myself what went wrong, expecially because the leaving players told me they "didn't want to play any more", but years later dropped on me that they left because of one player that started optimizing and of my choice on adding BoED to the list of allowed books, and they thought it was breaking the game.Awards and prices
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2014-04-09, 06:16 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
Re: Creating a character for the world's pickiest DM
Have you considered saying "We've been enjoying the campaign we've had for the past few months, and we don't feel we have enough time to get anywhere if we try to start a new one."
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2014-04-09, 06:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2005
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- Newfoundland
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Re: Creating a character for the world's pickiest DM
Play a factotum with no SLAs.
You don't need to convince him, you only need to convince the other members of your group. Why are you allowing him so much control that he has to "let" you DM? You can't force him not to DM, but you can decide to DM your own game, invite him to play, and run the game the way you want.
Originally Posted by Mopeds42
You aren't having fun. The rest of the group isn't having fun. There is an adage that "no gaming is better than bad gaming," and you are having bad gaming.
My advice is to be honest without being rude. Don't force him out as DM, but you need to tell him why the game isn't fun (restrictions, arbitrary rule changes mid-encounter, railroading), with examples. Don't gang up on him, but have the group's support (ie, talk about it beforehand and elect a spokesman).
Originally Posted by VoxRationisLast edited by prufock; 2014-04-09 at 06:53 AM.
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2014-04-09, 07:30 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2006
- Location
Re: Creating a character for the world's pickiest DM
If your fellow players prefer your running style, talk to them about it. Talk them into saying, "We really like this campaign and where it's going, and want to keep playing it for the rest of the year."
If the only think keeping them going back to this guy's game is his insistence that they get back to his game and a fear that they'll offend him, they're basically allowing him to bully them. Put it in exactly those terms. If anybody - and hopefully somebody will - objects that he doesn't mean to bully anybody - then tell them that you shouldn't treat him like a bully by kowtowing to him.
If he's a friend, then once you've talked to the others, sit down with him, along with the others, and try to explain to him that it's not that you don't like him, but that you guys just aren't enjoying his campaign.
Less gentle, perhaps, but you could also point him to this forum. Start a DMing help thread or something (or encourage him to do so), and ask us to be gentle but firm as we try to help him see what D&D is best used for and why and how.
Regarding your plays-only-fighters-and-is-upset-they're-weak player, have you tried suggesting to him Tome of Battle, or a Duskblade? When you DM, you can help fighters out by giving them disproportionate gear for their "appropriate wealth-by-level." Give him cool weapons or armor, things that are not useful to the other more optimal characters but which give him options and capabilities to keep up with them.
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2014-04-09, 08:30 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2014
- Location
- Sovereign State of Denial
Re: Creating a character for the world's pickiest DM
I vote just complain to the DM. Don't threaten to walk out, don't stop playing, just let him know what he's doing wrong, hear him out, let him either change or just wait until you leave and just get a new group. He's your friend, so be diplomatic. No need to be hostile or vehement, just point your issues out.
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2014-04-09, 08:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2013
- Gender
Re: Creating a character for the world's pickiest DM
Here's an idea you potentially didn't consider: there are several methods, some of which are listed above, to use templates and the like to get magical abilities. Do that... And be a Drow.
Play it up so hard that your powers come inherently from your awesome Drow-ness, have her wear a kimono she doesn't tie up, draw him a picture emphasizing how moe and Drow your character is. He'll be cool with you being the exception to the magic rule. Talk to the other players about this first; they're likely to be okay with it as long as they know the next step of the plan.
Derail his campaign into the ground with any mixture of joining the bad guy, feeding his quest NPC's to the undead hordes, and doing any stupid thing you can think of to ensure a TPK when he least expects it. Up to and including stripping and walking into an enemy camp. Cast spells if they try to just capture you. Hell, there are suicide rules! He's going to get the message that his workings aren't generating fun for you, one way or another.~Sig~ The more I optimize in 3.5, the less I enjoy the game. Yet as hard as I try to avoid it, the optimizer mindset keeps slipping back into my thoughts. I will probably quit playing Dungeons and Dragons in the near future if I can't fix my predicament.
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2014-04-09, 09:00 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2012
Re: Creating a character for the world's pickiest DM
hell i figured, the macguffin in dungeon #1 will not even have any abilities till i would ask the players to submit secret notes asto what it does. (iif its legitimately overpowered for that level, it will be magicall deactivated, or the questgiver will just take it and be evul with it)
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2014-04-09, 10:01 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2005
- Location
- NJ
- Gender
Re: Creating a character for the world's pickiest DM
Halfling Fighter taking feats that augment your throwing. Races of Eberron has lots of feats for boosting your throwing skills.
stock up on tanglefoot bags, acid, alchemist fire, thunderstones, contact poisons, and inhaled poisons (memorize the page and line that says holding your breath doesn't help with inhaled poisons)
take proficiency in nets and bolas
basically all anti-wizard tactics.
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2014-04-09, 10:10 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2012
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2014-04-09, 10:26 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2014
Re: Creating a character for the world's pickiest DM
I did not see the OP's later post about removing class features mid-encounter. You're right. That's very unfair.
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2014-04-09, 10:51 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2005
- Location
- Toronto, City of Spires
Re: Creating a character for the world's pickiest DM
I am going on the assumption that you have resigned yourself to this tactic, that bearing with the annoyances for the last few months is preferable to either (a) making a big scene or (b) not gaming at all.
In my experience, DMs and players alike tend to overlook the softer forms of combat, like battlefield control and debuffing enemies, while assuming any ability that deals hefty amounts of damage is OMG SO BROKEN. Your options are sharply limited without magic, but not entirely so.
Fighters are pretty much kings of the reach trip and AoO build. That can be a powerful contribution to a battle, keeping enemies out of your (and your allies') faces, dishing out damage on the enemies' turns, and frustrating the enemies' offensive attempts. Being rendered prone in the middle of a charge means your attack and damage values are meaningless for that charge attempt. A Knight similarly has that nice ability to force enemies to attack you, rather than your allies, IIRC.
Of course, the best choice for you would be based on your play style. What do you find fun in a regular game, and how can you realize that in this game with all its limitations? If you love being the Damage Guy (TM) then try a TWF Rogue, or a Fighter or Barbarian with a horse and a lance, or something similar. There's only one trick to a build like that, and it's part of the game's oldest Core rules sets. "This is how Sneak Attack works." "This is what a Mounted Charge does."That is not dead which can eternal lie
And with strange aeons even death may die.
Expand for quotes.
Abd's contribution to the Animate/End A World project.
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2014-04-09, 11:18 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2013
Re: Creating a character for the world's pickiest DM
I just threw this level 10 Fighter together quickly, using feats only from PHB, PHB2 & the Complete series (in case this DM is picky about manuals):
Human Fighter 10
Feat selection
1st: Weapon Focus (Flail, heavy)
Human Bonus: Power Attack
Fighter 1st: Improved Bullrush
Fighter 2nd: Improved Sunder
3rd: Leap Attack [Complete Adventurer]
Fighter 4th: Weapon Specialization (Flail, heavy)
6th: Shock Trooper [Complete Warrior]
Fighter 6th: Combat Brute [Complete Warrior]
Fighter 8th: Improved Critical
9th: Melee Weapon Mastery (Bludgeoning) [Player's Handbook 2]
Fighter 10th: Brutal Strike [Player's Handbook 2]
This build will allow you to maximize the effectiveness of Power Attack through charging, as well as increasing the effectiveness of your flail. Putting that together will make a character whos good when not charging, but better when is. Hold out for level 6 and I promise you wont be disappointed.
As for equipment, being you're building as a level 5 you're entitled to 9000 gold. Thats enough to buy you a +1 Heavy Flail with a cool enchantment worth +1 (Flaming, Frost, Thundering are always good. Vicious if you're willing to take 1d6 damage every attack). This leaves you shy a few hundred or so gold of Rhino Hide however. This armor may be worth not picking up an enchantment, as its a +2 armor that gives 2d6 on a charge. More damage is always good for you.
Stats wise, prioritize your STR and CON. Due to Shock Trooper, you'll be running around with low AC at times so trying to have high DEX becomes redundant. However, that doesn't mean a little initiative bonus isn't helpful.
At 10th level, if you charge, you'll be doing this kind of damage (excluding STR bonus):
d10+1 from +1 Flail (whatever enchantment you picked, or +2d6 if you have Rhino Hide)
+20 from Power Attack (Using Shock Trooper, -6 to your AC)
+40 if you used Leap Attack as well (triple Power Attack, since two-handed weapon)+2 from Weapon Specialization
+2 from Melee Weapon Mastery
Finally, give them a Fort safe vs DC 20 or they're sickened (-2 penalty on all attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks) for the round. (Unsure if you can Brutal Strike on a charge.)
This totals to: d10+65+1d6/2d6+STR damage at best. Lets see your DM's face when a level 6 character does that.
Next round? Your Power Attack (though the - goes to atk now) is tripled (this over-writes the double for using a two-handed weapon). I'm unsure if this would stack with Leap Attack if you were to charge again, but if it did you'd be looking at d10+95+1d6/2d6+STR damage!
And if you're wondering, at base you'll be doing d10+5+STR damage. I think thats probably standard. But don't forget, you'll now be able to crit on a 17-20, which will do even more damage!
(Somebody PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong on any of that information, so I can change it)
Hope this build helps And be sure to let him look at the character sheet. Looking doesn't mean you have to tell him about itLast edited by LentilNinja; 2014-04-09 at 11:51 AM.
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2014-04-09, 11:46 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2013
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- NW USA
- Gender
Re: Creating a character for the world's pickiest DM
0 LA Drow Fighter, Stand Still and Mage Slayer + Support; plan on standing next to the Necromancer and ruining his day. In my experience with 'low magic' campaigns, the end result is usually 'someone with magic will destroy your magic-less party'; so plan accordingly.
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2014-04-09, 11:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2011
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- Montréal, Québec
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Re: Creating a character for the world's pickiest DM
If I'm a monk using lettuce as an Improvised Thrown Weapon, does that make me a salad-tosser ???Les Goblins Toxiques : A geek blog (in French) where I write about RPG, M:TG and such. Also has a podcast / radio show.RIP 2012 We had a great run but RL caught up with us!
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2014-04-09, 12:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2010
Re: Creating a character for the world's pickiest DM
I have two points:
First, if you like DMing - have you thought about splitting the sessions between the two of you? In other words, one week you play in his campaign, the next yours.
Second, uber-controlling DMs like this are basically trying to write a book. Essentially you are superfluous:
Dieing is hard to doHe also nerfs things arbitrarily, especially when a fight doesn't go his way.He railroads like crazy because he designs adventures with only one possible solution in mind. Thus, if we don't play exactly how he would play, then everything gets shut down.he is insisting we get back to his game78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.
Started at the home of one of the characters.
Check out my campaign at:
https://erramus.obsidianportal.com/
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2014-04-09, 12:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2013
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2014-04-09, 12:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2011
- Gender
Re: Creating a character for the world's pickiest DM
I second this! Other possibilities is to look at this thread: Rustly Jimmies
Then do everything in it during the game.Dascarletm, Spinner of Rudiplorked Tales, and Purveyor of PunsThanks to Artman77 for the avatar!
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2014-04-09, 01:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2013
Re: Creating a character for the world's pickiest DM
In general: When this forum advises you to be a jerk, don't.
Last edited by OldTrees1; 2014-04-09 at 01:10 PM.
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2014-04-09, 02:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2013
Re: Creating a character for the world's pickiest DM
Here are your options:
1. Leave the game.
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2014-04-09, 03:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2012
- Gender
Re: Creating a character for the world's pickiest DM
Ignore the haters.
You are looking at this the wrong way. You are on a railroad. You cannot win by following the tracks. You cannot win by going off the rails. You cannot win by going faster. There is only one choice. Slow Down.
Every DM that railroads has a story in his head. He wants you to play your part in his story. He has a script in his head and if you don't follow his script, he will make you follow the script. So, you have two choices:
1. Forget about it. Stop worrying about your character, make whatever pops into your head and just screw around. Becomes Oog the barbarian, or spatula Khan, lord of The Souffle'! have a pair of sharpened magic kitchen spatulas. Be a ranger Halfling who cooks food and makes claims to once have defeated the entire army of Demonic Arhabals with a buffet of Poached Flounder. Why? Because you can't lose. The DM just wants you to play your part and you can't play your part if you are dead.
2. Get the rest of the party to make up all new PCs. Remake everyone as the same Fighter who are all in the same unit and everyone has the exact same stats. You all do everything as a unit. You all run in the same direction. You all attack with the same weapon. You call use archery at the same time, and since you all move as a cube, the wounded cycle to the back, the fresh move to the front, and you all just operate as a machine. Stop he RP entirely. He wants you to play a part, so stop playing. Reduce the game to nothing more then dice rolling.
3. Become worthless. Be completely ineffective. Make the most useless character you can think of. Demonstrate for him what happens if you can't do anything. Let the NPCs win. Make him keep saving you over and over. When combat happens, make the dumbest moves. Be an archer without effective equipment like a short bow, or the ability to fire into melee, but shoot into melee anyways. Take feats like fortitude. He wants to hamstring you, take it to a new dimension of loser PC.
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2014-04-09, 03:26 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2010
Re: Creating a character for the world's pickiest DM
To give honest advice based on the OP's paramaters:
Given your situation, based on my experience with overbearing railroad DMs, knowledge skills are going to be your best friend. Take the education feat (doesn't matter which class, but I'd advise Ranger, then you have track as well) and just pump up knowledges. Then, whenever a situation arises, make a knowledge check and hopefully the DM will give you the answer he wants to complete the story in his head.
You can optimise this a little, like taking knowledge devotion, but it won't matter. If the DM wants you to succeed, you will, and if he doesn't, you won't. I'd probably just go the most vanilla route possible with the rest of your build; weapon focus, dodge, improved initiative. Don't spend a lot of time building the character or giving him a backstory; your part is already written, just not by you.I don't know about angels, but it's fear that gives men wings - Max Payne