Smash Brothers 4 General

[AtlanteanTroll]

Hmmm. Assuming Jigglypuff comes back, that'd be another character for Pokemon giving it a +2 lead over the number of Mario characters. Maybe we can predict another proper Mario character? (Remember that Yoshi counts towards his own series, as will Wario.)

[Zevox]

Hmmm. Assuming Jigglypuff comes back, that'd be another character for Pokemon giving it a +2 lead over the number of Mario characters. Maybe we can predict another proper Mario character? (Remember that Yoshi counts towards his own series, as will Wario.)

Methinks your math is off there. With Jigglypuff back there would be an even number of Mario and Pokèmon characters, at five each: Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, and Rosalina on Mario's side; Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Lucario, Charizard, and Greninja on Pokèmon's. Unless you're assuming the return of Squirtle and Ivysaur, which I wouldn't.

Besides which, Mario doesn't really have any other good choices for characters. Even Rosalina's kinda stretching it, being a new character whose role in her games was actually rather minor. Pokèmon at least has the excuse of having literally hundreds of equally good candidates to pick from.

[Mando Knight]

Even Rosalina's kinda stretching it, being a new character whose role in her games was actually rather minor.

And has been in all three Mario Karts since, and is an unlockable player in 3D World. Rosalina's apparently really popular, and makes roughly the same amount of sense as adding a lead character from a single less-popular game (such as Ice Climbers).

[OracleofWuffing]

I believe that Toad had a good following for adding to smash last time I checked, Princess Toadstool's B Button be darned. Though, Geno probably has a higher demand but that one's not gonna happen. I guess if I were forced to pick a new Mario character, Birdo comes to mind, and Bowser Junior but I'd hate myself for it. And Waluigi should go without saying, but he's already an assist trophy. Clearly he's too high of a tier to be a playable character.

But I don't think they section off the roster like that until after the characters are determined. Otherwise, we'd see some more WarioWare characters. Which wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, don't get me wrong...

[Hytheter]

How many additional characters do you think will make it into the game? I'm banking on at least four more newcomers and two more oldies, but that would only be 39 total which just makes it equal in roster size to Brawl...

I'm betting on a Roster of 45+, with 1-3 more newcomers and about 10 more returning veterans.

Veterans that may be cut in order of likeliness (imo): Squirtle, Ivysaur, Snake, Lucas, Wolf, Falco, ROB, Ice Climbers.
I'm almost certain on the first three. The last three I think will probably get in, but are more likely to get cut than others.

Certain returns: Ness, Jigglypuff, Captain Falcon - they've been around for three games, they ain't going anywhere.
Ganondorf and Meta Knight goddamn better be back or I'll be pissed.

Possible newcomers: Chrom (Fire Emblem Awakening), Shulk (Xenoblade), Chorus Men (Rhythm Heaven) - all three of these are based on a leaker that has so far correctly predicted every revealed newcomer except Rosalina. I could also see Robin (FE:A) and Dixie Kong. A lot of people have also thought Sceptile could appear to tie in to ORAS and complete the FWG starter trio, and Mewtwo still arguably has a case, but either starts to cause a bit of a Poke-saturation problem (though there were technically 7 Pokemon in Brawl, so maybe). Ridley would be awesome - and may be one of the most requested characters - but I doubt it, it looks like he's a stage hazard in the pyrosphere.

Beyond that I'm not sure. I was like 99% sure that Ike would be cut (but oh so pleased that he wasn't), and that Pacman was never getting in, so I'm no expert. Plus there have been some real oddballs so far so anything could happen...

[Zevox]

I believe that Toad had a good following for adding to smash last time I checked, Princess Toadstool's B Button be darned. Though, Geno probably has a higher demand but that one's not gonna happen. I guess if I were forced to pick a new Mario character, Birdo comes to mind, and Bowser Junior but I'd hate myself for it.

I've seen small groups of people requesting Toad and Geno, but honestly I'm not convinced it's anything more than a moderately vocal minority on message boards. Geno is pretty obscure, and I have a hard time wrapping my head around the idea of a lot of people thinking Toad would be a good character to add.

Bowser Junior is probably the most realistic next option in my mind, sadly. Though personally I think Mario was fine with just its core four. Once a series' mainstays are all in the game, I think adding anyone more from it ought to become a substantially lower priority, personally.

Veterans that may be cut in order of likeliness (imo): Squirtle, Ivysaur, Snake, Lucas, Wolf, Falco, ROB, Ice Climbers.
I'm almost certain on the first three. The last three I think will probably get in, but are more likely to get cut than others.

I am kind of curious about Snake myself. I could see him going either way, but the fact that he wasn't revealed at E3 seems to make him less likely, I think. I'd expect they would want to hype up any further third-party characters at a major event like that - and sure enough, we did get Pac-Man revealed there.

Certain returns: Ness, Jigglypuff, Captain Falcon - they've been around for three games, they ain't going anywhere.

Sadly so in Jigglypuff's case, I think. Even back when it was only the original games I always felt Pokèmon had better critters they could've used than her. Nowadays there's so many better options it's ridiculous. But yeah, I think everyone from the original game is basically going to stay forever at this point, as a tradition if nothing else.

I could also see Robin (FE:A) and Dixie Kong.

If Chrom gets in, I sincerely doubt the Avatar does. Which I'm half and half on: on the one hand, I hate his default look, which he'd likely be stuck with if he were added. On the other, I'd very much like to get a magic user from Fire Emblem one of these days, and we so rarely get a main character who uses magic in the series. Too bad we didn't get Micaiah in Brawl...

I'd also rather see K. Rool than Dixie if we were getting another DK character, personally. Or Cranky Kong, even, though that's just because I loved using him in Tropical Freeze.

and Mewtwo still arguably has a case.

I wish I could believe that, but if the leak is accurate, roster space is filling up awfully fast, and I doubt he'd get priority over newcomers or Brawl veterans, aside from maybe Ivysaur and Squirtle.

[Hytheter]

I'd also rather see K. Rool than Dixie if we were getting another DK character, personally. Or Cranky Kong, even, though that's just because I loved using him in Tropical Freeze.

As much I would love to see K.Rool, Nintendo seems to have cast him aside. I think the last game he was in was 6 years ago, in a goddamn Mario Sports title, and the games he was in before that were pretty forgettable. Dixie Kong at least was in a recent Donkey Kong title.
It's pretty tragic. DKCR was a fantastic game but the enemies seemed so lame compared to the classic Kremlings.

I kind of agree on Robin, but I think he/she would be a much better choice than Chrom. The addition of chrom makes three Blue Haired dudes with swords. And as if that's not absurdly specific enough, Chrom and Marth have the same sword.
Robin could represent the fact that FE actually does have non-sword characters. A wide range of magic grants plenty of possible attacks, and if they absolutely must do the sword thing he can do that too - hell, let's combine the two. Levin Sword anyone?
But yeah, they'll probably just put in bland old Chrom and call it a day.

[Zevox]

I kind of agree on Robin, but I think he/she would be a much better choice than Chrom. The addition of chrom makes three Blue Haired dudes with swords. And as if that's not absurdly specific enough, Chrom and Marth have the same sword.

Which is completely and utterly irrelevant. Hair color matters not in the slightest, and weapon choice does not make characters fight the same - we had six sword-wielders in Brawl, and the only two that were similar were the ones that were literally alternate versions of the same character. We've already added another in Smash 4, the swordfighter version of Miis, and if Shulk is actually in we'd be at eight even before Chrom. That's a non-issue.

Really, it's just a sheer coincidence that the three Fire Emblem main characters with the most prominent positions in the series' history all happen to have the same hair color and weapon of choice.

[Xondoure]

Which is completely and utterly irrelevant. Hair color matters not in the slightest, and weapon choice does not make characters fight the same - we had six sword-wielders in Brawl, and the only two that were similar were the ones that were literally alternate versions of the same character. We've already added another in Smash 4, the swordfighter version of Miis, and if Shulk is actually in we'd be at eight even before Chrom. That's a non-issue.

Really, it's just a sheer coincidence that the three Fire Emblem main characters with the most prominent positions in the series' history all happen to have the same hair color and weapon of choice.

If you think they don't consider these things when designing characters... I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree.

[Drascin]

Hm, so, interesting thing I'm hearing. Apparently, people who have played the game at the Best Buy demos are saying that Pit does not have a black alternate color scheme like he did in Brawl. Which is very curious, since that would make him look like Dark Pit, and should therefore be an obvious choice.

But put that together with the ending of Palutena's trailer, and it begs the question: could Dark Pit be a newcomer?

I honestly wouldn't have expected it, but that combination of facts does make it seem like a possibility. And honestly, I might even like it. He could use a variety of the weapons from Kid Icarus: Uprising, which would make for an awesome moveset that would be so different from Pit's that nobody could call him a clone.

If they want to make him a separate character with a different theme they could just surprise us all a bit and make it Dark Pit post-game - when he's more or less drafted into being Viridi's angel - which could be reason enough to give him some different powers. Viridi does even have a mocking line during the trailer.

[Mando Knight]

Really, it's just a sheer coincidence that the three Fire Emblem main characters with the most prominent positions in the series' history all happen to have the same hair color and weapon of choice.

I don't think it's coincidence. Of the Lord characters, only Ephraim, Hector, and Micaiah specialize in weapons that aren't swords. Eliwood, Roy, Leaf, Cellica, and Micaiah are the only ones without blue-tinted hair (Lyn, Eliwood, and Eirika have hair colors in the bluish green regions).

Unless you start counting all of the extra nobles (Elincia, the Laguz kings, the various nobles from Holy War, etc.), there's a clear bias towards swords for the main character, and a more moderate bias towards blue hair.

[Sith_Happens]

Unless you start counting all of the extra nobles (Elincia, the Laguz kings, the various nobles from Holy War, etc.), there's a clear bias towards swords for the main character, and a more moderate bias towards blue hair.

Gee, it's almost as if heroes prefer swords and you gotta have blue hair.

[TheSummoner]

As much I would love to see K.Rool, Nintendo seems to have cast him aside. I think the last game he was in was 6 years ago, in a goddamn Mario Sports title, and the games he was in before that were pretty forgettable. Dixie Kong at least was in a recent Donkey Kong title.
It's pretty tragic. DKCR was a fantastic game but the enemies seemed so lame compared to the classic Kremlings.

There are Kremlings in Smash 4. In the 3DS version's "Smash Run" mode, they appear along other Nintendo enemies... So maybe there's hope for K. Rool and the Kremlings returning at some point... Not necessarily in Smash Bros, but in general.

[Zevox]

I don't think it's coincidence. Of the Lord characters, only Ephraim, Hector, and Micaiah specialize in weapons that aren't swords. Eliwood, Roy, Leaf, Cellica, and Micaiah are the only ones without blue-tinted hair (Lyn, Eliwood, and Eirika have hair colors in the bluish green regions).

Admittedly, in retrospect the sword thing should have been obvious. Even when we get a Lord who uses something else, they're co-star to at least one other Lord who does use swords (Lyn and Eliwood to Hector, Eirika to Ephraim, Ike to Micaiah).

But hair color? While there is more blue than any other one color, there's a fair amount of others. Lyn, Eirika, and Ephraim are all clearly green, and you listed the rest for me, totaling eight of other colors. Which is compared to Marth, Arum, Siegfried, Hector, Ike, Chrom, and Lucina with blue, totaling seven - and that's with Awakening having just added two in one game. So yeah, that one is a bit more of a coincidence. Hell, there's a gap from FE5-8 where there's only one blue-haired Lord, Hector, and he's the least important of three Lords in his game.

[Xondoure]

Admittedly, in retrospect the sword thing should have been obvious. Even when we get a Lord who uses something else, they're co-star to at least one other Lord who does use swords (Lyn and Eliwood to Hector, Eirika to Ephraim, Ike to Micaiah).

But hair color? While there is more blue than any other one color, there's a fair amount of others. Lyn, Eirika, and Ephraim are all clearly green, and you listed the rest for me, totaling eight of other colors. Which is compared to Marth, Arum, Siegfried, Hector, Ike, Chrom, and Lucina with blue, totaling seven - and that's with Awakening having just added two in one game. So yeah, that one is a bit more of a coincidence. Hell, there's a gap from FE5-8 where there's only one blue-haired Lord, Hector, and he's the greatest of the three Lords in his game.

Okay Lyn's pretty cool. But axes.

[Zevox]

Okay Lyn's pretty cool. But axes.

Lyn is the main character of the first third of the game. Eliwood is the main character of the remaining two-thirds. Hector gets a variant mode that makes him more the focus, but it's just a variant, which you need to unlock by beating the regular version of the game once first. That leaves him as the least important of the three to the narrative.

[Xondoure]

Lyn is the main character of the first third of the game. Eliwood is the main character of the remaining two-thirds. Hector gets a variant mode that makes him more the focus, but it's just a variant, which you need to unlock by beating the regular version of the game once first. That leaves him as the least important of the three to the narrative.

I'm not denying that. He also uses axes. So, you know, the greatest.

[Hytheter]

There are Kremlings in Smash 4. In the 3DS version's "Smash Run" mode, they appear along other Nintendo enemies... So maybe there's hope for K. Rool and the Kremlings returning at some point... Not necessarily in Smash Bros, but in general.

Hm, let's hope so. If there's another DKC game in the style of Returns and Tropical freeze but featuring the return of King K.Rool I'll probably need new pants.
But I'm not really confident enough that it'll happen to hope for it. Smash Run has a lot of oddball enemies doesn't it?

[TheSummoner]

From what I've seen, Smash Run pulls enemies from a lot of different Nintendo universes. For the Donkey Kong series, it was Kremlings. I didn't see any Tikis or Snomads, but I know a Kritter when I see one.

[KerfuffleMach2]

It would be good to have K. Rool in the game. And not just because of having another DK character. The game could use another villain or two to play as.

[Sith_Happens]

It would be good to have K. Rool in the game. And not just because of having another DK character. The game could use another villain or two to play as.

Mewtwo started as a villain...

[TheSummoner]

If you want to apply that logic, so did Donkey Kong.

[KerfuffleMach2]

Mewtwo started as a villain...

Well, in the movie, yeah. In the game, he was more of just an out of control force. Bad, but not a villain.

[TheSummoner]

I got a chance to play Smash Brothers 4 today. They were having events at certain Best Buy stores and I decided it was worth a day for a chance to play the game before its official release.

I mostly stuck to Little Mac and Megaman. Unfortunately they did not have the Gamecube controller adapter at the demo. An unfamiliar controller combined with new characters meant I didn't do very well at first, but by the end of the day, I was satisfied with how I played. In general, the game feels faster and weightier than Brawl, though not to the level Melee was.

Little Mac felt even faster than I had expected when I finally got a chance to control him. He hits like a truck too. His recovery is pretty terrible though, so despite his power, he's fairly easy to KO horizontally once he's taken a bit of punishment. As for Megaman, the big thing that stood out is that is fairly lacking in KO moves. All but a few of his attacks are some form of projectile, and they lack knock back compared to what I'm used to. The most consistent KO I could find was Slash Claw, one of his air attacks, which complicates things. In a stock match where playing keep-away and piling on damage from a distance is viable or in a 1 on 1 where he can dance around a single opponent, I can see him being more effective, but he didn't seem well suited to 4-man timed matches (which is how things were set up at the demo).

[Bucky]

Ganondorf and Meta Knight goddamn better be back or I'll be pissed.

Some kid allegedly randomed Ganondorf at a demo event.

[Fargazer]

New character reveal is up. It was a very pleasant surprise.

[Zevox]

So, we just got probably the most confusing, surprising set of reveals for Smash Brothers in a while today. One of which looks like it means the big leak was in fact fake after all.

The smaller one is the fact that today's picture-of-the-day on the site is of a trophy for Ray-Man. Yes, Ubisoft's Ray-Man. So, apparently they went through the trouble of getting the rights to a third-party character like him just to make him a trophy? Uh, what?

But beyond that, the trailer that was revealed in a live-stream to the site this morning was quite the surprise. It reveals our third Fire Emblem character, and it is not Chrom. It's Robin, the Avatar. Both male and female versions, apparently. And Lucina, apparently, though her moves looked identical to Marth's, so I'm guessing she's a costume, not a separate character in her own right. Chrom does show up, but for the one scene we see it looks like he's just a part of Robin's Final Smash, teaming up with him/her to beat the crap out of whoever they hit.

So, yeah, that big leak said Chrom was playable, and it looks like he isn't. So it appears we actually haven't had a real leak as yet after all, despite that one somehow successfully predicting eights characters, including the Wii Fit Trainer.

Oh, and they threw Captain Falcon into the trailer, so he's back too, not that that'll surprise anyone.

[Fargazer]

Would they really have gone through the trouble of a release video featuring her if Lucina wasn't a separate character? She also has a page on the website that lists her as a newcomer. Her moves do look similar to Marth's, but we only saw a few, so there may still be room for diversity there.

[Zevox]

Would they really have gone through the trouble of a release video featuring her if Lucina wasn't a separate character? She also has a page on the website that lists her as a newcomer. Her moves do look similar to Marth's, but we only saw a few, so there may still be room for diversity there.

She also doesn't get the big, triple-sized block on the character page that all of the newcomers do, which I can think of no reason for other than that she's not considered a true newcomer. Best guess for why she even gets her own page would be because she is a different person from Marth, which none of the other alternate costumes so far have been - including having her own voice actress, for example.

As for the video, they stuck her into a reveal trailer for a true newcomer, Robin. Which, again, they haven't done for any of the other newcomers. Each has gotten a video to themselves, save for the Villager, and that's because he was revealed as part of the game's very first reveal trailer. So yeah, if nothing else they're definitely not treating Lucina the same as the other newcomers.

And honestly, we saw enough of her moves that it's safe to say that if she's not a costume, she's a clone. She has Marth's aerials and Dancing Blade at the very least, and I'd say one of her pictures on the site looks like she's using Shield Breaker as well. Another appears to show her using Marth's sword-sheathing taunt, even. And she has the same idle and jumping animations as him.

[Yana]

Even if she is a clone though, having four separate FE characters in smash is a dream come true I'd say.