And now...Shields!

[Indoril]

So I was digging through my homebrew folder (actually folder is innaccurate, I have a homebrew file...a single gargantuan word file that I'm in the process of organizing) and I found the feats I made up when I decided shields in D&D are stupid. A knight with a shield in the Middle Ages was much better off than than represented by the insignificant bonuses granted by shields and the Shield Specialization feat in the Player's Handbook II (which I have included here modified to fit the style I was aiming for, the original is also here).

I could rant for several pages about how much WotC's shields enrage me though. Here are the feats I spoke of. I figured I'd go in the direction of the Weapon Focus/Specialization feats and turn it into a viable combat style. Tell me what you think, and post anything you think could/should be changed.

Update #2
This is the complete variant, reworked taking some suggestions throughout the thread. Continue to post any suggestions you might have.

[Caewil]

Rather feat heavy, actually. I too agree that shields need to be made better, but a +1 for the cost of a feat? Honestly not worth it. A few +s here and there aren't going to make it as effective as a 2 hander build.

[Indoril]

Well two hander builds are effective for dishing out damage. This feat string would be effective for being a meat shield.

These would be feats taken by your proverbial tank. A fighter who doesn't need to deal a whole lot of damage, he just needs to be good at getting in the way of damage and not dying.

So while the greataxe-wielding, power-attacking half orc with 22 Str is butchering the gargantuan monstrous spider, you can sit here with your AC of 35 and keep the nine-headed hydra off of the healer long enough for the aforementioned half-orc to come over and butcher the hydra.

Also note that these would be five of the 18 feats that a fighter ends up getting, and that isn't counting one feat for being human or any feats for taking flaws. You could match these up with the Weapon Focus/Specialization feats and Power Attack and you'd have a fighter dealing a respectable amount of damage while taking much, much less than his two-handed weapon counterpart.

...but a +1 for the cost of a feat?

I had actually reduced that from +2 (Shield Spec.) and subsequently +4 (Greater Shield Spec.). Do you think that might be worht a feat or two?

[Behold_the_Void]

Do these still function with Animated Shields?

[Indoril]

Do these still function with Animated Shields?

I...actually that hadn't crossed my mind. It wouldn't make any sense, but I can't think of a reason why not. Let me go look up the animated enchant.

[magic8BALL]

Rather feat heavy, actually. I too agree that shields need to be made better, but a +1 for the cost of a feat? Honestly not worth it.

Ahh... two feats... you gotta have shield focus to get shield specialisation...

Why not follow what WotC did with heavy armor?
Heavy Armor Optimization (from Races of Stone), reduce armor check by 1 AND increase AC bonus by 1. The Greater version has higher prereqs, decreases the check penalty by 2, and stacks with Heavy Armor Optimization!

Using this as a base, and applying to shields you get:

Shield Optimization [General]
You have trained extensively in the correct use of shields.
Prerequisites: Shield Proficiency, BAB +4
Benefit: When wielding a shield you are proficient with, lessen the armor check penalty by 1 and increase the shield bonus 1. These benefits do not apply to bucklers.
Special: A fighter may select Shield Optimization as a bonus feat.

Greater Shield Optimization [General]
You have mastered in the correct use of shields.
Prerequisites: Shield Optimization, BAB +8
Benefit: When wielding a shield you are proficient with, lessen the armor check penalty by 2 and increase the shield bonus 1. These benefts stack with Shield Optimization, for a total lessoning of the armor check penalty of three, and an increase to the shield bonus of 2. These benefits do not apply to bucklers.
Special: A fighter may select Greater Shield Optimization as a bonus feat.

I think this is more worth it. And Im not sure about a shield granting a defection bonus either. As for animated shields... I'm more and more inclined to think they should be given the boot. Use a shield or dont.

[Indoril]

Do these still function with Animated Shields?

The animated enchant reads "Upon command, an animated shield floats within 2 feet of the wielder, protecting her as if she were using it herself but freeing up both her hands." (DMG page 218)

So...yes. They do. Such is the power of magic I guess...

[Indoril]

Ahh... two feats... you gotta have shield focus to get shield specialisation...

Why not follow what WotC did with heavy armor?
Heavy Armor Optimization (from Races of Stone), reduce armor check by 1 AND increase AC bonus by 1. The Greater version has higher prereqs, decreases the check penalty by 2, and stacks with Heavy Armor Optimization!

Using this as a base, and applying to shields you get:

Shield Optimization [General]
You have trained extensively in the correct use of shields.
Prerequisites: Shield Proficiency, BAB +4
Benefit: When wielding a shield you are proficient with, lessen the armor check penalty by 1 and increase the shield bonus 1. These benefits do not apply to bucklers.
Special: A fighter may select Shield Optimization as a bonus feat.

Greater Shield Optimization [General]
You have mastered in the correct use of shields.
Prerequisites: Shield Optimization, BAB +8
Benefit: When wielding a shield you are proficient with, lessen the armor check penalty by 2 and increase the shield bonus 1. These benefts stack with Shield Optimization, for a total lessoning of the armor check penalty of three, and an increase to the shield bonus of 2. These benefits do not apply to bucklers.
Special: A fighter may select Greater Shield Optimization as a bonus feat.

I think this is more worth it. And Im not sure about a shield granting a defection bonus either.

You know, I meant to put half Dex modifer as a shield bonus to AC. Apologies, it's 3am here and I'm tired. I'll go change that now.

Also hows this. My original version of Shield Mastery had full Dex modifier as a shield bonus to AC, but I lessened it because I thought that was too broken. For such a feat heavy build, would that be more worth it?

[Icewalker]

I agree with magic8BALL and Arachnid on this, they are a little too weak, you should increase them. 8BALLs suggestions for those combined feats are good, they look more even to me, maybe even an additional +1 to AC from em. that +2 to AC from 2 feats isn't going to bring you to the aforementioned 35 AC (real good fighter (10 +4dex +2hvy shield +2 specialization +10(magic)fullplate comes to 28, and thats with +2 Full Plate.)

[Indoril]

I went ahead and increased all the AC bonuses to what I had them at when I originally made these, as that seems to be the consensus all around. Tell me what you think now.

[Icewalker]

They look realistic to me, as well as balanced, though I'm not sure of that. I have a question though: Does Shield Mastery stack with Greater Shield Specialization? then you have fighters with 18 dex getting a +10 from their heavy shields.

[Indoril]

Level 16 fighters, anyways. And that's right about how effective shields should be. I think they should stack, but if it proves to be unbalanced that way then I'll change that.

[magic8BALL]

...what about the poor old psychic warrior? or the barbarian for that matter? do they still need to put up with "poorly done shield rules"? Why cant a TWF ranger who uses a shield bash as a weapon get these feats? or a cleric? Seems too exclusive to say that fighters are the only people who care about self-preservation to me...

[Indoril]

Well the weapon specializations and greater focus are only allowed to fighters of 4th, 8th, and 12th level. Nobody's ever asked questions about that I don't think.

You know though, I actually don't see any reasoning why the other combat classes would be denied the weapon specializations. Unless someone can present a legitimate reason why I shouldn't...
Fighter level 4th, 8th, 12th, and 16th will be changed to...
BAB +4, +8, +12, and +16

[Cybren]

wouldn't getting a shield bonus equal to your dex mode...overlap and not stack with the shields actual shield bonus to AC?

[Indoril]

wouldn't getting a shield bonus equal to your dex mode...overlap and not stack with the shields actual shield bonus to AC?

Would that be more balanced, do you think? Or does it just not make sense to you?

Edit
The more I think about it the more I think I should have them not stack. But to make it worht something, I'll have to bump the prerequisite Dexterity to at least 20 (anything less than that and you'd be losing or not gaining any AC for taking the feat). Hows it look now?

[Cybren]

Would that be more balanced, do you think? Or does it just not make sense to you?

I just meant hte wording was kind of confusing as to what it does.

[magic8BALL]

no... I just dont like shield mastery as is. you need dex 20+ to get any effect from it, and if you have that sort of dex, you're not worried about shields at lower levels. You need to be a fighter, barbarian or paladin to get it pre-epic, and these guys usually have 16 or so or less for a dex score.

How about:

Shield Mastery [General]
You have learnt that it's not the size of the shield that matters, it's how you uses it.
Prerequisites: Dex 15, Greater Shield Specialization, base attack bonus +16
Benefit: Your shield is treated as having a base bonus to AC equal to you dex modifier. This stacks with the +4 bonus from Greater Shield Specialization. For instance, a barbarian with Dex 16 and a +2 light shield with this feat would have a +9 shield bonus to AC (+3 dex, +2 enhancement, +4 greater shield specialization).
Anytime you would be denied your dextrity to AC, your shield provides its normal bonus only.
Special: A fighter may select Shield Mastery as a bonus feat.

Any good? I'd probly drop the BAB to +12 myself... but I'd also probly use my other sugestions above too...

[Caewil]

Level 16 fighters, anyways. And that's right about how effective shields should be. I think they should stack, but if it proves to be unbalanced that way then I'll change that.

I wouldn't worry about it. Most of the higher level (melee) monsters have massive bonuses to hit anyway. And the most potent threats are magical in nature anyways.

[Indoril]

Shield Mastery [General]
You have learnt that it's not the size of the shield that matters, it's how you uses it.
Prerequisites: Dex 15, Greater Shield Specialization, base attack bonus +16
Benefit: Your shield is treated as having a base bonus to AC equal to you dex modifier. This stacks with the +4 bonus from Greater Shield Specialization. For instance, a barbarian with Dex 16 and a +2 light shield with this feat would have a +9 shield bonus to AC (+3 dex, +2 enhancement, +4 greater shield specialization).
Anytime you would be denied your dextrity to AC, your shield provides its normal bonus only.
Special: A fighter may select Shield Mastery as a bonus feat.

I changed it a bit more something like this, but not quite exactly the same. How is it now?

[Behold_the_Void]

The reason I ask about being usable with Animated Shields is because Animated Shields are one of the key reasons people don't make sword-and-board builds. For 9,000 gold you can pick yourself up an animated shield +1 and still two-hand a weapon.

[Matthew]

Shields certainly need some love, but this does seem kind of Feat heavy and Shields probably need to do more than just provide +X AC to make Weapon and Shield more attractive than Two Handed Fighting.

One quick and dirty solution is to a Feat or House Rule that gives Combat Expertise a 2:1 AC to BAB return for Shield users.

Here's a link to an Active Block discussion from many months ago.

[Indoril]

The reason I ask about being usable with Animated Shields is because Animated Shields are one of the key reasons people don't make sword-and-board builds. For 9,000 gold you can pick yourself up an animated shield +1 and still two-hand a weapon.

I think I'm going to add in that the feats have no effect on animated shields. It doesn't make sense that animated shields should work for these.

[cferejohn]

It would be cool to add some shield feats that allowed you to block ranged touch/ray/line/cone/breath attacks as well. I mean, how many posters/paintings are there where the knight is fighting the dragon and blocking the breath weapon with his shield? It would be a nice bit of flavor if this were possible. Apologies if it's been done in some book I don't have...

[Matthew]

Arrow Block is already a Feat. It allows you to negate one Ranged Attack per round with a Shield.

[Indoril]

Shields certainly need some love, but this does seem kind of Feat heavy and Shields probably need to do more than just provide +X AC to make Weapon and Shield more attractive than Two Handed Fighting.

One quick and dirty solution is to a Feat or House Rule that gives Combat Expertise a 2:1 AC to BAB return for Shield users.

Here's a link to an Active Block discussion from many months ago.

Actually there is more to my shield variant than these feats. I had also started working on a complete rework of shields as items that cause all shields to, instead of grant you extra AC, grant you a set amount of cover. I intended to use that with these feats to make shields what they should be, but I hadn't completed it. I think I may at some point.

[Matthew]

Hmmn. Cover is troublesom, since it gives the character a penalty to hit his opponent. How do you propose to get around that problem?

[cferejohn]

Hmmn. Cover is troublesom, since it gives the character a penalty to hit his opponent. How do you propose to get around that problem?

Umm, make the penalty only apply to the opponent, like shooting around a corner?

[Matthew]

Well, then it's not cover, it's an AC and Reflex Save Bonus.

[Indoril]

Hmmn. Cover is troublesom, since it gives the character a penalty to hit his opponent. How do you propose to get around that problem?

I just read over Cover as it is stated in the PHB, it says nothing of a penalty to attacks to characters who have cover.

Where do you see this at?

This is what it has listed for cover:

• +2 bonus to Ref saves against attacks originating from a point on the other side of the cover as you (so, on the other side of your shield, or in front of you).
• If you have cover, attacks of opportunity may not be made against you.
• Cover can be used to make Hide checks
• Varying AC bonus, base being +4

So what if instead we used the concealment rules, giving a character holding a shield a base % chance to block?