Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 33
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2007

    Default Titans of the Mythos Subsystem

    For those curious about the system, we have a discussion thread. The first post is incomplete, missing the Bellator, among other things. This post is intended as a fluff piece that will likely only make sense to those that are already familiar with the classes. Don't be afraid to post a line in the discussion thread if you want to know more.

    Anyway,

    What About Those Other Titans?
    This homebrew material is meant to work in conjunction with the "Mythos" classes and cosmological expansion, my contributions of which can be found in my signature. These setting tweaks introduce creatures known as "Titans", who warred with the Gods in the days before the Great Wheel, Greek-mythology-style.

    However, they are more complex and alien creatures than the Gods themselves. Which brings us to the pre-existing notion of "Titans" in D&D; the chaotic outsider-giants, who amount to being very large narcissistic humans with some fairly tame spell-like abilities. For the purposes of the Mythos classes, and associated setting alterations, these creatures are known as Primal Giants, an ancient creation of some of the first deities, who engaged in the war between the Gods and Titans. However, the Gods having not yet mastered the imposition of stability on the pre-Wheel maelstrom, created the Primal Giants quite close to the very chaos they fought against, and most eventually turned and sided with the Titans. Nearly all of these traitors were killed in the war, or executed for their treason afterward, but perhaps one or two titanic loyalists still yet live. Those loyal to the Gods settled in Arborea and Ysgard, as settled as such creatures can be, and participated in the creation of many of the Giant races that inhabit the Wheel today.

    A Basic Overview
    A Titan is not a creature of flesh or blood, and predates many of the modern notions of what defines a creature. They are living narratives; self-defined truths with enough gravity to escape the grinding impossibility of the Far Realm. In a chaotic primordial maelstrom without rules or physics, space or time, definition or nothingness, the only things that could find purchase enough to thrive in the cosmic foundations were rivers of consistent ideas and concepts. The first story to become aware enough to declare its own existence, and thereby exist, became known as the Empyrean. With his heart of white fire, he became a beacon for more stories to follow him, and eventually an entire tribe of likewise things amassed in the chaos, and began to create. They knew themselves as Titans.

    The form a Titan takes is unique among the myriad creatures that have existed since, often referenced, occasionally imitated, but never fully replicated - in that they live as many different things simultaneously, all different, but all equally part of them, even though some parts are less important or vital than others. The following is a standardized list of selves that an adult Titan exists as, though each individual Titan may have one or more non-conforming traits, such as the Empyrean having two hearts, or the Monster having a unique, condensed soul compendium.

    • One Theme
    • One Principle (Also known as their "Heart")
    • One Stage (Also known as their "World-Body")
    • One Thesis (Also known as their "Incarnate Self")
    • A Soul Compendium containing:
      • 7-12 Premises (Also known as Upper Souls)
      • Somewhere between several thousand and a few billion Notions (Also known as Lower Souls)
    • Many dozens, potentially more than a hundred, Mythos


    In addition, a Titan may partially exist as zero or more Anthols; these are special amalgamated creatures that are both individuals, and part of a Titan, discussed later.

    Of course, these are the specifications for a fully grown Titan. Like most mortals, Titans are formed as very rudimentary things, but gifted with boundless potential. As they grow, their potential solidifies, and they eventually reach the apex of what they can become on their own. Because Titans predate the concept of rigid, linear, universal time, they do not grow by simply aging; they grow by iterating on and expanding their story, supplying it with nuance, embellishment, and emphasis.

    When a Titan first comes to be, it is in a Larval stage, existing very simply as its own Incarnate Self, with a few core Exceptional Mythos to define it. Once it has found enough individuality to extrude a Principle, it begins to manifest Fantastic Mythos and becomes an Infant. At this point, it begins to produce Premises until it can birth its Legendary Mythos and become a Child, and then on to Exalted Mythos and the beginning of the coalescence of its Theme, to become an Adolescent. Between the Adolescent and Mature stages, their Premises begin to create Notions, and their Stage begins to take shape, as they master Sempiternal Mythos. Once their Stage is complete, and they have created their first Immemorial Mythos, a Titan becomes an Adult. Beyond this, the greatest of Titan-kind may become Elders, and reach into their most eminent, Xenocosmic Mythos.

    This is a state that a few Titans were capable of touching upon briefly, but the Empyrean was the only one to have created his own, permanent, Xenocosmic Mythos. Outside of true Titans, the first deity and Lawgiver, the Sun, achieved this lofty station before his own downfall.

    Theme
    A Titan's theme is malleable in its youth and soldifies over time - its purpose is to state, very plainly, what the Titan's story is about.

    For example, the Monster's Theme is "enraged violence, brutality, and terrorization". When a creature intentionally physically harms another creature out of any kind of anger, they are telling the Monster's story. When a creature embraces savage, barbaric, and unnecessarily cruel behavior, they are telling the Monster's story. When a creature uses violence or the threat of violence to inflict emotional trauma on other creatures for their own pleasure, or the furthering of their own goals, they are telling the Monster's story.

    Originally, a Titan's theme would have died with them. There were no "default rules" to the maelstrom of chaos before the Wheel - if the Monster had died, then the maelstrom would no longer have held stories of gratuitous, hot-blooded violence. The concept would no longer have held enough weight to continue existing. Conflicts could still arise in the Titans' stories, involving cold-blooded, calculated sadism, or angry verbal debates, or friendly tussles, but they would lose the potential for most instances of sudden, angry butchery.

    However, the great, seemingly infeasible at the time, goal of the ancient Gods was to create a multiverse of substance and consistency, with rules, and physics, and laws. They could build it, of course - they were great builders - but the maelstrom offered no solid foundation upon which to construct their house. They found this foundation in the defeated Titans, unraveling their stories, spinning apart their skin, and sewing it back together in forms they found more pleasing, creating all the worlds and places and ideas that they liked. Unfortunately for the Titans, this left them in an eternal nightmare state, where their almost-corpses still yet convulse upon the strata of a monument to everything that they hate. Their killers and tormenters play games and fight wars and raise families on the Wheel of their desecrated flesh while the Titans themselves scream silently between stitching made of their brothers and sisters.

    The black lining on this pitch-black cloud is that the Great Wheel now sustains their Themes and, by association, the Titans as well. If the Monster were killed, utterly and truly, obliterated to the tiniest mote, unshaped and unmade, the Wheel would still sustain his Themes - the world of the Gods will always have its violence and terror. And, because the Theme still exists, the Monster's Mythos will still exist, and so a new Monster will inevitably come to be, identical to the old one, or perhaps even greater. This gives the Titans a curiously durable immortality beyond any other creature, so long as the Wheel stands.

    Principle
    A Titan's heart functions as something like its biggest fan. It is a separate creature from the Titan's Incarnate Self, but resonates powerfully with all of the Titan's ideals, providing it with adoration and inspiration, encouraging the creation of new Mythos, and administrating the functions of all of the Titan's other selves.

    In terms of vitality, a Titan can survive the complete death of its Principle, though it is an intensely destructive act, one which can completely shear parts of a Titan's Mythos off of its narrative, and may even corrupt the Titan's story in gruesome and fundamental ways. Fortunately, killing the body of a Titan's Principle is rarely sufficient to ensure the Principle's death; often it can simply be reconsistuted by the Incarnate Self. If their heart is truly killed, a Titan will have to create a new heart, eventually, though it will not be the same as the last, and the Titan will never be the same again.

    At higher levels of power, a Titan's heart may become complex enough that it must split itself into its own Incarnate Self and Stage, though they are never as vast and impressive as the Titan's own version of these things.

    Mechanically, a Titan's Principle always has some amount of the Titan's Mythos, though never all of it. It will tend to pursue other expressions of power that resonate with the Titan, but that the Titan's Incarnate Self is too busy creating Mythos to indulge in (the Monster's heart is a fan of the Tiger Claw Martial Discipline, for instance).

    Stage
    A Titan's world-body is a physical environment that they have created to host their stories. At the Stage's introduction, it may only be the size of a town, or a city, but once a Titan is fully grown, they will have something on the planetary scale on which to play. The environment itself is reflective of the Titan's nature, and perfect for telling the Titan's story, though potentially inhospitable to creatures that do not revel in the telling of such tales.

    Rarely can a Titan's world-body act directly; it must rely on its other aspects to defend, grow, populate, and make use of it.

    The Titan, Mutation, had a Stage in the form of a planet dominated with writhing jungles and sinister oceans, often with places where the two biomes mingled, in which all living things underwent rapid, explosive evolution, consuming one another in an endless cycle of change for change's sake, with no goal or ultimate purpose. For every fish, there was a bigger fish, and when a fish had reached perfection, they would continue to feed and to change, losing their perfection, degrading themselves with weaker traits, evolving to lesser forms, and being consumed by another. Death was not the greatest fear for them; stasis was. Better to be consumed and become something else than to spend an eternity in perfect spirit-crushing stagnation.

    The destruction of a Titan's world-body is typically just as deadly as the death of a Titan's incarnate self, though it is often a trickier prospect. If the Stage is a town - where does the town end, and that which is not-town begin? If you burn down the town's buildings, does the soil still count? Where does the town's providence end within the very earth? Truly destroying a Stage involves destroying it unambiguously, and Titans can be quite ambiguous indeed.

    Thesis
    A Titan's incarnate self is the method by which it attempts to know and understand itself. Just as a Human tends to think of its "self" as its brain, because the processes of its mind feel more personal than the billions of other, equally intimate and equally important, processes its cells are performing at any one time, a Titan tends to think of its Thesis as its most personal "self", hince the informal name. It is, after all, the part of the Titan that exists first, so it can be easy to become attached.

    A Titan's Thesis is responsible for creating each of its Mythos, and accumulating the life experience required to iterate on the story and grow more powerful capabilities. Operating its incarnate self requires a staggering amount of a Titan's conscious effort, and so adult Titans often choose to put their Thesis into dormancy, allowing their consciousness to flow out and over all of its Stage and Premises, and its senses to extend out to touch on various Notions and Anthols. From this perspective, the weaving of stories is much easier.

    The Titan, Design, had a Thesis with a very peculiar and unique shape, though it would be instantly recognizable, at least in part, to any modern denizen of the Wheel. It had one head, two arms, and two legs, connected by a central torso piece. Today's mortals would call this a Humanoid shape, after the various Demihuman races that populate every inch of the Prime, while immortals are more likely to call it the Divine shape, as the vast majority of Gods take this shape as well.

    It was Design's nature to seek perfection, and he believed this shape to be the perfect expression of physical form. To his great dismay, his unquestionable emperor, the Empyrean, did not choose to take such a shape, and to suggest that s/he should do so would be the gravest kind of insult. But Design was a crafty Titan, and skilled in social manipulations - over millennia, he created concepts for festivals, and gifts, and etiquette, distributing them amongst the other Titans until such things became ingrained in them. Dogma extrapolated on these ideas to make formalized religious ceremonies and rituals, while Ephemera's souls held grandiose sporting events and other physical competitions for her pleasure, and even the Maker would tear himself from his great works to summon his guild-masters for an annual night of sensible merrymaking.

    Last was the Empyrean to embrace these ideas, not for lack of interest, but because s/he could not abide that any party be an equal to hi/r own or, more unthinkably, greater. Hi/r souls toiled frantically over a great period of time but, when everything was perfect, the most lavish banquet was thrown in the House Empyreal, at the Seat of the Cosmos, where the comforting emptiness of the king's self lay outward and beneath as the spiraling solar system in which the other Titans orbited hi/r, and the scar in the Far Realm from which they had fled stretched overhead in its infinite cornucopia of colors and textures.

    With the twin hearts of the Empyrean seated at their thrones, gifts were offered to them, and Design's gift was his perfect form, the two-armed, two-legged, one-headed shape that he adored - knowing that the Empyreal Lord and Lady could not refuse a beautiful gift so earnestly given without breaching the etiquette they had already subscribed to, which would have been disgraceful indeed. They took the gift, as they must, and assumed humanoid shapes tailored to their liking.

    And so it was that Design became the almighty arbiter of vogue in the maelstrom, and an outlandish majority of the Titans' souls and selves clamored to him to devise their bodies for them. Soon, creatures without this shape were being defined by their lack; and when the Gods arose, this particular shape was so ubiquitous in the chaos that birthed them that they, too, took it for themselves, and made mortals (and a great many immortals) in their image. And this is why most intelligent species look exactly the same; Humans, Astral Devas, Balors, Worms That Walk, The Lady of Pain - if one looks just about anywhere, they find the same old design, with a few tweaks here and there.

    For this reason, most Titans' have a "Humanoid" Thesis, and most of their souls, if intelligent, also tend to default to at least partially humanoid physical traits. Few cosmic tropes have as much inertia as that shape.

    Soul Compendium
    Without actors, what story can there be? This is where the teeming masses of a Titan's lesser souls come in. Notions are mass-produced species of spiritual creatures that are necessary for a Titan to tell their story, with each adult Titan hosting multiple species for different roles. They are always weak in comparison to the Titan itself, often not all that distant from the power of future mortal races, but their forms are many.

    One group of the Maker's Notions were the Mudgara, made to be his smiths, carpenters, masons, engineers, and other assorted craftsmen. Huge, multi-armed, resilient to heat and fatigue, and brilliant multi-taskers, they were perfect expressions of the ideal they represented. Meanwhile, the Taksani toiled as apprentices, assistants, and students - smaller, weaker, made less intelligent, it was their role to serve and aspire, though their nature necessitated that they rarely, if ever, truly grew to be greater. Together, they told stories of clever, hard-working artisans that overcame obstacles from within themselves and without to forge wondrous things, and those menial servants who fetched water and stoked bellows and carried large objects that could then feel honored by association.

    If the Notions are actors, then a Titan's Premises can be compared to directors. Vastly more powerful than any individual Notion, and utterly dominant over them, Premises are born from a Titan's Heart, and then go on to design and create Notions according to their sensibilities. They administrate, organize, and regulate, for whatever analogue that Titan's nature has. For example, the Premise of Mutation, K'Saya was a series of massive ooze-filled pits in which floated thousands of strands of fanged wires, not unlike jellyfish tentacles. Lurching through the morass of Mutation's Stage, it drew in and consumed all those Notions that had evolved to become too difficult to be easily consumed by other Notions, but too weak to continue evolving at a satisfactory pace (for example, Mutation did not particularly relish stories about massive immobile shells that could hibernate for millennia without food, living without really doing anything). In Mutation's hierarchy, this is an administrative position.

    Of course, with increased power comes increased importance to the Titan's overall being. The death of a Notion is completely undebilitating to its greater self. Complete genocide of a Titan's people is, at most, a setback (though none of them exactly laughed about it when the Monster decided to visit someone's world-body in force). The death of a Premise is, however, debilitating to a Titan - not nearly so much as their Heart, but the pain is great nonetheless, injuring their Principle, Thesis, and potentially their Stage as well. Much like a Titan's Heart, killing a Premise for real is easier said than done, as the destruction of their physical forms can be reversed by the time and effort of the Heart itself.

    Mythos
    Each of a Titan's Mythos is a single building-block of their narrative self, a collection of words and effects that defines them, whether through determining their shape, their personality, their capabilities, their spiritual structure, or some other aspect about them.

    When a creature other than a Titan obtains one of their Mythos, they have collected a literal piece of that Titan and bound it to their real, physical self, an action that, for those that have not been enlightened to the source of their power, is completely undetectable and unknowable. A Teramach that gains a new Mythos only feels as though they have become more powerful in some way - the fact that they are becoming part of an archaic story-monster is beyond their scope to understand.

    Note that there are many basic proto-Mythos that are beyond mortal creatures to obtain, not because they are too vast or powerful, but because they are redundant to their nature. Each Titan has a few Mythos that allow them to think and to move and to have mass and so on. These are the things a larval Titan pieces together as part of the process of being born. A Human, or an Elf, or what-have-you is already made with these things as an inherent part of their existence by virtue of being created as a citizen of the Gods' Great Wheel, and so these proto-Mythos are impossible for them to grasp, save for one esoteric case.

    Anthols
    As previously noted, it is possible for a creature other than a Titan to obtain one or more of a Titan's Mythos. Before the Great Wheel, there were constructed life forms known as Anthols. Beyond a Titan's Incarnate Self to grasp, these were living masterpieces built by Premises and Notions, then granted a spark of mythic power by the Titan's Principle. They were strange things, marveled at even by other Titans as symbols of opulence and objects of jealousy - while they existed as part of a Titan's story, the other part of them was built of a primal ur-reality, not so real as those creations of the Gods, but more real and stable than the Titans. What's more, they had true free will, and were able to act and think and create entirely beyond the story of the Titan they were formed from, inspiring feelings of guilty, fearful entertainment in the primordial host.

    The vast majority of these primal Anthols were destroyed in the great war between the Gods and Titans, and they were exceedingly rare to begin with. A few escaped notice long enough to find a hiding place somewhere in the Great Wheel, and even fewer managed to survive to the current day, mostly the ones too weak or clever to have their titanic nature easily discovered.

    Of course, with the rise of the Great Wheel, another altogether different variety of Anthol came to be. The unwoven titans that suffer between the cogs of the multiverse are bleeding, and their blood occasionally collects in the heart of a mortal creature. It's not power that's given, or granted, or gifted, though some may refer to it as such. It is power that's earned, whether by actions that one takes, or has taken, or would take, or will take - even with the linear time imposed by the Wheel, mythic power defies reasonable expectations. This person is a hero, and the legacy of the Titans is theirs by right, however it is claimed.

    But Mortal Anthols are stranger still than their primal kin. They have a potential capacity that the Titans themselves thought impossible - they can obtain and combine multiple primordial narratives within the same vessel. For example, a Teramach could, through unconscious will, draw on and learn one of the Empyrean's Mythos, becoming a scion of two Titans simultaneously. The full cosmic ramifications of this ability are unknown, as no Mortal Anthol with a predilection for combining multiple types of Mythos has ever reached the threshold where their power has gained enough gravity to shape the world through its nature alone. Would they create a new Titan, born of two or more "parents"? Would they be torn apart by two mutually exclusive forces grown too large to hold together any longer? Would they become some terrible mutant abomination? Would the Great Wheel be broken and blended together as two of its foundational stones are threaded into one another? None can guess with any degree of authority.

    New Feats

    Spoiler
    Show

    Broken [Mythic Patron] Amalgam
    Although you already host the tale of one mythic being, you have unconsciously drawn on your spiritual breadth and strangeness of character to entwine yourself with another narrative, embodying it as you do your first, though to a lesser degree.
    Prerequisite: One Mythos
    Benefit: This feat is actually a template for multiple different feats with similar effects. Broken Monster Amalgam, for example, is a different feat than Broken Iron Amalgam, though each has the same effect, but with one concerning the Teramach and the other concerning the Bellator.

    Choose one Mythos-granting class that you have levels in. Select three Exceptional Mythos and one Fantastic Mythos belonging to [Mythic Patron]. You may treat them as if they belonged to that class.

    This feat may be selected multiple times, choosing three new Exceptional Mythos and one new Fantastic Mythos from the same patron each time.

    [Mythic Patron] Anthology Conflux
    You have become something alien and otherworldly to those who know how to see it, a deformed anomaly in the cosmic strata where two rivers of power intersect without disruption.
    Prerequisite: The corresponding 'Broken [Mythic Patron] Amalgam' feat, One Fantastic Mythos
    Benefit: Like its prerequisite, this feat is a template for multiple different feats with similar effects, each one concerning a specific Mythic Patron.

    Select two Exceptional, two Fantastic, and one Legendary Mythos belonging to [Mythic Patron]. You may treat them as if they belonged to the Mythos-granting class you previously chose for the effects of this feat's prerequisite, as well as all of [Mythic Patron]'s Excellencies.

    This feat may be selected multiple times, choosing two more Exceptional and Fantastic Mythos, and one Legendary Mythos from the same patron each time.

    [Mythic Paton] Essence Analect
    You have reached a perverse kind of perfection in your misshapen spiritual advancement, making you an amusing enigma that could incite interest in even the greatest mythic beings. Were your degenerate nature to grow any further, if it even could do so, it would almost certainly turn that amusement to fear and distrust, even in otherwise allied creatures.
    Prerequisite: The corresponding '[Mythic Patron] Anthology Conflux' feat, One Legendary Mythos
    Benefit: Just like its prerequisites, this feat is a template for multiple different feats with similar effects, functioning only for a specific Mythic Patron.

    Select one Fantastic, two Legendary, and one Exalted Mythos belonging to [Mythic Patron]. You may treat them as if they belonged to the Mythos-granting class you previously chose for the effects of this feat's prerequisites.

    This feat may be selected multiple times, choosing one more Fantastic, two more Legendary, and one more Exalted Mythos from the same patron each time.
    Last edited by Xefas; 2014-04-10 at 08:42 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Primal Fury's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    In the heart of the beast
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Titans of the Mythos Subsystem

    Okay... I'm not even gonna finish reading this before I post. Immemorial Mythos? Xenocosmic Mythos??? Are you friggin' kidding me?! Sempeternal Mythos are ALREADY ridiculous in scope, and you're telling me there's TWO MORE tiers beyond that? Jeez man...

    Alright this is pretty cool. I understand, now, how a mortal might happen upon a Mythos in the first place. But all of this leaves me REALLY confused as to what Lawgivers are. Are they relatively young Titans? Or are they something else entirely by virtue of their birth?

    Oh, and if I'm reading this correctly, then that means that mortals who take levels in Mythos-granting classes are called "Anthols". Is that right?
    Last edited by Primal Fury; 2014-04-10 at 09:25 PM.
    My Homebrew



  3. - Top - End - #3
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2007

    Default Re: Titans of the Mythos Subsystem

    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Fury View Post
    Okay... I'm not even gonna finish reading this before I post. Immemorial Mythos? Xenocosmic Mythos??? Are you friggin' kidding me?! Sempeternal Mythos are ALREADY ridiculous in scope, and you're telling me there's TWO MORE tiers beyond that? Jeez man...
    Look man, you need supreme, ultimate abilities. And then you need a tier above that so a character can kick logic to the curb and row row fight the power with a wicked heavy metal leitmotif in their crowning moment of awesome. And then you need a tier above that to maintain the mystery and wonder, to keep the flame of ambition alive so that one always has something to strive for, even if it is beyond the bounds of the current story being told. And then you need a tier above that because I hate spellcasters.

    Alright this is pretty cool. I understand, now, how a mortal might happen upon a Mythos in the first place. But all of this leaves me REALLY confused as to what Lawgivers are. Are they relatively young Titans? Or are they something else entirely by virtue of their birth?
    They're a completely different beast.

    Oh, and if I'm reading this correctly, then that means that mortals who take levels in Mythos-granting classes are called "Anthols". Is that right?
    Yes. They're not likely to be called that in-setting, unless you're playing a game in which the Mythos-elements are in the forefront, rather than a background element to justify awesome non-spellcasters walking around doing cool but unrelated things (which is what I suggest they be used for). Titans, Lawgivers, and the oldest gods might know the name and be able to spot one. Otherwise, I just like it as an easy way to refer to them in future texts.
    Last edited by Xefas; 2014-04-10 at 09:53 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Adam1949's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2013

    Default Re: Titans of the Mythos Subsystem

    This new information brings up a lot of frightening images looking back at old fluff, especially my own ill-defined and hilariously incorrect stuff. For instance, the Titan known as the Mountain is somehow bigger than practically every other Titan (outright bigger than the Monster)... of course, I wrote that when I thought them to be the size of, you know, Mount Everest on average.

    This is terrifying.

    In other news, I suppose that means that I need to re-make all of my Mythic Races then, Xefas?

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Primal Fury's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    In the heart of the beast
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Titans of the Mythos Subsystem

    Quote Originally Posted by Xefas View Post
    They're a completely different beast.
    And I look forward to gaining a greater understanding of them.

    Titans, Lawgivers, and the oldest gods might know the name and be able to spot one. Otherwise, I just like it as an easy way to refer to them in future texts.
    Hm... I'm wondering if the Moon should use these terms when speaking in her story. It makes sense that she would be aware of such terms, considering the way she sees the world. But I'm always worried about taking that too far

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam1949 View Post
    This new information brings up a lot of frightening images looking back at old fluff, especially my own ill-defined and hilariously incorrect stuff. For instance, the Titan known as the Mountain is somehow bigger than practically every other Titan (outright bigger than the Monster)... of course, I wrote that when I thought them to be the size of, you know, Mount Everest on average.
    That's not a problem at all. There was a Primordial in Exalted named Mardukth, The Mountain And The Beast Upon It. He was the first king of the Primorials before the Empyrean crossed the endless sea of madness on his sister's burning crystalline thought-vessel. Or somesuch nonsense. After a while, the descriptions of what goes on get kind of silly and hard to follow. I'm not bashing the writers of Exalted, but I've always been one for more... concise descriptions.

    Anywho, Mardukth was big. I mean REALLY big. No bigger than that. Still bigger, and so on. His was of such ridiculous size that he had to be convinced that he was real constantly, asking "Who am I?" and "Am I Mardukth?" all the time. Then there's Isidoros, the Black Boar that Twists the Skies. He's also crazy big, but in a different way. His true form is that of a super-dense black hole that, as you can imagine, warps space and time around him. There was also Qaf, the Spear that Pierced Heaven and Earth. He went up and down infinitely. And the Shining Tyrant was literally omnipresent. Size doesn't mean the same thing to everyone.

    If you want to have the Mountain be the biggest Titan physically, then go right ahead. Say that he's too big for this universe, needing his own demiplane, and can only interact with this universe through a hole in reality, lest everything in existence be drawn into his gravitational pull and crushed to nothingness.

    Oh! Even better! He's bigger than the whole of the Great Wheel, and it just rests on his shoulders. You know, something crazy like that.
    Last edited by Primal Fury; 2014-04-10 at 10:33 PM.
    My Homebrew



  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Tychris1's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Mt. Ebott
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Titans of the Mythos Subsystem

    Oh my god.

    Angel of Death Shintai + Untamed Apocalypse Shintai + Creation Slaying Holocaust Blade + Protagonism Devouring Legend Singularity

    Nothing is safe.
    ░▄▀▄▀▀▀▀▄▀▄░░░░░░░░░
    ░█░░░░░░░░▀▄░░░░░░▄░
    █░░▀░░▀░░░░░▀▄▄░░█░█
    █░▄░█▀░▄░░░░░░░▀▀░░█
    █░░▀▀▀▀░░░░░░░░░░░░█
    █░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░█
    █░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░█
    ░█░░▄▄░░▄▄▄▄░░▄▄░░█░
    ░█░▄▀█░▄▀░░█░▄▀█░▄▀░
    ░░▀░░░▀░░░░░▀░░░▀░░░

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Feb 2012

    Default Re: Titans of the Mythos Subsystem

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam1949 View Post
    This is terrifying.

    In other news, I suppose that means that I need to re-make all of my Mythic Races then, Xefas?
    1. To a point yes, but since the mythos system ups the power system a bit it only makes sense that its "Pantheon of Mythos" do as well. However I find the mythos system to be more defined and immediate than a lot of spells. For example the making and unmaking abilities of the Titans are probably far slower than Genesis even though technically they could define the planar traits however they want.
    2. In theme maybe, but power no.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Primal Fury's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    In the heart of the beast
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Titans of the Mythos Subsystem

    Oh! I'm reminded of something you mentioned earlier Xefas. You said that you were going to include something about how the Moon defeated the Titan of Mutation by losing. Did you decide to leave that part out?
    My Homebrew



  9. - Top - End - #9
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2008

    Default Re: Titans of the Mythos Subsystem

    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Fury View Post
    Anywho, Mardukth was big. I mean REALLY big. No bigger than that. Still bigger, and so on. His was of such ridiculous size that he had to be convinced that he was real constantly, asking "Who am I?" and "Am I Mardukth?" all the time.
    I'm of the opinion that Mardukth's questioning was more to build up his own legend. He was immense because everyone else thought he was, and said so. His questioning wasn't confusion, but grandstanding. When something appeared to challenge him, he would turn and demand of his followers "WHO AM I?" and they would answer that he is Mardukth, the Mountain and the Beast Upon It, and he is invincible.

    Going along with this theory is that Theion usurped him simply by shanghaiing all his followers, so that when Mardukth turned to mock this challenger and demanded of them "DOES MARDUKTH KNEEL?" they all replied with a unanimous YES... and so he knelt.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2007

    Default Re: Titans of the Mythos Subsystem

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam1949 View Post
    In other news, I suppose that means that I need to re-make all of my Mythic Races then, Xefas?
    Well, that's up to you. Once the Mythos classes started getting a following, I should've been writing these kinds of things straight away to get everyone on the same page. But I didn't! So, sorry about that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Fury View Post
    And I look forward to gaining a greater understanding of them.
    They're much less complex than Titans. I'll talk a little bit more about them once I've made some hard decisions on what gods of the standard setting should be "upgraded" to Lawgiver status in my little sub-setting. I've already chosen Io. Thinking about Stern Alia and He-Who-Became-Tharizdun*. I still haven't decided whether the Lady of Pain should be Lawgiver or Titan (or Hidden Third Option, like the Omphalos).

    I have a story about that. He lead the task-force that imprisoned the Monster. Didn't make it out unscathed.
    Hm... I'm wondering if the Moon should use these terms when speaking in her story. It makes sense that she would be aware of such terms, considering the way she sees the world. But I'm always worried about taking that too far
    She certainly could. Few would be more qualified than her.
    His true form is that of a super-dense black hole that, as you can imagine, warps space and time around him.
    A super-dense pig-shaped black hole. With a pompadour. I believe I have a picture that one of the forumites sketched me a long time ago.
    Oh! Even better! He's bigger than the whole of the Great Wheel, and it just rests on his shoulders. You know, something crazy like that.
    Well, the center of the Great Wheel is the tip of an infinitely giant spire that reaches from beneath Outland all the way up to Sigil. I was just gonna lump it in as part of the Omphalos, but if someone wants to use it for their own thing, that's way better. (As an aside, I'm betting afroakuma's planar questions threads in the 3rd edition forum are a goldmine for pe-existing "hooks" in the Great Wheel to hang Mythos stuff on. I thought I knew a lot about Planescape, but then I met afroakuma.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Fury View Post
    Oh! I'm reminded of something you mentioned earlier Xefas. You said that you were going to include something about how the Moon defeated the Titan of Mutation by losing. Did you decide to leave that part out?
    I thought I was too! I wrote the essay over several sittings, and I know I wrote that story fairly early on. But then when I came to post the whole thing, I realized that the story wasn't in here. Now I'm frantically looking through my poorly organized homebrew folder to see if I cut it and saved it somewhere. I really hope I didn't delete it, because it was pretty cool.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Primal Fury's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    In the heart of the beast
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Titans of the Mythos Subsystem

    Cool. A little off-topic here: How many arms does the Sun have?
    My Homebrew



  12. - Top - End - #12
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2007

    Default Re: Titans of the Mythos Subsystem

    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Fury View Post
    Cool. A little off-topic here: How many arms does the Sun have?
    My current interpretation, subject to change, is: He has two solid meat-and-bone arms, and nine hundred and ninety-eight shining golden sunlight-arms floating around in his anima.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2008

    Default Re: Titans of the Mythos Subsystem

    Quote Originally Posted by Xefas View Post
    He-Who-Became-Tharizdun
    Tharizdun-Who-Was? Love that guy. My prospective Olethrofex is/was the current ex-mortal incarnation of one of his higher souls.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Primal Fury's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    In the heart of the beast
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Titans of the Mythos Subsystem

    I wonder... You mentioned here that, with the addition of these feats, there MIGHT be a way to combine the Mythos of two different Titans. Does this mean that the Mythos grant by the bloodline feats can be used to create more Mythos when paired with their own Titan? Could Mythic Reth Dekala Mythos and Jaganntha Mythos be used to create whole new trees of them?
    My Homebrew



  15. - Top - End - #15
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Tacitus's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Sin City
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Titans of the Mythos Subsystem

    Was this that boar? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...Isidorable.gif

    So, while reading through this last night I was obviously trying to fit my Occasus into the picture, and I think it became a Titan backwards? Or partially, at least. Xefas, please let me know how off the mark my mad ramblings might be.

    Spoiler: Mad Ramblings
    Show
    I believe The Craven King was an Anthol with broken heritage, pulling from protection and eventually madness. The lucid Craven King remains forever trapped in the winding corridors of madness and steel and flesh that is the Stage that was once his personal Fortress of Regrets and is now a place only in fevered dreams. He is trapped as a the Principle and Thesis, his body and dream/astral self both wandering the fortress. One is a wild experiment, a masterpiece of the greatest alloys and engineering to protect itself and others. The other is a skittering madman that both fears and idolizes the body, the fortress, and everything else. It wants to continuously improve the fortress and the original body of the Craven King but is afraid he might mar the perfection already in place.
    Probably from here is where the Theme grew. Dreamers touched upon the Fortress and the tale continued even when memories of the Craven King started to fade. Dreams that instill a fear of death, a fear of too few precautions against harm, even twisted dreams where flying becomes unstoppable falling.

    New Anthols of this Kishin are relations of the poor souls dragged into the space between reality and dream where the Fortress was taken by the Craven King. They carry the same blood, they are family to the Craven King, and he will protect them at all costs. Hereditary mental disorders and cases of what we would know as OCD and Manic Depression can be early signs. One famous Occasus awakened to the Kishin when in the throes of mania he scrubbed the skin clean from his body and managed to survive replacing it with iron.
    Never can find my towel...

    So it goes.

    GNU Terry Pratchett
    Forgot who did my avatar, sorry! >.<

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Primal Fury's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    In the heart of the beast
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Titans of the Mythos Subsystem

    Dreams huh? Now here's something I've been thinking about for a while. I was thinking about how mortals might become Anthols, and that they do so through the Moon's will. Why would the gods, Lawgivers, or Primordials want mortals to become Anthols? They'd most likely want to create their own, so that they might remain loyal. What if it was the Moon who allowed for this to happen? She looked at the design for mortals and said "You know what? This is boring. I'm gonna make them better." So while the others were off creating mortals, she was stealing pieces of the gods and throwing them into the soup. Now we have Anthols runnin' around willy nilly, and no one is willing to fix it because it would involve annihilating every single mortal and starting over from scratch.

    Well?
    My Homebrew



  17. - Top - End - #17
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2007

    Default Re: Titans of the Mythos Subsystem

    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Fury View Post
    Does this mean that the Mythos grant by the bloodline feats can be used to create more Mythos when paired with their own Titan? Could Mythic Reth Dekala Mythos and Jaganntha Mythos be used to create whole new trees of them?
    Uh, you might have to explain a little bit more. I'm not sure what you're getting at.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tacitus View Post
    That is, in fact, the boar we speak of.

    So, while reading through this last night I was obviously trying to fit my Occasus into the picture, and I think it became a Titan backwards? Or partially, at least. Xefas, please let me know how off the mark my mad ramblings might be.

    Spoiler: Mad Ramblings
    Show
    I believe The Craven King was an Anthol with broken heritage, pulling from protection and eventually madness. The lucid Craven King remains forever trapped in the winding corridors of madness and steel and flesh that is the Stage that was once his personal Fortress of Regrets and is now a place only in fevered dreams. He is trapped as a the Principle and Thesis, his body and dream/astral self both wandering the fortress. One is a wild experiment, a masterpiece of the greatest alloys and engineering to protect itself and others. The other is a skittering madman that both fears and idolizes the body, the fortress, and everything else. It wants to continuously improve the fortress and the original body of the Craven King but is afraid he might mar the perfection already in place.
    Probably from here is where the Theme grew. Dreamers touched upon the Fortress and the tale continued even when memories of the Craven King started to fade. Dreams that instill a fear of death, a fear of too few precautions against harm, even twisted dreams where flying becomes unstoppable falling.

    New Anthols of this Kishin are relations of the poor souls dragged into the space between reality and dream where the Fortress was taken by the Craven King. They carry the same blood, they are family to the Craven King, and he will protect them at all costs. Hereditary mental disorders and cases of what we would know as OCD and Manic Depression can be early signs. One famous Occasus awakened to the Kishin when in the throes of mania he scrubbed the skin clean from his body and managed to survive replacing it with iron.
    It all sounds good, but I'm not sure why it has to start as an Anthol. Is there some facet of the Craven King that does not work if he's just a Titan born from stories of insanity and fear, as all Titans are born from gathered stories? Must he evolve from an unrelated state of existence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Fury View Post
    Well?
    I prefer to keep the spread of Mythos a purely accidental thing. Although, you did remind me of what I did with that Moon/Mutation story. I seem to have cut part of it out, but the other part I rolled into the Mythic Lycanthrope introduction (which is very close to done) and promptly forgot about it.

    Here's the intro. Hopefully I can post the whole thing soon.

    Spoiler
    Show

    In days long past, the Titan, Mutation, presided over a writhing world of rapid growth and decay which held no greater significance than to languish in the thrill of life and change. In the putrid, bacterial waters of her many oceans and mires, her savage, numberless souls constantly fed upon one another, evolving again and again with each kill and each meal, spinning for themselves new advantages from the flesh of their body, changing themselves into strange and deadly arrays optimized for further dominance and consumption, until they too, must meet their end, and their new beginning, as the meal of a stronger predator, and the material by which further evolution could take place.

    As a planet inhabited solely by staggering billions of apex predators, Mutation presented one of the greatest challenges for the Divine Host when they sought to take the chaotic void of the Titans for themselves - a challenge delegated to the one among the Lawgivers that they feared most, not their most powerful champion, in the form of the Sun, but to the one whose truthless nature allowed her to darken the Sun's unstoppable light, to melt his unbreakable heart, and to turn aside his unimpeachable valor. The Moon was never the smartest god, but she approached her problems from angles that greater minds had never even considered, she was not the strongest, but her victory conditions rarely required her to be, and rarely aligned with her opponent's.

    The whole story of how she defeated Mutation is one for another time. But suffice it to say that the legend goes that, in their final confrontation, Mutation's true form revealed itself to be a titanic serpentine horror, bristling with the mouths of all the hungry souls she had cannibalized from herself in the pursuit of change. The Moon fought as well as she could, only to be slain and consumed, subsumed into Mutation's body. From there, the primal goddess was torn apart and her essence replicated, in order to feed the Titan's next evolution. But her essence didn't stop replicating. It kept growing and growing, sprouting like a cancer throughout Mutation's body, immune to retaliation, as the Titan's legend had already accepted her as a part of itself, until the Moon finally metastasized to Mutation's heart, and devoured it from the inside.

    This was the ingenuity that the Moon wished to instill in her children, as the other gods gleefully sowed their creations all throughout their conquered multiverse. But those gods, even the other Lawgivers, feared what she might create if she were given complete freedom to do as she willed, and so they made a pact with her, paying some terrible price in exchange for her restraint in the crafting of the Wheel and its inhabitants.

    They would find out too late that she did not consider the alteration of pre-existing creatures as being synonymous with creating wholly new ones. With a wry smirk, she misted the core of their new cosmos, the Prime Material Plane, with blood from Mutation's trapped heart, gifting all that would be born there with a heavily diluted version of the Titan's evolution - over time, things would change from the Gods' design, life would sprout where it should not, it would adapt to live where it should not, and it would surprise the Gods when it should not. The more cautious among the Divine Host reeled with fury or distaste at her disregard for the perfect order they envisioned, but not a single one dared imply that the Moon had broken her word.

    In the millennia since, many strange quirks and derivations of the lifeforms made by the Gods have arisen as a result of the Moon's actions. Lycanthropy is one of them. But, the primordial origin of the cursed disease offers a unique opportunity for creatures endowed with a mythic narrative - by giving their legend fangs, they may call to the blood of Mutation in the Lycanthropic curse, and devour it, making Lycanthropy a part of their story, and a part of themselves in a deeply intimate fashion, creating hybridized monsters greater than any common were-beast.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Primal Fury's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    In the heart of the beast
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Titans of the Mythos Subsystem

    Quote Originally Posted by Xefas View Post
    Uh, you might have to explain a little bit more. I'm not sure what you're getting at.
    Well... The Reth Dekala fled to the Demon City and became his scions, learning his Mythos. The Jaganntha are Anthols that have touched more deeply upon his story. Can a Jaganntha with the Emerald Prince Legacy feat combine these two to create Mythos exclusive to those who have both?

    Heaven-Scorching Sunfire Projection + [Unnamed Jaganntha Mythos] = New Demon King Mythos

    Could that work?

    And... Hm... This is becoming a problem. The more I write and read about the Moon, the less she sounds like a Dreamweaver, and the more she sounds like a Trickster. I'm not sure what to do with this new information. She should still be a shapeshifter, obviously, but dreamweaving is beginning to make less and less sense to me.

    I hate it when this happens, but maybe I should keep writing and allow her to grow in my mind organically, rather than trying to force her into a hole she doesn't want to fit into.

    That's not to say that her feats couldn't be defined as dreamweaving, but they sound more like... breaking the rules on a fundamental level, as tricksters are known to do. But that's what those who can dream things into reality do as well. But... Hrrrrm. This is REALLY aggravating.
    Last edited by Primal Fury; 2014-04-12 at 10:18 PM.
    My Homebrew



  19. - Top - End - #19
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2007

    Default Re: Titans of the Mythos Subsystem

    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Fury View Post
    Well... The Reth Dekala fled to the Demon City and became his scions, learning his Mythos. The Jaganntha are Anthols that have touched more deeply upon his story. Can a Jaganntha with the Emerald Prince Legacy feat combine these two to create Mythos exclusive to those who have both?

    Heaven-Scorching Sunfire Projection + [Unnamed Jaganntha Mythos] = New Demon King Mythos

    Could that work?
    Ah, I see. That's an interesting idea. It seems like quite a situational thing - I doubt I'll devote much time to tinkering with the concept until I've hammered out a few more classes - but it's an interesting idea to explore when the time comes.

    That's not to say that her feats couldn't be defined as dreamweaving, but they sound more like... breaking the rules on a fundamental level, as tricksters are known to do. But that's what those who can dream things into reality do as well. But... Hrrrrm. This is REALLY aggravating.
    I quite like the dream bit. I don't see why she can't do tricky things and also do stuff with dreams? I'm honestly not sure how dreams normally work in the Great Wheel, but maybe if you wrote a little something about the Moon that related to them, it would help you flesh out exactly why they belong together.
    Last edited by Xefas; 2014-04-12 at 10:43 PM.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Tacitus's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Sin City
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Titans of the Mythos Subsystem

    Quote Originally Posted by Xefas
    It all sounds good, but I'm not sure why it has to start as an Anthol. Is there some facet of the Craven King that does not work if he's just a Titan born from stories of insanity and fear, as all Titans are born from gathered stories? Must he evolve from an unrelated state of existence?
    Maybe? Part of it is that I can't really see a notable Titan coming to light with the sort of mixed purpose originally and the other part is that the fall of the Craven King into madness draws inspiration from Exalted's Great Curse on Solar Exalted, which if translated I would believe occurs after or at the same time that the Great Wheel is constructed. Maybe a Premise of Healing under Protection taking in parts of Madness as the curse takes hold? I think part of it is the struggle inherent to the Occasus that balances the two halves of Practical and Manic that makes the difference. If you could be all Practical or all Manic, you'd be an Anthol of Protection or Madness and not an Occasus and the origin of the Kishin (the overarching Titan for the Craven King, the Fortress of Regrets, and The Mania) is manifest from this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Fury
    I hate it when this happens, but maybe I should keep writing and allow her to grow in my mind organically, rather than trying to force her into a hole she doesn't want to fit into.
    Heh, my Occasus is suffering/prospering from much the same thing. I started with Mythic Healer and its grown somewhere a little unexpected. Most of it has just been presenting bits to ya'll, honestly. It grows the most when I discuss it with others.
    Last edited by Tacitus; 2014-04-12 at 10:54 PM.
    Never can find my towel...

    So it goes.

    GNU Terry Pratchett
    Forgot who did my avatar, sorry! >.<

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Primal Fury's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    In the heart of the beast
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Titans of the Mythos Subsystem

    Quote Originally Posted by Xefas View Post
    I quite like the dream bit. I don't see why she can't do tricky things and also do stuff with dreams? I'm honestly not sure how dreams normally work in the Great Wheel, but maybe if you wrote a little something about the Moon that related to them, it would help you flesh out exactly why they belong together.
    Yeah... yeah. That's what I need to do. Better get to work.
    My Homebrew



  22. - Top - End - #22
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Primal Fury's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    In the heart of the beast
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Titans of the Mythos Subsystem

    Okay wait... Mutation got killed my Moon Cancer, right? She was part of her, and got killed from the inside out. Does this mean that Mutation is part of the Moon's legend now, changing her Mythos? And if so, just how deep does this run?
    My Homebrew



  23. - Top - End - #23
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2007

    Default Re: Titans of the Mythos Subsystem

    Quote Originally Posted by Tacitus View Post
    Maybe? Part of it is that I can't really see a notable Titan coming to light with the sort of mixed purpose originally...
    The Titans are stories. Sometimes stories involve characters that are insane. Sometimes the author is a nutjob. Sometimes the story itself is crazy. If you can tell a story about it, it is not outside the realm of possibility that there could be a Titan who represents it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Fury View Post
    Okay wait... Mutation got killed my Moon Cancer, right? She was part of her, and got killed from the inside out. Does this mean that Mutation is part of the Moon's legend now, changing her Mythos? And if so, just how deep does this run?
    Uh, maybe?

    So, to give a pre-existing example - the Monster declared during the war that he would eat the Sun. He failed to do so. If a Teramach eats the Sun, or the sun constructed in the Prime Material Plane which acts as an icon so synonymous with the 'real' Sun that even most Gods believe them to be one and the same, not only does he unlock effectively a whole new Exalted Mythos (right now, it's technically a manifestation, but I have some revisions and additions planned for the class in the near future; the way it works may change slightly), but he also gains access to an Epic Prestige Class, the Holocaust Sun, which has its own Mythos, separate from the Monster. He may now gain Holocaust Sun Sempiternal Mythos which are about his story, or <Sempiternal Monster Mythos, but not Sempiternal Monster Mythos. The character grew up as a replica of the Monster, to an effectively adolescent Titanic state, then diverged, becoming something with the same roots, but a different destination.

    Now, it's a bit different for a mortal Anthol, growing into the Mythos of a pre-existing entity, than it is for a fully-grown entity forging and shaping their own Mythos for the first time. But the situation may have been similar. By killing Mutation, she may have unlocked a second path to choose from. If she chose to take some options from killing Mutation, she may have lost other options in exchange.

    If I ever make a Titan or Lawgiver racial class, it'll be another headache to mull over, for sure.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Primal Fury's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    In the heart of the beast
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Titans of the Mythos Subsystem

    Quote Originally Posted by Xefas View Post
    Uh, maybe?
    Interesting. So it was merely the declaration that allowed the Monster the Mythos.

    Alright, a couple things: Would you mind being more specific with the Monster's "condensed soul structure"? In my fiction, I have one of his (does the Monster have a definitive gender?) souls as being integral to the creation of Penia, and I plan on referencing it in her mythos. Would that make sense considering this soul structure?

    Next thing: Why should the Moon have to choose? One thing I liked about Luna was that she was a conglomeration of countless other moon spirits. What if the same could be done here? Once you get to Exalted and above with her Mythos, you might be able to become an entirely different character. You'd have the same class of course, but different skill ranks, alignment, and Mythos choices. How does that sound?
    My Homebrew



  25. - Top - End - #25
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2007

    Default Re: Titans of the Mythos Subsystem

    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Fury View Post
    Alright, a couple things: Would you mind being more specific with the Monster's "condensed soul structure"? In my fiction, I have one of his (does the Monster have a definitive gender?) souls as being integral to the creation of Penia, and I plan on referencing it in her mythos. Would that make sense considering this soul structure?
    The Monster has trouble creating physical things. He was capable of birthing his Heart into the world, and growing a Stage (ramshackle as it is), but extruding Premises and Notions would be too much strain on his nature. So, instead, he worked out a trick whereby, when he would crash down upon another Titan's planet, those Notions of theirs that survived the carnage would be haunted by it, mentally and spiritually crippled. Some would lie down and waste away, others preferred more direct suicide, but others would embrace the insanity and go to join the Monster and become part of him. In this way, the Monster's brothers and sisters allowed his incomplete spirit to cannibalize pieces of their own in order to become whole.

    Only after the Monster was incorporated into the Great Wheel was this process adapted to work on mortals in the form of Humanity-Reaving Psychosis Echo. Cannibalized Notions do not gain Mythos or Teramach levels like the Reavers created by that Mythos (as Notions are incapable of learning Mythos); they are transformed into new monstrous shapes that more effectively represent their inner damages. Some rare few of those transformed Notions grow to become larger and more powerful than it should be possible for a Notion to become, and these mutants fill a role as something like the Monster's Premises (not unlike an Orc Warboss for those familiar with Warhammer lore). However, they cannot create Notions of their own, as a Premise would (though they might feel an attachment to those Notions they personally drive insane and bring into the Monster's story), and as far as the hierarchies of other Titans are concerned, they are still Notions, and are not afforded the kind of respect and adoration a Premise would have.

    Next thing: Why should the Moon have to choose? One thing I liked about Luna was that she was a conglomeration of countless other moon spirits. What if the same could be done here? Once you get to Exalted and above with her Mythos, you might be able to become an entirely different character. You'd have the same class of course, but different skill ranks, alignment, and Mythos choices. How does that sound?
    You might have to give me an example.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Primal Fury's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    In the heart of the beast
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Titans of the Mythos Subsystem

    Quote Originally Posted by Xefas View Post
    In this way, the Monster's brothers and sisters allowed his incomplete spirit to cannibalize pieces of their own in order to become whole.
    Okay. Why? But yeah, I can see that it might make sense for another corrupted Premise might be used to reach this end. Thanks for the explanation.

    You might have to give me an example.
    Well, in Luna's Glory to the Most High, it tells us about some of the other moon spirits she needed to defeat and devour. What if the Moon of the Great Wheel met other selves during her travels in the Far Realm? Time doesn't flow in any particular direction there, and it makes sense that she might do the same. It also stands to reason that these other selves might not have made the same decisions. She might have stayed there, and carved out her own little kingdom as Xoriat, the Seething Chaos. What if she found other Titans unknown to the Empyrean, and became the guardian of their world as Lilith, the Black Sun. But due to the nature of the Omphalos, she is the... um... "realest" of all of them, it gives her a certain amount of influence over the others. And... and...

    Oh my god. That makes less and less sense the more I type. Nevermind. Jeez.
    My Homebrew



  27. - Top - End - #27
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2007

    Default Re: Titans of the Mythos Subsystem

    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Fury View Post
    Okay. Why?
    Not all art needs to be happy. Sometimes, the art that causes us pain is the one we find most meaningful. To not allow the Monster to do as his nature dictates, to restrict him, to tell him to deny what he is, to censor the story he tells simply because it makes them uncomfortable, would be an unthinkable travesty to the Titans. Keeping in mind that their perspective is not the same as those that came after them.

    To try to make it relatable, imagine if some extremist group in our world decided that they needed to destroy all works of art, whether written, visual, musical, and so on, that depicted or alluded to violent acts, simply because a character in the narrative is suffering as a result. Everything from holy texts to Pulp Fiction just, whoosh, gone. That would be kinda insane, right? That's how the Titans would feel about someone wanting to stop the Monster from eating their Notions. Notions, to them, are more like characters, ideas, and feelings than people. The Monster hurts their feelings in the same way that a work of art intended to cause indignance or outrage hurts our feelings. It's uncomfortable, maybe distasteful, but that doesn't mean it needs to be censored or burnt.

    The blue and orange morality comes in with the uncertainty of whether Notions are, themselves, sapient people, real enough to have rights and dignity. From a Titan's perspective, any other answer than "What? No." is unthinkable; the equivalent of reading a Harry Potter book and having the characters claim to exist and you believing them and treating them as such. It's just... "What? No. How would that even work?" From a mortal perspective, a mortal can interact with an individual Notion, and experience its complex thoughts and nuanced personality, and come to the conclusion that they deserve to be treated as people. There's no easy answer to that.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Primal Fury's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    In the heart of the beast
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Titans of the Mythos Subsystem

    Quote Originally Posted by Xefas View Post
    Not all art needs to be happy. Sometimes, the art that causes us pain is the one we find most meaningful. To not allow the Monster to do as his nature dictates, to restrict him, to tell him to deny what he is, to censor the story he tells simply because it makes them uncomfortable, would be an unthinkable travesty to the Titans. Keeping in mind that their perspective is not the same as those that came after them.
    Oh. That makes perfect sense. I still haven't entirely let go of the Primordials just yet, and seeing them going "Here, eat me" seems completely crazy. But Titans are not Primordials, are they?
    My Homebrew



  29. - Top - End - #29
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Planetar

    Join Date
    Mar 2014

    Default Re: Titans of the Mythos Subsystem

    How do we handle Mythos from another class which reference or build on that class' unique mechanic?

    For random example, taking in some of Anakitos' mythos, how would you deal with Fetters of Virtue mechanics? Skip mythos that mention them, or do you gain that mechanic?
    Last edited by Dimmet; 2016-03-29 at 03:56 AM.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2007

    Default Re: Titans of the Mythos Subsystem

    Quote Originally Posted by Dimmet View Post
    How do we handle Mythos from another class which reference or build on that class' unique mechanic?

    For random example, taking in some of Anakitos' mythos, how would you deal with Fetters of Virtue mechanics? Skip mythos that mention them, or do you gain that mechanic?
    I never explained this very well, but the idea is that if a Mythos requires a class feature to be used (such as Monstrous Rage or the Fetters of Virtue), a character with that Mythos essentially has that class feature as well. The Mythos system does need a little renovating, and one such thing to be changed would be turning those purely explanatory class features into "sidebars" rather than them being class features at all.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •