DMing challenge.

[Tegu8788]

So, I've had this idea in the back of my head since right before the site went down, and I'd like yall's input. I've had a lot of fun playing in a couple games, a number of one offs, and I know a number of us are eager to try things out, but may be hesitant to do so with a gaming group.

My idea, is that some group of us, mostly DMs but pure players welcome, team up, make some basic characters, and throw ourselves against the DM of the moment's fight. Maybe run it two or three times to refine things, then switch to another DM in the group, and see how we fare against that. This way, we can test out ideas and homebrew monsters in a "safe" environment before exposing our long term players to them. I recently discovered just how disastrous it can be to give magic missile to a couple NPCs.

We can test our fights before they need to be fought, we can test terrain tricks, we can test out character builds quick and easy, and if we establish a "standard" fight we can test homebrew effectiveness. Another thread has brought up the idea of 4E wargaming, and I for one think that could be an interesting Minion Master, just scaling monsters up as you go.


Anybody with me?

[Kimera757]

So, I've had this idea in the back of my head since right before the site went down, and I'd like yall's input. I've had a lot of fun playing in a couple games, a number of one offs, and I know a number of us are eager to try things out, but may be hesitant to do so with a gaming group.

My idea, is that some group of us, mostly DMs but pure players welcome, team up, make some basic characters, and throw ourselves against the DM of the moment's fight. Maybe run it two or three times to refine things, then switch to another DM in the group, and see how we fare against that. This way, we can test out ideas and homebrew monsters in a "safe" environment before exposing our long term players to them. I recently discovered just how disastrous it can be to give magic missile to a couple NPCs.

We can test our fights before they need to be fought, we can test terrain tricks, we can test out character builds quick and easy, and if we establish a "standard" fight we can test homebrew effectiveness. Another thread has brought up the idea of 4E wargaming, and I for one think that could be an interesting Minion Master, just scaling monsters up as you go.


Anybody with me?

This sounds interesting. I'm crushed by work for another month though. Is there a way to post PDFs here, so we could upload homebrewed monsters?

[Tegu8788]

Not that I am aware of, but the new forums may have some new tricks. Unless you could load it as an image you could insert.

[Inevitability]

Me and the new forums aren't getting on very well...
Lack of a 'colored text' or 'roll' button are things that should've been there.

[Laserlight]

My idea, is that some group of us, mostly DMs but pure players welcome, team up, make some basic characters, and throw ourselves against the DM of the moment's fight. Maybe run it two or three times to refine things, then switch to another DM in the group, and see how we fare against that.

Are you thinking to do this as a Play by Post thing? Because those are quite slow. I'm in a game which has been running since early December and we're finishing the first day, third fight.

I would suggest something like "Here's the list of player characters in the Standard Party; after each DM turn, whoever posts it first gets a Party turn." That ignores the initiative countdown but you should be able to say things like "Alice will maneuver and charge one of the casters, Bob will use dragonbreath and then his daily on group around him, if they're still up Claudia will drop her AoE on them, Dani will heal if anyone needs it or send her spirit cat to help Alice get CA, Ed will Twin Strike but you knew that." Then the DM resolves that and posts the results and the next turn for Team Monster.

[GPuzzle]

Uhm. Interesting. I like DM'ing, I like testing out new builds, this should be fun.

Which levels are we aiming at?

[Nightgaun7]

Are you thinking to do this as a Play by Post thing? Because those are quite slow. I'm in a game which has been running since early December and we're finishing the first day, third fight.

I would suggest something like "Here's the list of player characters in the Standard Party; after each DM turn, whoever posts it first gets a Party turn." That ignores the initiative countdown but you should be able to say things like "Alice will maneuver and charge one of the casters, Bob will use dragonbreath and then his daily on group around him, if they're still up Claudia will drop her AoE on them, Dani will heal if anyone needs it or send her spirit cat to help Alice get CA, Ed will Twin Strike but you knew that." Then the DM resolves that and posts the results and the next turn for Team Monster.

As the GM who's running the game Laserlight mentioned, we've been posting at a pretty good rate compared to a lot of games I've seen, and it's still taking forever. No criticism of the group, just the nature of forum games. But what it implies for this is that if you want to test something for your real life group, it had better be something a year away. The other option, which I would be more interested in both playing and running, are skype/roll20/whatever sessions.

[Tegu8788]

Play by post does take some time, but there are ways around it. I've done a few pvp games, and the rule was post in 24 hours or get skipped. If you aren't worried about character development or survivability as much, people can move faster. We would normally get through 4-6 rounds of combat in a week, week and a half. Live scenarios on Roll20 are obviously better, but not always feasible. And nothing stops us from doing more than one thing at a time. A group of 6 could rotate simultaneously, letting us move quickly. In my mind, these are straight up, just fights, or a series of traps. Crunch that needs to be worked through.

[Nightgaun7]

Play by post does take some time, but there are ways around it. I've done a few pvp games, and the rule was post in 24 hours or get skipped. If you aren't worried about character development or survivability as much, people can move faster. We would normally get through 4-6 rounds of combat in a week, week and a half. Live scenarios on Roll20 are obviously better, but not always feasible. And nothing stops us from doing more than one thing at a time. A group of 6 could rotate simultaneously, letting us move quickly. In my mind, these are straight up, just fights, or a series of traps. Crunch that needs to be worked through.

True enough.

The other thing is that parties often work together better as they get used to each other, so this would probably lack that and as such throw off the results. Mitigated to some extent, I suppose, by it being a cadre of people who are reasonably knowledgeable.

[Tegu8788]

Yes, another reason I think getting a few practice rounds before getting really creative. A standard party trying out a few things should make it easier to get going quickly.

[GPuzzle]

Well, this could be a DM-and-players challenge. A group signs up, a DM signs up, and the group has, say, one week to make a party build, such as a Thunder Mafia or an Avenger hit-squad.

I know, this is silly, but just an idea I thought.

[Tegu8788]

That could work, and I figure there would be a certain amount of ins and outs as people get busy, but if possible I'd rather get a bit of a "core" group. This has gotten a decent amount of interest. Would you guys be interested in trying it out?

[GPuzzle]

Yeah, we can try to do so. The "Core" group seems to be you (Tegu8788), me, Nightgaun7, Dire_Stirge and Kimera757, but Laserlight showed interest, and other people might show up too.

Besides, I have a Switch-Leader build to test out (Killswitch, Flameswitch, Chordswitch...), so we might see what will happen in it.

[Tegu8788]

Before we try out homebrew I suggest we test out a baseline first. Make a standard, RAW, mid-op party, and see how it fares against a balanced encounter. Crunch some numbers. And once we have a baseline, then we can try out our own stuff. I am curious to see how this Switchleader works.

Edit: I also think, in terms of fairness and balance, if you wanna test out your homebrew, you run the game. That way you also get player feedback.

[Nightgaun7]

Before we try out homebrew I suggest we test out a baseline first. Make a standard, RAW, mid-op party, and see how it fares against a balanced encounter. Crunch some numbers. And once we have a baseline, then we can try out our own stuff. I am curious to see how this Switchleader works.

Edit: I also think, in terms of fairness and balance, if you wanna test out your homebrew, you run the game. That way you also get player feedback.

I don't think the Switchleader is homebrew, just a general build concept.

I would like to start testing homebrew at some point, but I agree that we should do some normal-ish stuff first.

I have quite a few builds I'd like to try - Pallock, Bard, Swordmage, Druid...

[Tegu8788]

What do people think of a mid-op team: Paladin, Druid, Scout, Artificer, Sorcerer? Somebody got a better combo in mind that covers the basics?

[GPuzzle]

Yeah, that looks good. Which level are we going to play?

[Nightgaun7]

What do people think of a mid-op team: Paladin, Druid, Scout, Artificer, Sorcerer? Somebody got a better combo in mind that covers the basics?

I'd actually prefer to give the Avenger a spin first, since I'm working on a fix for it it would be helpful to have experience with it as it is.

[Tegu8788]

Alright, swap the Scout and Sorcerer for an Avenger and Monk? Run a game with standard Avenger, then try out the modified class?

[GPuzzle]

Requesting the switch from Paladin to Knight - I want to try out an old build of mine.

[Tegu8788]

Ok, Knight, Avenger, Monk, Bard, and Invoker. Got roles covered, stats covered, ranges covered. Why don't start off low, lvl 3? That gives enough options to make things interesting and see some combos set up, but still easy enough to run through quickly. No items for now, maybe we can add them in later. Anybody got a solid fight they want to run again?

[GPuzzle]

Oh, okay, if we're shooting to level 3, I'm changing it to Paladin again. Thought it'd be early paragon, but no.

[Nightgaun7]

Ok, Knight, Avenger, Monk, Bard, and Invoker. Got roles covered, stats covered, ranges covered. Why don't start off low, lvl 3? That gives enough options to make things interesting and see some combos set up, but still easy enough to run through quickly. No items for now, maybe we can add them in later. Anybody got a solid fight they want to run again?

I would vote for at least 5 or 7.

[Tegu8788]

I'd be happy to play whatever level, but I can't promise a good Paragon lvl fight. If someone else wants to take the first round we can do whatever they like. But since I am somewhat spearheading this, I figured I ought to lead the first fight. But if someone else wanted to, I'm not gonna stop them.

[Gavran]

Given my interest in Nightgaun7's Avenger thoughts, I could run a character in PbP tests. Can probably work with whatever.

[Tegu8788]

There is a gdoc I've seen in a number of games I've played in. I'll see if I can get a copy, it speeds up combat by a great deal.

[GPuzzle]

I believe it is a tracking system that all players write down their HP and stuff, and the DM writes the monster's stuff.

[Gavran]

If you're referring to Meltheim's, copy away.

[Tegu8788]

I was, and I have, will post my link when I'm done with rehearsals.

Edit: Home now, and linking.

[Inevitability]

Sorry, but this is progressing way to fast for me. I'm sorry, but I'll have to drop out.