How do you set up your loot?

[drewdp]

I'm curious How other DM's create loot, as i'm still a pretty new DM. There are several questions here.

First, If I use the DMG for a level x NPC, it suggests what kind of loot and gold the npc has on hand. Example: level 2 rogue has mwk melee, mwk ranged, mwk studded leather, and 1,200 gp.
now if my party fights that Rogue and kills it.. it was a CR of 2 right. Which gives out 600gp. Except that rogue had more than 600gp on it. So how do you guys handle that? Even if i strip all the gold the mwk items can be sold for ~450gp. (worth 900gp)

Second, How valuable should the items I give out be? do I limit a single items value to 1/4 the total loot in the dungeon (assuming 4 person party)
Say a level 2 party fights through five CR2 encounters worth 600gp each. That could potentially mean they find a single magical item worth 3,000 gp.
(maybe they raided a tomb full of zombies for the magical item that is buried there)
Anyway, Isn't a 3,000gp magical item too overpowered for any person in a level 2 party. Would it be more balanced if the party only finds items up to 750gp in worth (1/4 the overall loot). [I actually just thought of the 1/4 overall loot idea while writing this question]
I'm not saying i'd design a dungeon with only 1 item of worth in it, but i hope you guys get what i'm trying to ask here. Just a rule of thumb or advice on how to place magical items etc. for looting purposes.

Also, my campaign is not low magic or anything. It pretty much follows gp limits for availability of anything in any town.

[HighWater]

- Wait, what sorcerer? You mentioned a Rogue, no sorcerer is walking around with those items as they do him more harm than good.

- NPC's score high on the "average encounter treasure" table. So do dragons. Offset by having the PCs also fight stuff that doesn't carry any notable treasure with it (animals and other simple opponents) or giving them nasty non-combat encounters that encourage them to think. (A rivercrossing that doesn't feature a bridge and does feature wild waters and pointy rocks is still a nice encounter that'd entitle them to some xp (but gp makes no sense). The 300gp per 300xp per CR rule doesn't apply to every single encounter individually, it's supposed to be an average over several encounters.

- Expensive items can make for interesting loot. Whether an item is Overpowered at level 2 just because it is expensive is entirely up to the item in question. In my current running campaign, I dropped an item that was worth 1600gp just before the party became level 2. It never broke the balance as all it did was boost UMD a bit. As a matter of fact, a 700gp item I dropped when the party was level 3 and nearing 4 was much more unbalancing!

[fishyfishyfishy]

Not all encounters should give out loot. The average treasure per encounter takes this into consideration. While the npc has a little extra treasure on him, this should be balanced with another encounter with some wolves or something else that doesn't give treasure. Also, feel free to convert treasure a npc carries into consumables that they use prior to, and during, any combat scenario. Potions work well for this. This is a way you can make a fight a little more interesting and provide a little less loot.

[lytokk]

I used to use the DMG for random treasure, but once I got the MIC I started using it. Normally if I roll out an armor or weapon no one in the party would use, I make a few additional rolls to change it to one that someone in the party would use. Other than that, I hand out tailored treasure at certain points for story awards.

[drewdp]

- Wait, what sorcerer? You mentioned a Rogue, no sorcerer is walking around with those items as they do him more harm than good.

oops, i originally wrote sorcerer.. then realized the example would be better with a melee class and changed it.. guess i missed one...


also, what was the 700gp item that unbalanced?

[BWR]

Since I run a lot of old BECMI modules in Pathfinder, I'll take whatever loot is there, divide by 10 or 20, then give it out. Sometimes I'll alter a few items to include d20 specific items like ability score enhancers.
When making things from scratch it depends. First I think about how much wealth the party has now and how much I feel I want them to have. Players tend to want a lot more than DMs want to give them. Then I tailor encounters around this, and it's important to remember that if you give your encounters lots of gear or wealth, the PCs will likely end up with it afterwards. If you don't want PCs to get a lot of wealth, don't give them a lot.
I have a DM who generally likes us pretty wussy and is a bad enough tactician and optimizer that he at some points made bull**** statements like "all the loot you find looks too ugly so you refuse to use it" or "it looks evil so you refuse to use it" or "or it looks too barbaric and you refuse to use it" or "the magic items are specially made to disenchant upon death of the wielder" or "the magic items teleport away upon death of the wielder", or "sorry, these magical items don't resize" or "this armor is designed for hobgoblins not dwarves, so it won't fit". Not only could we not use this stuff we can't even sell it and get money for it.
Needless to say we were quite upset with this and forced him to mend his ways.

After I have decided how much I want the PCs to get, I'll usually give some items that are appropriate for the opposition. Wizards won't have magical armor, fighers won't have spellbooks etc,
Sometimes I'll roll random treasure, especially if whatever beast I'm throwing at the PCs probably just collects stuff from victims rather than buying and selling.

[Fooliscious]

There are some neat treasure generators online that you can add all sorts of caveats, restrictions, encounter levels etc. They usually do scrolls and art and the like, huge time saver. If something pops up that's particularly useless, or the entire set just seems unfun, I reroll til I get something I like.

I've used this before a bunch of times. http://donjon.bin.sh/d20/treasure/

[HighWater]

oops, i originally wrote sorcerer.. then realized the example would be better with a melee class and changed it.. guess i missed one...


also, what was the 700gp item that unbalanced?

No sweat. Sorcerers are more awesome anyhow.

As for the item: it's a low op campaign, so bear that in mind...
An Amber Amulet of Vermin (Giant Praying Mantis, magic item compendium), it didn't break the very challenging encounter (because PC actions turned it into a threeway fight instead of two two-way fights, plus they split the party so the cleric and ranger were pretty beat up by the time it got serious). It incapacitated an enlarge personned level4 cleric, the most important threat on one of the sides, by grappling him, and wriggling loose cost him a lot of time, as well as needing that side to focus on bugcrushing to prevent it from happening again. Thank god the third party kept most of the PC's occupied.

I miscalculated its melee impact: it has a good to hit, but the damage wasn't shocking so I thought it was okay. I underestimated it getting a -free- grapple check on a hit, which combined with its nice grapple modifier (+11) made it considerably more useful in that melee than any PC. Good thing there is no dedicated melee dude in the party. Still strongly considering nerfing it from 1/day to 1/week as I've come to understand that it was originally a single-use item with the same price.. They haven't used it again (only 1 day has passed since), but I estimate it's still a lot like having an extra PC that gets to act immediately and appears precisely where he's needed for the price of 1 standard action and 700gp.

[frostravenstorm]

page 52 of the DMG is usually satisfactory for me. The treasure tables provided there provide variation. those 1200 gp might be in art, or gems, as is displayed in treasure tables. the treasure tables prevent characters from obtaining anything godly, but still let them have fun. if you want a rule of thumb, here it is - use the treasure tables, unless you need to introduce an item for the campaign, and in that case, subtract the value of that item off of the table. this does require some abstraction, and usually rolling beforehand.

[Curmudgeon]

Most of the treasure your PCs find should be what's on the bodies of their enemies. Accordingly, just figure out the individual wealth of each enemy and kit them up with the gear that would be useful to them. That would mean weapons, armor, wands, and potions that they can (or intend to) use to try to stay alive. It's pretty ludicrous to find a bunch of combatants using mundane weapons and armor (and losing) when there's a bunch of treasure, including a set of +2 chain mail, just lying in the corner of their cave. If the PCs win quickly they'll get a bunch of useful stuff. If they're less efficient the enemies' consumables may be diminished.

Occasionally you can mix in particular items which suit your PCs' needs, like that Ring of Evasion your Bard has been wanting. That doesn't mean things will work out the way you intend. Maybe the enemy character with the Ring of Evasion is able to avoid the Bard's spells because of it and runs away. Or maybe the other PCs decide to dice for the treasure and the Bard loses out. Don't get too attached to your plans regarding treasure. If you follow the standard tables and populate your world with the right amount of treasure (on average) per encounter, you've done your job. Attempting to micro-manage PC wealth is heavy-handed and generally leads to player resentment, even when you're trying to help the PCs out.

[Telonius]

The DMG does assume that NPCs have more treasure than the average encounter:

NPCs may have treasure in addition to their gear, at your discretion, but an NPC’s gear is already worth about three times the average value of a treasure of his or her level. Defeating NPC foes brings about great reward for treasure-seekers, but since the gear is mostly magic that the NPC can use against the characters (some of which is one-use), it all evens out.

[Brookshw]

Personally I roll on the charts. NPC wbl strikes me as silly and I ignore it.