3.5 Stormlord Optimization

[ImaDeadMan]

I want to make a character that has full divine casting progression and can hurl javelins to make the most of the Stormlord's class features. Basically, this character is a fun idea that I want to make work. The build currently is Something 5/Ur-Priest 1/Stormlord 9/Master Thrower 5.

The difficulty with making this work is going from Ur-priest to Stormlord. I need a way to attain 3rd level divine casting without taking more levels into anything because I want to go into Stormlord the very next level after I take Ur-priest. Is there any possible way to do this?

[Vhaidara]

The main idea we've come up with is to find a race that has a 3rd level "as cleric/druid" SLA. Get into Ur-Priest as some other race, then get your race changed (covered in PH2) to the new race (Ur-Priest prohibits Divine Casting upon entry, but not after entry), and then that lets you qualify for Stormlord. Does anyone know of such a race?

[CyberThread]

archon hound savage progresssion :P

[ImaDeadMan]

archon hound savage progresssion :P

While yes the Hound Archon savage progression provides SLA's of sufficient level, WotC has ruled that SLA's default as arcane unless otherwise stated. It would have to be a 3rd-level divine SLA in order to count.

[CyberThread]

Hounds progress cleric casting faster then a cleric cast it :P

[ImaDeadMan]

Hounds progress cleric casting faster then a cleric cast it :P

So I looked back at the Hound Archon entry in Savage Species and I found no mention of it advancing divine casting. It has a few SLAs and in the SLA entry it states "The Hound Archon's caster level is equal to its hit dice from class levels". Since this is under the SLA entry for Hound Archon, that means that when it casts one of it's SLAs, it is counted as a caster of a level equal to his hit dice for determining how it affects the SLA he is using. So thank you but I don't think Hound Archon is what I'm looking for. If you can prove me wrong then I will be more than happy lol

[CyberThread]

Sorry meant Ghaele :)

[Vhaidara]

These still cost levels, either through LA, RHD, or levels in the Savage Progression class.

[CyberThread]

I really don't know what to offer you,you could have a runesmith bind an SLA on you, that could work. Do an archivist instead of a cleric, so you can learn druid spells , unsure if it count as druid still though or cleric. Once you have the SLA bound to you, you could use retraining feats, fully redo your character, once you attained the SLA.

[Vhaidara]

We figured it out. You go Wizard or Wu-Jen 5 into Ur-Priest, then take Southern Magician as your level 6 feat. This let's you cast your arcane spells as divine spells, meaning that you can cast 3rd level divine spells.

[GreenSerpent]

I'd just like to point out that thematically Ur-Priests cannot enter Stormlord, as they're required to be a patron of Talos and an Ur-Priest despises gods (and steals their power from them).

As for getting 3rd level divine spells I would suggest either Southern Magician, Sha'ir, or (use only if Gouda is allowed) Alternative Source Spell.

[Vhaidara]

We tend to do away with a lot of "fluff" requirements (alignments, races, patron dieties). Also, I happen to be in the campaign he made this for (initially done through DM fiat, now he wants it to be legal), and we kind of don't have Talos.

[A_S]

As for getting 3rd level divine spells I would suggest either Southern Magician, Sha'ir, or (use only if Gouda is allowed) Alternative Source Spell.

I don't believe these, or any similar solutions, can work. The requirements for Ur-Priest say:

The character must have no ability to cast divine spells. If such spellcasting ability was previously possessed (as with an ex-cleric), that ability is forever forsaken.

Stormlord requires:

Able to cast 3rd-level divine spells

In other words, the ability that Stormlord requires is the one that is explicitly lost when entering Ur-Priest. That means the source of divine spellcasting ability can't be coming from the five blank levels before entering Ur-Priest; you have to be able to cast 3rd level spells with your single level of Ur-Priest casting.

There are ways to accomplish this, but they're all Grade-A Known Cheese. The Sanctum Spell/Earth Spell combo does the trick. So does metamagic reduction + Heighten Spell. You might have to go Elf + Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle to get the feats you need, but what the hell, you're already well beyond what most tables allow, so knock yourself out.

*edit*

We figured it out. You go Wizard or Wu-Jen 5 into Ur-Priest, then take Southern Magician as your level 6 feat. This let's you cast your arcane spells as divine spells, meaning that you can cast 3rd level divine spells.

Wizard 5 or Wu-Jen 5 will fail to meet the base save requirements for Ur-Priest in time. There may be a casting-advancing PrC that will solve this problem for you, though.

If you can get around that, the "Southern Magician at 6" solution might work. By gaining the ability to cast divine spells with a class other than Ur-Priest after entering, you're effectively ceasing to meet the class' prerequisites. What exactly happens when you cease to meet the prerequisites of a PrC you've already entered is a fairly hotly debated topic on these forums. If this build is for an actual game, ask your DM. If it's just for fun, decide how cheesy you like your for-fun builds.

[Vhaidara]

No, it just means you cannot cast divine spells when you enter Ur-Priest. You could go Fighter 5/ Ur-Priest 1/ Cleric 14. It's bad, but it is an option.

With Wizard 5/UP 1 and Southern Magician at 6, when you take your first level of UP, you forsake your divine casting. You get 1st level divine casting from UP, so clearly you can cast divine spells. So then you grab Southern Magician, and you can use your wizard spells as divine spells, qualifying you for Stormlord, and then you use SL to progress UP.

[A_S]

No, it just means you cannot cast divine spells when you enter Ur-Priest. You could go Fighter 5/ Ur-Priest 1/ Cleric 14. It's bad, but it is an option.

With Wizard 5/UP 1 and Southern Magician at 6, when you take your first level of UP, you forsake your divine casting. You get 1st level divine casting from UP, so clearly you can cast divine spells. So then you grab Southern Magician, and you can use your wizard spells as divine spells, qualifying you for Stormlord, and then you use SL to progress UP.

Swordsage'd, see my edit. If your DM is ruling that you can stop meeting PrC requirements and keep their abilities/continue to advance in them, it works. Ask the DM.

[Vhaidara]

Well, let's ignore that no one can enter UP because you have to be trained by an UP, meaning that no one ever qualified to become the first UP.

[A_S]

Well, let's ignore that no one can enter UP because you have to be trained by an UP, meaning that no one ever qualified to become the first UP.

Don't forget that it disqualifies itself on entry!