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    Pixie in the Playground
     
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    Default [Civilization] Ruinous Insects

    Hello! I have some free time betwen 22:00 and 23:00, UTC+1, so I'm just gonna go ahead and start my own civilizaion thread, in parallel to DeZako's. I've always been more of a GM than a player anyway.

    Slow down. What is this about?
    Basically, you get to build a civilization from the stone age to wherever you'll go after that. There will be magic and multiple sapient races. My job is to provide you with a setting, hopefully an interesting one, and to make it respond to your decisions. Your job is... well, to decide what you'll do. Think wide open sandbox. I might give you some gentle nudges at first in order to get you thinking about things like what do you believe in (both from a religious and a morale point of view), where you want to go technologically speaking, or how to deal with relationships.

    Alright, civilization building. How do I play?
    To sum it up: the first action with three votes is what I roll with. Everybody share the same civilization, and you act as some sort of collective conscious mind (think about the video game Civilization, except you're not alone in front of the screen, and you must come to a compromise with the other players for every turn).

    Mechanically speaking, this game will be different from DeZako's. No fine-tuned plans here! Instead, you'll have a number of actions per turn; those actions will be undertaken by the civilization. There can only be one goal per action every turn: which means that, if you have only one action, you can't, per example, explore AND research technology in the same turn. Assume that this is because every effort made by one of the branches of your civilization is backed up by the others. To continue with the previous example, if you're researching a new technology, the explorers will focus on localizing things that are useful for the tests; conversely, if you're busy exploring, the researchers will put on their mechanic hat an make sure that the wagons are fit for exploring. It should be noted that, if you really want to min-max your civilization, then I'll drop the whole actions mechanic. After all, you're the clients, and the client is king. And I'm flexible.

    Oh, and before I forget: non-standard turn time ahoy. A "turn" isn't defined by a given length of time: it's the time between the end of two actions, or between two random events, or between the end of an action and a random event. So if you're spending all of your actions researching, you might just get one new technology/magic the very next turn; but it's also a great way to skip time until the next random event (which can be anything, from "another civilization discover you" to "hunger strikes" to "bad omens". Most of time, though, it's bad news).

    What about tech and magic?
    Tech-wise, you can go anywhere, as long as you can reasonably and logically go there. Which means that you need two things to unlock a given tech: logic prerequisites (per example, you can't have guns without something to propel projectiles), and a motive to do so (you can't just decide to research more efficient ways to kill if you have nothing to kill in the first place). Hm? A tech tree? Nope. Mainly because a tech tree implies that tech will be following the human one... and it's not. If you want to build steam-powered mechas or a transportation systems based on huge cannons, you're free to do so. I never said that the tech needed to be realistic; only logic.

    Oh, and magic. To be perfectly honest, I'm still figuring out the exact rules governing magic. Though I can tell you this much: your first contact with magic will likely be either alchemy, an encounter with a magic beast, or witnessing a magic phenomenon.

    You keep mentioning DeZako as the guy who first did that. Are you an unimaginative copycat?
    Nah, this kind of game has been around for years. If I'm not mistaken, DeZako even mentioned himself that he'll like the Civilization game to become a staple of this board, so here I am.

    When do we play?
    Well, I'll be lurking around between 22:00 and 23:00 UTC+1 most nights (I'll signal it if I can't come the night before). One turn per day, generally I'll do it as soon as possible, so I can answer the ensuing questions for the next hour, in order to get you all enough information to act. Which means that we'll start the game tomorrow, since the first votes will be race and starting location.

    tl;dr
    You build civilization with votes. But yeah, you're right. This was way too long of a prologue, let's get cracking. Go here to see what races and places are available. First one with three votes win!

    http://img.4plebs.org/boards/tg/imag...3876956248.jpg
    Last edited by Darklim; 2014-04-23 at 12:50 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: [Civilization] To be defined

    I would like to see this working, but it's hard to make a choice :P
    Is there any place where you can find the rules for this kind of games? Anyway, I'll vote for any race with a specialized orientation, like Cyclops, Gnome, Undead, Mechanical, etc....
    As for a place to start, I don't really fancy anything, but I'll go with Valley/canyon since it seems kinda easy to develop from there.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: [Civilization] To be defined

    What about Insects and Ruins?
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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: [Civilization] To be defined

    Sounds good. I was thinking about toying with magic at some point but insects look fun too

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: [Civilization] To be defined

    Quote Originally Posted by Koalita View Post
    Is there any place where you can find the rules for this kind of games?
    That's one of the most marvelous thing with this game: it's been around for years (at least since I discovered 4chan, which was a long time ago), and yet nobody bothered to come up with actual written rules. Most of the time, GMs just decide on them at the beginning, or even as they go.

    I once thought about coming up with a unified rules sytem.. But thinking about it, letting people decide how they want to manage their game is better for this kind of games. In my opinion, at least.

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: [Civilization] To be defined

    I just wonder who came up with the races image posted, which I found very interesting. Is it a staple? I guess there are lots of other options as well...

    Usually it's 1 turn per day? Or depends?

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: [Civilization] To be defined

    Yeah, the image is a staple. Though, strangely as it might sound, nobody in particular came up with the picture, it was actually build by people adding stuff one after the other. I don't know exactly what the first guy to come up with a picture actually made (maybe it was just races, not even perks and quirks and stats, just races); I even think the the game predate the picture.

    What I do know, though, is that when I first saw this kind of picture, there were only sixteen races on that picture (the first 4x4 block), and no areas. Then someone added four other races (goblin, homonculus, faun and dryad), and then someone else added the twelve on the right, and then someone else added the standard areas, and then someone else added the hard-mode areas (look close enough, and you'll realize every additions use a slightly different font from the others). I know for a fact that there's yet another version, with werewolves and two other races, but none of those races appealed to me, so I used this version instead.

    Usually, this kind of game takes place on the /tg/ board of 4chan, so turns take about 20 minutes each. 10 minutes if the thread is particularly lively and the GM a particularly fast keyslinger. When it's exported from such a fast-paced board to more relaxed forums and the likes, the time between turns can vary immensely.

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: [Civilization] To be defined

    Not very familiar with 4chan, and whenever I tried to locate one of those games, couldn't find any. Lets see if we can make it running around here, would be great.

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: [Civilization] To be defined

    Great to see the game's being succesful! Also I hope this doesn't mean you'll stop playing in my thread...

    I'm voting insects and ruins too. I find it amazing that nobody ever chooses something like humans or elves, but I guess thats because I started playing when that was old.
    Also I got a doubt about the system you'll be going with: Does that mean that if a civ chooses to focus on exploring, some stuff like food or resource gathering stops, or do certain things go into autopilot at some point in the game?

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: [Civilization] To be defined

    Quote Originally Posted by DeZako View Post
    Great to see the game's being succesful! Also I hope this doesn't mean you'll stop playing in my thread...
    Yep, it means just that. I'll be coming to take my stuff next saturday. You keep the TV, I keep the kids. No but seriously I can multitask, don't worry.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeZako View Post
    I'm voting insects and ruins too. I find it amazing that nobody ever chooses something like humans or elves, but I guess thats because I started playing when that was old.
    Also I got a doubt about the system you'll be going with: Does that mean that if a civ chooses to focus on exploring, some stuff like food or resource gathering stops, or do certain things go into autopilot at some point in the game?
    Great, I'll post the first post... well, tonight. Right now I'm studying, and I want a clear mind to post the first one.

    Also, autopilot it is. Basically, whenever you'll find a resource, it'll be:
    1. Discovering it through exploration, and on-field research to figure out how to transport it if need be;
    2. Building an exploitation building (e.g mine, fields, etc...), and allocate a number of people to it.
    And then, you can assume that you have easy access to the resource whenever you decide to do stuff with it; and the more people you'll have working on it, the faster you'll get it. And food is just a kind of resource.

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: [Civilization] To be defined

    I was trending towards elves or humans, but tbh, I like the specialization... and elves area of specialization looks kinda meh. Magic was ok I guess, but the minus to combat drove me away.

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: [Civilization] To be defined

    I was just wondering about how everyone seems to like playing odd races. For a certain value of odd.

    Hope there'll be a thread in the future where people choose humans or elves or dwarves... that, and that having more civ threads would be great.

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    Default Re: [Civilization] To be defined

    You’ve been floating around. In a milky, white, cloudy void. Just floating around, eyes closed. Waiting for time to pass. It’s been an eternity since you’ve done so. You can’t even remember what came before the gentle, warm void that surround you. Hell, you can’t even remember your own name. But now, after an eternity of waiting, you feel something. Something new. The void is becoming hotter as time goes. You slowly open your eyes, for the first time since forever. The void is becoming clearer, and seems to be illuminated somehow, now. You slowly deploy your arms to try and feel something else in the void. At the same time, the void becoming clearer as time goes, you start to see colors you’ve never seen before. You start to panic, as you’re experiencing far more sensations than you ever experienced in your life. Per example, your arm can no longer progress in the void; there’s some kind of force that block them. Desperate, you start banging this force… until it cracks open under the pressure of your hits. The void is suddenly set in motion, and start to spread on the dusty ground. You look around… You’re out of the void. What’s around you is a confusing dimension that seems to respect no logic whatsoever. You don’t understand. You can’t understand. You don’t want to be here. You want to go back. You want to go back. You want to go back.

    Suddenly, in a surge, a flow of thoughts, both foreign and familiar, enter your mind. As your consciousness slowly adapts itself to the dump of information gathered by all those that came before you, you finally understand where you are, and what the hell just happened.

    You just hatched. Time to get cracking.

    ----------

    And just like that, a colony of 20 adult insects hatched, in the middle of a long-forgotten… something. As far as they can tell, they’re at the feet of an extremely high and abrupt cliff. Or mountain. It’s hard to tell, given how high the damn thing is. Everywhere around there, there is stone, white and black. Looks like the previous owners didn’t agree on one color. And while it must have been magnificent when there was a whole architecture to back it up, now it just looks like a futile attempt to get two colors that hate each other to cohabit. It’s beautiful, though, now that trees and vines have taken back their right. Green, black and white. Eerie, but a pleasing sight nevertheless. The fact that the pantagruelian body of rock above you cast a shadow over part of the ruins, and that there's not a cloud in the sky, furthermore improving the contrast between black and white (black for the part of the ruins in the shadow, white for the part outside of it) also contributes a lot.

    But let’s stop daydreaming, and focus back on our new-hatched insects. They made a sad observation by looking around them: the ground is somewhere between sand and soil. A distant echo of the world "savannah" resonates in the insects' heads. With all of the food shortage and hunting that it implies. Lost and desperate to get some food, they instinctively find the one female the most fit for reproduction, and subsequenty make her their leader; hopefully, she'll lead them to some food.

    Your tribe awaits your order, my Queen.

    ----------
    Gather
    Hunt
    Explore
    Research
    Build
    Other (specify)
    ----------
    Population: 20 insects (1 queen, 19 minions)
    Items: Cracked eggs.
    Stocks: The dust under your limbs.
    Food: Critical.
    Buildings: Black and white ruins.
    Tech: Hatching.
    ----------
    Morale: THE HUNGER. And apart from that, the tribe is waiting to do their Queen's biddings until she's ready to renew them (see below).
    Diplomacy: Forever alone. Though if we saw strangers, we'd likely eat them: THE HUNGER.
    Philosophy: No time for existentialism right now: THE HUNGER.
    Science: No time for curiosity right now: THE HUNGER.
    Culture: No time for identity crisis right now: THE HUNGER.
    ----------
    Mutations:
    - Major: none for now.
    - Minor: none for now.
    ----------

    Now that the roleplay part is done, here’s what’s going on: all insects come with a racial memory, that quickly infodump everything the queen knew at the time she made the egg. Or, as seems to be the case here, if she musts lay eggs in a hurry, she can skip the whole “everything started when [REDACTED] created the universe”, and just give the basics: language, what’s the world, how does it work, why you shut up and listen to the queen, why it’s not unfair that the soldiers get more meat than you per meal, etc… And for the records, it’s still that traumatic to hatch for every insects. Yeah… they’re basically PTSD: the civilization.

    ... What do you mean, “too grim for me”. Hey, at least I didn’t made the queen-to-bee fratricidal psychos that kill all of the other female eggs before they even hatch.

    That being said, we’re still in insect land; and while the queen will most likely live for about two bazillions of centuries and 37 days, the tribe that you see here? Doomed to die soon. Actually, doomed to die as soon as the next turn: they’ll serve as both mates and meat for the queen to create a new generation, with the major mutation that comes prepackaged with the insect race. Why yes, you get to choose the mutation.

    As for what’s a “major” mutation and what’s a “minor”… well, per example, “a new set of limbs” (you start with 4), “mandibules”, “secreting spider lines”, and basically anything that is either incredibly useful or incredibly polyvalent is a “major” mutation; while “night vision”, “vibration sense”, “amphibious” and other things that could be replaced by a piece of gear are minor (of course, “amphibious”, here, means “can move as fast as a fish in water”, not “life is better, down where it’s wetter, under the sea”). And breeding is directly related to the food stock. If you want to renew your population, you can: you’ll just have to kill and eat your fellow minions and lay new eggs. But if you want new minions, you’re going to need meat equivalent to three times the weight of a minion. A minion weighs approximately 60 kilos for now (~120 pounds). I let you do the math. And remember: you naturally eat twice as much as other beings.

    Yeah, your minions' life is worthless, in fact you're just about to kill them and eat them just to make upgrade versions of them, and it's likely that you're going to devour absolutely anything edible in a 1 kilometer radius faster than the flames of hell. Welcome in Insectland.

    Though I’d like to underline the fact that, while you’re genetically programmed to act as the life of the individual is worthless, and there’s one queen that govern every others, and any food sources and resources must be exploited until nothing's left, and stuff like that, you’re the ones at the wheel: and a little green and democratic revolution in insectland might be very interesting... If you can pull it off.


    Also, I should explain for the cursors under the more... pragmatic ones, let's say. Basically:

    - Morale: Indicate the general attitude of the tribe towards life, and a good indicator of how efficient it is at what it does.

    - Diplomacy: Lists all the people you know, where they are, what deals you have with them, how they appear to judge you, etc...

    - Philosophy: What the mainstream beliefs of the societies are right now, including religion if it happens. Will serve as a positive or negative penalty to any actions that respectively pertains to or contradicts your philosophy. Example of a belief: "Honorable is he who'll die for the many; despicable is he who'll live for one". Note that the definition is loose, and open to interpretations; this is to let the door opened to crusades, civil wars and revolutions. Per example, isn't obeying blindly to the Queen "living for one"? Or is fighting for her "dying for the many", since you know, you're saving the whole tribe back home by fighting? Yeah, my games come with morale dilemmas and headaches. Deal with it.

    - Science: Lists all of the ideas and questions that striked the tribe's minds, and that can be directly tapped into to create new technologies or new mutations. Per example: "Travelling by foot is long and costly", "Fire can change a matter's state", "Salt acts strangely on flesh". If you can't relate the research of technology to one of the ideas in your Sciencebox, it'll suffer a penalty. If you can't relate the research of a mutation to one of your ideas... then you can't mutate at all! After all, it's called "adaptation", not "spontaneous genetic tomfooleries".

    - Culture: What the cultural currents are. Globally, this won't be of any use in the game: it's just to keep track of the core components of your overall behaviour and appearance. It might be referenced once or twice in the game (per example, slightly altering how other civilizations think of you), and it'll alter the shape and style of some buildings (in particular, you can't get a museum if your civilization isn't keen on art, neither can you get a colliseum if it doesn't think of show-offy fights as a form of entertainment); but in the end, it's all just appearance.


    And now you might ask me "hey, these things are useful! How do I fill them?" Well, for diplomacy and morale, it fills itself. For philosopy and culture, you tell me! Though while you're pretty free on culture, try not to come up with a belief that's completely opposite to your civilization current actions: you can't just turn pacifist from one day to another while waging a war... and wage said war even stronger! But generall, I'm open on that.
    Same goes for science, anything that goes, goes. Though it will also fills itself when bad random events will happen to the tribe (ex: drought). Thus, it makes for a good "problem-o-meter"... and since necessity is the mother of invention, it should work out.

    As you might have guessed, those cursos are highly experimental material: if you don't feel comfortable with them around for now or forever, tell me and I'll remove them. Or if you think that linking beliefs and culture to the system is a bad idea, tell me and I'll suppress said link, it'll just be a collection of the things you believe and the ways you do stuff. In any case, feedback much appreciated.

    And with that, I go to bed, I'm as tired as a beaten horse.
    Last edited by Darklim; 2014-04-22 at 04:55 PM.

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: [Civilization] To be defined

    I say we scatter and explore every direction away from the cliff (that is, every hex not blocked by the cliff is to be scouted by a group of insects), saving three minions that are to be eaten by the queem to produce a new insect with the mutations of "sticky limbs" and "extra pair of limbs" so that it can climb the cliff and explore whats above us.

    Edit:also you seem to have copied the tech we have at the other thread. Unless you gave us smoking tech from the start, in which case thank you!
    Last edited by DeZako; 2014-04-22 at 04:48 PM.

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: [Civilization] To be defined

    I think it's either 2 minor or 1 major mutation, according to picture. No idea about what mutations to pick, I'll roll with whatever unless something crosses my mind, but I feel our priority should be... FOOD. Critical is usually BAD, so whatever we can hunt, forrage, gather, whatever. We need food ASAP and as much as possible.

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: [Civilization] To be defined

    Quote Originally Posted by DeZako View Post
    new insect with the mutations of "sticky limbs" and "extra pair of limbs" so that it can climb the cliff and explore whats above us.
    While sticky limbs is a good idea in itself, you'll need more than just manpower to climb THIS cliff. You don't even see where it ends, and it's huge enough to cast a shadow over a chunk of a city. It's going to be the Long Climb Up, if you want to


    Quote Originally Posted by DeZako View Post
    Edit:also you seem to have copied the tech we have at the other thread. Unless you gave us smoking tech from the start, in which case thank you!
    I corrected this horrendous mistake, and you now have nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Koalita View Post
    I think it's either 2 minor or 1 major mutation, according to picture.
    Oh, yeah. You can choose two minor mutations as well, if you so desire. If you do, they'll both be on the next generation.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: [Civilization] Ruinous Insects

    Godammit. Scratch the mutation thingy, get all of our loyal subjects to explore. A map would be handy for seeing how to divide the main force in smaller subgroups.

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: [Civilization] Ruinous Insects

    The mutation thingy is free. You don't have to scratch it to explore.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: [Civilization] Ruinous Insects

    Mutation: I want something that helps us to move faster and/or have better senses. Whatever that is, minor or major.
    If there are nothing to eat around, we need to explore. If we can send our insects to gather of hunt, lets do that, but if we need to specify what, then explore to look for something to hunt.

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: [Civilization] Ruinous Insects

    Wait, but how does that mutation thing work? Does it appear on a new batch of hatchlings or does everyone get it, even those already alive? Cause if its the former I suggest we dont think about it much until we get some food. No sense in reducing our workforce, no matter how useful the mutation.

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: [Civilization] Ruinous Insects

    The mutation occurs on new batches, not spontaneously on already grown bodies. That being said, a recently-crowned Queen (e.g: your leader) can "recycle" minions by eating them, letting her body slightly modify their genetic code, then laying a fast-hatching egg. The full process takes an hour or so, and the only real modification is that the body will get a new mutation. Recycling is fast; it's forming whole new beings that is hard, and takes several weeks.

    By the way, "recently" means that you'll only be able to do so for adding two minor mutations or one major mutation. For the rest, it'll be the good old egg laying.
    Last edited by Darklim; 2014-04-23 at 03:07 AM.

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: [Civilization] Ruinous Insects

    And it wouldnt require her to eat three minions to shoot out one?

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: [Civilization] Ruinous Insects

    No, it is a trait of the insects, when a new Queen is crowned (ie, we choose insects as a race), she can 'recycle' her new minions to grant them 2 minor or 1 major mutation. After that, it'll be normal reproduction, etc....

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: [Civilization] Ruinous Insects

    Koalita know what's up.

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    Default Re: [Civilization] Ruinous Insects

    I actually think we should keep the climbing ability, even if climbing THE WALL is unfeasible. Height's still a good advantage to have, especially in ruins where there are so many walls.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razanir View Post
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    Default Re: [Civilization] Ruinous Insects

    Ooooh, shiny. I say we mutate into something that is better at a)exploring, or b)fighting.

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    Default Re: [Civilization] Ruinous Insects

    Quote Originally Posted by Koalita View Post
    Mutation: I want something that helps us to move faster...
    on that note, are wings a feasible mutation at this point?

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    Default Re: [Civilization] Ruinous Insects

    I have to admit, I was tempted to not give you the map until you research “Cartography”… but then, you’d have little to no idea what the area looks like. Cartography still hold a bonus, though. As for does anything you research.

    The X is where you are.


    Well, you know that you're surrounded by ruins. The recycling can wait; for now, everyone (except the Queen) is to search for food.
    Predictably, there’s not that much food around. Motivated by sheer hunger, the insects show extra ruthlessness in their foraging, and manage to catch a bug here, to find an edible vine there, and end up with an unlikely comfortable pile of grass and smaller insects.

    The ones that weren’t single-mindedly obsessed by food noticed that they can only catch the slowest, most exposed animals: in fact, there seems to be an oddly high present wildlife, for what was supposed to be a ruined area. Well, it’s not exactly swarming with meat either, but still.

    They also figured out that said animals managed to escape them because they were faster. Or more agile. Or able to burrow themselves quickly. Or to climb. Whatever the reason, those simple animals are ahead of you in the evolutionary tree. Which is a disturbing fact, that cause much unease to the insects. Fortunately, you know just the perfect countermeasure.

    ----------
    Breed (consumes 180 kilos of food per individual)
    Gather
    Hunt
    Explore
    Research
    Build
    Other (specify)
    ----------
    Population: 20 insects (1 queen, 19 minions)
    Items: None.
    Stocks: None.
    Food: Enough to hold until the next turn.
    Water: The reserves in the eggs will last for a time… but not eternally.
    Buildings: Black and white ruins.
    Tech: Hatching.
    ----------
    Morale: Dafwinist frustration.
    Diplomacy: Nobody around.
    Philosophy: What the Queen says is right, is right.
    Science: The local wildlife is more fit to our surroundings than us.
    Culture: None.
    ----------
    Mutations:
    - Major: none for now.
    - Minor: none for now.
    ----------

    I postponed the recycling a little, because there wasn’t a real consensus reached about what it should be. To answer the last question asked: of course you can get wings. There’s even a pre-defined rule about wings (see harpies): scouting becomes free. Btw, recycling is a free action. You want your first mutation, you get it, and quickly so.
    Last edited by Darklim; 2014-04-23 at 03:46 PM.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2008

    Default Re: [Civilization] Ruinous Insects

    They also figured out that said animals managed to escape them because they were faster. Or more agile. Or able to burrow themselves quickly. Or to climb.
    So we need a way to:
    a) be faster/more agile/fly?
    b) climb
    c) burrow
    d) ranged attack
    e) stealthier

    I'd say lets get 2 minor mutations, 1 for perception (tremor sense? night vision?) and 1 to hunt better (spitting needles (or that would be a major?)? sticky limbs, burrow (matches with tremor sense))

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Planetar

    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Somewhere near Paris
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [Civilization] Ruinous Insects

    For the needles, depends. If you can compare them to slings, needing several to get down one deer, then it's a minor. If it's a bow-like needle, it's a major.
    Last edited by Darklim; 2014-04-23 at 05:00 PM.

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