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  1. - Top - End - #121
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    Default Re: The Pub: Off-topic chat for forum gamers

    Sorry y'all, I won't be able to post tonight. Stuck on my old desktop. The lag is unbelievable.
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  2. - Top - End - #122
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    Default Re: The Pub: Off-topic chat for forum gamers

    Quote Originally Posted by aric_kale View Post
    Sorry y'all, I won't be able to post tonight. Stuck on my old desktop. The lag is unbelievable.
    I still have dial-up.


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  3. - Top - End - #123
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    Default Re: The Pub: Off-topic chat for forum gamers

    So, something two things I've been thinking about a bit:

    Thing the first: Analysis. Specifically day one analysis.

    There are people on both extremes at the moment, some wanting to bring back the fun point day ones and some wanting to go all out. I feel like we should probably have an actual discussion of it outside of a game where voting matters.

    IMO, I like the idea of day one meaning something, but I think there is a point where it can go overboard. The major example is the Toy Story game: I'm personally enjoying the amount of back and forth and participation, but I know that level already is too much for some people to handle (I've been there in terms of both time constraints and commitment) I'm worried about people, especially the ones here not looking for 5+ pages of one third of day one to read, getting fed up with the amount. Plus, I know that at some point I won't be able to follow that level of analysis too. I think there's a limit we need to put on bigger games, but I have no clue where that would be, so I leave it to the, well, forum.

    Thing the second: I'm thinking about putting together a 15-20 player game while I'm on summer break. There are two main mechanics I want to introduce:

    PM's as notes. This essentially would mean that PMs are limited and a little bit dangerous to use, since one of the things I'm thinking is that any note(PM) that a person hasn't specifically destroyed via telling a narrator or co-narrator, can be shown to the public, for example, off death (They wouldn't be labelled unless the PM specifically has a person's name or pseudoname on it, there would be ways to tell who's note is who's based off certain factors)

    Secondly: Quicktopics as rooms for a night. That means that anyone can join in a quicktopic for nighttime discussion, but those can't be used once day rolls around.

    Essentially there is a huge restriction on communication and a lot more risk to doing so. Would this be something that's interesting, or end up being cumbersome? Let me know what you guys think.
    Last edited by TFT; 2014-05-28 at 07:11 AM.
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  4. - Top - End - #124
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    Default Re: The Pub: Off-topic chat for forum gamers

    The ideas sound interesting.
    As for analysis, it is not mandatory to participate or follow it. I feel anyone can find the time to scroll through the pages to search for their own name, answer any specific questions and point.
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  5. - Top - End - #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Fiery Tower View Post
    Thing the first: Analysis. Specifically day one analysis.

    There are people on both extremes at the moment, some wanting to bring back the fun point day ones and some wanting to go all out. I feel like we should probably have an actual discussion of it outside of a game where voting matters.
    The basic premise of a wolf game is the village using discussion and analysis to try and root out the wolves, while the wolves try to deceive the village. What we are discussing is whether we should ban this activity from day one. Doing so has several repercussions on the play of the game that are not immediately obvious but which plague this community.

    Players get eliminated prior to actually getting to play in the game. This tends to be people who have been around a lot and accrued a reputation. After all, when people are asked to generate a random number, they fail spectacularly. So what we have is not a random first few days, but a very heavily meta first few days, which are incredibly lethal to any player with a reputation for being a good analyst.

    Because analysts tend to get killed off for meta reasoning, the end of the game generally also sees very little in the way of actual analysis. This has generated an over-reliance on village power roles, which also means more are added to maintain balance. This over-reliance manifests in people waiting for seer claims or deferring completely to a network. A villager role may not be the most exciting role to draw anywhere, but here the reliance on network dynamics makes it a guarantee that you will simply be waiting in the wings lest you annoy the network. This means auto-lynches.

    So the following is all at least contributed to by the lack of day one analysis:

    - Lock-out for anyone with a reputation
    - Lame Duck games where a large network can win by process of elimination, sometimes established as early as day 2 from mason gambits
    - Auto-lynches
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  6. - Top - End - #126
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    Default Re: The Pub: Off-topic chat for forum gamers

    Power role proliferation is an interesting point. In inactive games its a serious leg up, but I actually prefer being a vanilla in hyper active games sometimes because you can afford to be more fearless with your activity.

    TBF raises several good points, but there's a another facet to all of this: the ambiance. High versus low day 1 changes the mood implicitly, and while humor and zealotry can coexist, they do not do so easily. Murska is technically right, that you can opt out of such things, but there's still a soft pressure to either join or spectate rather than do your own thing.

    Even devoid of social mood, there's only so much energy anyone is willing to put forth for a game before it stops being fun. I tend to rp a lot less when things become frenetic as juggling an rp and a participating in the game as a game can be a bit much.

    Bottom line I can see how the casual day 1 creates some unfortunate side effects, but a goodly amount of people enjoy it regardless, and that's counter argument enough for it to remain. I see this reaction similar to the latest controversy in Jeopardy. The Forest Bounce and the hypnotic trivia jaunt are both valid ways to play, but they don't interact well.

    As such, I think the best solution is simply to offer both via individual game selection. Narrators can choose what the soft expectations are, and players can honor that general request. High Analysis Day 1, Casual Day 1, Role play heavy (like Typical) or whatever other metagame styles people like. If we tag or intro them as such, we can get a real idea of who plays each, both, which we can plan for the future on, as well as avoid the general clash that happens now.
    Last edited by Legato Endless; 2014-05-28 at 11:49 AM.

  7. - Top - End - #127
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    Default Re: The Pub: Off-topic chat for forum gamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Legato Endless View Post
    Role play heavy (like Typical).
    I wouldn't recommend this one.
    Last edited by Penguinator; 2014-05-28 at 12:02 PM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Penguinator View Post
    I wouldn't reccomend this one.
    I'm enjoying it, but yes, it has had some mixed results. Also I am not Murska. I think.
    Last edited by Legato Endless; 2014-05-28 at 11:52 AM.

  9. - Top - End - #129
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    I don't know why it keeps doing that... I don't think I'd multi-quoted anything.


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  10. - Top - End - #130
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    Actually, I'm not certain a more casual Day 1 is likely to get all the analysts killed early. When I randomly point, I mean it. I roll dice and point at the player at that number. And while we can go with the meta "Murska is always a wolf" and so on, we can equally go "come on, let's not Day 1 lynch the poor guy again over the same old joke." Equally, the wolves might go "alright, we'll leave the obvious targets alone for a bit, and hey, maybe the village will lynch them for us" (when I am a wolf, I tend to pick early kill targets at random too if I have nothing else to go on).

    By contrast, if we get a high analysis Day 1, it can put the wolves on the defensive. They can see the vocal players as a threat, and elimate them fast. The analysts get through Day 1, but then get killed off by wolves fast. And then a few games down the line we get into Rule of Shadow territory: "any top analyst who has made it this far must be a wolf. Lynch them." Admitedly, this last part is an extreme example, and the original was before my time, but I believe that did happen to Shadow.

    Regardless, I think Legato makes a good point about ambiance. Players who want to RP don't want to have to wade through all the early analysis to find someone to interact with, or someone they should respond to, and it mess with the mood. Equally, players who prefer to just stay quiet early on (like me, given a chance) can find the intense nature of heavy Day 1 analysis offputting. We want to (hopefully) get through the first couple of days, then we'll start seeing if we can spot patterns, or if people are really beginning to look wolfy. In the meantime, if we get lynched or killed in the first few days, well it happens, somebody's got to be the target, no hard feelings. We don't want to have every word scrutinised, or get criticised if we choose to vote randomly because none of the existing logic sways us.

    I think Legato's idea about varying types of game is about the best solution we're likely to get. There's nothing wrong with intense Day 1 analysis for the people who enjoy it. There's nothing wrong with a casual start to the game, and only seriously starting the wolf hunt around Day 3 for people who prefer RP and/or a quiet start. They are 2 different ways to have fun, and that's the point. They are both fun for the people who want to do them. But both can seriously annoy the people on the other side. While I prefer a quiet start, having seen some good early analysis, questioning players, debate, etc, I can see that it's an effective tactic at times, and I can understand why people who want to do it get frustrated with people who don't. But at the same time, I can find the relentless nature of early-game analysis exhausting, and I'm playing to enjoy myself. If the game isn't fun for me, why am I playing?

    So yeah, Legato's suggestion of tagging what a narrator has in mind could work. And maybe sometimes the seriously analytical players might take a break, and see what happens in a game which starts more casually. And maybe sometimes quieter players like me might weigh in on some high-analysis games. It's not like I don't play to win, I just approach it differently. It's not a perfect solution (not least of all because it potentially splits the playerbase, and could make it harder for games to attract enough players), but I can't think of an alternative.
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  11. - Top - End - #131
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    Default Re: The Pub: Off-topic chat for forum gamers

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fiery Tower View Post
    So, something two things I've been thinking about a bit:

    Thing the first: Analysis. Specifically day one analysis.

    There are people on both extremes at the moment, some wanting to bring back the fun point day ones and some wanting to go all out. I feel like we should probably have an actual discussion of it outside of a game where voting matters.

    IMO, I like the idea of day one meaning something, but I think there is a point where it can go overboard. The major example is the Toy Story game: I'm personally enjoying the amount of back and forth and participation, but I know that level already is too much for some people to handle (I've been there in terms of both time constraints and commitment) I'm worried about people, especially the ones here not looking for 5+ pages of one third of day one to read, getting fed up with the amount. Plus, I know that at some point I won't be able to follow that level of analysis too. I think there's a limit we need to put on bigger games, but I have no clue where that would be, so I leave it to the, well, forum.
    Re: Day One Analysis

    I think there should always be some sort of analysis or at least vote watching Day 1. I love the banter and jokes as much as everybody, but they can also be on topic as well. Of course whether you will get that depends on the playerbase and the site, as it can be quite rare in some places. A limit of posts can be a good idea in some respects, as it can stop the stream of little posts, and make them into more quality, larger content posts, but it also has the possibility to restrict discussion.

    Day 1 is often a lottery, but it still provides useful information for people to use and is still part of the game. It is definitely the most laid back, but it should still be on the game. Normally I see the first half of the day be generally joking around, before it begins to be more focused on the actual lynch and who to kill or not.

    Players get eliminated prior to actually getting to play in the game. This tends to be people who have been around a lot and accrued a reputation. After all, when people are asked to generate a random number, they fail spectacularly. So what we have is not a random first few days, but a very heavily meta first few days, which are incredibly lethal to any player with a reputation for being a good analyst.

    Because analysts tend to get killed off for meta reasoning, the end of the game generally also sees very little in the way of actual analysis. This has generated an over-reliance on village power roles, which also means more are added to maintain balance. This over-reliance manifests in people waiting for seer claims or deferring completely to a network. A villager role may not be the most exciting role to draw anywhere, but here the reliance on network dynamics makes it a guarantee that you will simply be waiting in the wings lest you annoy the network. This means auto-lynches.
    I've seen this too. You can ask ATPG about his streak. He got killed a lot very early in the game, which led to him asking the mod to give him a vanilla townie role. Eventually the problem fixed itself by an honour code almost, where returning players, and recently killed veterans were generally not killed in the first two nights or so without a proper reason. New players generally aren't killed early either.

    I don't know if that is a proper solution to what you have, but when people get killed early all the time, it really ruins the fun of the player, and makes them less likely to join games.

  12. - Top - End - #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Visor View Post
    I've seen this too. You can ask ATPG about his streak. He got killed a lot very early in the game, which led to him asking the mod to give him a vanilla townie role. Eventually the problem fixed itself by an honour code almost, where returning players, and recently killed veterans were generally not killed in the first two nights or so without a proper reason. New players generally aren't killed early either.

    I don't know if that is a proper solution to what you have, but when people get killed early all the time, it really ruins the fun of the player, and makes them less likely to join games.
    For the most part, we keep an "honor code" intact. At least, I don't like killing new players, and I'm always arguing against it. I know it happens sometimes, but I hate to see when it does. firedaemon33 is an example of this; died first in their first game, didn't come back for nearly a year.

    Most of us don't kill new players, and most of us are against killing people who haven't played for a while.

    We do, however, end up with a lot of "killing the same people first" phases. There was a "kill Penguinator first" phase, a "kill Count Dingdong first" phase, a "kill BasketofPuppies first" phase... Which, in part, stem from different people playing different games. Wolves in one game where someone died first might not have played in a game where another player just died first. But, it gets old.


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    Default Re: The Pub: Off-topic chat for forum gamers

    For sure. And sometimes you just plain forget. I suppose the best that can happen is that it is brought to attention and hope the correct decision is made.

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    Default Re: The Pub: Off-topic chat for forum gamers

    I enjoy Day 1 analysis, and in recent games it really seems to be paying dividends: the amount of wolves that have been nailed first day recently is astounding. The only time I'm annoyed by it is when I've been gone for several days, and pushed for time, and have about 12 pages of analysis to read for a single game, knowing that if I drop in a random vote I'm probably going to be jumped on for it.


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    Default Re: The Pub: Off-topic chat for forum gamers

    Quote Originally Posted by banjo1985 View Post
    knowing that if I drop in a random vote I'm probably going to be jumped on for it.
    But you didn't!


    Ramsus's mention of a game where he is the only villager gave me a neat idea for a standard, informed wolves game with more wolves than villagers. The trick is, you make all the vannillagers triplevoting invincible llamas. That way, despite having fewer numbers the villagers outvote the wolves and it takes longer for the wolves to murder everyone than for the villagers to lynch everyone. As bonus, the wolves then get to decide whether they want to silence people (kill them twice) or hunt for powerroles (kill people once, if they survive they're a super-vanillager and move on to the next target). And, nobody has to die on Night 1 .

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    Default Re: The Pub: Off-topic chat for forum gamers

    I would play that. PMs allowed, I assume?
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    Oh no, Duck999 is a mason.

    How can I possibly suspect you of being a wolf now? :(

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    Default Re: The Pub: Off-topic chat for forum gamers

    Probably; it's not vital to game balance either way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grue Bait View Post
    Good game, guys. Sapo, you are just too good for this.
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  18. - Top - End - #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saposhiente View Post
    Ramsus's mention of a game where he is the only villager gave me a neat idea for a standard, informed wolves game with more wolves than villagers. The trick is, you make all the vannillagers triplevoting invincible llamas. That way, despite having fewer numbers the villagers outvote the wolves and it takes longer for the wolves to murder everyone than for the villagers to lynch everyone. As bonus, the wolves then get to decide whether they want to silence people (kill them twice) or hunt for powerroles (kill people once, if they survive they're a super-vanillager and move on to the next target). And, nobody has to die on Night 1 .
    This sounds great. I would be concerned about lynches done to test how many people can vote (See the Accountant in Turf War) and possibly slippery slope. Maybe a wolf power role which can alter the lynch if it's close to tied would be good?

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    Default Re: The Pub: Off-topic chat for forum gamers

    Yeah, I've been thinking about that. The Town powerroles wouldn't triplevote, so any voting shenanigans would have a high probability of exposing them to the wolves, who know exactly how many votes are on each side. Plus, wolves would get a triplevoter of their own, and each vanilla wolf could, once per game, make their vote count double. Suddenly, they're the ones pulling voting shenanigans. Everyone's pulling voting shenanigans. Conspiracies and counter-conspiracies.
    Here's the flavor I've come up with:
    The villagers are entering into a dream world to defeat a dream goddess/dragon/whoever. The goddess fills the world with figments and shadows, and the villagers forget who is a dreamer and who is imagination. Each Day, by sheer collective force of will, they expel someone from the dream; dreamers wake up, and figments disappear. The dreamers and the goddess have triple the force of will of the figments. If they lynch the goddess, she scatters and during the night occupies another figment. Each night, the figments, under the direction of the goddess, mentally attack one of the villagers. Most villagers are strong willed enough to survive one such attack, but will succumb to coma upon a second. If the villagers can expel the goddess when she has no remaining figments to retreat to, she loses her power and everyone wakes up. If they instead are overwhelmed by her figments, they may never wake up.
    There are some who are more in tune with the dream. They can wield special powers within it, but cannot bring to bear their full force of will, with the same power as a figment during the Day, and are vulnerable to mental attacks, succumbing to just one.
    One can see through the dream's images to the true selves behind people, and is able to tell whether they are simply a figment. The goddess, however, has a solid self and cannot be distinguished from the dreamers.
    Another can erect barriers to protect people from mental attacks.
    & more

    I would like to hear from someone who likes this sort of math problem (I do, but don't have the time right now), about how if you have a bunch of stones of two different weights and the ability to take two groups of stones and weigh them to see which one has more of the heavy stones, how quickly you can determine which stones are heavy or not. (minimizing the number of measurements)
    Last edited by Saposhiente; 2014-05-30 at 12:56 AM.

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    Good game, guys. Sapo, you are just too good for this.
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    And by the way, your puzzle was one of the most interesting ones I've solved in a while. Kudos.
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    Ok so.... got a thing that needs addressing regarding whether I'm gonna stick around or if I'm going to quit playing here.

    Not sure how many of you are aware, but in the My Little Townie game there's been a bit of a situation. You can of course go look at it yourself, but I'll just draw out the bits important to what I have to say. Basically day 1 had a situation where we discussed how annoying it was that people kept trying to kill the same people in the early phases of the game over and over again. I was very vocal about how crummy this behavior was. Then the wolf team killed Murska night 1. So yeah, that was crummy and I hope that stops.

    But that's not what I'm discussing here really. Because of this, I had a situation where, unless I'm willing to lie about pretty much absolutely anything, I could not be a wolf. As those of you who have seen me play in the past, you should know that when I stand up against some kind of issue I think has a meta-game effect (an effect on all the games we play here, not just a single one), I'm actually standing up for it and it's not just a tactic. The important part there was the word should. Apparently this isn't the case. In the case of newer people, whatever, they don't know me, so that's fine. But it's really hurtful to me that people that have played with me a long time still apparently think I would lie about things that could damage people's ability to enjoy all games here just so I could have an advantage in a single game. (Because long story short, not a single power role trusted me enough to contact me.) Anyway, I'm not saying this here to try to convince anyone in that game whether or not I'm a wolf.

    That was still just part of me setting up the required information. So when I made my statement to this effect after someone in a network that had formed without me who claimed I was a wolf, Saposhiente, a player in reserve who had already been told to stop posting in the game and attempting to cause drama, came in and began harassing me about it. Going so far as to claim we should not have integrity. (As opposed to saying we shouldn't expect people to have any, which I still personally think is wrong.) I made it as clear to him that I could that I didn't appreciate this and wanted to stop discussing the issue and at some point in there became a bit upset. Combined with my previous reason for being upset (what I view as people basically thinking I have no moral compass of any kind, while I have always stated otherwise) this led me to declare that after the games I am currently in finish (or at least finish with me) that I would be leaving.

    After some time to cool down a bit I went and look at the roster of the My Little Townie game a realized that there were only 3-4 people or so who weren't in fact pretty new to me and thus really wouldn't have a frame of reference about whether or not they should trust me. (I'm still pretty hurt by the few people who should have though.) Anyway, I've decided to give the forum another shot based pretty much around one thing.

    Maybe I was wrong and in future games people will give me a fair shot, or maybe I was right. That I can spare the effort and time to find out. However, I made it clear to Saposhiente before the start of the Toy Story game that I was worried he would resume harassing me as he had been before I quit playing werewolf games before. (And that in combination with the fact the people didn't speak out against his behavior was a major factor for why I had left.) And yet, he not only attacked me in the Toy Story game after I tried my best to give him a fair shot and be supportive of him while other people were getting annoyed at his behavior there, he then went and began harassing me in the My Little Townie game (the circumstances of which I've already described and are in the recent posts of that game if anyone cares to look). I made it clear to him that his behavior is causing me to not want to be here. So, the only way at this point I'm going to stick around, is that if you guys make it clear that treating people in ways that makes them feel like these games are more hurtful than fun and that they need to leave to escape such behavior, isn't an ok way to act.

    And before anyone asks, yeah I reported his more rude and insulting posts to the mods. They might censor his comments, maybe give him another warning, whoop de doo. That doesn't solve the issue. Last time around they slapped us both with warning and didn't do anything else and clearly this wasn't enough to teach Saposhiente the lesson that his behavior wasn't acceptable or I wouldn't be making this post.

    So I guess, long story short. Either I see some kind of assurance that I can play without getting harassed so much I can't have fun, or I'm leaving to spend my time doing things I'll be allowed to enjoy. I'd still prefer to play these games with most of you, but there's no point in that if I can't have fun because not only will I not be having fun, I'll likely wind up making things less fun for other people in the process too.
    Last edited by Ramsus; 2014-05-31 at 05:05 AM.

  21. - Top - End - #141
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    Default Re: The Pub: Off-topic chat for forum gamers

    Hope you don't mind an outsiders perspective, I've been following the games here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramsus View Post
    But that's not what I'm discussing here really. Because of this, I had a situation where, unless I'm willing to lie about pretty much absolutely anything, I could not be a wolf. As those of you who have seen me play in the past, you should know that when I stand up against some kind of issue I think has a meta-game effect (an effect on all the games we play here, not just a single one), I'm actually standing up for it and it's not just a tactic. The important part there was the word should. Apparently this isn't the case. In the case of newer people, whatever, they don't know me, so that's fine. But it's really hurtful to me that people that have played with me a long time still apparently think I would lie about things that could damage people's ability to enjoy all games here just so I could have an advantage in a single game. (Because long story short, not a single power role trusted me enough to contact me.) Anyway, I'm not saying this here to try to convince anyone in that game whether or not I'm a wolf.

    The problem is, this is mafia/werewolf, a game where lying and trickery is encouraged, often on both sides. And often it is hard to trust people. I've played the game for years and still find it hard to trust people in this game, especially when it comes to networking. Often I am the center and do all the distribution with only letting a very select few if any into the inner workings. I've broken enough and seen enough networking, as well as failed at making them numerous times. These things happen, sometimes you don't seem trustworthy. It happens and it sucks to be on the receiving end but sometimes there isn't much you can do about it.

    That was still just part of me setting up the required information. So when I made my statement to this effect after someone in a network that had formed without me who claimed I was a wolf, Saposhiente, a player in reserve who had already been told to stop posting in the game and attempting to cause drama, came in and began harassing me about it. Going so far as to claim we should not have integrity. (As opposed to saying we shouldn't expect people to have any, which I still personally think is wrong.) I made it as clear to him that I could that I didn't appreciate this and wanted to stop discussing the issue and at some point in there became a bit upset. Combined with my previous reason for being upset (what I view as people basically thinking I have no moral compass of any kind, while I have always stated otherwise) this led me to declare that after the games I am currently in finish (or at least finish with me) that I would be leaving.

    A player who isn't in the game (including reserves) should really not post in the game thread, is my opinion on that matter. Re: moral compass, trust is quite unlikely.

    After some time to cool down a bit I went and look at the roster of the My Little Townie game a realized that there were only 3-4 people or so who weren't in fact pretty new to me and thus really wouldn't have a frame of reference about whether or not they should trust me. (I'm still pretty hurt by the few people who should have though.) Anyway, I've decided to give the forum another shot based pretty much around one thing.

    The thing is, these people aren't you, and can't take you at face value because this is a game about lies and deceit.

    Maybe I was wrong and in future games people will give me a fair shot, or maybe I was right. That I can spare the effort and time to find out. However, I made it clear to Saposhiente before the start of the Toy Story game that I was worried he would resume harassing me as he had been before I quit playing werewolf games before. (And that in combination with the fact the people didn't speak out against his behavior was a major factor for why I had left.) And yet, he not only attacked me in the Toy Story game after I tried my best to give him a fair shot and be supportive of him while other people were getting annoyed at his behavior there, he then went and began harassing me in the My Little Townie game (the circumstances of which I've already described and are in the recent posts of that game if anyone cares to look). I made it clear to him that his behavior is causing me to not want to be here. So, the only way at this point I'm going to stick around, is that if you guys make it clear that treating people in ways that makes them feel like these games are more hurtful than fun and that they need to leave to escape such behavior, isn't an ok way to act.

    And before anyone asks, yeah I reported his more rude and insulting posts to the mods. They might censor his comments, maybe give him another warning, whoop de doo. That doesn't solve the issue. Last time around they slapped us both with warning and didn't do anything else and clearly this wasn't enough to teach Saposhiente the lesson that his behavior wasn't acceptable or I wouldn't be making this post.

    So I guess, long story short. Either I see some kind of assurance that I can play without getting harassed so much I can't have fun, or I'm leaving to spend my time doing things I'll be allowed to enjoy. I'd still prefer to play these games with most of you, but there's no point in that if I can't have fun because not only will I not be having fun, I'll likely wind up making things less fun for other people in the process too.

    Bolding mine.

    We all get annoyed or angry at certain times playing this game. People can say things that piss you off, players can sabotage an effort, people can do things, etc. I've certainly said things I regret playing this game. However at the end of the day it is just a game, really. Life goes on and all that.

    Apologies in advance for rambling writing and offtopicness, I don't plan posts out ahead of time, and they are quite often a jumbled mess.

    You guys also write far too nicely with too many syllables to be harrassing.
    Last edited by Visor; 2014-05-31 at 05:44 AM.

  22. - Top - End - #142
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    Default Re: The Pub: Off-topic chat for forum gamers

    Alright, first:

    {{scrubbed}}

    Next up we have a quote from My Little Pony WW that I think captures the crux of the immediate issue:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramsus View Post
    If you are a wolf you flat out lied about your meta behavior and I would find that disgusting.
    @Ramsus: You have a fairly amazing ability to have your meta express itself almost completely identically in every game I've seen you play, whether you are wolf, vanillager or town PR. Most of us can't do this and therefore have to rely, to varying degrees, on obscuring our meta behavior if we are to have any chance as wolves. This means we will flat out lie about that behavior and often lie about its source. If we did not do this, the game would be unplayable and broken in favor of town. Because of this, we expect other people to lie about their meta, and in this case anyone claiming that their meta provides any kind of proof about themselves is going to be seen as suspicious, no matter how sincere that person is.

    I'm not going to go into the other auxiliary issues, as I'm not part of the still ongoing game and do not want to impact it.
    Last edited by Mark Hall; 2014-06-03 at 11:01 AM.
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  23. - Top - End - #143
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    Default Re: The Pub: Off-topic chat for forum gamers

    As a sidenote, if someone were to say 'I would never kill Murska in this situation', and then kill me immediately afterwards, and then get people to believe him innocent based on that, I would applaud. That's how you're supposed to play.
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    I say we completely leave our fate in the hands of the trustworthy Murska and continue in complete safety.

  24. - Top - End - #144
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    Default Re: The Pub: Off-topic chat for forum gamers

    {{scrubbed}}
    Last edited by Mark Hall; 2014-06-03 at 10:59 AM.

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    Good game, guys. Sapo, you are just too good for this.
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  25. - Top - End - #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murska View Post
    As a sidenote, if someone were to say 'I would never kill Murska in this situation', and then kill me immediately afterwards, and then get people to believe him innocent based on that, I would applaud. That's how you're supposed to play.
    This. Is. WEREWOLF!!!!

    Maybe I should try this sometime. But usually I let the experienced players get lynched because they live too long.

    Saposhiente: Non players should not post in game thread, as should ghosts only post a non-commiting good bye like in the rules of the toy story game.

    And to Ramsus and my little townie specifically, I was a bit pissed about your reaction to my first day point and therefore my second (or third) reply was a bit... sarcastic. Mostly I meant that if your reaction on my point leads to my lynch then I will laugh because you just lynched the baner.
    Actually your reaction to my point made it impossible for me to form a network with you. So, your behaviour on day 1 prevented you from forming a network in favour of town/wolves/your side.
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  26. - Top - End - #146
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    @Zeb: Huh? What? I guess I'm gonna have to go back and check that as right now I don't even remember us interacting in that game (my memory kinda sucks).

    @TBF: That is very enlightening. I really had no idea this was the case and it was very confusing to me why people were in my view just choosing to be occasionally detrimental to the community solely for temporary personal gain. On the plus side, we have something like this so at least maybe people will discuss those issues outside of a game and maybe make some progress on tackling certain issues. Also thanks for addressing the issue I actually wanted there to be a discussion about.

    @Visor: Don't mind at all.

    In general: I wasn't trying to get people to discuss the people not trusting me for meta-reasons thing but ok. Even if that's not how other people can play, I don't see how it's reasonable for people to get mad at me for being able to do so or to tell me the way I play is wrong.

  27. - Top - End - #147
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    Default Re: The Pub: Off-topic chat for forum gamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Murska View Post
    As a sidenote, if someone were to say 'I would never kill Murska in this situation', and then kill me immediately afterwards, and then get people to believe him innocent based on that, I would applaud. That's how you're supposed to play.
    Yeah, I agree with this.

    I also know that it's VERY difficult to remember this is just a game, and people are just playing it how they play. It is very hard to just let stuff roll off, but it's something I keep trying (and often failing) to do. Hopefully things will work out...
    Long live the Ceikatar!

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  28. - Top - End - #148
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    @Zar (again): Oh right. I remember now. I'm still not sure why you got so upset about that. So yeah, I don't really get why that's a reason you wouldn't trust me later. But you don't need to explain it. If that's just how you are, then that's how you are I guess.

    That said, wow, it hasn't been that long, but thanks to all the mess I forgot that there was RP in that game. And that was pretty much the reason I signed up in the first place. The whole thing basically made the whole game feel really hostile to me instead of something to be enjoyed.

    Also I guess I should say I'm not responding to anything Sapo says about this issue. I know full well how it would end even if I have points I feel are relevant.
    Edit: I should also note that it's actually difficult for me to refrain from replying to him, but I don't want to cause more drama, so I'm putting in as much effort as I can.

    @Emerald: My issue isn't knowing whether or not it's just a game. My issue right now is that I'm being harassed and I need to know it's going to stop if I'm to be able to continue playing games here and have fun.
    Last edited by Ramsus; 2014-05-31 at 01:37 PM.

  29. - Top - End - #149
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    Default Re: The Pub: Off-topic chat for forum gamers

    Ramsus: From an outsider's perspective, it feels like you react badly often when someone points at you or says something negative about you in context of the game. It's difficult to know when someone's being genuine when they do that, given that emotional reactions are an important class of lying and manipulation that one needs to master. But in my experience, however obvious it seems to me that I'm on Town side or that working with me is beneficial (I've seen this a lot at Diplomacy games), other people see these things from a drastically different viewpoint, and can trust people or distrust people in cases where it looks completely insane to me to do that. And this is coming from someone who is self-admittedly pretty darn good at getting others to have the kind of reaction I want.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xihirli View Post
    I say we completely leave our fate in the hands of the trustworthy Murska and continue in complete safety.

  30. - Top - End - #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramsus View Post
    @Emerald: My issue isn't knowing whether or not it's just a game. My issue right now is that I'm being harassed and I need to know it's going to stop if I'm to be able to continue playing games here and have fun.
    Sorry, my comment wasn't really meant to be at you, more of a comment of something I have to tell myself to remember. I've had some issues even since coming back where I was irritated to the point of wanting to quit games. It's why I quit playing these ages ago. I'd even only intended to come back for the one game, and then got caught up again.

    Ramsus, I'm sorry you are feeling harassed, and that it's gotten to the point that it has. And know that there's nothing wrong with stepping back for awhile. Sometimes it can make it more fun when you come back.
    Long live the Ceikatar!

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