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Thread: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.
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2015-01-21, 04:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.
I see no problem with that.
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2015-01-22, 10:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.
Hmm. Yeah, I could imagine rolling the Caribbean culture into European, depending on how deeply they've been assimilated. They'd still have to fit under the European over-culture.
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2015-01-22, 02:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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2015-01-23, 09:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.
My Homebrew
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2015-01-27, 11:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.
Just a brief interjection: I was thinking about the different kinds of spirits, and the possibility of a different kind of spirits for slimes/aberrations, and the idea for them having a different 'spirit world' thing,
I was thinking that, basically, we only have the four types of life spirits. Dragons, magical beasts, and oozes make up the fourth type. Aberrations have souls, as far as anyone can tell, as they can be raised or resurrected normally, and mystics can feel the soul depart the mortal plane... but nobody's ever seen an aberration spirit. They never arrive on the spirit world, and all attempts to contact aberration spirits fail. Nobody knows where they go, what they do, how they go there and return... It's the way things work, so most don't spend too much time thinking about it, but it's just a creepy little detail for the world.My Homebrew
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2015-01-27, 11:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.
The catholics would call them sine anima ("without soul" in Latin). Perhaps we can call them "shades", which are psychic impressions on the world, instead of souls or spirits.
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2015-01-27, 01:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.
We still need a name for those spirits right?
Maybe something with Aether in it, the fifth classical element.
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2015-01-27, 02:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.
I think one thing to emphasize about most things that would be considered aberrations here is that they tend towards primal entities. Hundun, the celestial dog, the greek primordial deities (not the Titans, the Protogenoi), Tiamat and Ymir and all the rest. Most aberrations in this setting are connected to the general mythos of them being around before the rest of the world, and then the gods come in and killing them. Perhaps that should be a good underlying narrative for any shaman or wizard who's dealing with some sort of aberration creature; they're not all Ia Ia'ing all over the place (although if a certain New England town is mentioned, I'm not complaining), but rather they're the ones who were around before.
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2015-01-27, 02:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.
I like Protogenoi for a name. Perhaps a really high Religion role reveals that slain Protogenoi go to their ancestral homes outside of existence.
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2015-01-27, 07:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.
It is a good perspective to keep in mind. They're incredibly ancient and strange and nobody's quite sure where exactly they come from... But that doesn't necessarily mean they're evil. Blue/orange morality in a lot of cases.
Protogenoi sounds cool, I admit, but I think it doesn't quite fit with the other spirit names.
You know... Aether has some serious potential. But I think it could better be used for the name of the dragon/magical beast/ooze spirit type. It says 'magical', without being quite so blunt as 'mystic', it's one word, and it seems to fit the theme. They're all creatures that depend upon magic as a fundamental part of their existence. Ancestor, Aether, Beast, Wood. Spirits of the Aether. Aether spirits. I'm pretty keen on it.My Homebrew
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2015-01-27, 08:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.
Personally, I've always disliked blue/orange morality--telling people that beings are greater than them isn't going to stop people from judging them, especially if it's coming from the beings themselves.
As far as primal entities, that's a bit vague. Some primal entities that were around since the beginning (and were later more or less replaced by other gods when it came to meddling in mortal affairs) were still worshiped.
Also, in this setting, do the gods actually exist in any form? I know spirit beasts do, but that's a far cry from the Greek gods actually existing.Terra Chronos -- A world where continents shift in the dreaming of ancient gods.
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2015-01-27, 08:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.
I personally, think of it as being "below" good and evil myself, being so warped that you can't really make a conscious choice as to where you fit on the axis or even properly express a morality or ideal, but that's not what this room is for.
Personally, the only thing I that only makes me disagree with Aether is that it's... I dunno, heavenly sounding, if you get my drift? While this works for magical beasts and dragons, it does not work for oozes, at least, not the way I envision them. They are kinda... out there, more alien and far less relateable than magical beasts and dragons because they are a singular entity. Oozes... can vary.
Perhaps it might be a good idea to make oozes their own seperate thing? Name them Progenetori as Mith suggested as a name?
Primordial would work good too, if you want to emphasis the whole ancient theme.Last edited by Almarck; 2015-01-27 at 08:43 PM.
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2015-01-27, 10:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.
Name them Progenetori as Mith suggested as a name?
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2015-01-27, 11:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.
Okay, wait, I'm confused about which we're talking about at the moment. When you mention a group with a provisional name, you have to specify the types going into it, because they're all interchangeable as of yet.
Aberrations
I don't even think we have to have a name for this group, since, if we go with the 'they don't go to the spirit world and nobody's ever seen one', they wouldn't be a thing. Plus, if the group just consists of aberrations, we could just say 'Aberrant' spirits and call it good.
As much as I like protogenoi as a word, it doesn't fit all aberrations, and it doesn't fit the theme of other life-spirit group names.
Also, I wouldn't say blue/orange morality is above or below human morality. It's just completely foreign, assigning values of 'good' and 'bad' in ways we wouldn't imagine without such an encounter. Think star trek alien (the really alien ones, not the people with funny foreheads). They may not even have the concepts necessary to understand morality as we know it. Would a hive-mind be able to grasp the idea of individuality? Personal freedom? The merits of diversity?
But that's a whole can of morality-worms I don't really want to open.
Magical Beasts/Dragons
Arrg, I'm never gonna find a word that works...
It's gotta be a single noun, it's got to imply magic, but shouldn't imply unreality (like 'legend' or 'myth'). It also can't be... what's the word, conjugated? It can't be descriptive, it's got to be a stand-alone noun, like 'monster' rather than 'monstrous'.
Oozes
I dunno, honestly, I think of oozes as beings composed almost entirely of magic. Maybe they started as fungi or something, but at this point, they're heavily infused with the supernatural.
Gods
I don't know anymore. I wanted to have all deity-power entities exist in the Beyond, and only function through intermediary servants on the spirit world. But the problem is, where do you draw the line? What's a powerful spirit and what's a god? And how does dwelling beyond interact with deities that interact with mortals frequently? There's tons of stuff about holy men and supernatural entities that have contact with the divine. For instance, Sedna is a goddess in Inuit myth. She has no fingers, and periodically, her hair becomes so tangled she withholds the souls of fish from returning to life. When that happens, shamans must visit her underwater realm to comb her hair. If she dwelled beyond, that would be a one-way trip. And what about Zeus' infamous horndoggery?My Homebrew
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2015-01-28, 12:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.
It could be that the gods exist mostly beyond, with connections in the Spirit World, and a minor appearance in the physical world that has faded since the around the time of the Flood (Flood stories are found all over the world IIRC) in Europe, that is. Perhaps the New World had them stick around a bit longer. During the time of the gods, the Links were a lot more active, allowing for the deeper Links that go to the deepest part of the Spirit World and even Beyond to open. This allowed the gods to have a more physical presence on the plane. Now, the gods do not have a strong of a presence on Earth, finding it nearly impossible to manifest on Earth directly, having to use followers to impress their will on the world. The more abstract the deity, the more difficult they find to directly affect the world, and triumph of one religion over others also detracts from the losing deity's waning influence. But they never completely go away...
Hopefully that makes a bit of sense to people. By "abstract" I mean deities like Gaia, Tartarus, Nyx, Braham, Ra, YHWH, and others that are so broadly defined that they find it difficult to manifest on this plane. They exist father Beyond then the more than the "physical" deities. "Physical deities have more easily defined aspects that means that they find it easier to walk the Spirit world and material plane, although they still need mortal faith to gain the strength to influence the world. Examples: Coyote, Odin, Zeus, Horus.
So the multi-generational stories of most "pagan" religions can simply be that the older generation found it more difficult to manifest thier will on the mortal plane than the younger, more "physical" deities that eventually replaced them as they became more popular among the mortal following.
If that doesn't work out, you can always go "there is no different between a strong spirit and a god. At least not one that we can tell" that existed in some cultures, where the lines became really fuzzy. But I think my first idea can be fleshed out to work.
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2015-01-28, 12:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.
I'd suggest that Oozes and Aberrations would both be in that category of 'no souls'.
I'd have it as 'Most powerful spirits exist in the Beyond, but the Abrahamic deity mostly interacts with the world through the his angels, the most powerful of which would be treated with just as much power as any of the chief spirits'. I'd think that covers a lot of the issues inherent in the 'all myths are real' concept.
The Greek gods are probably still around, actually, but severely weakened. Not dead, but eternal lying; they're still referred to by many, so they're not entirely dead. The various species associated with them, however, are probably very rare, now.
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2015-01-28, 03:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.
I'm not really a fan of aberrations having no souls.
They're incredibly weird, very creepy looking and people will probably run just from the sight of them. But none of that means they can't have a soul. And remember that we're going to have aberrations from the mythologies of a lot of cultures and many of these creatures were part of the normal mythology of those cultures. Often created by their gods, or accidental offspring of those gods or whatever.
Oozes not having a soul i could understand
So i would keep Aberrations, Magical Beasts and Dragons in one group and give that group and their spirits a name.
Of all the names suggested i still like Aether the most. In fact, Aether i've read up on it and Aether is starting to fit really good. Aether was supposed to be the only of the classical elements that didn't move linear. Aether was located in the celestial regions and heavenly bodies (planets, moons etc.) and it moved circular.
S Spiral moves Circular....
We could tie the Aberrations, Magical Beasts and Dragons in with the Spirals by using the fifth element Aether. These creatures draw part of their power from the Spirals. They're not in-tune with the Spirals like Spiritbeasts and they can't use the 4th ring Links (Didn't we change this name? What was it again?) like those Spiritbeasts.
This would also work out great with our history: after Pompeii blew up and the Eurasian Spirals were badly damamged, these creatures were probably injured as well. Or maybe they lost a lot of power. Maybe some of their power even got sucked out of them to keep the Spirals up and running. Maybe a lot of them got killed. Whatever it was, it became a lot easier for humans to hunt and kill these Aberrations, Magical Beasts and Dragons.
It's also a reason these creatures are so keen on moving to the New World, it's like they're finally able to breathe again after a long festering disease.
Question: are there constructs in the setting?
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2015-01-28, 06:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.
Could be that gods are very much still around, but by mutual agreement... they don't really get to do much. Zeus can pop down to the mortal world to have sex with one of his worshipers, sure, but he can't do anything major (not anymore, anyway) because then you have his Greek rivals responding by also using all their flashy powers and all, and then the Egyptian gods do the same thing, and oh look someone inched their toe over the border, and before you know it the entire place is a blasted wasteland because Sekhmet's eaten everyone.
So no god actually does anything particularly blatant. Sedna can hang out at the bottom of the ocean, but she can't command marine animals to smash the ships of the Europeans, because then their god would retaliate.
Mutually Assured Destruction, divine edition.Terra Chronos -- A world where continents shift in the dreaming of ancient gods.
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2015-01-28, 09:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.
Deities
This is a tough topic, I admit.
How about this: All deities have the power to travel to the beyond and back. The more powerful ones find this trip easier, but it's never easy. Whether a deity decides to reside on one side of the barrier or the other is a matter of choice. Many prefer to dwell beyond, presumably among the souls of their followers, and leaving the vast majority of their mortal and spirit world operations to powerful spiritual lieutenants. Others prefer to dwell on the spirit world, and have a more personal hand in the lives of their followers and the matters of the mortal world.
As to interacting with the mortal world, I would say we could probably have a sort of mutually-assured-destruction arrangement going on. Directly interfering with the followers of other gods, there's no official sort of rule banning it, but it invites conflict, and most don't like to directly tangle with other gods. Some have done so in the past (see Olympians v. Titans, or Tuatha de Danann v. Fomorians), but it's a very rare, and EXTREMELY destructive sort of conflict. Instead, most handle conflict via intermediaries. Proxy wars via armies of the faithful, Chosen, or in rare cases, actual outsiders.
Regarding creation myths: No existing deity actually created the world. Some may have created landmasses, or shaped the progress of certain regions. Typically, these accomplishments are attributed to the deities by overzealous followers, though some actually try to claim credit for all of creation.
Regarding authority: Deities can act on any part of the mortal world from the spirit world. However, it's much, much easier to do so in spirals in which they have followers, the more they have, the easier it is.
Aberrations
Nobody's saying they wouldn't have souls. By my proposal, they have souls, and via magical effects that interact with souls, it can be inferred that they function much like normal souls. Those souls just don't seem to appear on the spirit world, and there are no outsiders that represent aberrations. Nobody knows where they go or what happens there, and the aberrations don't seem to be interested in sharing what they know on the topic.
Oozes
I think oozes pretty much have to have souls. If plants have souls, and even rocks and wind have spiritual beings associated with them, then oozes have to have souls.
Magical Beasts/Dragons
I'm still rather fond of Aether as the word for 'em at this point. It's got a lot of good tie-ins.
Constructs
Yes, constructs exist. They're certainly not commonplace, though.
Spirals
And it comes back to the spirals yet again. We're getting pretty close to a unified theory of magic at this point.
I'm really gonna have to sit down and write a thing about how magic and spirals and such things work.My Homebrew
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2015-01-28, 10:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.
Originally Posted by Admiral Squish
There is a vague map, but it's a little old. I'll see what I can do about an update.
As I mentioned, I may have a few ideas about Columbia, but I wanted to take a good look at your map before I dive in.
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2015-01-28, 10:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.
My Homebrew
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2015-01-28, 12:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.
Okay, thanks--this should be enough to work with.
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2015-01-28, 02:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.
Spirals and Magic
We are indeed getting close to a unified magic theory. I've got some thoughts on this:
The Spirals are like tectonic plates. They push and shove against each other, they grow and shrink, they move over the surface of the earth. People just don't notice this because they move very slow, it takes centuries. But all this slow movement of the Spirals against each other does produce a LOT of energy. That energy gets released into the elements along the edges of the spiral and seeps into the world. The energy gets taken in by everything, from living creatures to stones to the air to crafted items. Some things have more magic in them than others. Any excess energy floating around eventually seeps back into the earth to become part of the world again.
This magical energy floating through the world is available to all those able to tap into it. All the creatures on the Earth that use this energy barely make a dent in the amount of energy floating around. There's just that much energy coming from the Spirals.
This also fits nicely with what happened to the Eurasian Spirals. When the Romans tampered with the Pompeii Nexus and the Spirals started to fail that sucked a lot of the magical energy floating around back into the Spirals.
The Phoenixes then sacrificed themselves to erupt Mount Vesuvius and use the power of the tectonic earth plates to jumpstart the Eurasian Spirals again.
Things to think about:
- Transatlantic, trans-saharan and any other Spiral that Links from Eurasia to a place that wasn't affected by Pompeii.
These Links got cut off completely right. And they've only recently gotten active again. I think we should very carefully choose wich places can Link across the ocean. We've got Kaya Salina. So perhaps add one Link to a place in Vinland and one Link to a place in Brazil and that's it. 3 Links across the ocean and nothing more, the Spirals have only just reconnected and the whole thing is still a bit weak.
- the Spirals reconnecting, we should established when and how this happened. Did somebody do it or was it a natural process?
Constructs
If there are constructs, are we talking about full clockwork constructs because 1750 tech isn't up to that and changing the tech level to include clockwork constructs is going to have a very significant effect on the world.
I'm asking this because i was thinking about adding a Jewish ghetto to Kaya Salina guarded by Golems. I'm not entirely sure it would fit Kaya Salina, but a Jewish Ghetto protected by Golems could be added to another city as well. Could be an interesting place.
Aberrations
Untraceable souls. Yeah, that's better.
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2015-01-28, 05:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.
Constructs
I'm not talking about clockwork constructs, no. We're definitely not looking at robots. Constructs are, at least for now, more akin to animated objects than mechanical beings. Statues that have been imbued with life, in most cases, made of clay, stone, metal, wood, and other materials.My Homebrew
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2015-01-28, 07:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.
- the Spirals reconnecting, we should established when and how this happened. Did somebody do it or was it a natural process?
Also, would we want to put a Link to be trans-Pacific, so that we have a Link to Europe, a Link to Middle East, and a Link to Asia.
ALso, I would expect most constructs to be Golems.
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2015-01-29, 02:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.
Connecting spirals
I think it's a very slow human process, reconnecting spirals. It requires a suitable site, a sizable population of an old-world culture nearby, and some rather powerful spellcasters cultivating the site over a long period of time.
Basically, you have to find a site with a deep link that has the potential to develop into a proper link, which you pretty much have to stumble upon, since there's no way to locate it with normal magic. Then... well, imagine building a mountain by pulling the ground up. Making the aether connect is not easy. And even if you DO get it working, you don't have any control over where it actually will lead, you just have to find it out the old-fashioned way. Spellcasters and scholars might be able to figure out which spiral you're going to end up in, maybe even a general sort of area. But you probably couldn't name the country accurately before it opens.
Map
Ugh... I just realized, I'm going to need to make three separate maps. We're gonna need a political map, a cultural map, and a spiral map.My Homebrew
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2015-01-31, 09:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.
Hello, thread! I've got a couple sizable topics to talk about:
Chosen
The chosen is done! I just finished the last calling last night, and while I am definitely going to want to go through and standardize some language/change the terms/write up some nice fluff for everything, it is in fact playable at this very moment! On-time and everything!
Priest
Up next on the docket is priest! This one should be relatively quick to get done, but I'm trying to come up with a list of doctrines that would cover all the bases, and would allow a player to make a priest that could fit into any religion they could imagine. It's an intimidating task, I admit, so I'd love to hear what sort of options you folks would like to see in the class. I suspect I'm going to spend some significant time trawling through wikipedia for major values of different religions, but any help people could offer would be greatly appreciated.
Skype
It's the last weekend of the month! Also, the first weekend of the new month, but it's not a full weekend, so it doesn't count. which means that the monthly skype call will take place next weekend!
The current plan is the same as usual: Saturday the 7th, 3:00 PM E.S.T. If this doesn't work for anybody, let me know and we can probably reschedule to some time that works for everybody.
This month's topic: Starting finishing. We're gonna have to start getting setting details set in stone pretty soon if we want something playable by the end of the year. So, we're gonna talk about what needs to be decided fluff-wise, what needs to change, and what we can do to make it happen on-time.My Homebrew
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2015-02-02, 02:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.
Hey guys, how's this list sound for the priest doctrines/dogmas:
Benevolence: Give kindness and aid to those who need it.
Contemplation: Meditate on the self and the divine.
Joy: Experience happiness, avoid pain, and share joy with the world.
Justice: Obey the law, punish criminals, and seek truth in all things.
Labor: Throw one’s self into labor and work to improve the world.
Mindfulness: Be in the moment, thoughtful and calm.
Mission: Share the word and of the divine far and wide, and bring others to the faith.
Praise: Offer thanks to the divine, in the form of regular prayer or sacrifices.
Protection: Protect others from threats, physical and otherwise
Purity: Keep self and others pure in the face of corruption, such as wealth, intoxicants, or sex.
Understanding: Become closer to the divine by studying their creation, texts, and stories.
Unity: Respect and connect with all of creation, one’s fellow beings, and avoid violence.My Homebrew
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2015-02-02, 04:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.
I think that would work. The only thing I can think of to add is Passion, or something to deal with chaotic emotions. Think of the Dionysus Mystery cults. It can help with the more individualistic sects that may arise, and provide a nice counter balance to the other dogmas.
Last edited by Mith; 2015-02-02 at 05:08 PM.
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2015-02-02, 05:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.
Maybe some sort of glory dogma?
Priests that want to build cathedrals or hold massive group dances or perhaps even fight battles for their god (like the Knights).
Or a theologician kind of thing, priests that hold debates or write books or try to tap into divine magic.
I should be able to attend the meeting this saturday.