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  1. - Top - End - #331
    Orc in the Playground
     
    GnomePirate

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    Default Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Admiral Squish View Post
    Planar cosmology. Effectively, there is one plane other than the material, the spirit world. It's a reflection of the world, shaped by the conscious and unconscious thoughts of all living creatures, in particular humans. Everywhere on the material world has a spiritual parallel, but there are many places on the spirit world that don't exist on the material. Entire countries that don't exist. Two or more entirely different places can exist int he same spot of the spirit world, the one you arrive at being determined by how and when you reach said spot. There may be entire vast countries that have no earthly parallel. Anywhere that people believe to be an actual place exists in this place. Every mythological being inhabits this spirit realm at once, made real by the continued belief of those of the material world. Creatures that die or astrally project their souls come here. Technically speaking, there could be an infinite number of place, or just one more, but it's impossible to tell. You see, when you 'pass on' from the spirit world, you move to another plane. But the journey is one-way, and the barrier between them is impenetrable to all but the most powerful deities, and they rarely, if ever, elaborate on the true nature of the 'Great Beyond', if it's even one place. for the most part, the spirit world is populated by shadow folk, semi-real humanoid outsiders created by human beliefs about their own groups and others, from stereotypes and tales and their own opinions of themselves. They live lives parallel to the humans they were born from beliefs about, but they have some strange aspects to them, such as all written languages being written mirrored. Also, there are ancestor spirits, the souls of the dead who refused to move on and took up a permanent residence on the spirit world. Sometimes they deform and transmute as they grow older and forgotten, but some have held onto their human forms for hundreds, even thousands of years.

    Whew! Big infodump there.

    If you want to help with monsters, check out the Call To Brew thread, where we accept public submissions in exchange for crediting people in the book when it finally comes out.

    And if you want to help with tribes and cultures, just look up a post or two, we're about to get started on discussing various non-empire-aligned groups in the north american continent, and we'd love to have some more voices contributing.

    And you can thank my brother for that comprehensive list o' monsters, it's like 90% his work. I'm sure he appreciates the kudos.
    See, this is why you always ask about things like this. When you do, you get the link to the idea forum.

    EDIT: Are there deities? I presume not, but I need confirmation. If not, I have a great monster idea.
    Last edited by ...; 2014-07-27 at 01:38 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #332
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.

    Quote Originally Posted by ... View Post
    See, this is why you always ask about things like this. When you do, you get the link to the idea forum.

    EDIT: Are there deities? I presume not, but I need confirmation. If not, I have a great monster idea.
    There are things we would identify as deities, but most of them are just very powerful spirits. Anything large enough to be a proper deity usually resides in the Great Beyond and is very rarely, if ever, heard from. The 'gods' that one might contact are probably more like divine rank 0 to maybe minor deity levels.
    My Homebrew
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  3. - Top - End - #333
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    GnomePirate

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    Default Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Admiral Squish View Post
    There are things we would identify as deities, but most of them are just very powerful spirits. Anything large enough to be a proper deity usually resides in the Great Beyond and is very rarely, if ever, heard from. The 'gods' that one might contact are probably more like divine rank 0 to maybe minor deity levels.
    It's like all my wishes are coming true!

  4. - Top - End - #334
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Admiral Squish View Post
    Well, it's been pretty quiet of late, so I'll take the hint and say we've got a basic grasp on what the colonies in north and south america look like and how they interact.

    So, we've addressed the basic details of Columbia, the Cahokian League, Fusang, Tuniitaq, and Aztatlan. I think our next step should be to hash out details of the independent groups of north america in a bit more detail, then turn our attention worldwide briefly to figure out what's going on back home in the rest of the continents. After that, we start the 'finishing' process for each area in turn.

    So, step one would be to figure out who we need to talk about now.

    Reposting the rough map for easy reference:
    Spoiler: Map
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    Hisatsinom
    We did get some pretty good work done on these guys before, but their area was pretty dramatically expanded after we stopped talking about them in the map. I think we could definitely get back into them.

    Ecology
    Here's something that I just learned in a recent documentary, in the time the Anasazi groups flourished, the are actually had some significant tree cover, pine and junioper for the most part. It's believed that a combination of climate changes and over-harvesting wiped the local forests out, devastated farmlands, and created many of the gullies and valleys of the region (the lack of trees allowed soil to erode and the increased river flow carved the valleys). The question is, does the southwest region avoid this fate and retain its trees in this timeline, possibly with the help of druidic magic to physically regrow the forests, or through supernatural guidance that causes the people to develop a more sustainable tree-harvesting practice. Or are the trees gone and the people develop some new way to feed their sizable population?

    Spain
    Another important point. Spain may never have conquered aztatlan, but they could have gone around them to the north and into the southwest region (likely moving inland along the rio grande, which was not under Aztec control at the time). If they had done so, they could well have made contact with the great plains tribes and the Hisatsinom. How they interacted could have serious repercussions into the future.

    Ganonsyoni
    We were still discussing these guys, but the conversation seemed to have been dropped when the discussion of skills arose.

    Culture
    Considering how recently the Ganonsyoni took over the great lakes region, I'm not sure how their culture and their people would interact with the original inhabitants. Would Ganonsyoni individuals be seen as brutal conquerors? Would they be accepted? Integrated? Would they be outsiders, rare individuals leading villages, or would the Ganonsyoni people have moved over in large numbers, creating their own villages and settlements? Maybe they would just be blended into the great lakes melting pot.

    Theme
    I think the fact that we have all these groups trying to get a foothold in the region, in combination with the confederated nature of their government, would allow us to focus the region's theme on intrigue and diplomacy. There would be spies and counter-spies, diplomats and ambassadors, from all different regions, all trying to gain the favor of the Ganonsyoni and simultaneously trying to get leverage on their hosts, and sabotage their competitor's attempts. It's certainly not the usual kind of setting for such play, and it would also have plenty of more traditional adventure, too, with vast stretches of wilderness that could play host to any number of enormous, terrifying monsters and beasts.

    Plateau
    This region is much less consolidated than the empires. They likely wouldn't even recognize their neighbors as allies, but I don't think there was significant warfare between the groups, either. I think, for the most part, they were mostly just nomads who rarely interacted with one-another, but there's not a great deal of information to be found. Which does allow us a bit of latitude in describing them.

    The Rockies
    This culture group is perfectly situated to deal with the Rockies. It was generally agreed upon that we would make the Rockies very dangerous, full of powerful monsters and dangerous hazards. However... we haven't really done much to make that happen in a concrete way. Thus, I propose we take the plateau culture and extend them down the main thrust of the Rockies, and use their details to describe the environment of the rocky mountains. My original thought was to make these people into something akin to the borderlanders from wheel of time, a group of very warlike, and competitive, but ultimately united group that stands against a greater threat. In this case, they would be sort of the gatekeepers of the Rockies, keeping the big beasts from descending the mountains to the lowlands where the could run amok in defenseless regions. However, that sort of dedication would require a great deal of unification, not only among themselves, but between them and the lowland groups they would be protecting. Alternately, I think we could have them be tough-as-nails nomads. They live entirely in the mountains, where few other tribes dare to go, and they regularly tangle with monsters and other hazards of the regions. For the most part, they don't interact with anyone, and the culture stresses self-reliance, but they do sometimes form escort parties that protect small groups and merchants through the mountains, for appropriate compensation. The plateau region they currently hold would be a sort of comparatively safe zone, in that it lacks the monsters and hazards, but it's a desert, so there's little in the way of food.
    I think I will have to do a lot more research on these guys before we do anything on them, though.

    Nova Rossi
    Another colonial power, but nowhere near so expansive as some of their neighbors. This area would really only be the west coast of Alaska, most of the Aleutian islands. The Russians might have a presence inland, mostly with trappers and fur-traders, but for the most part they would only really control the coastline area. The Russians would probably be mostly adversarial with the natives, who would be very thin at the time of first colonization. I will have to do more research on Russia's politics and history, certainly, but I think they wouldn't have so huge a settlement as the other colonial powers, as the vast majority of russia's cultural centers were in the west, with the east being very sparse. With the fur trade, there might be some development, but they would be starting at a much lower level of infrastructure than their competition.

    Theme
    I haven't really been able to pin down a theme for this region, honestly. The idea of prison colony's been pretty much shut down, since they do have all of siberia to work with, but I would still like to have Russian necromancers exist somewhere in the region. Perhaps it's something of a less-wholesome version of the magical exoduses elsewhere, like, there was a thriving necromancy/dark magic underground society, and the Russian authorities are finally able to crack down on them, sending them fleeing to the new world. I do think this would be a very rugged region, though, so it would probably be very... harsh. Lots of grizzled, humorless colonists fighting natives and the weather to squeeze water from a stone, or in this case, money from Alaska.

    Mesoamerican
    This is a really complex region, but I think we should try to unravel the tangle a bit. This is a land of warring neighbors, intense rivalries, culture, and civilization, based in small city-states. Think ancient Greece. I would really like to try and paint a new image of the area in the minds of the players, to change their preconceptions into a more accurate vision, but to do that, we're gonna have to get into the research and really understand all these different areas.
    Just dragging this to the new page to make sure it doesn't get lost in the shuffle.
    My Homebrew
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  5. - Top - End - #335
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    Flumph

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    Default Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.

    With crossing over to the spirit world, is the "how you get there" partly influenced by personal beliefs? So a Christian would have a really hard time reaching say Alfheim (if you are having the other 8 worlds of Scandinavian Myths with the Material Plane as Midgard as being part of the spirit world) since they don't believe that it exists.

  6. - Top - End - #336
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mith View Post
    With crossing over to the spirit world, is the "how you get there" partly influenced by personal beliefs? So a Christian would have a really hard time reaching say Alfheim (if you are having the other 8 worlds of Scandinavian Myths with the Material Plane as Midgard as being part of the spirit world) since they don't believe that it exists.
    Hm. You know, I hadn't thought about it in those lines. I think it would be possible for them to reach the area, but the path to get there might be a mystery. Like, they could get there if they had a guide, but since they wouldn't know anything about the myths of the area, they normally would be unable to find their way there in the first place.

    Though, I don't know if the realms of norse cosmology would be an option. At the time of the setting, the traditional norse religion was all but extinct.
    My Homebrew
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  7. - Top - End - #337
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.

    Okay, two things.

    Skills
    For one, I've mostly finished with the canoeing and the profession rank-swap rules. Still working on the wording of the survival changes. However, I have added a few things that weren't int he handle canoe skill, and changed a few other things. For example, now, you add your str mod x 5ft to your canoe's speed.
    Spoiler: Canoeing
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    Canoeing
    You can use swim checks to propel a canoe or other personal watercraft, such as a kayak, bull-boat, or small raft. While the basic use of a canoe is easily enough understood, it takes a certain amount of experience or training to maneuver one through more challenging situations. A character without the canoe mastery feat automatically fails any canoeing check with a DC greater than 20. Maneuvering a canoe downstream over a calm river requires no check, and it moves at the speed of the river's current. Stronger characters can propel their canes faster than the current though, increasing the canoe's speed by 5 ft per point of strength modifier. If a canoe has multiple paddlers, use the strongest character's strength modifier.

    Task DC
    Maneuver Canoe 10
    Traverse Deep Lakes 10
    Reverse Direction 15
    Right Canoe 15
    Perform 90-degree turn 20
    Traverse Low (<10 ft) Falls 20
    Traverse High (11-20 ft) Falls 30
    Traverse Perilous (21-30 ft) Falls 40
    Heavy Cargo +2
    Slow Rapids +5
    Strong Winds +5
    Swift Rapids +10
    Close Waterfall +10
    Dangerous Rapids +15

    Maneuver Canoe: Moving over the river in most situations requires no checks. However, moving through rapids, or shallow water, or avoiding a hazard, requires the canoeist to make a maneuver canoe check. This DC is modified by conditions such as a heavy load, rapids, strong winds, the presence of a waterfall, or similar. This is a full-round action. Failing such a check may end

    Traverse Deep Lakes: Deep lakes — lakes with a maximum depth of 50 feet or more — are not always as easy to cross as a slow-flowing, calm river. Deepwater lakes can have hidden currents that can take a canoe, and winds often gust over the surface of the water, creating whitecaps. One check represents up to an hour of travel, however if any other action of any type is made during that hour, another check to traverse deep lakes must be made following that action.

    Reverse Direction: Reversing direction is a difficult maneuver even in the best of conditions. The maneuver consists of first bringing the canoe to a relative stop, then working the canoe back in the other direction. The maneuver is a full-round action. If this maneuver fails, the canoe overturns, some or all cargo is spilled, and all passengers are sent into the water.

    Right Canoe: A canoe that has overturned (whether completely upside down or on its side and swamped with water) can quickly become a deadly situation. Righting an overturned canoe is not easy, but can be done. This maneuver is full-round action.

    Perform 90-Degree Turn: Like reversing direction, performing a 90 degree turn is an extremely difficult maneuver. Usually, this involves swinging the canoe crossways against either the current or the wind. Performing this maneuver is a full-round action. If this maneuver fails, the canoe overturns, some or all cargo is spilled, and all passengers are sent into the water.

    Traverse Low (<10 ft.) Falls: Some skilled canoeists are able to steer a canoe over a waterfall in such a way that the canoe does not overturn at the bottom, and no cargo is spilled. Performing this maneuver is a full-round action.

    If the maneuver fails, the canoe overturns, some or all cargo is spilled, and all passengers are sent into the water. Even if the maneuver succeeds, passengers (except the character performing the skill check) must succeed at a DC 10 Strength or Dexterity check to keep from being thrown out.

    Traverse High (11 ft. to 20 ft.) Falls: Even more difficult than falls of 10 feet or less are those waterfalls between 11 feet and 20 feet high. Performing this maneuver is a full-round action.

    If the maneuver fails, the canoe overturns, some or all cargo is spilled, and all passengers are sent into the water. Even if the maneuver succeeds, passengers (except the character performing the skill check) must succeed at a DC 15 Strength or Dexterity check to keep from being thrown out.

    Traverse Perilous (21 ft. to 30 ft.) falls: The most experienced and skilled of all canoeists are able to guide their canoes in relative safety over waterfalls between 21 feet high and 30 feet high. Performing this maneuver is a full-round action.

    If the maneuver fails, the canoe overturns, some or all cargo is spilled, and all passengers are sent into the water. Even if the maneuver succeeds, passengers (except the character performing the skill check) must succeed at a DC 20 Strength or Dexterity check to keep from being thrown out.

    Waterfalls of 31 feet or more in height cannot be safely maneuvered over.

    Heavy Load: In rapids and shallow water, the DC of a check is increased by +2 for every 100 pounds (cargo and passengers combined) in the canoe. If shallows are too low to cross, some passengers may need to get out of the canoe and wade alongside it in order for the canoe to make it.

    Slow Rapids: Shallow rapids are those with few protruding rocks and not much whitewater. Attempting to maneuver a canoe in such rapids increases the DC by +5.

    Strong Winds: Strong winds can make it more challenging to maneuver a canoe, and may even turn over a canoe that is unprepared. Attempting to maneuver a canoe in such winds increases the DC by +5.

    Swift Rapids: Swift, deep rapids are those rapids with some protruding rocks and at least a small amount of whitewater. Attempting to maneuver a canoe in such rapids increases the DC by +10.

    Close Waterfall: The pull of a waterfall is very hard to resist, and can spell disaster to an unprepared canoeist. Attempting to maneuver a canoe within 50 feet of the top of a waterfall increases the DC by +10. This DC increase does not apply if the maneuver in question is traversing the waterfall.

    Dangerous Rapids: Dangerous whitewater rapids are one of the most difficult conditions for a canoeist to maneuver through. Dangerous rapids are those rapids with many large boulders or rocks protruding from the water and more whitewater than other types of rapids. Attempting to maneuver a canoe in such rapids increases the DC by +15.


    Action: Varies, as detailed above. Generally, getting in and out of a canoe is a move action.


    Canoe Mastery
    You are experienced in maneuvering or operating a canoe, and can accomplish more challenging feats than an untrained canoeist.
    Benefits: You no longer automatically fail canoeing checks with a DC greater than 20.



    Spoiler: Profession
    Show

    Special: One's profession covers a range of widely-varied, but somewhat specific skills. When making a skill check that directly relates to a task that would be part of your profession's normal operations, you can substitute your ranks in that skill with your ranks in the profession skill. Such a check still uses the original skill's modifiers and base ability, just substituting the profession ranks for the skill's normal ranks. For example. A character with ranks in profession (sailor) would be able to use their profession ranks in place of their ranks in climb, if they were using it to climb the rigging of a ship. They would still apply any racial modifiers to climb or any item bonuses that would apply, and would still use their strength modifier for the check.


    Skype
    Two: this is the last weekend of the month, which means that according to tradition, next weekend is the crossroads skype call! The default time is Saturday, about 2 PM EST. Hopefully I'll have my computer back by then, but I can probably make this one work if strictly necessary. If anyone has a conflict with that time, let me know, and we can work out some new time. If you would like to be added to the call, please PM me with your skype info and I'll add you into the group.
    Last edited by Admiral Squish; 2014-08-02 at 12:26 PM.
    My Homebrew
    Five-time champion of the GITP monster competition!

    Current Projects:
    Crossroads: the New World: A pathfinder campaign setting about an alternate history of North America, where five empire collide in a magical land full of potential. On the road to publication!

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  8. - Top - End - #338
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.

    It's probably been quiet due to the summer silence effect. Happens on most forums and online games. No need to worry though, things will start picking up again when september comes around.

    Hisatsinom

    Ecology
    I'm going to say yes to the trees and no to using druidic magic to keep them alive. That's Cahokia all over again. Sure, it's possible they developed the same method but for the campaign setting it would be more interesting if they use different methods.
    How about the silk spiders need a diet high in juniper berries and pine foliage to increase the quality of the silk?

    Oh, and reading up on pine trees (the things i read about for this setting....) i learned that the branches of pine trees tend to grow in spirals arranged by a Fibonacci number.
    And it just so happens that spirals are how the Link system work.
    Maybe we could do something with this? Perhaps in order to start a forest fire an Embermouse can use pine trees to teleport around a forest, using the pine trees as Links and setting each tree he arrives at on fire? Or the Tuniit plant northern pine trees around their Link sites, stabilizing them for a more controlled use. Those trees need constant maintenance though because the active Link site sucks the energy out of them.

    Spain
    Idea time: what if spain owns a city within the Hisatsinom city state league? And by own i mean legitimatly. Maybe through marriage? That would work, Spain exists only because of a successfull marriage policy so it's not without precedent.
    If we place that city on the Pacific coast, it could be the Spanish stronghold there. They move goods over the Panama isthmus and into the Spanish Hisatsinom city and trade things like spider silk and Fusangese goods back.
    On the Hisatsinom council this city could be the largest competitor for Tohopeka, who delivers the leader. While the Spanish city is rich and military powerfull, Tohopeka is a religious and political center and is supported by the large majority of other Hisatsinom cities.

    Ganonsyoni

    Theme
    I actually quite like the theme. Reminds me of north Italian Machiavellian politics but in a place where players wouldn't expect it.
    I'm imagining a Ganyonsi diplomat obtaining a copy of Machiavelli's 'Il Principe' (The Prince), reading it and throwing it on the fire while having a good laugh with his tribesmen. They think the book is a bit amateuristic.
    In English society the word 'Machiavellianism' is slowly being replaced by 'Ganonsyonism'.

    Culture
    It depends, how many other (smaller?) cultures lived in that area? And were the Ganonsyoni a populous people? Could they realistically populate all that area?
    Maybe if they did the Genghis thing: after they conquer a tribe the inhabitants are given the choice to join them or die. They absorb tribe after tribe until their population is high enough to populate the region. And most of those people would be of Ganyonsi culture, with maybe a few smaller groups stubbornly sticking to their old habits.

    Russia

    Naming
    Nova Rossi doesn't fit i think. If you want to go Russian i think you should go for something like 'Russkaya Vespuccia' meaning Russian Vespuccia. Russkaya Columbia could fit as well.

    Colony
    From what i remember the Russians used Aleut natives to hunt fur for them. Well, i think they forced them.
    Oh, and the colony was never very prosperous.

    Theme
    Idea: What if the Russians don't use Alaska as a prison colony but as a place to deport annoying citizens or ethnic groups to?
    Maybe they don't care much for the unprofitable colony they've discovered so they just send large groups by Link system into the rough terrain.
    The Crimean Tatars would be a good fit for this and there are many other groups in the Russian empire that would be eligiable for deportation.
    This would create a sudden influx of large groups of desperate people into the not very densely populated northern area of Tuniitaq. A great source for conflict within the setting.

    Plateau

    Rockies
    I'm not sold on the Borderlanders-theme, why would these people throw away many lives to protect the people living on lower lands for a few goods?
    I do like the though as nails theme though. Kinda like the Fremen from the Frank Herbert's Dune.
    They live in a deathworld kinda place and that has made them very though but they have a low population. And they're not very friendly. They rarely venture out of the mountains, but if they do they're all kinds of dangerous.
    They trade a bit with the Hisatsinom and Cahokian league. And they often escort Fusangese traders through the mountains for a huge fee. But mostly they keep to themselves and are not interested in the rest of the world.

    Map

    Forgot to comment on the map when it first showed up. I'll try to give a few remarks tomorrow once i have a bit more time.

    Skype

    Might be able to make it, i'll let you know during the week.
    Do you have a list of things we're going to talk about?

  9. - Top - End - #339
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    Flumph

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    Default Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.

    Oh, and reading up on pine trees (the things i read about for this setting....) i learned that the branches of pine trees tend to grow in spirals arranged by a Fibonacci number.
    It is also true with a lot of plants. I believe that all spirals in nature are based on the Fibonacci ratio.

    As for Skype, I should be available.

  10. - Top - End - #340
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    Default Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.

    As a big fan of pretty, pretty maps i have no idea how i missed commenting on this one.
    I'm one of those people that goes over the map in a fantasy book with a fine-toothed comb to see if the thing is realistic. Luckily with a map of a real life place i don't have to deal with weirdly placed rivers and mountains. But there are a few weird border placements on this map. I've numbered them on the map, and i'll go over them one by one.



    1) This small corridor of land is all that connects Mexican Aztatlan with the Rio Grande area. But there's a very big problem with this: the Spanish and other Europeans have control over the seas. They can sever that corridor at any time. I don't see how Aztatlan could ever realistically hold on to the Rio Grande area and even threaten the lands north of their colony there while their only land connection is a small coastal corridor. On a coast where they don't have naval dominance.
    My suggestion: Move the corridor inland towards the Mexican Plateau, give the Spanish one or a few coastal cities to threaten that corridor and give the rest to independant Mesoamerican groups.

    2) The Maya civilization didn't expand at all since the year 900? It would be very weird for their borders not to have changed in 850 years.
    Also, i'd give them a land border with Aztatlan, makes for a bit more conflict.

    3) Again, these are the historical borders of the New Granada Viceroyalty. I would expand those borders a bit northward and those of the Maya a bit south until they share a land border. I'd place that border at Lake Nicaragua, the northern shore in Mayan hands and the Southern shore in Spanish hands. Lakes can be very interesting places in a setting, and a contested lake even more so.

    4) If the Fusangese control the Baja California Peninsula they should control the area until the mouth of the Colorado river as well. For the Hisatsinom to have a narrow sliver of land on the other side of a large river while Fusang controls the north, west and south of that area is not very military feasible. They'd get kicked out pretty quickly. Give them the area until the Mouth of the Colorado River and maybe a bit north along the river up to roughly the US-Mexico border.

    5) Didn't France co-own Nouveau Orléans and not Spain? If France has control over the city together with Cahokia and Cahokia owns the surrounding lands with the plains tribes backing them, i don't think Spain could realistically hold on to the area around the mouth of the Mississsippi.

    6) Does Cahokia own the Appalachians? Or does England own them? I always thought that Cahokia controlled the mountain passes but nothing more than that and that the Appalachians themselves were not owned by either group.
    Maybe we could have an independant group of natives controlling the mountains while Cahokia controls the passes? The Europeans support the natives who often raid Cahokian outposts and they often smuggle things over the mountains for them, but they're still independant. Cahokia is trying to send diplomats that way, but they're not having much success.

    7) These are the historical borders of the Haudenosaunee. Again i think that their territory would have changed a bit over the years.
    Perhaps we should have them lose a few of their more inland Southern areas, but they have gained land to the north on the shores of the Great Lakes? That would really cement them as the power over that area and give the spies, diplomats and assassins something to fight for. Whoever controls the Lakes, controls the trade.
    Also, i wouldn't give Cahokia a border to the Lakes. Limit their influence to the plains and the Mississippi river. Gives them a real drive to try and get control over the Haudenosaunee.


    Oh, and maybe for some very pretty, pretty maps to actually put in the book we could ask for help on the Cartographers Guild. It's a forum for professional and amateur map makers. Most are for fictional worlds or cities, so this is perfect for this project.
    The people on that forum often do comissions, both free and paid. But if it gets used in a book or gets published they kinda expect you to pay for it. Still, it wouldn't hurt to ask over there, maybe they're dirt cheap
    Last edited by Steckie; 2014-07-28 at 01:39 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steckie View Post
    As a big fan of pretty, pretty maps i have no idea how i missed commenting on this one.

    Oh, and maybe for some very pretty, pretty maps to actually put in the book we could ask for help on the Cartographers Guild. It's a forum for professional and amateur map makers. Most are for fictional worlds or cities, so this is perfect for this project.
    The people on that forum often do comissions, both free and paid. But if it gets used in a book or gets published they kinda expect you to pay for it. Still, it wouldn't hurt to ask over there, maybe they're dirt cheap
    *whistles innocently* I really should get back to Super Dave's PM, shouldn't I?
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    Oh, are you doing map artwork for this?
    If so, i'd love to see anything you've got for this setting. Or anything else you might have created. In case you didn't notice, i like maps. Sadly i don't have a single artistic bone in my body or i would have started making maps years ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steckie View Post
    Oh, are you doing map artwork for this?
    If so, i'd love to see anything you've got for this setting. Or anything else you might have created. In case you didn't notice, i like maps. Sadly i don't have a single artistic bone in my body or i would have started making maps years ago.
    I've made a ton of maps, and have some on DA. I'll link some below. I haven't made any for this setting, but volenteered and had some discussion with Dave, though admittedly not much. I've been bogged with planning my own wedding, so there's that.

    I created this map for a Free Form Roleplay I created - http://willowthewombie.deviantart.co...?_sid=5078e53f

    This is the continent, Devren, in the world Aldain, which is the world my novel is - http://willowthewombie.deviantart.co...?_sid=11d3834e

    This is a island of dragons that I was commissioned to draw - http://willowthewombie.deviantart.co...?_sid=1b353992

    I'm aware all of these are black and white, but I can do coloring with the best of em, I just haven't chosen to in these examples.
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    Yeah I think the Cahokian League's power extends a little too far north there.

    That Yellow around the mouth of the Mississippi could be referring to French-controlled Columbia, rather than Spanish.

    Even if the area is technically under Joint Cahokian/French control, it's probably culturally closer to the Columbian colonies than the rest of the Cahokian league. More like a colony ruled by a governor (The mixed cahokian/french family in Nouveau Orléans, which in turn nominally answers to both the Crown and the Council, but in reality barely answers to either) than a Client-Tribe. Unless we wanted to give that area it's own color, that's closer to Columbia than anything else.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRC View Post
    That Yellow around the mouth of the Mississippi could be referring to French-controlled Columbia, rather than Spanish.
    Right, got confused because i often play Europa Universalis 3 and in that game the color of Spain on the map is the same color as the color used on this map for the Columbian colonies

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    Canoeing
    Slow Rapids is a contradiction in terms. How about "mild rapids" or "moderate rapids"?

    Maybe we should change "Close Waterfall" to "Waterfall Nearby". At first, I thought you meant this was the DC of closing a waterfall, like closing a door (which would be an epic spell, BTW).

    Quote Originally Posted by AdmiralSquish
    One check represents up to an hour of travel, however if any other action of any type is made during that hour, another check to traverse deep lakes must be made following that action.
    Any action? Even a swift or a free action? I know what you mean here, but you still might want to clarify that this means move actions and similar, not any action at all.

    Is there a mechanic for spilling cargo, or determining how much is spilled?

    Canoe Mastery should be added to the main page, under "Feats". You might also want to specify that it's based on Swim; and also that without this feat, Swim doesn't help you handle a canoe.

    As long as we're on the subject of canoes, now might be a good time to finalze the stats for canoes themselves. How much do they weigh, what's their Hardness, how much cargo they can carry, etc.? I left a slot for them in the equipment thread, but never got around to deciding their stats...

    Overall, this is excellent material, and once again I give you kudos. You must have, like, a TON of kudoses (kudii?) from me by now.

    Profession
    Quote Originally Posted by AdmiralSquish
    Such a check still uses the original skill's modifiers and base ability, just substituting the profession ranks for the skill's normal ranks.
    Minor question: If you're substituting Profession for a class skill you don't have any ranks in, would you then benefit from the +3 bonus for having ranks in a class skill, for the purposes of this one check?

    Survival
    Once you select a terrain type, what happens? Do you gain some kind of benefit, or are you just selecting the one kind of terrain you know how to handle?

    Planar Cosmology
    Quote Originally Posted by AdmiralSquish
    the spirit world is populated by shadow folk, semi-real humanoid outsiders created by human beliefs about their own groups and others, from stereotypes and tales and their own opinions of themselves.
    So would the Spirit-World versions of the French, for example, be composed of both how les Francais view themselves, AND how the English view them?




    Hisatsinom
    Wow, I had no idea the Southwest used to be green! But perhaps we don't need to make it green again for this setting: maybe the ecological collapse really happened, just like in our own timeline, and it's just a fact of life that everyone has to adapt to now? It could create a bleak and sand-swept feeling for the region, a sense of sorrow for the beauty and fecundity that was lost. It'd be a once-green land that's now slowly dying (or at least, changing radically) of simple thirst, kind of like the Barsoom Chronicles.

    Ganonsyoni
    I really like the 'Machiavellian' take on the region. The Iroquois were ferocious warriors, accomplished statesmen, and not above using brutal torture to achieve their ends (for examples of how the Iroquois treated prisoners, watch the movie Black Robe).

    I suspect that the Iroquois would be fairly unpopular rulers, because the conquest would have happened within living memory, in most places. They might be able to mitigate this somewhat by offering conquered peoples full membership in the Confederacy and equal representation in their government, but in most cases the newly-conquered people would just vote themselves right out of the Confederacy, and then we're back to square one. Maybe we can learn a lesson from history here: how did the Romans incorporate their former enemies into a budding empire?

    Russia
    Novarassi ("New Russia") was the name of a Russian trading post in what's now Yakutat, Alaska. I thought that it would make a good name for the region as a whole. Sort of like how New York City is located in the state of New York.

    I think I prefer the name "Russkaya Vespuccia" over "Russkaya Kolumbiya", personally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steckie
    the colony was never very prosperous.
    Ah, but magic could make it prosperous! Remember that since spells are empowered in the new world, it's slightly easer (read: cheaper) to produce magic items in the New World and export them to the Old World.

    This might be relevant here: has anyone else ever heard of the Doukhobors? They're basically like Russian Quakers: nonviolent pacifists endlessly persecuted by a corrupt government and a hostile majority.




    Map
    Quote Originally Posted by Steckie
    The Maya civilization didn't expand at all since the year 900? It would be very weird for their borders not to have changed in 850 years. Also, i'd give them a land border with Aztatlan, makes for a bit more conflict.
    I completely agree. personally, I'm of the opinion that there shouldn't be any blank space between the Maya and the Aztecs. With their larger, better-trained and better-armed military, there's no WAY the Oaxacan tribesmen could stand against the might of the Aztecs for almost 250 years. Only a technologically advanced society, equipped with firearms of their own, would have a chance of standing up to them. At this point, I feel that the Aztecs would long ago have picked off the last of the holdout tribes, and would be making serious advances into Maya territory. The Maya are scrambling to get their act together, but it's hampered by a lack of trust and communication between the various states. And every year, another Maya city falls, and is incorporated into the Aztec war-machine...

    Quote Originally Posted by Steckie
    If the Fusangese control the Baja California Peninsula they should control the area until the mouth of the Colorado river as well.
    I feel like the Fusangese controlling all of Baja is a little unreasonable. The Aztec navy probably can't match up with Fusang's and they'd have to get around the Chinese-influenced and Great-Wall-fortified Tarascans in order to control Baja, but I think it can be done. Even if they did overreach and can't hold it any longer, the players would probably enjoy conquering Baja on behalf of the Empress, or helping to evacuate the last of the Triple Alliance's forces as Fusangese footsoldiers advance and the Haiyuanren pound the coastal cities with artillery.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steckie
    Does Cahokia own the Appalachians?
    If we're not going to give 'em the Rockies, we probably shouldn't give 'em the Appalachians either. A few of the major passes, at the very most.
    But I don't think we need to make up an independent group for EVERY area that's not "owned" by an empire. That would take us FOREVER. And besides, we've got to leave a few blank spaces for DMs to fill in with their own ideas. If they really want to know who actually lived there in the real-world timeline, they can Google it. But the answer to that question is probably very different in the Crossroads timeline, considering the number of variables we've thrown at this continent. :smallhappy:

    Quote Originally Posted by Steckie
    These are the historical borders of the Haudenosaunee. Again i think that their territory would have changed a bit over the years.
    Maybe, being the canny statesmen and traders that they are, they realize that between the Tuniit, the Cahokians, the French, and the English, the Great Lakes are about to become be the most valuable real estate in the entire continent, and they rush in to scoop up as much of it as they possibly can. In effect, they quickly* sieze control nearly all of the Great Lakes and much of the St. Lawrence seaway, rapidly becoming a maritime society with their own European-style ships and a highly advanced navy.
    *OK, it takes them a few decades. But it's still pretty fast by the standards of Native proto-empires.

    Quote Originally Posted by BRC
    Yeah I think the Cahokian League's power extends a little too far north there.
    Agreed. It's about 2,119 miles from Cahokia to Grande Prairie, Alberta. (For comparison, it's 1,594 miles from Portland, Maine to Miami, Florida.) That is a VERY long way for Cahokia's influence to extend, even with horses and Links. I think that much of western Canada could just be left as independent areas.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWombatOfDoom
    I've made a ton of maps, and have some on DA.
    Wow, that is some seriously awesome art. I think I like your maps even better than the ones I did, actually! If you're interested in mapping out the setting, I would be happy to accept your offer! Just keep in mind that it might be a while before we can pay you. :smallembarassed:




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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperDave View Post
    Wow, that is some seriously awesome art. I think I like your maps even better than the ones I did, actually! If you're interested in mapping out the setting, I would be happy to accept your offer! Just keep in mind that it might be a while before we can pay you. :smallembarassed:
    Thanks! I've been honing my cartography ever since I started writing, and it's dramatically different from when I first started (mountains were jagged scribbles and towns were named things like "Inasack"). I've come a long way since then, and have been map making for...oh my gosh...like over 15 years now? Oof. Time flies. I know payments not a thing right now, but then again, neither is a finalized map! We'll figure all that out, just know I'm willing and experienced.
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    Hey, everyone! Sorry for the long silence, there was this big thunderstorm Sunday that blew up my modem. It was actually smoking a bit! Anyways, I've been slowly going mad the last few days, but everything should be back in order now.
    Just wanted to let everyone know what was going on, and that I'll be responding to all the new developments as quickly as I can!
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    I just realized that I likely won't be able to attend the Skype meeting after all, since I have a lot on my plate this weekend, so I will not be able to fit it in to the schedule.

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    It might become difficult for me to join as well. Apparently we have some birthday thing to go to.
    I think i can make it, but if i do i'll be an hour or so late. If i have my timezones correct.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Admiral Squish View Post
    Hey, everyone! Sorry for the long silence, there was this big thunderstorm Sunday that blew up my modem. It was actually smoking a bit! Anyways, I've been slowly going mad the last few days, but everything should be back in order now.
    Just wanted to let everyone know what was going on, and that I'll be responding to all the new developments as quickly as I can!
    I actually MIGHT be able to come to this one, even if no one else can! My fiancee is meeting her mom for lunch, so there's a potential!
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    Hisatsinom
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    Ecology
    My main concern with keeping the tress is how dramatically it transforms the environment. If the trees stay, they retain the soil. The soil supports smaller plants. The smaller plants support larger herbivores. The larger herbivores support larger carnivores. The presence of tree roots reduces erosion, which in turn reduces the number of valleys and gullies in the region. I worry that players will be unable to make the change in their mind, to make the southwest into a... well, perhaps not 'lush', but certainly more-so than the current environment. Plus, we would lose out on some things, like the banded rock canyons and cool wind-sculptures. Overall, I imagine it would look a bit like Yellowstone.

    I see a couple options. One, we can go full-out. Say the climate change didn't affect the trees so bad, and the natives developed a sustainable wood-harvesting system. Full transformation of the region, it's all totally different. Two, we don't change the region, say it all went down as it did historically, and make it work regardless. Which seems a logical stretch, since the society would have to radically transform, and very few are good at doing that. Three, climate bands. We say the effect occurred, but it wasn't as far-ranging as before. Northern areas keep the trees, and are thus transformed, but southern regions are as barren as modern times.

    The problem is that if we keep the area barren, they would have to get wood in huge quantities from other sources, and it would make it much, much more difficult to irrigate the kinds of fields that would be needed to support the population centers.

    Regarding spiders and juniper berries. Unfortunately, I'm rather certain that spiders are obligate carnivores.

    Spain
    Hmm. Where would it go, though? On the northwest coast of mexico? Perhaps on the bit of Baja California they control? I don't think it would be in the delta, that area is too valuable to the Hisatsinom area as a whole.

    Theme
    I suppose we should think of a theme for this region too. Perhaps trade would be a good focus? If we do go with a whole or partial loss of the trees, then trade would be vital to sustain the population centers. Partial tree loss would be the best scenario, there, since there would be three or four distinct zones, each of which would have their own products to export and different needs to imports. Southern areas would need wood and food to support their manufacturing of textiles and pottery. Northern areas would need the textiles and pottery, and would provide wood. The delta would need pottery and wood to have the tools needed to produce all the food. The deserts would need everything, but they could provide some less... conventional resources, such as peyote, and powerful magic. This trade starts as an inter-empire thing, which binds them all together, but as Fusang, Aztatlan, and the Cahokian League arose around them, they would be in a great position to expand their trade routes.

    But then, on the other hand, Cahokia's kinda got the whole 'trade empire' thing goin' on.

    Ganonsyoni
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    Theme
    I'm glad this idea has gone over well, it did seem an unusual one when it first occurred to me. I think the political scheming would arise from their long-lasting democratic system. It's a trend that arises in other democratic systems, such as Athens, which was somewhat famously scheming around the time the city fell. Oration and charisma become more and more important, and the leader's actual effectiveness becomes less so. I don't know if Ganonsyonian is really a viable replacement for Machiavellian, though. I think that would indicate a level of respect for them as a culture that is unlikely to exist in the western world, at least the portions beyond the shores of the new world. I think their great skill with words and politics would make them well-known as traders and negotiators to beware, but their reputation likely wouldn't really permeate mainland Europe.

    Culture
    I don't think it was quite in living memory. The conquest of the main part of the Michigan mitten was conquered in 1620, according to the Ganonsyoni in the treaty that gave up said lands in 1701. If the chart on Wikipedia is to be believed, the most recent conquests in the southeast of the territory still might be remembered, but for the most part they took place between 1640 and 1680, a good 70 years ago or more by the modern day. It's possible some elders may still remember it, but they would need to be 75 or older for it.
    It's hard to find records of how many other tribes lived in the area and their cultural backgrounds, but I believe the Ganonsyoni were rather populous, considering one account indicates they fielded a force of 1500 warriors for several months to harass a city. I think we could probably have the ganaonsyoni move in and spread their bloodlines and culture pretty quickly. I think the conquered people would probably be given an opportunity to join the confederacy as another state, and after the two, maybe three generations between conquest and now, they probably would be content with their place in it.

    Russia
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    Naming
    Hmm. I suppose we could go either way, honestly. I think Novarossi sounds better on the tongue, honestly, but it might be confusing to have the colony and the city share the same name. Sorta like the confusion relating to the tuniit and the Tuniit.

    Colony
    Hmm... I'm suddenly doubting him much presence there would be on this land. Taking a second look at Wikipedia, Russian explorers didn't discover the pacific until 1640 or so, but they weren't ordered to explore across it until 1725. 1741 was the first sighting of land. The main motivation for colonizing the new world was fur, which was freely available in Siberia until the populations were depleted by over-hunting. I mean, it's not an issue of land, Siberia has plenty of land, and it wouldn't be like Alaska would be easier to settle or anything, particularly with the stronger natives to con tend with. The presence of chinese colonies might advance the timeline a bit (if they had all that much contact with china in the first place), but I don't think we could reasonably step things up more than, say, 50 years. At that pace, the first permanent settlement wouldn't be until 1734, barely fifteen years or so past.

    Theme
    Hmm... So a sort of deportation colony, or a punishment post? They send the people/groups they don't like across the sea so they dont' have to deal with them? I don't know... it seems like it would be just as easy to sent them to Siberia, which is what they traditionally did. And it woudln't require an ocean crossing.
    Here's an idea... an arctic Old West. A harsh, lawless environment, with hostile natives. But it's got a great deal of potential. It's only recently been founded, so there's very little infrastructure, but there's plenty of valuable furs to be captured, and rumors of gold further inland to be found. The land is inherently attractive to pirates, bandits, fugitives, and the desperate, due to a combination of factors. For one, it's got plenty of valuables to be harvested... or stolen from those who did the harvesting. It's got almost no law enforcement, so pirates, bandits, and the like would have the run of the place. It would also be a place to practice forbidden magic, both because it's harder to be caught and magic is just that much stronger over here.

    Plateau
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    Rockies
    I think we should try to elaborate a bit on why the rockies are so dangerous. We don't really have all that much for the region, besides some vague idea of thunderbirds nesting there, and a few kinds of monsters that live up there, but there are monsters everywhere. We need to fill the hills with danger, make them somewhere that only the crazy would dare to venture... And these guys are the ones who LIVE there.
    Maybe the height of the mountains actually makes them closer to the spirit world, so all kinda of spirits have a way of bleeding through to the mortal world, some pleasant.. most not.

    Theme
    I know, that's why I was saying I was reconsidering the borderlanders theme. It would require a great deal more connection to their neighbors, and a great deal more support from them, too.
    I am really liking the 'crocodile dundee' idea, though. These are hardcore survivalists, masters of their enviroment who spend their entire lives in possibly one of the most violent, dangerous landcapes of the world, who regularly face down monsters that would destroy small villages. I imagine that pretty much every plateau resident would have at least one or two class levels.

    Great Basin
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    Theme
    Almost forgot to mention these guys. I haven't gotten deep enough into the culture to really be able to think of a theme. I know they've lost a lot of their RL land to the Hisatsinom, but that would be old news to these guys, stuff from hundreds of years ago. There's not a lot of info on wikipedia, either. They were mostly-nomadic hunter-gatherers, they made use of Peyote in religious ceremonies, and they gathered in villages in winter and traveled as separate families through the summer. Apparently some groups were just acquiring horses in our world and developing a plains-like culture, maybe that would have happened sooner with Fusang's presence?

    Map
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    Rio Grande Corridor
    You raise a good point on this one. The control of the sea would make this a difficult route to maintain. I could move the corridor inland, easily enough. I wasn't going to note individual cities, though, the regions are only those with a larger, more solid control.

    Maya
    The large expansion of the mayan civilization pretty much stalled out as the city-states started to war with one another, I don't know exactly how big the region was when the Spanish made landfall, but I don't think it was significantly larger. The Mayan area isn't a cohesive nation, it's dozens, hundreds of Mayan states slugging it out with each other and all their neighbors.
    I would like to see a land border with Aztatlan, but the main issue is that by expanding them, I have to steamroll all their neighbor-cultures. All those distinct regions and cities and peoples, rolled over to consolidate the area into the hands of the giants, Spain, Mayatolli, and Aztatlan.

    New Grenada
    I my defense, we were still debating this area when I drew it.
    I don't think I can pull the maya south enough to do it, though, the region to cross is as wide as their entire current holdings, and there are a lot of central american cultures in that area to cover. I could make it happen, but I think there's material in those regions that deserves to be explored before we decide to pave it over.

    Colorado Delta
    We can't really have Fusang taking the delta, that's the breadbasket of the Hisatsinom. And I don't see why they would have to give it up if the Fusang controlled the ocean. The Hisatsinom don't engage on the sea, and Fusang would have to mount a ground offensive into an extremely valuable stretch of land that you KNOW the natives would defend to the death, since losing it would pretty much mean death anyways. The Hisatsinom could easily send huge forces of warrior into the area along the river. And Fusang, they don't really need it. The south's economy is trading-based, military action on such a valuable region would completely cut off their overland trade routes through the Hisatsinom region, as well as their access to spider silk, and what would they get for it? A fertile region, but they would have no idea how to work it properly to take advantage of the river. The Colorado is a very unpredictable river, it would have a steep learning curve.
    As to why they have land on Baja, there is a mountain range running down the middle of the peninsula, that would offer them at least a measure of protection against their expansionist neighbors. I don't think the Baja Hisatsinom region would be very... involved, though.

    Noveau Orleans
    Yeah, that particular patch o' yellow is france.

    Appalachians
    I figured the Appalachians would be in Cahokian control, at leas nominally, since they would have a modicum of control over the passes, but I suspect they would have little actual control beyond them. I'm not sure if they would be an independent group or not, I just don't think that Cahokia would be able to maintain any sort of serious control over such a mountainous, isolated region.

    Ganonsyoni
    Yeah, new borders are called for, here. Especially since we decided they would have all sides of the lake. I'm not sure if their region would include Lake Superior, though, it kinda sticks out from the rest, but that's kinda why we make the maps, to discuss such things.

    Skills
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    Canoeing
    Slow rapids isn't quite a contradiction in terms, but it does sound a little odd, I will admit.

    Nearby waterfall makes more sense, in my head, I'll change the term.

    That line was taken directly from the Voyageur thing, don't blame me for it.

    I did not think of a mechanic for spilling cargo, but I think I could do that. Say, miss by 5 or less, simply wet the cargo. 5-10, lose 50%, >10, lose all of it. Or maybe 5% per point you miss by?

    I intend to add it to feats once the details are worked out.

    Swim DOES help you handle a canoe without the feat, you can use it as you will, but you auto-fail any check with a DC >20.

    I think the details of the canoes vary pretty widely depending on the size and materials it's made from. A sealskin canoe is going to be much lighter than a solid wooden canoe. Wood typically has hardness 5, leather has hardness 2, and the total HP would depend on how sturdy the canoe is made.

    I do indeed have a pretty impressive kudo-hoard.

    Profession
    I would say no, you don't actually have ranks in that skill, and the +3 is a bonus, not part of the ranks... But then, if it's related enough to your profession skill to substitute, then you probably would have class-skill training in it.

    Survival
    It's more like selecting the terrain where your skills apply. A forest-dweller would have very little survival ability on the plains, or in the arctic. There might be some cross-over, though, particularly relating to weather...

    Shadow-Folk
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    That was pretty much the idea, yes. Spirits are formed from the beliefs of people, but not one specific people. A people's self-opinion would have the most effect on their shadow folk (since they think about themselves and their people more often than any other group does), but the stereotypes and beliefs of other people would also be incorporated into their identity.


    Skype
    Okay, skype call is still set at 2PM, or about 11.5 hours from the time of this post. It's unfortunate that some people can't make it, but I do look forward to seeing those who can! And don't worry, I'll make sure to post a summary in the thread after the talk. It looks like Skype will work on this computer, so that's always good.
    I haven't come up with a proper list of topics, but I think we'll be trying to focus in on the independent regions, much like in the thread. I'll come up with a few talking points tomorrow morning, since I probably shouldn't be doing any heavy thinking at this hour of the morning.
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  23. - Top - End - #353
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.

    Skype Update: Since my brother thought the plan was 3 PM and told Kungfulobster 3 PM, and Steckie is gonna be late anyways, I'm just gonna change the official Skype time to 3 PM EST, a bit more than three hours from this post, for the sake of simplicity.

    The conversation will focus on the independent groups and the big decisions relating to them, with a few other topics to wrap up with.
    The Hisatsinom.
    The Ganonsyoni.
    The Plateau Peoples.
    The Russians.
    The diverse Mesoamerican Cultures.
    The Great Basin Peoples.
    Free discussion
    Then wrap up by discussing the business plan a bit.
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  24. - Top - End - #354
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    Default Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.

    So I found this legend on the Great Peacemaker who founded the Confederation of Peace and Power. I am curious if this is overly influenced from Christianity, but that's more because Christian monks had a habit of changing parts of a story to make it easier to convert people.

    I wouldn't mind working on the idea we developed for the tree with the huge collection of hatchets and magic weapons of war. I'm usually good with fluff.

  25. - Top - End - #355
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    Default Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Admiral Squish View Post
    Skype Update: Since my brother thought the plan was 3 PM and told Kungfulobster 3 PM, and Steckie is gonna be late anyways, I'm just gonna change the official Skype time to 3 PM EST, a bit more than three hours from this post, for the sake of simplicity.

    The conversation will focus on the independent groups and the big decisions relating to them, with a few other topics to wrap up with.
    The Hisatsinom.
    The Ganonsyoni.
    The Plateau Peoples.
    The Russians.
    The diverse Mesoamerican Cultures.
    The Great Basin Peoples.
    Free discussion
    Then wrap up by discussing the business plan a bit.
    Sorry I was really only there for the start of the call...weekends tend to be bad for me.
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  26. - Top - End - #356
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    Default Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.

    I was thinking with the Tree of Peace, that the term "bury the hatchet" is used instead of "bury the weapon" because the Mohawks, who were the founders of the League of Peace and Power, buried a hatchet. I was thinking that the description of the time prior to the League's formation, each tribe had a warchief's weapon that worked like an Ancestral weapon (ex. it was sentient with the memories of past Warchief) The weapons all inspired courage in the warriors, but it also spawned Rage, and the artifacts usually dominated the warchiefs to an extent that allowed for war to continue unending until the arrival of The Peacemaker. Each weapon can also have personal abilities unique to it.

    So I need ideas for weapons to be buried under the Tree. Suggestions?

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    Default Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.

    So I've been doing a little research on prestige classes, and I've dicovered that there are quite a few existing PRCs which are appropriate for the setting; in particular the Mammoth Rider, the Horizon Walker, and the Bloodmage (sorry Squish, looks like Paizo beat you to the punch for your Blood Priest class).

    As I mentioned in the Skype call, I feel like we've done plenty of world-building by now, at least for most regions. I feel that our first priority, at least for now, should be getting Crossroads ready to playtest, since it's better to catch mistakes earlier rather than later. But this will require that we actually finish designing all the classes we're making, and finalize the list of "official" classes and prestige classes which are appropriate for the setting. I'd actually like to start a conversation about this, so I've compiled a list of PRCs which I think are compatible with the Crossroads setting. I think that there's a case to be made for most of these, but if you disagree, let me know. I haven't had time to examine each one in detail (there are dozens of them), but again, nothing has been written in stone yet.


    As long as we're on the subject of classes, is Monk not going to be an official class? Because if they are, then that opens up the Brother of the Seal PRC.
    And for that matter, what about the Alchemist base class? It's not on the list yet, and I get that alchemy was definitely on its way out by the mid-1700s, but I really can't think of a better class for Benjamin Franklin to take levels in.
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  28. - Top - End - #358
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.

    I was under the impression that the inquisitor class would be available as well, but can't find it on the list. I like monks, they would fit the setting. And i love the alchemist, perhaps with a few changes (mutagen is something from doctor Jekyll and Mr Hyde, wich was written later).

    Don't have much time to go over that list, but i do have a question: What do you consider ready for playtest?
    Are classes the most important to playtest at this moment? Or the homebrewed monsters? Or is it the world itself?
    If it's the first two, we can start doing tests for anything that is already finished. If it's the final thing we'll need to do some more work first.
    Imagine a playtest in the Cahokian League. The players start in Cahokia and start on their quest, everything goes fine. Then they decide to travel south along the Mississippi by boat to go visit a tribe that is alligned with Cahokia.
    That's where the problems start. We don't have a list of settlements, or a list of NPC's and Merchants in those settlements or some rough plothooks for that area.
    All of that is not absolutely necesarry to playtest, but it would sure help. I'm not saying we need to fill everything, we already agreed we need the empty places on the map. But we need more than just Cahokia to make an interesting area to play in.

    My suggestion: start playtesting classes and monsters that are done now. Work on the world a bit more.
    Oh, and maybe start making a list of important NPC's and ask here on the forum for help on building them?

  29. - Top - End - #359
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.

    Well, all in all, the crossroads call was definitely an odd one. It started with just wombat, then there was nobody for like fifteen minutes, then Superdave showed up, and then more and more people started getting into that call, which went pretty well, in the end. We covered all the big topics on my list and there were a few cool ideas that cropped up! I would have posted this sunday, but I been pretty busy.

    Anyways, some of the things we talked about:

    Free Talk
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    Blank Spaces
    The concern that we aren't leaving 'blank spaces' on the map came up, that there would be nowhere for DMs to do whatever they wanted and just have fun. However, this concern seems largely exaggerated, in my opinion. After all, it's not like we're going to fill in every space. While the borders of the countries are going to meet, it's not going to be all firmly under control, and there's plenty of space in each region for DMs to have fun. It's not like we're going to have every single square mile set in stone, after all.

    Non-Horse Mounts
    This came up in the context of water mounts, but I think the topic deserves a little discussion beyond just that. At the moment, we've got mammoths and horses as actual mounts. Should we throw more variety in there? We're not going to have flying mounts, but land-bound animals are valid options. Should any new mounts be restricted in area, like mammoths, or maybe they're only an advantage in a certain kind of environment? Horses are pretty great on open land, but some sort of riding goat could be a great ally in a mountainous area. Some amphibious creature would be useful in wetlands, or in areas with many rivers and lakes. It's an interesting question and I think we could gladly discuss it.

    Cross-Breeding
    This came up in regards to sasu qua'che. I think we should definitely not support the idea of cross-breeds. Half-X races are always boring in my opinion, and the idea that such different creatures could mate and produce viable offspring is just silly. Unless they descended from a single species, there's no way it would work. In my opinion, the best way to handle it would be to not provide any options for it and certainly not condone it, but if players really, really want it, they could conceivably play as one or the other and say they have some unusual distant ancestry.

    NW coast
    We also talked about the northwest coast and how it relates to the rest of Fusang. We want to keep the varied NW cultures, but we also have to justify why they wouldn't be wiped out by the colonists. Ultimately, the Sasu Qua'che serve that purpose. When the first big wave of colonization happened post-Qing takeover, the colonists were battered and defeated, moving to a largely unsettled land. The Sasu Qua'che teach them what they can and cannot eat and join the empire, in exchange for the protection of their forests, and an end to hostilities. The Sasu Qua'che are given 'domain' over the forests, but they don't actually do all that much, beyond ensuring they stay vital. The Pacific NW native populations were decimated by plague, and with the expansion of the sasu qua'che populations and the arrival of the chinese, they may not be gone but they are dramatically reduced in power and territory.

    Divinations
    This question came up at the very end. Divinations are a big part of mythology and many cultures, but we have largely said that most don't exist. We discussed this for some length, and eventually came up with two kinds of divinations. Quick ones, which are simple spells. These are short, limited in scope, or limited in range. They consist of things like augury, which might tell you if a specific idea has a good chance of success or not, or spells that let you look around nearby corners or such. But then there are long ones, rituals, that give you a much more in-depth details, but require different kinds of ritual. They may need drugs, or intensive study to be able to target, or they may require you to fast, or wander the desert, or meditate for days and days, but they can give you more information, or information from long distances away, or even knowledge of the future. Of course, any such information is open to interpretation, or cryptic in nature.

    [I]Did you Know?[I]
    Here's something else that came up, the idea of including little 'did you know' factoids throughout the book, to help educate the players about the true nature of the world the crossroads setting is based on. Since the average reader knows so little about the history of the region, I think this is a pretty great idea. On the other hand, it might require more pages...


    Histasinom
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    Ecology
    We discussed the pros and cons of the various options and the call more or less came to agree the idea of different areas with different kinds of terrain would be the best bet overall. It allows continued access to wood, while still keeping much of the region as 'Southwest Classic'. It's also been brought up that European explorers first contacting southwest region may have found the region as 'green', or forested, so I'm going to have to research the exact details of the environment at the time.

    Deserts
    One suggestion I mentioned was that the deserts would be a great place for mysticsm to flourish, and a training ground for many spellcasters and priests. Peyote spirit-journeys, fasting in the desert, the raw elemental powers at work, and the perfectly unobstructed stars, stuff like that, would all contribute toward a budding spellcaster's abilities. And since there's so little in the way of resources, the casters would be relied upon as a necessity of life out here.


    Ganonsyoni
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    Territory
    I think we could expand the big period of conquest that went along with the beaver wars another 10-20 years, and just have the ganonsyoni take over the area around all five great lakes. This makes things a bit easier since it puts the whole region under one 'flag', but it's also means we can make a native society with a rather impressive navy. European ships given as gifts to try and win the favor of the Ganonsyoni, sailing alongside fleets of trade-canoes and other vehicles (which I'll elaborate on below)

    Conquest
    I think the ganonsyoni would probably colonize the region, or at least marry representatives into native groups, but I think they would also expand their confederacy to cover their conquered peoples, simply expanding the system to give the conquered peoples voting representation. Mostly, their representatives would have limited influence, if only by virtue of geography, since it would be impossible for these tribe's representatives to travel all the way to the central council in the original lands and still be connected to their home-region. I think due to the 50-80 years between the conquest and the current time would allow there to be a considerable healing of sour feelings, so they would probably just be seen as a regular (though rural) part of the Ganonsyoni confederacy.
    Also, a detail that came up was the idea of 'burying the hatchet' being a sort of membership ritual, a sort of symbolic ending of hostilities and violence, by the conquered chief and the conquering chief burying ceremonial axes in a singe main ceremonial pit. And the related plot-hook of somebody stealing them.

    Otters
    This got brought up under the line of non-horse mounts, but it's not quite 'mounts', so I thought it could go in it's own thing. The idea of a domesticated water-mount was mentioned, and we went through a few possibilities. We decided a mammal would work best, since it would have to sorta stay by the surface, an important feature for a mount. Somebody then mentioned otters. After doing some research, I found there are in fact otters in the great lakes and also the Mississippi. They're kind small, though, barely a meter long, counting the tail. However, there are Giant Otters in south america, Which are about 6 feet (though, I can't tell if they're counting the tail or not) long. I'm not suggesting such otters could be imported, but a 'dire' otter of that scale certainly wouldn't be way too unrealistic in this world. Honestly, I am continually impressed by Mustelids. They're all crazy-tough.
    My basic idea is that these otters would be domesticated by lake-dwelling peoples, much like wolves get domesticated. In fact, I imagine these otters would be regarded very much like we would regard dogs, possibly even being referred to as water-dogs. Overall, otters meet many of the prerequisites for domestication, they're social creatures, they have a short pregnancy (but they carry the fertile egg for 8 months, before becoming actually pregnant for about three), they become sexually mature quickly (about two years comparable to a dog), and have a pretty decent useful life span (9-12 in the wild, 20-25 in captivity). They would function much like amphibious dogs. They could definitely be helpful out of water, though not so great as a dog, but in water they would be great companions while fishing or gathering shellfish, able to chase fish into nets or drive larger fish, like sturgeon, to the surface to be speared. They could even be trained to retrieve traps for shellfish in more southerly areas. The idea that came up was that a team of such otters could be harnessed and made to pull a canoe or other watercraft, much like an aquatic dogsled.


    Plateau
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    Rockies:
    Ultimately, we discussed two varieties of threats that would make the Rockies dangerous. The mundane and the magical. Mundane threats are relatively obvious. Fearsome wildlife (dire wolverines?) natural hazards (rock-slides, falling), and dangerous weather (apparently in the winter you can light a pine tree afire and it will explode). The magical threats are less obvious. The idea is that high mountains, such as the Rockies, would be closer to the spirit world, and that spirits would just bleed over from time to time. This was based off the idea that forms the basis of the why people build pyramids, but there was some debate if it's a matter of height/depth, or if the spirit world opens up in 'transition' areas, where one terrain meets another. Now, I'm not sure if it's every high mountain, or if it's just these ones for some unexplained reason, but I figure regular incursions from the spirit world would definitely make it a much harsher homeland than pretty much anywhere (except maybe Australia).


    Novarossi
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    Resources
    The new world has a wealth of resources that attract people to it. Rumors of gold are the most likely to draw a major wave of entrepreneurial settlement. And considering there was a gold rush in the region, it just makes it that much more plausible. The next valuable resource if fur. Overhunting in Sibera has left their fur-bearing animals depleted, and considering the climate of Russia, fur would be highly valuable. Magicians would also flock to the region, since it would be easier to make more powerful magical items and tools. Additionally, it would be harder to catch and punish those practicing forbidden kinds of magic.

    Lawlessness
    These resources would draw over a lot of people looking to make money. However, the remoteness of the region and the somewhat slap-dash setup for many towns would mean there would be very little in the way of law enforcement. Nobody wants to move out there for little pay to try and 'tame' such a wild place. Pirates and bandits would thrive here, attacking the prospectors and hunters who gather the above-mentioned resources and taking their valuable goods as their own, or raiding along shipping routes and hiding among the Aleutians, which also puts them in position to raid some Fusang shipping routes, too. The fact that there's so much 'wild' land here, and that so much of the region's populations would be out in said wilds, would mean it would be almost impossible to enforce the law on everyone. The whole place would just be this massive orgy of violence, corruption, and greed. Think Hollywood Wild West, but freezing.

    Timeline
    We discussed stepping things forward, and I think we seemed to come to an agreement that we could step up the pace of colonization thanks to the gold rush and the help of Chinese sea charts. We put the first sighting of Alaska by Russians in 1690, and the first permanent settlement on the shores in 1725-1730, which gives 20-25 years for prospectors, hunters, bandits, and pirates to pour into the region and turn it into the aforementioned madhouse. Overall, there would still be very little in the way of proper settlement, mostly coastal towns and a few remote outposts inland, the Russian presence would mostly be felt through solitary hunters and prospectors out in the cold.
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    Default Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.

    Tree of Peace
    I don't know about the weapons emotionally controlling the entire tribe, but I could see some sort of ancestral intelligent war-hatchet with a really high ego score filled with memory from the times when the tribes were trapped in a cycle of war. I don't know if many such tribes would have weapons similar/identical to that one, but that one could be unique, maybe even the BBEG to a campaign.

    Classes
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    Base Classes
    Monk is not a class option, even the PF version is way under-powered for its role. I could enumerate its many, man, many faults, but I won't. That's why I'm making the martial artist, to fix it up and make it a more valid option in play.
    I like the alchemist's idea, but I don't like the idea of the spell-potion things (extracts) annoys me, honestly. It just bugs me that a class that's supposed to be non-magical essentially just uses magic by a different name. Mutagens don't bug me so much, mechanically, but it doesn't seem to match any mythos of the time. (apparently, Hyde was actually smaller and younger than Jekyll). If I were to include it, I'd have to get into it.
    I dropped inquisitor because with the new brute class and the upcoming priest, its role is no longer clearly defined. It also has a spell list that focuses on spells relating to alignment and a few class features that do too, which would need rejiggering for the subjective alignment. And finally, it has a spells known list, which I was trying to drop from the options since it will most likely interact VERY oddly with spell versions when I finally figure out how they work.

    Prestige Classes
    Let's see:
    Arcane Archer has like, 90% of its abilities consumed by the hunter class already, not strictly necessary.
    Arcane Trickster seems to work, nothing jumps out at me as bad.
    Assassin looks fine, I was concerned about the magic, but seems they dropped it from the PF version.
    Bloodmage looks good, but it's different than what I was thinking, firstly because its an arcane caster, and my planned version was divine. Also, he seems to be swelling with blood, where the planned version uses it more like divine credit.
    Chevalier looks valid, replacing paladin's not necessary since the brute will fill that role. I'll probably add it, though.
    Coastal Pirate is just confusing to me. It says it's a coastal pirate that raids waterways, but the abilities seem tailored toward swamp-banditry.
    Collegiate Arcanist... I'm not sure about it. I might cannibalize some stuff for the merlinic wizard, but I don't know, otherwise.
    Dark Delver looks good, and Divine assessor seems alright. The two are similar in purpose, but they're aimed at different characters.
    Deep Sea Pirate looks good.
    Duelist looks pretty good, too.
    Evangelist... strikes me as odd. Mostly the thing about advancing regular classes at the same time as the evangelist. Also, we'd have to specify the lan guage's fluency.
    Harrower looks good, but the whole harrow card thing makes it very, very weird to me.
    Holy vindicator is... iffy, but alright.
    Horizon walker would need to be stripped of the most of its extraplanar options.
    Low templar is interesting, and would be useful for a corruption in the church angle, I suppose.
    Mammoth Rider looks good, but we'd need to tighten the list of options.
    Master Chymist... It would likely need modification if it is to be used, as much as the alchemist would.
    Master Spy seems good.
    Natural Alchemist would need modification depending on how I deal with alchemist.
    Pain Taster... is really dang dark. It would need extensive refluffimg, but it could work.
    Pathfinder Chronicler sounds interesting, it would likely work.
    Rage prophet requires oracle levels, and considering the rather likely revamp of the divination abilities, oracle's not on the list.


    Canoeing
    Recently posted a fixed canoeing skill use thingie! Check it out.
    Last edited by Admiral Squish; 2014-08-06 at 10:47 AM.
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