Am I just really thick, or is Gobwin Knob evil?

[dragongirl13]

Gobwin Knob being Evil was my first impulse, with Uncroaked meaning Undead, but it might just be Neutral. Everyone knows that all Undead in the Monster Manual are Evil. Wanda might just be Evil.

[Sisqui]

But, seriously, extreme moral relativism of this kind is bad mojo. Differences of opinion are one thing, but not all philosophical positions are equally valid.

QFT again! Now you must endure endless posts on the relativity of the word valid

[factotum]

If having Uncroaked makes Gobwin Knob evil, then what about the fact that Prince Ansom apparently has a vampire commanding a flight of doombats as part of his forces?

Not to mention those cloth golems--teddy bears are evil, EVIL I TELL YOU!!!!

[agentx42]

Yes, it's an evil city. Stanley the Tool is an evil little jerkwad and Wanda is just plain eeeeeeeeeeevill. And since Parson is unwittingly helping the Bad Guys, they're bound to win (unless he's the worst tactician of all time, or he figures out what's going on and double crosses them.)

On the other hand, the other guys sure do seem pretty eeeeeeeeeeeevil as well.

Regardless of the outcome, Parson is dead meat.

[fangthane]

Well, the imagery has certainly put Gobwin Knob on the dark side of things, using unCroaked, dwagons, spiders, and the like. Ansom, on the other hand, has vampires and bats in his alliance - rarely considered the sign of great virtue. Then again... vamps do fit the profile of Ansom's Alliance: right there are all the things a cynical man like Parson would likely despise: lame internet memes, handsome male leads, goth-poser-vampires, and everything that is so sugary sweet and innocent that it rots teeth at a thousand paces.

This is the hope that keeps me periodically checking out Erfworld when OotS updates aren't up yet. I devoutly hope that Parson's raison d'etre is to eradicate all the soft-lens cheese in Erfworld.

[SteveMB]

Well, the imagery has certainly put Gobwin Knob on the dark side of things, using unCroaked, dwagons, spiders, and the like. Ansom, on the other hand, has vampires and bats in his alliance - rarely considered the sign of great virtue. Then again... vamps do fit the profile of Ansom's Alliance: right there are all the things a cynical man like Parson would likely despise: lame internet memes, handsome male leads, goth-poser-vampires, and everything that is so sugary sweet and innocent that it rots teeth at a thousand paces.

Interesting, though some of the cliches might end up as twisted as a white leather domme outfit....

[Cobra_Ikari]

I can't believe some of the responses here. I appreciate the desire not to rush to judgment, but "tortures for fun" pretty much codes as "evil" where I come from.

Interestingly, there don't seem to be any civilians on Erfworld, which makes part of the moral dilemma Parson is going to find himself in a bit less interesting.

Yeah, no. Torture was used by many different people worldwide, both those generally considered "good" and those generally considered "evil". Torturing a scout seems like a reasonable thing to do, and having a sadist as your torturer doesn't imply evil very much. After all, you'd expect a torturer would almost have to enjoy their work, or they wouldn't be able to do it for very long.

[Luvlein]

Lots of reasonable things are evil. Torturing a scout is one of them.

Yes, Gobwin Knob is evil. So what?

[Felius]

Just a comment about necromancy:
Remember that many of the things we give as reasons for the necros being evil are things that basically all of our doctors do while on college (they are violating the cadaver of persons for the sake of knowing how it works)

One of the major points that necromancy is considered Evil with capital E is that it is disgusting. Actually, most of our "evil" is defined based on that. For example, I would dare to say that most persons would consider creating a vampire less evil then creating a zombie. Or that killing puppies is a lot more evil (sorry I forgot how to word that correctly today) then poisoning thousands and thousands of roach eggs.

[Querzis]

Just a comment about necromancy:
Remember that many of the things we give as reasons for the necros being evil are things that basically all of our doctors do while on college (they are violating the cadaver of persons for the sake of knowing how it works)

One of the major points that necromancy is considered Evil with capital E is that it is disgusting. Actually, most of our "evil" is defined based on that. For example, I would dare to say that most persons would consider creating a vampire less evil then creating a zombie. Or that killing puppies is a lot more evil (sorry I forgot how to word that correctly today) then poisoning thousands and thousands of roach eggs.

Nah, its considered evil mainly because the corpses are holy in most of the religions. Atheist wont believe necromancy is evil because corpse dont have any value or feelings. But go explain what necromancy to a bishop and he is gonna say say its really evil.

I'm atheist so I got nothing against it but I respect the belief of other people as well as all the good people in the world so if someone want to be buried in a graveyard, a good guy is gonna respect that. Taking their dead corpses to fight living people is evil. But if some people wants to be turned into zombies or dont care about their corpses after their death then you can do it and it wont be evil.

But Stanley is evil for lots of other reasons so I really dont know why everyone only talk about necromancy. I really dont know why people say Ansom group are evil either. Maybe they are but as far as we know Stanley started the war and nobody in Ansom Alliance did anything evil yet...

[Scientivore]

I see it as a case of the awesomely anti-heroic versus the sickeningly sweet. Remember the Barney mod for Doom? It's kinda like that, except with croakamancy and dwagons instead of chainsaws and BFG's.

I'm not rooting for spidews, gobwins and uncroaked to win, per se. I'm rooting for orlies, plushies and tchotchkes to lose.

I mean, really. Some on these boards have (repeatedly) expressed displeasure at the use of cute message board memes in the comic. Of course it's repulsive. That's how you can tell they're the antagonists!

[ichthus]

nope, still not evil.

[TinSoldier]

nope, still not evil.

At least don't say it within earshot of Stanley.

[ichthus]

At least don't say it within earshot of Stanley.

Hey, I'm the one that argued that Croakamancy is just a good use of resources. ;)

[Bilgore]

Hey, I'm the one that argued that Croakamancy is just a good use of resources. ;)

Well, if you imagine the souls are trapped in the bodies, then not reanimating them would definitely be evil.


Or Ebil, in Erfworld terms.

[Dervag]

The "good guy" siding with the "bad guy" the whole plotline through, however unwillingly, just never happens.

Parson isn't necessarily the good guy; he's the sympathetic guy. We like him and understand him because he's from our world and (as gamers) many of us know people like him.

That doesn't make him the good guy by itself, though.

'Evil' is really just a matter of perception.

I would argue that point, but I would agree that, specifically, the Gobwin Knobbers don't consider themselves to be evil.

and tossing away his most useless allies as cannon fodder.

His most useless allies are the Superfluous Elves and he's not using them at all...

in fact, given that Stanley seems to be fighting a losing defensive battle while he focuses on non-war-related things, it seems to me Ansom is far more likely the aggressor. Time will tell.

It could just be that he's got a monomaniacal obsession with the Arkentools and other non-war tasks, to the point where he's deluding himself about the ability of his army to fend off the attack of his enemies. The most obvious analogy will cause people to yell Godwin, though, so I won't go into more detail.

[TRat]

So far, we have no reason to think Ansom's side is any better than Stanley's... in fact, given that Stanley seems to be fighting a losing defensive battle while he focuses on non-war-related things, it seems to me Ansom is far more likely the aggressor. Time will tell.

Exactly. In this battle, Stanley is the defender against an invading army. We don't know how this war started but at least as far as we know, Ansom is the aggressor (and therefore may be considered to be the 'bad' guy).
I think it will be very interesting when we do find out how this whole thing started and I anticipate it will be 1) surprising and 2) very funny.

[Erk]

Well, I suspect we will be getting some background information very shortly ;) but it's not a big surprise Stanley doesn't consider himself the bad guy.

[archon_huskie]

Has it actually been stated in the comic so far that Stanley is evil? Or that his Army is evil? I am not looking for things that are implications.

Has it been said the other guys are the good guys?

[Erk]

well, to be fair, yes Archon, it has been explicitly stated. On page 31. Whether or not the statement had any truth to it remains to be seen.

[archon_huskie]

Where?

I'm looking for something as concrete as Stanley saying I am evil. 31 does not have that. It has Stanley reacting angrily to being called "the bad guys."

[Luvlein]

It has actually been explicitly stated by Parson, Erf 31, panel 2.

As Erk has already stated, that in itself is no proof for it being correct, though.

[SteveMB]

Where?

I'm looking for something as concrete as Stanley saying I am evil. 31 does not have that. It has Stanley reacting angrily to being called "the bad guys."

Er, I think he's referring to the fact that Parson "explicitly stated" that Stanley's side is "the bad guys". Thus, yes, it has been explicitly stated -- but it might be untrue because the character who said it doesn't know all that many of the facts. (Of course, if it had been said by a native Erfworld character who knew what all was going on, it might be untrue because the character's viewpoint is biased.)

[archon_huskie]

by explicitly stated, I mean confirmation. I think you all have confirmed that It has not. Thank you.


I am going to predict that Stanely is about to explain things to Parson forcing us to reconsider the ideas of Good and Evil and leaving other board posters crying saying that Stanley's supposed to be the bad guy.

[Luvlein]

With his 'call me the good guy or be roasted' attitude, I see that totally not coming true.

[archon_huskie]

Then you're on!

The winner will get this silly gold star!

*

[Luvlein]

Fair enough.

[archon_huskie]

Well I am not big on arguements based on speculation. A little betting on the golden shift 8 helps to keep things in perspective.


My first thought that Prince Ansom might not be the good guy was when he made the offer of sharing a tent with Commander Jillian and was rejected. Think of Disney movies. the Villian usually has a thing for the heroine.

Then think of his name. Prince Ansom. Or is it Prince Hansom? could that be a sign of vanity? Basically I am getting a Beauty and the Beast vibe here.

[Silverlocke980]

I'd say comic 31 blows the idea of evil out the window...

Can't wait to see what comic 32 does to this thread! It'll be great fun to talk about!

[Erk]

I'd say comic 31 blows the idea of evil out the window...

what? Why? If you told Stalin he was "the bad guy" would you expect him to smile and laugh and say "Haha, yeah, you got me, I'm evil! Woo, good one."

Plenty of real bad guys don't generally like to think of themselves as bad guys. And particularly if they acknowledge on some level that they are, their reaction to having it pointed out would be much like Stanley's. I don't think either side is a "good guy" or "bad guy". Just because they fight in turns and live in a fantasy world doesn't mean their morals are black and white.