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  1. - Top - End - #211
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: EVE Online 2: Giant in the Sandbox (Still a terrible game for terrible people)

    Well I'm glad I decided not to keep playing since the Corp eventually blew up anyway. Makes me a little sad to read since you guys were cool. :(

  2. - Top - End - #212
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: EVE Online 2: Giant in the Sandbox (Still a terrible game for terrible people)

    It's still going, kinda. I'm in charge of it now.

  3. - Top - End - #213
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: EVE Online 2: Giant in the Sandbox (Still a terrible game for terrible people)

    Quote Originally Posted by Melquiades View Post
    Hi, guys.

    I've always been interested in EVE Online because from what I hear, well... it looks amazing. The thing is at the same time I have always been kinda intimidated to get jumping on it. It seems really complex, and I don't know if I got the time to spend in it for it to be as rewarding as it probably can be. Do you think the game is welcoming to new players? Do I need a really powerful PC to play (or enjoy) it?



    Edit: ****... been watching videos and this game... I'll definitely start playing it once I graduate and have a job.
    I've been playing since 2006, so I'll give you some perspective.

    Disclaimer: I am the epitome of what is called a "bittervet". But to some extent, I have a reason to be. My playstyle in EVE Online has been driven largely out of existence by the power creep and changes that are brought into EVE that continue to concentrate power in the hands of the larger entities.

    Disclaimer the second: You are new to the game. Being new to the game is FUN. Exploring a new shiny world with awesome graphics is fun. It's far more fun with friends to play with, so find a good organization to play with and make friends. You will enjoy yourself. And you will need the help--the learning curve is awful for new players and most crash out in the first 6 months due to being entirely overwhelmed. Having a support structure to give you guidance will help with that.

    I wholeheartedly encourage you to try EVE out and see what you think. Try everything out. Don't get sucked into only shooting NPCs or only mining. Try shooting players (at first, realisitically, try getting blown up by other players, and don't get too attached to anything--general rule of EVE: if you don't want it to explode, don't undock it). Be prepared to get "the shakes" the first few times. Everyone does. Combat with another player is intense.



    Full disclosure: My primary focus in EVE is on PvP, and specifically in small-gang or solo PvP. I do not enjoy giant 200vs200 or 2000vs2000 fights. I have been a part of enough of them to know that I don't want to be a part of them again. EVE PvE makes my eyes bleed. If I want to mindlessly do some grindy MMO stuff, I'll boot up WoW. At least their PvE can be mildly entertaining.


    The game has changed over the years, and lately I don't think it has changed for the better. Is it shiny? Absolutely. Is it beautiful? Absolutely. As a concept, is it unique, revolutionary, and mind-blowingly awesome? Absolutely. Are CCP constantly adding new shiny features? Definitely. I think that last point is the problem though.

    Instead of a focus on keeping the environment in EVE the way it was--where everyone can have an impact--the focus on "Jesus features" has inadvertently steered the game in a direction that has taken away from that environment. There was a time in EVE when a 200 player alliance could make waves in a region. They could take over space, defend it, and carve out their future. That idea now is mostly laughable. Power creep has meant that as alliance after alliance and coalition after coalition fell, those that remained became more and more unstoppable. They absorbed many of the players who were part of the defeated organizations over time, and often simply annexed areas of space that they wanted through diplomacy (if parking the largest fleet in EVE Online next door and telling the small fish that they'll set the sharks loose in their pond if they don't declare loyalty and pay tribute can be considered dipolmacy). We are at a point where there are very few organizations in the game who can actually stand up and fight the CFC (the main coalition that dominates the vast majority of EVE), and that stagnates things quite a bit. Add to that developments over time in power projection (ie, a 2,000 man fleet being able to cross the EVE universe from one end to the other in an hour or two) means that nowhere is safe. There are no remote corners anywhere that a small group might be able to snatch while the masters are away. The masters are never far away.

    There are some exceptions to this. Wormholes, if those are your thing, are still largely dominated by "small" or "medium" sized entities. But even the definitions of those have changed. In 2007, "small" meant 10 or less in a fleet. "Medium" meant 25 a side. "Large" rarely crested 300 a side. These days, the smallest fleets you're likely to encounter in the nullsec "wild west" of space are on the order of 25, stacked with so much self-defense that it is quite pointless to fight them unless you're bringing so much force to bear it's not even a fight anymore. Think of a D&D party with three frontline damage dealers and six healing-specced Clerics spamming healing spells all day long. That's the closest EVE equivalent to what people are doing in "small" gangs these days, bringing "logistics" ships (the healing ships of EVE) in greater numbers than the rest of their fleet combined and multiplied by two) to the extent that the only way to actually kill something in their fleet is to instantly vaporize it with a volley of so much damage to 100 to 0 it in one shot. Generally that means bringing a 40+ pilot fleet. Moreover, if you do manage to get your fleet large enough to roam safely, say 50 strong, looking for or baiting out a fight from a roughly equal entity, you pretty much guarantee one of two things. Either you will wind up having to call in for backup from someone larger (referred to as batphoning), or the other side will. I've been in fights that have seen a batphone, counter-batphone, and a counter-counter batphone--often planned that way in advance. As in, both sides contacted backup ahead of time and had them waiting on standby. Eventually, as word spreads about the fight going on and more and more groups jump in, the bigger and bigger fish get more and more interested and you're liable to find your 50 man fleet decimated watching another 400 ships in a rough free-for-all that eventually gets stomped on when the neighborhood shark drops 600 on their head and slaughters them all.

    In and of itself, that may sound intriguing, but the real result is putting a chilling effect on fighting. Why would you get into a fight when you're certain the other side will just portal in a larger, nastier fleet on your head to wipe you out and you won't manage to take a single enemy with you? Anytime someone willingly takes an even fight these days, you know they have backup and either you're suicidal, or you have backup of your own. It creates a sad dynamic wherein it's less about the fights and individual and collective piloting skill and more about who has bigger friends.



    As I said before though, I'm a bittervet. So I see things through bitter-colored-glasses, and I have forgotten the wonder and joy of discovering the EVE Universe. That alone can keep the game fun for a long time if you find it to be up your alley.

  4. - Top - End - #214
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: EVE Online 2: Giant in the Sandbox (Still a terrible game for terrible people)

    For a perspective from someone on the complete opposite end of the spectrum: I tried the free demo a few months ago, so if anything, give that a shot and see if you like it. For me, it was utterly baffling the amount of freedom the game gives you. Want to captain a battleship armed to the teeth with lasers? Go for it. Want to accept contracts to haul other players' cargo across dangerous space? Go for it. Want to be a pirate and attack players hauling other player's cargo? Go for it. Want to simply dock in a station and build ships for other players? You get the idea.

    My problem with it is that it's really hard to start out. The two week trial was not enough to really get to do anything more involved. The tutorial could also use some work, as it doesn't really explain things too well. It also has the problem of giving you new ship components as rewards for finishing missions, but then doesn't explain that you need a skill book to use it, and that you get the required skill book as part of a separate tutorial branch. I wasted a lot of money buying skill books that I then got for free in a later mission.

    I get the feeling that if you really want to experience all the game has to offer, you need to pay for a few months. That gives you time to build the money necessary to accept some of the contracts (they make you pay collateral ahead of time to dissuade you from accepting a cargo transport contract and just stealing it). It also helps you apply for corporations, since most won't let you join as a trial account. Plus, you get to make friends/contacts/enemies that could potentially help you out.

    So, I guess I would say to try the free trial. If you like the gameplay but feel like you need more time to get to know it, buy a month, and then go from there.

    (P.S. When you're doing a delivery tutorial mission, make sure you've loaded the cargo into your ship before making six jumps and realizing you left it behind.)

  5. - Top - End - #215
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Brother Oni's Avatar

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    Default Re: EVE Online 2: Giant in the Sandbox (Still a terrible game for terrible people)

    Quote Originally Posted by AdmiralCheez View Post
    That gives you time to build the money necessary to accept some of the contracts (they make you pay collateral ahead of time to dissuade you from accepting a cargo transport contract and just stealing it).
    Be very careful about accepting player courier contracts. Some are scams that are impossible to complete (they set the destination in a player station that neutrals don't have docking rights for), or are located in such a risky set of space that they expect you to fail.

    Trading is also a very viable career choice, but it needs a fair amount of investment and much like Bacchanalian's comments on PVP, there is no chance of you being able to compete with well established manufacturers (at least initially) since their overheads are much smaller than yours through both skills and well researched blueprints.

  6. - Top - End - #216
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: EVE Online 2: Giant in the Sandbox (Still a terrible game for terrible people)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bacchanalian View Post
    ...looking for or baiting out a fight from a roughly equal entity, you pretty much guarantee one of two things...
    I always thought the problem was how the community treats loss. Losing stuff by the average Eve player is seen as a very bad thing whether it is a ship, some ISK, or pride. Loss mails are pointed out and laughed at by the entire community and Battle Reports can have some of the most absurd egos clashing in them. On one hand I find some of those funny, on the other I think it just breeds a community that focuses too heavily on stacking the odds in their favor to avoid losing.

    Which is fine, wanting to win makes sense, but I think people try to focus on stacking it to the point where the fight is trivial and assume their opponent is doing much the same. So everyone ends up playing Rock, Paper, Shotgun with people wondering why everyone but newbies are picking shotgun.
    Last edited by illyrus; 2014-07-31 at 04:21 PM.

  7. - Top - End - #217
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: EVE Online 2: Giant in the Sandbox (Still a terrible game for terrible people)

    Also true for some, but not me! Relevant:

    https://forums.eveonline.com/default...75&find=unread

  8. - Top - End - #218
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Crow's Avatar

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    Default Re: EVE Online 2: Giant in the Sandbox (Still a terrible game for terrible people)

    Train up your frigate skills. Get some cheap, disposable frigs. Move them to Otela or...the other one. Join RvB. Enjoy some Eve PVP at low stakes and see if it is your thing. If it is, stick around and decide what it is you want to do in the game. But get that PVP out of the way first, because nearly everything you do will lead to it in some way or another, and if it is something you don't enjoy happening, you will be very butthurt and bitter (not bittervet) at some point.
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  9. - Top - End - #219
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: EVE Online 2: Giant in the Sandbox (Still a terrible game for terrible people)

    As an update, I've rarely been playing lately, and the corp isn't doing well.

  10. - Top - End - #220
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    Penguinizer's Avatar

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    Default Re: EVE Online 2: Giant in the Sandbox (Still a terrible game for terrible people)

    Did you fix the API thing by the way? I saw a few pings about you not having the proper APIs.

  11. - Top - End - #221
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    Default Re: EVE Online 2: Giant in the Sandbox (Still a terrible game for terrible people)

    Quote Originally Posted by Penguinizer View Post
    Did you fix the API thing by the way? I saw a few pings about you not having the proper APIs.
    Well, GitS ended up escaping from the list, so it must've been fixed.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuintonBeck View Post
    Many thanks to Snowfire for collating all these. He's a madman, but he's a helpful madman.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mynxae View Post
    Damn you Snowfire. I cried.
    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon777 View Post
    T_T I swear, you just made me cry.
    Quote Originally Posted by Qwertystop View Post
    Well, here's another for your sig, Snowfire.

    <struck dumb>

  12. - Top - End - #222
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    Silverraptor's Avatar

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    Default Re: EVE Online 2: Giant in the Sandbox (Still a terrible game for terrible people)

    Wait, you guys are allied with the Brave Collective? I have an alt in Brave that I hadn't been on in a while. So that's cool.
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