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    Orc in the Playground
     
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    Default Wikipedia Article Discussion

    The Wikipedia jihad against webcomics continues. Some agenda-driven boop deleted the Erfworld article yesterday. This is a problem that at least 50 major webcomics have had to contend with this year alone.

    I do not really know how to fight it. I'm sick of hearing about it, frankly. But I am going to fight for that article, somehow.

    Is anyone here a Wikipedia admin or regular editor who can put in the request for undeletion and make the argument for notability? Primary arguments I see:

    1. Featured on GiantITP, a site with massive importance to the comics world and better web traffic than Marvel.com. GiantITP.com is among the top five most popular webcomic sites in the world, according to Alexa.

    2. Written by the creator of another, syndicated comic which has passed the criteria for notability multiple times.
    Last edited by pclips; 2007-03-06 at 08:23 AM. Reason: No longer about deletion of the article but still important
    Rob Balder, Erfworld author/co-creator, and creator of PartiallyClips

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    Default Re: Wikipedia Article Deletion

    Despite its placement on GiantITP, I'd have to agree with the wikipedia admin- Erfworld itself just isn't noteable enough yet... it's still too young. You wouldn't stick up any of Rich's alternative rules or the stories (And around and abouts, I have heard about those a lot more than Erfworld) just for their position on giantITP, you wouldn't for Erfworld either.

    Give it to about strip 50 of Erfworld and it'll definately have gained notability- until then, relax!

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    Default Re: Wikipedia Article Deletion

    Quote Originally Posted by Oppolo View Post
    Despite its placement on GiantITP, I'd have to agree with the wikipedia admin- Erfworld itself just isn't noteable enough yet... it's still too young. You wouldn't stick up any of Rich's alternative rules or the stories (And around and abouts, I have heard about those a lot more than Erfworld) just for their position on giantITP, you wouldn't for Erfworld either.

    Give it to about strip 50 of Erfworld and it'll definately have gained notability- until then, relax!
    Its not so much that, its that web comics as a whole tend to get deleted fairly regularly. There was an article that was deleted on the person who effectively created the concept of web comics, due to lack of notability on the subject of comics in general. It seems to be some kind of consesus ban on web comics in general.

    As a fun anecdote all of the articles that had refences to types of cookies (say Oreo) were deleted because they referenced the company that makes them. Some yahoo with editorial privleges deleted them because they broke Wikipedia's rules about advertising. The addition or deletion of articles left to a group of people that may or may not have any idea about that subject, and unfortunately acedemics that are experts in particular areas don't contribute because any idiot with some spare time can edit anything they don't agree with away.

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    Default Re: Wikipedia Article Deletion

    While I agree that Erfworld -while popular, is still young- may not be qualified for Wikipedia yet, the webcomic jihad is pissing me off. If the guy who played Voldemort in the Harry Potter movies can be on there, and nobody will ever EVER want to know about him, then many webcomics should be on there. Like Evil Inc. and the other Blank Label Comics webcomics, and certainly OoTS.

    But Erfworld is not yet a 1-year-old. Give it time.
    Last edited by Brickwall; 2007-02-12 at 04:35 PM.

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    Default Re: Wikipedia Article Deletion

    Hey, Ralph Fiennes is a good actor! He has a Tony and was nominated for Oscars. I think Erfworld should have a page, too, of course
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    Default Re: Wikipedia Article Deletion

    Quote Originally Posted by Oppolo View Post
    Despite its placement on GiantITP, I'd have to agree with the wikipedia admin- Erfworld itself just isn't noteable enough yet... it's still too young. You wouldn't stick up any of Rich's alternative rules or the stories (And around and abouts, I have heard about those a lot more than Erfworld) just for their position on giantITP, you wouldn't for Erfworld either.

    Give it to about strip 50 of Erfworld and it'll definately have gained notability- until then, relax!
    Wrong. If any webcomic is notable, Erfworld is notable. It's not particularly easy to separate the readership stats for Erfworld. But by the most conservative possible estimate*, the total number of people reading Erfworld would put it in the top tenth of one percent of all online comics titles.

    Additionally, I did not start this project in a vacuum. My other work had already established notability. PartiallyClips easily passes every test ever proposed for a comic strip to have a Wikipedia article, including being actively published in print newspapers, being included in an anthology from a major publisher, and having its own book collection (which Erfworld will have later this year).

    Wikipedia is experiencing a power play by a small handful of editors with an agenda. Nobody's arguing that a guy who played 6 tests of cricket for Australia between 1904 and 1911 is not notable enough for Wikipedia. But a comic with an active, engaged readership in the six figures can be insta-scrapped by a guy in Finland whose hobby is collecting insults from people whose articles he deleted.

    I was once a great fan of Wikipedia. I donated money to them. But for about a year now, I have seen that it has some really serious problems, and not necessarily the ones everyone thinks. It's not that any bozo can add junk content, or vandalize an article. They have a handle on that. It's that any petty little troll can spend his/her days deleting real content for fun.

    Half the webcomics world is fighting this battle, and as far as I can tell, we're losing.

    *(the average count of unique visitors to GiantITP on Erfworld update days vs. the same average count on non-update days before Erfworld)
    Last edited by pclips; 2007-02-12 at 11:10 PM. Reason: spelling error
    Rob Balder, Erfworld author/co-creator, and creator of PartiallyClips

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    Default Re: Wikipedia Article Deletion

    Is there any thing we can do?

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    Default Re: Wikipedia Article Deletion

    From a glance, as a disinterested third party, this strikes me as an extension of the jihad that print comic writers and editors have been waging against webcomics since the rise of the internet. Essentially, a group of bitter monkeys are pissed off that webcomics are drawing more readers.

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    Default Re: Wikipedia Article Deletion

    I objected and the article has been restored on the following proviso:

    "If you can add citations from third party sources that indicate notability than I'll move it back to mainspace. "
    See here for the full complaint/answer.

    Edit: Have added some more. Need assistance from the rest of you now.

    Follow the link, follow the link it gives for the "restored" article, and add what the wikiman wants. Add it until all possibilities have been exhausted and we can have it restored.
    Last edited by totalnerduk; 2007-02-12 at 05:40 PM. Reason: Edit for more info.
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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Wikipedia Article Deletion

    Wikipedia is about the most retarded thing ever.

    They go around saying "Such and such should not be here! It's not noteworthy!" When, in reality, depending on your point of view, nothing is really noteworthy.

    Now, if you can agree that any game/comic/TV Show is noteworthy, then really there is no reason to discriminate on it against because it came from the internet.

    If GitP isn't noteworthy, and by extention, Erfworld because it is a part of GitP, then, neither is Marvel, or any other article of that magnitude.
    That should go towards any sort of unproven (to satisfaction) article or theory, and Wikipedia has plenty of those, which are by definition not noteworthy because they don't even exist.

    If it's good for one half, it should be good for the other. I can't honestly argue that Erfworld is in any way 'notable', but they can't argue that half the articles they DO keep are either; and if all that 'trash' stays (and I know they want it to or it'd have been deleted too), then it should only be fair that this stays as well.

    It's basically saying "These minor achievments that I appreciate are noteworthy, but your minor achievements that I don't really care about are not!". Either they all stay, or they all go.

    Wikipedia is a joke, though.

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    Default Re: Wikipedia Article Deletion

    Quote Originally Posted by mport2004 View Post
    Is there any thing we can do?
    Erfworld needs third party sources in order to be moved back out to where it belongs. There's a ton of reviews from other gamer sites out there, and frankly, Erfworld is a gamer-centric comic... so that's a peer review, IMO. So I guess what we could do is search for and organize all the sites reviewing and discussing Erfworld that pass the wikipedia standard for verifiability.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Wikipedia Article Deletion

    I don't know what their problem is. They have an article on the niche comic "Queen of Wands", but won't carry an article on "Evil, Inc."? I'm sure they have articles on subjects far more obscure and esoteric than web comics. It's a case of somebody being drunk with power.

    "Your comic is not worthy!"
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    Default Re: Wikipedia Article Deletion

    Quote Originally Posted by Runolfr View Post
    I don't know what their problem is. They have an article on the niche comic "Queen of Wands", but won't carry an article on "Evil, Inc."? I'm sure they have articles on subjects far more obscure and esoteric than web comics. It's a case of somebody being drunk with power.

    "Your comic is not worthy!"
    They have a QOW article? Okay, now I can tell that there's a larger problem than I initially thought. I liked QOW, but Evil Inc. deserves an article far more than QOW.

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    Default Re: Wikipedia Article Deletion

    Quote Originally Posted by totalnerduk View Post
    I objected and the article has been restored on the following proviso:

    See here for the full complaint/answer.
    Sure, let's start with a news article from Comixpedia, the top news site for webcomics but itself a victim of (and fighter against) the notability nabobs.

    Then there was the glowing review by Fleen, a top webcomics review site also chopped out of Wikipedia by toxic scum like this guy.

    But those won't fly with agenda-worms like this, who specifically attacked and killed those sources so they could not be cited in other notability fights.

    So let's go to the sources Wikipedia deems notable. Here is a stellar review of Erfworld by highly-notable webcomics creator Howard Tayler of Schlock Mercenary. Also worth noting is Howard's recent effort to fight the Wikipedia madness too.

    Throw in a shout-out news post at Erfworld's launch from Wikipedia-notable comic AppleGeeks. And again for Hawk's cameo!

    Now how about an acknowledgement by Wikipedia-notable musician Jonathan Coulton for Erfworld's reference to one of his songs?

    Then how about the 1, 2, 3, 4...5 conventions in the last 6 weeks who have had me as a guest, in large part because I write Erfworld?

    You should also mention my personal notability as a webcomics creator based on Wikipedia articles here and here.

    There are lots of other links around the web to nice things people have expressed about Erfworld. Tons of them. Three months ago, searching "erfworld" on Google returned 4 links. Now Google estimates 187,000.

    But the one cite which is most likely to impress them is probably this official blogger for Time magazine. He is not only highly complimentary of both OOTS and Erfworld, but this is also written as part of a series taking note of the cultural significance of webcomics.

    But.

    Still.

    The main reason Erfworld is notable is that it is HERE. You need to link the Alexa traffic graph for GiantITP.com. Or better yet, this one, comparing GiantITP's numbers to some fun sites it gets more traffic than...Marvel Comics, DC Comics, Visa, and the Dallas Cowboys. Erfworld is not taking credit for that (though the rank has climbed since launch, and passed PvP today). But boop me in the boop if it doesn't indicate the notability of Erfworld that it is hosted here.
    Rob Balder, Erfworld author/co-creator, and creator of PartiallyClips

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Wikipedia Article Deletion

    [edit]If you are a Wikipedian reading over this topic because you think the new Erf article is biased, please note:
    I will, until given reason not to, retain my faith in humanity and pretend that since the article now easily meets WP:N and WP:RS it should not matter where the interference came from. Sure a biased party was related to the article being brought back, but it was brought back according to wikipedia's rules. After all, no proper channel was left to discuss the deletion in the first place. The only logical recourse is to discuss it elsewhere and recreate it with appropriate wikipedia criteria met.
    Thanks folks. Now, proceed to get offended at jaded and bitter discussion of personal opinions about Wikipedia that do not relate to the article in question.[/edit]

    ugh. Don't get me wrong, I generally love wikipedia and what it stands for, but what the hell is wrong with these people? The jihad on webcomics was burbling back when I was an active editor, and in the last few weeks it has gone insane, with some morons actively hunting down all webcomic articles and marking them for deletion. What is up with this?

    Frankly I stopped worrying about wikipedia some time ago, after about the 30th edit to remove some utterly false comment based on urban legend some numpty kept insisting on adding to an article on biochemistry. It's fun for trivia but fairly useless for actual knowledge. One need only compare the article on some random pokemon to the article on a major city in northern Japan to see my beef.

    I wouldn't worry all that much about it, Rob. Let your fans keep creating articles, because you can be guaranteed we will... any fan of erfworld who see the article missing will almost certainly add their own, and in my experience people eventually get tired of deleting an article over and over and over again (in my opinion the continued recreation of an article by multiple users is a sign that the article should be there... it means many people are interested in its content. People who go around hunting for articles to delete, though, don't usually care about whether or not anyone actually wants the article on wikipedia. They are rules lawyers.)

    edit: although your previous post should provide sufficient fuel to get the page back up.
    Last edited by Erk; 2007-02-13 at 05:16 AM.
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    Default Re: Wikipedia Article Deletion

    Wikipedia's main failure is that it is editable by anybody that has a computer..

    You stated there are handles on vandalism and abuse, but really, half of the stuff in there is un-monitored or only glanced at. I think that the person that creates something should have more control over what is said about his creation than some random 12 year old, but that's just me.
    I've seen articles written about things that the very artist that created it came down and fixed, only to have some moron decide he was a quack and change it back; like the artist didn't know what he was talking about for his own creation.

    There can be extensive pages on things that are speculation, entire pages on insignificant events that happened inside of significant events, and pages that are barely written at all, but still are there, but god-forbid there be a page about Erfworld.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Wikipedia Article Deletion

    Almost done writing up a new article, just a starter but chock-full of references. :p I will post it in here under a spoilertag once I am done, so that we have a backup.
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    Default Re: Wikipedia Article Deletion

    Quote Originally Posted by Erk View Post
    Almost done writing up a new article, just a starter but chock-full of references. :p I will post it in here under a spoilertag once I am done, so that we have a backup.
    You're the best, Erk.
    Rob Balder, Erfworld author/co-creator, and creator of PartiallyClips

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    Default Re: Wikipedia Article Deletion

    Quote Originally Posted by Erk View Post
    Almost done writing up a new article, just a starter but chock-full of references. :p I will post it in here under a spoilertag once I am done, so that we have a backup.
    Neat. Saves me having to put all of those references into the current one (which I was going to do tonight). Now I can go to sleep instead.

    Although, I may just pop that list somewhere for safekeeping. Afterall, it mgiht be needed as a seperate reference.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Wikipedia Article Deletion

    Thanks :) it is really not much, I will try to add more, but it is strong on notability and outside sources. It will be hard to claim this is not a valid wiki article now. Needs real material like story and characters though
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erfworld

    I wrote it so that if someone has a backup of the old wiki article the Recognition and Acclaim section can just be tacked on. I recommend keeping that link to the news article on GitP announcing erf's release too though.
    Spoiler
    Show
    {{Infobox Webcomic| <!-- Part of [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Webcomics]] -->
    | title = Erfworld
    | image =
    | caption =
    | author = Rob Balder
    | url = [http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0001.html ''Erfworld'']
    | status = Updated twice weekly, on Tuesdays and Saturdays.
    | began = [[2006]]
    | ended =
    | genre = [[fantasy]]
    | ratings =
    }}

    Erfworld is a story-driven comic fantasy [[webcomic]] written by Rob Balder (the author of [[PartiallyClips]]) and illustrated by Jamie Noguchi. It is hosted on [[the order of the stick|Giant in the Playground Games]]<ref>http://www.giantitp.com/index.html#f4ajrwFnil3eXXfxy1o</ref>, the website famous for Rich Burlew's "The Order of the Stick".

    Erfworld follows a [[graphic novel]] format, with a new "page" released every update. It setting is a predominately fantasy [[turn-based strategy]] with a surreal, reference-filled narrative.

    ==Recognition and Acclaim==
    In its brief existance, Erfworld has been recognised and received acclaim from a wide variety of notable sources and webcomic authorities. Authors of other notable webcomics (not including Rob Balder and Rich Burlew) such as Howard Tayler of [[Schlock Mercenary]]<REF>http://www.schlockmercenary.com/blog/index.php/2007/01/14/what-exactly-is-an-erf/</REF> and [[Mohammad "Hawk" Haque]] of [[Applegeeks]]<ref>http://www.applegeeks.com/blog/?p=1441</ref> have posted reviews and comments about Erfworld, and it has been cited in numerous respected webcomic sites such as [[Comixpedia]]<ref>http://comixpedia.com/node/10133</ref> and [[Fleen]]<ref>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/01/19/what-on-erf-do-you-mean-my-language/</ref>, by outside authors such as [[Jonathan Coulton]] <ref>http://www.jonathancoulton.com/2007/01/17/i-pervade-more-media/</ref>, and perhaps most importantly by [[Time-Blog]] and [[Time magazine]] author/journalist [[Lev Grossman]] in his article ''Webcomics are the New Blogs''<ref>http://time-blog.com/nerd_world/2007/01/webcomics_are_the_new_blogs_th_2.html</ref>.

    [[Category:2000s webcomics|Erfworld]]
    [[Category:Fantasy webcomics|Erfworld]]

    {{stub}}
    Last edited by Erk; 2007-02-12 at 09:15 PM.
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    Pixie in the Playground
     
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    Re: Wikipedia Article Deletion

    Quote Originally Posted by Erk View Post
    Thanks :) it is really not much, I will try to add more, but it is strong on notability and outside sources. It will be hard to claim this is not a valid wiki article now. Needs real material like story and characters though
    Spoiler
    Show
    {{Infobox Webcomic| <!-- Part of [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Webcomics]] -->
    | title = Erfworld
    | image =
    | caption =
    | author = Rob Balder
    | url = [http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0001.html ''Erfworld'']
    | status = Updated twice weekly, on Tuesdays and Saturdays.
    | began = [[2006]]
    | ended =
    | genre = [[fantasy]]
    | ratings =
    }}

    Erfworld is a story-driven comic fantasy [[webcomic]] written by Rob Balder (the author of [[PartiallyClips]]) and illustrated by Jamie Noguchi. It is hosted on [[the order of the stick|Giant in the Playground Games]]<ref>http://www.giantitp.com/index.html#f4ajrwFnil3eXXfxy1o</ref>, the website famous for Rich Burlew's "The Order of the Stick".

    Erfworld follows a [[graphic novel]] format, with a new "page" released every update. It setting is a predominately fantasy [[turn-based strategy]] with a surreal, reference-filled narrative.

    ==Recognition and Acclaim==
    In its brief existance, Erfworld has been recognised and received acclaim from a wide variety of notable sources and webcomic authorities. Authors of other notable webcomics (not including Rob Balder himself) such as Howard Tayler of [[Schlock Mercenary]]<REF>http://www.schlockmercenary.com/blog/index.php/2007/01/14/what-exactly-is-an-erf/</REF> and [[Mohammad "Hawk" Haque]] of [[Applegeeks]]<ref>http://www.applegeeks.com/blog/?p=1441</ref> have posted reviews and comments about Erfworld, and it has been cited in numerous respected webcomic sites such as [[Comixpedia]]<ref>http://comixpedia.com/node/10133</ref> and [[Fleen]]<ref>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/01/19/what-on-erf-do-you-mean-my-language/</ref>, by outside authors such as [[Jonathan Coulton]] <ref>http://www.jonathancoulton.com/2007/01/17/i-pervade-more-media/</ref>, and perhaps most importantly by [[Time-Blog]] and [[Time magazine]] author/journalist [[Lev Grossman]] in his article ''Webcomics are the New Blogs''<ref>http://time-blog.com/nerd_world/2007/01/webcomics_are_the_new_blogs_th_2.html</ref>.

    [[Category:2000s webcomics|Erfworld]]
    [[Category:Fantasy webcomics|Erfworld]]

    {{stub}}
    Well here's what I managed to do to the previous main article. We need somebody to combine the best of both....

    Spoiler
    Show
    {{Infobox Webcomic| <!-- Part of [[Wikipedia:WikisProject Webcomics]] -->
    | title = Erfworld
    | caption =
    | author = Rob Balder (story), Jamie Noguchi (drawing)
    | url = http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erflatest.html
    | status = Updates two times a week
    | began = 2006 [http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0001.html]
    | ended =
    | genre = [[Fantasy]], [[Comedy]]
    | ratings =
    }}
    '''Erfworld: The Battle for Gobwin Knob''' is a fantasy/comedy [[webcomic]] written by Rob Balder of [[PartiallyClips]] and [[illustrated]] by Jamie Noguchi. It updates on Tuesdays and Thursdays each week. Erfworld is published at Giant in the Playground ([http://www.giantitp.com]) which enjoys a massive amount of [[traffic]] <ref>{{cite news | title=Alexa.com's official graph showing the GITP's stats |url=http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?q=&url=giantitp.com}}</ref> each day (possibly exceeding that of some traditional "print comic" websites, see graph in references section) alongside Rich Burlew's webcomic, [[The Order of the Stick]], and is released under a [[Creative Commons]] Attribution, Noncommercial, ShareAlike license[http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0001.html].
    The comic's humor largely revolves around fantasy [[videogames]], [[roleplaying]] games, [[popular culture]] references, and historical references, with frequent puns and sight-gags, as well as letter changes in frequently used names (spidews, dwagons and twolls instead of spiders, [[dragons]] and [[trolls]], for example).
    Although a very recent arrival on the webcomic "scene", Erfworld has already garnered critical acclaim <ref>{{cite news | title=Article citing the cultural importance of webcomics - praises Erfworld |url=http://time-blog.com/nerd_world/2007/01/webcomics_are_the_new_blogs_th_2.html }}</ref> from no less than Time magazine as well as other webcomic creators. <ref>{{cite news | title=Howard Taylor exhorts us all to give Erfworld a chance|url=http://www.schlockmercenary.com/blog/index.php/2007/01/14/what-exactly-is-an-erf/}}</ref>

    ===Characters===
    {{spoilers}}
    * '''Stanley the Tool, aka Lord Stanley The Plaid''': Overlord of the city of Gobwin Knob, and descendant of the nearly lost Plaid tribe, he is egotistical and has almost no tactical ability. He possesses the Arkenhammer, an ancient and mysterious tool of divine origin, resembling a toy hammer. Apparently other Arkentools exist, and Lord Stanley has declared an ongoing war as an effort to find them. Unfortunately, his inept handling of the war (particularly his promoting of only the handsomest men in his army) led to the loss of all the eleven cities he once owned, leaving only the capital (Gobwin Knob). He had Wanda summon "The perfect warlord" in an attempt to win the battle for Gobwin Knob, which yielded Parson Gotti.
    :In his first meeting with Parson, Stanley declared himself a "[[tool (insult)|tool]]", due to Parson convincing him that the highest title where Parson comes from is "tool". Drawing a connection between this title and his search for the Arkentools, Stanley happily declared himself a tool.
    * '''Wanda Firebaugh''': a Croakamancer (a [[necromancer]], and possibly a wielder of spells to "croak" enemies, like [[fireball]]s) serving Lord Stanley. She is very patient and formal, and highly skilled in [[strategy]], although Lord Stanley's shortsightedness and [[ego]] tend to ruin her plans. Wanda tends toward depression and a lack of hope, mostly due to her Lord's [[incompetence]].
    :She is skilled at many magics, but has stated herself that only Croakamancy has any interest for her. She was the one who suggested using the [[warlord]] summoning spell, and cast the spell that drew Parson into Erfworld.
    * '''Prince Ansom''': A handsome man and the commander in charge of King Slately's army, in opposition of the armies of Lord Stanley. He is a skilled tactician, but severely lacking in modesty. He appears to like Jillian Zamussels, but she is too proud to accept his proposal. His symbol appears to be a red [[radish]]. He carries the Arkenpliers, though he is not attuned to them, and thus can not use their special abilities.
    * '''Jillian Zamussels''': A female barbarian and warlord, fighting for the army of Prince Ansom. She is very proud and independent, rarely follows orders and obviously likes slashing, chopping and destroying everything on her way along a mission. She has an [[Zanbato|unrealistically oversized sword]], recalling [[Final_Fantasy_weapons#Buster_Sword|similar weapons]] featured in [[Final Fantasy]] and other videogames.
    * '''Parson Gotti''': Author of the webcomic [http://www.hamstard.com Hamstard], and an archetypical "hardcore" gamer who spends months at a time designing strategy games for his own amusement. He is overweight, slovenly and sarcastic but a gifted strategist and designer. He was summoned to Erfworld by Wanda on Lord Stanley's orders, called by a spell meant to summon "the ultimate warlord". Despite being a slovenly [[gamer]], Parson actually fulfills many of the requirements Lord Stanley asked for, such as: physical size, dietary and linguistic constraints, willingness to plan wars and "[kill] his foes for fun" (strategy gaming), and the desire to be summoned. Parson said he'd teleport into a fantasy world in a minute if he could, and was promptly summoned away.
    :Parson stands roughly twice as tall as Wanda Firebaugh, making him nearly three times Stanley the Tool's height. This fulfils another of Stanley's requirements, in "make him big". Parson has also adapted surprisingly well to his circumstances, possibly believing that he's having a "Wizard of Oz" moment (or that he's in a [[coma]]) and thus is simply dreaming.
    ==Known Arkentools==
    '''Arkenhammer''': Owned and attuned to Stanley the Plaid/Tool, the Arkenhammer has the power to control dwagons, and apparently can also turn nuts into birds.<br>
    '''Arkenpliers''': Owned but not attuned to Prince Ansom, they apparently have the power to turn any "uncroaked" (presumably meaning "undead") enemy to dust.
    ==Trivia==
    * The Titans of Ark, divine entities who forged Erfworld, are represented as giant [[Elvis Presley]]s.
    * When Parson was originally summoned, the word "Plot" appeared as the sound of his teleportation.
    * "Parson Gotti" is an anagram of "Protagonist."
    ===External Links===
    * [http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erflatest.html Erfworld]
    * [http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erfcast.html The main cast of characters]
    ==References==
    <references/> [[Image:GiantitptrafficGraph.png|left|thumb|A graph that shows Giantitp.com collecting more traffic each day than some notable favourites.]]

    [[Category: 2000s webcomics]]
    [[Category: Fantasy webcomics]]
    [[Category: Fantasy parodies]]
    [[Category: Parody webcomics]]

    {{webcomic-stub}}

    I want a pony. In a sandwich.

    Member of the fan club since 050206

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    The frozen wastes
    Gender
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    Default Re: Wikipedia Article Deletion

    Merged articles:
    Spoiler
    Show
    {{Infobox Webcomic| <!-- Part of [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Webcomics]] -->
    | title = Erfworld
    | image =
    | caption =
    | author = Rob Balder
    | url = [http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0001.html ''Erfworld'']
    | status = Updated twice weekly, on Tuesdays and Saturdays.
    | began = [[2006]]
    | ended =
    | genre = [[fantasy]],[[comedy]],[[parody]]
    | ratings =
    }}

    '''Erfworld: The Battle for Gobwin Knob''' is a fantasy/comedy story-driven [[webcomic]] written by Rob Balder (the author of [[PartiallyClips]]) and illustrated by Jamie Noguchi. It is hosted on [[the order of the stick|Giant in the Playground Games]]<ref>http://www.giantitp.com/index.html#f4ajrwFnil3eXXfxy1o</ref>, the website famous for Rich Burlew's "The Order of the Stick".

    Erfworld follows a [[graphic novel]] format, with a new "page" released every update. It setting is a predominately fantasy [[turn-based strategy]] with a surreal, reference-filled narrative. The comic's humor largely revolves around strategy-fantasy [[videogames]], [[roleplaying]] games, [[popular culture]] references, and historical references, with frequent puns and sight-gags, as well as letter changes in frequently used names (spidews, dwagons and twolls instead of spiders, [[dragons]] and [[trolls]], for example). It is very varied and often apparently random.

    Erfworld's plot, setting, and characters are released under a a [[Creative Commons]] Attribution, Noncommercial, ShareAlike license<ref>http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29092</ref>.

    ==Characters==
    {{spoilers}}
    * '''Stanley the Tool, aka Lord Stanley The Plaid''': Overlord of the city of Gobwin Knob, and descendant of the nearly lost Plaid tribe, he is egotistical and has almost no tactical ability. He possesses the Arkenhammer, an ancient and mysterious tool of divine origin, resembling a toy hammer. Lord Stanley has declared an ongoing war as an effort to find the other Arkentools. Unfortunately, his inept handling of the war (such as promoting of only the most handsome men to warlord status) led to the loss of all the eleven cities he once owned, leaving only the capital of Gobwin Knob. He had Wanda summon "The perfect warlord" in an attempt to win the battle for Gobwin Knob, which yielded Parson Gotti.
    :In his first meeting with Parson, Stanley declared himself a "[[tool (insult)|tool]]", due to Parson convincing him that the highest title where Parson comes from is "tool". Drawing a connection between this title and his search for the Arkentools, Stanley happily declared himself a tool.
    * '''Wanda Firebaugh''': a [[necromancer|Croakamancer]] serving Lord Stanley. She is very patient and formal, and highly skilled in [[strategy]], although Lord Stanley's shortsightedness and [[ego]] tend to ruin her plans. Wanda tends toward depression and a lack of hope, mostly due to her Lord's [[incompetence]].
    :She is skilled at many types of magic, but has stated that only Croakamancy has any interest for her. She was the one who suggested using the [[warlord]] summoning spell, and cast the spell that drew Parson into Erfworld.
    * '''Prince Ansom''': The commander in charge of King Slately's army, in opposition of the armies of Lord Stanley. He is a skilled leader, but severely lacking in modesty<ref>http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erfcast.html</ref>. He appears to be attracted to Jillian Zamussels. His symbol is a red [[radish]]-like vegetable. He carries the Arkenpliers, though he is not attuned to them, and thus can not use their special abilities.
    * '''Jillian Zamussels''': A female barbarian and warlord, fighting for the army of Prince Ansom. She is very proud and independant, rarely follows orders, and prefers a frontal assault combat strategy. She has an [[Zanbato|unrealistically oversized sword]], recalling [[Final_Fantasy_weapons#Buster_Sword|similar weapons]] featured in [[Final Fantasy]] and other videogames.
    * '''Parson Gotti''': Author of the webcomic [http://www.hamstard.com Hamstard] (a fictional comic created for use in Erfworld's backstory), and an archetypical "hardcore" gamer who spends months at a time designing strategy games for his own amusement. He is overweight, slovenly and sarcastic but a gifted strategist and designer. He was summoned to Erfworld by Wanda on Lord Stanley's orders, called by a spell meant to summon "the ultimate warlord". Despite being visually inappropriate, Parson actually fulfills many of the requirements Lord Stanley asked for, such as: physical size, metabolic and linguistic compatibility, willingness to plan wars and "[kill] his foes for fun" (strategy gaming), and the desire to be summoned. Parson said he'd teleport into a fantasy world in a minute if he could<ref>http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0016.html</ref>, and was promptly summoned away.
    :Parson stands roughly twice as tall as Wanda Firebaugh, making him nearly three times Stanley the Tool's height. Parson has adapted well to his circumstances, believing that he's having a "Wizard of Oz" moment (or that he's in a [[coma]]) and thus is simply dreaming.
    ===Known Arkentools===
    '''Arkenhammer''': Owned and attuned to Stanley the Plaid/Tool, the Arkenhammer has the power to control dwagons, and apparently can also turn nuts into [[pigeon]]s.<br>
    '''Arkenpliers''': Owned but not attuned to Prince Ansom, they apparently have the power to turn any "uncroaked" (presumably meaning "undead") enemy to dust.

    ==Recognition and Acclaim==
    In its brief existence, Erfworld has been recognised and received acclaim from a wide variety of notable sources and webcomic authorities. Authors of other notable webcomics (not including Rob Balder and Rich Burlew) such as Howard Tayler of [[Schlock Mercenary]]<REF>http://www.schlockmercenary.com/blog/index.php/2007/01/14/what-exactly-is-an-erf/</REF> and [[Mohammad "Hawk" Haque]] of [[Applegeeks]]<ref>http://www.applegeeks.com/blog/?p=1441</ref> have posted reviews and comments about Erfworld, and it has been cited in numerous respected webcomic sites such as [[Comixpedia]]<ref>http://comixpedia.com/node/10133</ref> and [[Fleen]]<ref>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/01/19/what-on-erf-do-you-mean-my-language/</ref>, by outside authors such as [[Jonathan Coulton]] <ref>http://www.jonathancoulton.com/2007/01/17/i-pervade-more-media/</ref>, and perhaps most importantly by [[Time-Blog]] and [[Time magazine]] author/journalist [[Lev Grossman]] in his article ''Webcomics are the New Blogs''<ref>http://time-blog.com/nerd_world/2007/01/webcomics_are_the_new_blogs_th_2.html</ref>.
    ==External Links==
    * [http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erflatest.html Erfworld]
    * [http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erfcast.html The main cast of characters]
    ==Trivia==
    * "Parson Gotti" is an anagram of "Protagonist."

    [[Category:2000s webcomics|Erfworld]]
    [[Category:Fantasy webcomics|Erfworld]]
    [[Category: Fantasy parodies|Erfworld]]
    [[Category: Parody webcomics|Erfworld]]

    Edit: updated, merge done a bit better. Edit2: again.
    Last edited by Erk; 2007-02-12 at 10:08 PM.
    "River" cancels eat: Food is problematic.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Orc in the Playground
     
    pclips's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Northern Virginia

    Default Re: Wikipedia Article Deletion

    Warms my heart, guys. Thank you.

    You misspelled "existence" though, and I am on an open proxy barred from editing right now.
    Rob Balder, Erfworld author/co-creator, and creator of PartiallyClips

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    The frozen wastes
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Wikipedia Article Deletion

    Curses! I am melting! Anathema to a teacher of English >.< Thanks for the heads-up, I am emberised by my speling errar.

    I also forgot to add the references section.
    Spoiler
    Show
    {{Infobox Webcomic| <!-- Part of [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Webcomics]] -->
    | title = Erfworld
    | image =
    | caption =
    | author = Rob Balder
    | url = [http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0001.html ''Erfworld'']
    | status = Updated twice weekly, on Tuesdays and Saturdays.
    | began = [[2006]]
    | ended =
    | genre = [[fantasy]],[[comedy]],[[parody]]
    | ratings =
    }}

    '''Erfworld: The Battle for Gobwin Knob''' is a fantasy/comedy story-driven [[webcomic]] written by Rob Balder (the author of [[PartiallyClips]]) and illustrated by Jamie Noguchi. It is hosted on [[the order of the stick|Giant in the Playground Games]]<ref>http://www.giantitp.com/index.html#f4ajrwFnil3eXXfxy1o</ref>, the website famous for Rich Burlew's "The Order of the Stick".

    Erfworld follows a [[graphic novel]] format, with a new "page" released every update. It setting is a predominately fantasy [[turn-based strategy]] with a surreal, reference-filled narrative. The comic's humor largely revolves around strategy-fantasy [[videogames]], [[roleplaying]] games, [[popular culture]] references, and historical references, with frequent puns and sight-gags, as well as letter changes in frequently used names (spidews, dwagons and twolls instead of spiders, [[dragons]] and [[trolls]], for example). It is very varied and often apparently random.

    Erfworld's plot, setting, and characters are released under a a [[Creative Commons]] Attribution, Noncommercial, ShareAlike license<ref>http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29092</ref>.

    ==Characters==
    {{spoilers}}
    * '''Stanley the Tool, aka Lord Stanley The Plaid''': Overlord of the city of Gobwin Knob, and descendant of the nearly lost Plaid tribe, he is egotistical and has almost no tactical ability. He possesses the Arkenhammer, an ancient and mysterious tool of divine origin, resembling a toy hammer. Lord Stanley has declared an ongoing war as an effort to find the other Arkentools. Unfortunately, his inept handling of the war (such as promoting of only the most handsome men to warlord status) led to the loss of all the eleven cities he once owned, leaving only the capital of Gobwin Knob. He had Wanda summon "The perfect warlord" in an attempt to win the battle for Gobwin Knob, which yielded Parson Gotti.
    :In his first meeting with Parson, Stanley declared himself a "[[tool (insult)|tool]]", due to Parson convincing him that the highest title where Parson comes from is "tool". Drawing a connection between this title and his search for the Arkentools, Stanley happily declared himself a tool.
    * '''Wanda Firebaugh''': a [[necromancer|Croakamancer]] serving Lord Stanley. She is very patient and formal, and highly skilled in [[strategy]], although Lord Stanley's shortsightedness and [[ego]] tend to ruin her plans. Wanda tends toward depression and a lack of hope, mostly due to her Lord's [[incompetence]].
    :She is skilled at many types of magic, but has stated that only Croakamancy has any interest for her. She was the one who suggested using the [[warlord]] summoning spell, and cast the spell that drew Parson into Erfworld.
    * '''Prince Ansom''': The commander in charge of King Slately's army, in opposition of the armies of Lord Stanley. He is a skilled leader, but severely lacking in modesty<ref>http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erfcast.html</ref>. He appears to be attracted to Jillian Zamussels. His symbol is a red [[radish]]-like vegetable. He carries the Arkenpliers, though he is not attuned to them, and thus can not use their special abilities.
    * '''Jillian Zamussels''': A female barbarian and warlord, fighting for the army of Prince Ansom. She is very proud and independant, rarely follows orders, and prefers a frontal assault combat strategy. She has an [[Zanbato|unrealistically oversized sword]], recalling [[Final_Fantasy_weapons#Buster_Sword|similar weapons]] featured in [[Final Fantasy]] and other videogames.
    * '''Parson Gotti''': Author of the webcomic [http://www.hamstard.com Hamstard] (a fictional comic created for use in Erfworld's backstory), and an archetypical "hardcore" gamer who spends months at a time designing strategy games for his own amusement. He is overweight, slovenly and sarcastic but a gifted strategist and designer. He was summoned to Erfworld by Wanda on Lord Stanley's orders, called by a spell meant to summon "the ultimate warlord". Despite being visually inappropriate, Parson actually fulfills many of the requirements Lord Stanley asked for, such as: physical size, metabolic and linguistic compatibility, willingness to plan wars and "[kill] his foes for fun" (strategy gaming), and the desire to be summoned. Parson said he'd teleport into a fantasy world in a minute if he could<ref>http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0016.html</ref>, and was promptly summoned away.
    :Parson stands roughly twice as tall as Wanda Firebaugh, making him nearly three times Stanley the Tool's height. Parson has adapted well to his circumstances, believing that he's having a "Wizard of Oz" moment (or that he's in a [[coma]]) and thus is simply dreaming.
    ===Known Arkentools===
    '''Arkenhammer''': Owned and attuned to Stanley the Plaid/Tool, the Arkenhammer has the power to control dwagons, and apparently can also turn nuts into [[pigeon]]s.<br>
    '''Arkenpliers''': Owned but not attuned to Prince Ansom, they apparently have the power to turn any "uncroaked" (presumably meaning "undead") enemy to dust.

    ==Recognition and Acclaim==
    In its brief existence, Erfworld has been recognised and received acclaim from a wide variety of notable sources and webcomic authorities. Authors of other notable webcomics (not including Rob Balder and Rich Burlew) such as Howard Tayler of [[Schlock Mercenary]]<REF>http://www.schlockmercenary.com/blog/index.php/2007/01/14/what-exactly-is-an-erf/</REF> and [[Mohammad "Hawk" Haque]] of [[Applegeeks]]<ref>http://www.applegeeks.com/blog/?p=1441</ref> have posted reviews and comments about Erfworld, and it has been cited in numerous respected webcomic sites such as [[Comixpedia]]<ref>http://comixpedia.com/node/10133</ref> and [[Fleen]]<ref>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/01/19/what-on-erf-do-you-mean-my-language/</ref>, by outside authors such as [[Jonathan Coulton]] <ref>http://www.jonathancoulton.com/2007/01/17/i-pervade-more-media/</ref>, and perhaps most importantly by [[Time-Blog]] and [[Time magazine]] author/journalist [[Lev Grossman]] in his article ''Webcomics are the New Blogs''<ref>http://time-blog.com/nerd_world/2007/01/webcomics_are_the_new_blogs_th_2.html</ref>.

    ==References==
    <div class="references-small" style="-moz-column-count:2; column-count:2;">
    <references/>
    </div>
    ==External Links==
    * [http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erflatest.html Erfworld]
    * [http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erfcast.html The main cast of characters]

    ==Trivia==
    * "Parson Gotti" is an anagram of "Protagonist."

    [[Category:2000s webcomics|Erfworld]]
    [[Category:Fantasy webcomics|Erfworld]]
    [[Category: Fantasy parodies|Erfworld]]
    [[Category: Parody webcomics|Erfworld]]

    It is a pretty decent list. If they speedy delete it, this is like totally going on my MySpace.
    Last edited by Erk; 2007-02-12 at 10:13 PM.
    "River" cancels eat: Food is problematic.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2006

    Default Re: Wikipedia Article Deletion

    Eh, this is the problem with Wikipedia. Any tool can amble along and play titan.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Zentei's Law
    1. As an online discussion on the Order of the Stick forum grows longer, the probability of Miko Myazaki being mentioned approaches unity.
    2. He who mentions her in a disparaging way when irrelevant to the thread topic loses the argument.
    Fanclubbery list:

    Miko fanclub.

    Roy fanclub.

    Hinjo fanclub.

    The Chief fanclub.

    The Xykon fanclub. Because Evil is just that cool.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    The frozen wastes
    Gender
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    Default Re: Wikipedia Article Deletion

    That's not really the problem with wikipedia, that is the advantage. The problem is that the rules that are being lawyered need heavy revision, and it suffers from big-headedness. Wikipedia is great, but its designers and authors need to keep in mind that by its very nature it can never be a primary reference, and stop trying to treat it like one.

    But that's not the nature of this problem. This is just a small part of another idiotic internet feud, this one between a subset of wikipedians and the majority of the webcomic community.
    "River" cancels eat: Food is problematic.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    North to South
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Wikipedia Article Deletion

    "Wikipedia, keeping Encyclopedias in print since 2001."

    Truthfully, for all of its promise Wikipedia doesn't deliver. Your problem, and as was also pointed out the problem of webcomics in general, is just one of many. Even though everyone can edit, few enough people actually do, and people are given free run for their personal crusades and agendas with very little repercussion. Individuals, corporations, and heck even governments are able to hide behind their computers and do whatever they want. As for really good writers, what does it benefit them to write an article? Some punk may vandalize it, or delete it for no good reason and the author gets minimal recognition and no money.

    At best Wikipedia is springboard for research and information, at worst it is a bed of misinformation and the most petty of intrigues. And don't get me started on its supposed "neutrality".

    Huh, I am ranting, must be because I am old.

    In conclusion Erfworld and webcomics in general rock.
    Sacrificing Minions: is there any problem it CAN'T solve?
    prison change thog.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2006

    Default Re: Wikipedia Article Deletion

    Quote Originally Posted by Erk View Post
    That's not really the problem with wikipedia, that is the advantage. The problem is that the rules that are being lawyered need heavy revision, and it suffers from big-headedness. Wikipedia is great, but its designers and authors need to keep in mind that by its very nature it can never be a primary reference, and stop trying to treat it like one.
    And there is that.

    However, the fact that anyone can meander along and do as they wish to existing articles is precisely the issue. To allow this opens the possibility for abuse. To limit it is to abandon the wiki paradigm, at least to a degree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Erk View Post
    But that's not the nature of this problem. This is just a small part of another idiotic internet feud, this one between a subset of wikipedians and the majority of the webcomic community.
    It is a manifestation of the problem.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Zentei's Law
    1. As an online discussion on the Order of the Stick forum grows longer, the probability of Miko Myazaki being mentioned approaches unity.
    2. He who mentions her in a disparaging way when irrelevant to the thread topic loses the argument.
    Fanclubbery list:

    Miko fanclub.

    Roy fanclub.

    Hinjo fanclub.

    The Chief fanclub.

    The Xykon fanclub. Because Evil is just that cool.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2006

    Default Re: Wikipedia Article Deletion

    I really don't "get" all the downers on Wikipedia here. I can find hard references to stuff on there that astonishes me.

    All the cultural crap is just that: Crap. Gun for the real content, like the tensile strength of vanadium. :)

    Besides, it's hella cheaper than print encyclopedias. :)
    Roy Greenhilt: All leaders should aspire to his greatness!

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
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    The frozen wastes
    Gender
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    Default Re: Wikipedia Article Deletion

    erewhon: I spent a lot of time editing real articles about real subjects, including woodworking, Japanese food and local geography, and biochemistry. With the possible exception of woodworking, these are all things I flatter myself that I know quite a lot about. With the exception of woodworking, these are all things where I got utterly sick of reverting comments and added false "clarifications" by people who got their facts from the back of a crackerjack box, or were soapboxing for religious institutions or other groups (the latter are the worst, far worse than vandals. They go in and delete solid material because it is "perspective", or add a secondary "valid" opinion that has no references to compete with a well-referenced and backed up section. And I'm not just talking about hot topics like evolution or even scientific articles in general here).

    Although I have fun reading about topics I don't understand on wikipedia, I would never believe any tensile strength of vanadium statistics from it, not even enough to write a science fiction novel. I have firsthand experience for how seriously screwed-up even hard-fact articles get.
    Last edited by Erk; 2007-02-13 at 01:59 AM.
    "River" cancels eat: Food is problematic.

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