MitD VIII: Everything we know about MITD (but were afraid Tarrasque)

[Don Ohnic]

I am intrigued by the elder brain proposal, as it ticks so many boxes. However, the poor fit for the tower scene is a major problem with the theory, as commented above. Yet the psionic powers of the illithid/mind flayers/squid thingies fits the escape scene so well. So I had an idea that has been lurking in the back of my head for a few days.

The MitD could be the Adversary, legendary result from a faulty ceremorphosis where the illithid ”will take on the host's personality and memory in its entirety. This "Adversary" would, mind and soul, still be the host, but with all the inherent abilities of an illithid” (quote from the wikipedia entry that brian 333 linked to earlier in this thread, Illithids)

If the host is a babylike, slow-aging, very strong monster, with earthquake abilities, the host would account for DR and hitting power, and maybe the surprise from BGH. The illithid’s prionics would account for the escape scene, with psionic teleport or psionic greater teleport. The illithid version of a strong baby monster also fits the circus scene, in my opinion, as it is very uncommon for illithid’s to ceremorph with other than normal-sized humanoid creatures, according to the same wikipedia source as above.

I also think tha Adversary fits the wording of the fine line, as it is definitely not made up by Rich, although Rich most certainly must have decided which creature is the host of the illithid, and how the Adversary works in OotS-world.

One more thing, this could also explain why Xykon and Redcloak expects MitD to be more scary than he is. They expect a LE illithid creature, although the Adversary in this case would be a baby monster, yet with illithid powers.

Now, I don’t really know the rules for the illithid ceremorphosis. I think this theory works best if an already powerful illithid tride to morph with tha baby monster, and faild to form the Adversary. I do not know if this is possible, according to the rules. Maybe the best fit would be a failed ceremorphosis of an elder brain and a baby monster; yet again I do not know if the rules would allow that.

Please comment, I fully expect there to be severe problems with this theory.

All the best.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Not sure if you mean a specific link, but you're describing a grell.

I have seen it drawn OotS-style, so I was hoping someone would remember where, and link to that (it's either a stand-alone joke or a page punchline, IIRC. Maybe connected to the flumphs?)

I still think a disembodied brain is likely to have eyes.

The grells are a counter to this particular point; sorry, I should've linked to the original statement to make it clear I was answering it. In any case, here is a disembodied brain with no eyes, so there is no reason to think the elder brains need to have them. We have had other proposals whose lack of eyes is an unknown, since most creatures's fluff don't mention eyes even when they do have them, so how is one to know? I believe that official pictures of the thing don't have eyes, and when in doubt we tend to consider them more "official" than the lack of mention in the description. YMMV and all that, I'm just talking as OP-maintainer.

The MitD could be the Adversary, legendary result from a faulty ceremorphosis where the illithid ”will take on the host's personality and memory in its entirety.

Does anyone have a link to a standalone write-up of this?

In any case, taking it at face value, I'd say it would be a candidate for an entry in the augmentation section, equivalent to a half-illithid half-strong creature or to the psionic template on a high-CR creature.

Grey Wolf

[b_jonas]

The grells are a counter to this particular point; sorry, I should've linked to the original statement to make it clear I was answering it. In any case, here is a disembodied brain with no eyes, so there is no reason to think the elder brains need to have them. We have had other proposals whose lack of eyes is an unknown, since most creatures's fluff don't mention eyes even when they do have them, so how is one to know?

Yes, you're right of course. I'm surprised that disembodied brains are illustrated like this, but that's how it is. It's not the most important problem with the transcended squid thingy anyway.

[lothos]

re: The Adversary

.......Does anyone have a link to a standalone write-up of this?

In any case, taking it at face value, I'd say it would be a candidate for an entry in the augmentation section, equivalent to a half-illithid half-strong creature or to the psionic template on a high-CR creature.

Grey Wolf

According to this page, the details were in a 2nd Edition module called "Dawn of the Overmind". The relevant section is:

In the 2nd Edition AD&D adventure Dawn of the Overmind, author Bruce Cordell revealed the nature of the Adversary. This being was an illithid created from the host body of a man named Strom Wakeman, a character referenced in some of Cordell's other 2nd Edition works, most notably as the "author" of The Illithiad supplement.

Wakeman, an enterprising trader and scholar of Underdark exotica, allowed himself to be captured by the illithids on one of his expeditions. Through the use of a non-magical mixture of various herbs that Wakeman named laethen, he was able to preserve his consciousness through ceremorphosis, and learned to use his psionic powers to keep from having to consume brains. Thus he worked against the illithid plots from within. The legend of the Adversary was born from his frequent sabotage, though the actual acts were never connected to him. The players' characters in the adventure become his agents in stopping the illithids' plans, as his own movements rely upon secrecy from his "fellow" illithids.

For another person to imitate Wakeman's deed would require at least one dose of laethen (the making of which Wakeman kept secret) and to be put under ceremorphosis within a week of consumption. The drug only has a 40% chance of success, and the new illithid must also never consume a brain, for the act destroys the host's personality and replaces it with the illithid personality.

The thing is, even if we think that MitD is "The Adversary", he would have powers similar to a regular Illithid, though without the alignment. An "base" Illithid has a C.R of 8, according to P187 of Monster Manual 1. Such a creature couldn't explain "Escape", or either part of the tower scene, nor would it have a high spellcraft or knowledge (the planes), both of which I think are good explanations for the strips where he knows about the "half ritual" or the nature of the Astral Plane.

There is an example of a 9th level Illithid Sorcerer, with a C.R of 17. However I don't know that I'd really think MitD is a monster who just happens to have (say) 18 levels of Sorcerer to explain the Escape with Wish. (Or I guess 14 ? levels of Psion to get Greater Psionic Teleport, or whatever level a Psion needs to be to get that power/spell). I'm personally of the opinion that this doesn't constitute something we could reasonably guess with the evidence we have.

Also, if we assume that MitD is some other creature (not a human) who took this potion and then deliberately got a mind flayer tadpole put in his ear, then we need to determine what the "base" creature was in that case. So I don't think this that useful, but I guess it's worth considering.

[rweird]

If he had 14 levels of sorcerer, he wouldn't need 5 levels of cleric to be able to cast Animate Dead.

[lothos]

If he had 14 levels of sorcerer, he wouldn't need 5 levels of cleric to be able to cast Animate Dead.

Wouldn't that depend on what spells he had chosen as a sorcerer ?

A couple of years ago, when the Escape scene first happened. I spent some time looking through various Monster Manuals for creatures with enough levels of Sorcerer spell casting levels as an inherent part of their make-up to be able to cast Wish (so not just added on as an example of an advanced version of the creature). That's what originally drew my attention to the dread linnorm.

When considering Escape, my own feelings (which I know others in this thread share) are that a spell like ability is the best explanation, then the 2nd best explanation is the ability to either manifest psionic powers, or equally well, to cast spells spontaneously (Sorcerer, Favoured Soul, Bard).

I suggested a few threads back that levels of any class that involve preparing spells just don't sit right with me an explanation for Escape, because of what Rich said in the S.O.D commentary about how MitD discovered he had powers he didn't even know he had.

So I do think it's possible MitD has levels of Sorcerer somehow (just doesn't have any Necromancy spells that allow him to animate dead). Conceivably he could have levels of favoured soul, but I never found a single monster that has levels of favoured soul listed as part of it's abilities. He could easily have levels of Psion or some other posionic class. But if he does have levels of any of those, then I don't think Rich added them on as an augmentation or to "advance" the creature.

If we allowed such creatures, why not say MitD is <<any creature that looks weird, that eats and sleeps>> with 20 levels of Psion, Sorcerer or Favoured Soul (or theoretically Bard with Sublime Chord....). I don't think such a creature is something we could reasonably guess..

Cheers.

[rweird]

Sorcerers get to replace 1 spell known with another of the same level every even numbered level after 2nd, meaning he'd only need to get two levels of sorcerer, so a more appropriate comment would be "Unless you changed your spells known."

[brian 333]

As an added piece of info to confuse the mix:

Of all the characters in OotS, MitD knows that what everyone is calling gates are not gates at all, something the protagonists are just beginning to realize.

This would mean that MitD is, at the least, capable of sensing actual Gates, and quite likely innately attuned to Astral activity. Or not, it may be unrelated. However, MitD continually repudiates the idea that what they are seeing is in fact a gate.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

As an added piece of info to confuse the mix:

Of all the characters in OotS, MitD knows that what everyone is calling gates are not gates at all, something the protagonists are just beginning to realize.

This would mean that MitD is, at the least, capable of sensing actual Gates, and quite likely innately attuned to Astral activity. Or not, it may be unrelated. However, MitD continually repudiates the idea that what they are seeing is in fact a gate.

This idea is new, but your logic does not follow. Assuming for a second that it is not a running joke - a big assumption - note that whatever you want to call the rifts, that was not what Xykon was pointing at when the first comment was made. Xykon was pointing to a large, wooden barrier in the shape of a gate that he had put in front of the actual gate/rift to stop his zombies from frying themselves on the defences left behind by Dorukan.

Why MitD was incapable of understanding that the wooden structure is a gate (again, assuming not a joke) has nothing to do with astral tuning, because the wooden gate itself is not in nay significant way connected to the astral plane. The best explanation so far other than "joke" is that MitD does not know the meaning of gate, which might be because he think gate is the magical doorway to other places. Since we know he has been or has seen the Astral plane before, it is possible he knows what the magic gate is because he has used one before and does not know what a regular gate is because he has never seen one before the one in Dorukan's dungeon.

Grey Wolf

[Crusher]

I've been toying around with various possibilities, none of them working out, and by accident I came across an old one and I'm pondering if we gave it short-shrift. It certainly got serious consideration, but it was a pretty decent candidate and I'm thinking its time for a reconsideration.

Anyway, without further ado, I re-present the Glabrezu (not that I was the one who originally presented it, I'm just doing the re-presenting). http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/demon.htm

I'm also going to re-do my usual presentation style in favor of the new 7 point test from the FBS listing on the front page:

1 - Escape Scene - Glabrezu can grant a wish to a humanoid mortal once per month. A few panels before the actual disappearance, MitD says to O-Chul "O-Chul, you need to get out of here! He's gonna be really mad when he gets back!" and O'Chul says "Agreed. We must..." and he's interrupted when Xykon smashes through the wall to get to them. Xykon chews the scenery a bit and then MitD blathers a bit, and he ends by saying "...You gotta leave right now!" to which O-Chul replies "Gllrck!" because Xykon's bony hand is in O-Chul's mouth. O-Chul could have been saying something like "We need to escape!" which MitD understood because Glabrezu's are telepathic, MitD dug deep, and discovered he had the ability to grant O-Chul's wish.

This is nice in a couple ways. First, Glabrezus cannot grant their *own* wishes, which is why MitD's later attempts to Wish or Teleport things didn't work. Also, Glabrezus grant wishes in ways that cause trouble to the recipients. This is a stretch, but as a result of the escape, O-Chul was immediately tasked with spending weeks if not months riding a shark, an animal he had just spent weeks if not months being tortured by.

2 - Tower Scene - 31 STR is just barely over the minimum, DR 10/good. Paladin weapons are not considered innately good-aligned until Paladins reach level 14, which Miko probably was not.

3 - Circus Scene - A Pit Fiend is all-around a better candidate than a Glabrezu *except* for this part. A Pit Fiend looks pretty much like a standard picture of a Devil/Demon, but a Glabrezu is pretty weird looking. An interpretation like this: http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/i/20...ke-d622krv.jpg is scary and weird looking but doesn't automatically scream "demonic", plus has a 20 CHR.

4 - Impossible category? Nope, Demon is not an impossible category

5 - Existed before strip #100? Yep

6 - No larger than "Huge"? Its Huge and pretty much pushing the limits of MitD's maximum allowable size

7 - Vulnerable to mind-affecting effects? Certainly

A lot of the rest of the points are pretty well trodden already, but I'll sum them up quickly.

Pros
- Demon in a jungle would be a surprise
- Demon speaking common would be a surprise (Glabrezu's are telepathic, and are listed as speaking Abyssal, Celestial and Draconic)
- Originally we weren't sure that demons ate or had parents in the Stick-verse which were considered problems, but we've had demons refer to eating and having parents since then so we know its possible
- Decently smart and wise (16 INT and WIS), but not genius level which actually seems appropriate. Sure, MitD picked up Go very quickly, but that's by the perspective of O-Chul who, while awesome, probably didn't actually put much into INT or WIS himself. If O-Chul is, say, INT 10, WIS 12, a 16/16 would seem pretty impressive. If MitD was solidly Epic and sported mental stats in the 30s, even not thinking for himself MitD would come across as borderline god-like in terms of insight and intellect. While its hinted MitD is smart, O-Chul doesn't really seem awed.
- Has teeth, correct number of eyes, etc
- Physically strong, but has pincers on the end of the 2 "big" limbs, making it a little tricky to grab things without slicing through them or be very nimble with them. Also wasn't there a point on the coloring book where it looked like MitD might arguably have 3 or more limbs? 2 pairs of "arms" would work here.
- Ranks in Knowledge and Spellcraft

Cons
- Comes from a morality plane. In some ways this is actually the biggest issue, that MitD would *have* to be an embodiment of Chaotic Evil. Don't really have an explanation for this.
- CR13 is a little low and wouldn't be a major threat to the Order, today. On the other hand, the OotS were all only level 9 back in strip #100. Back then, CR13 would have been plenty impressive and would have worked fine as a major threat.

Anyway, thought this might be worth food for thought.

Edit - Various edits for clarity

[rodneyAnonymous]

Earthquake stomp?

Could continuous true seeing have something to do with the "what gate?" thing?

[Crusher]

Nothing specific other than STR.

Edit - Also realized, as a very minor Pro, Glabrezus have Persuasive as a racial trait, giving them +2 to Bluff and Intimidate checks, which could help explain how MitD talked Xykon and Redcloak into not finishing the Order off at the pyramid.

[lothos]

Sorcerers get to replace 1 spell known with another of the same level every even numbered level after 2nd, meaning he'd only need to get two levels of sorcerer, so a more appropriate comment would be "Unless you changed your spells known."

I hadn't considered that, so good point. However I think it's important to consider that in this thread we are not necessarily a typical reader of the comic. We are pouring over every minute detail of every panel that MitD has been in, or referenced in. Although Rich certainly knows we are here, I don't think he writes the comic just for us.

I think that even if MitD does get his powers like "Escape" from the ability to cast spells as a sorcerer (or favoured soul, or bard, or spirit shaman), then even though those classes can switch out a spell every even numbered level, I don't think Rich is likely to make Redcloak's speech bubble become as large as Celia's and the other lawyer here to allow for the possibility that what Redcloak said could be technically disputed as incorrect in this thread.

I mean, I could be wrong. I don't have any special insight in to what Rich thinks, it just seems to me that he wouldn't do that. That's just my [humble] opinion of course.

....the Glabrezu (not that I was the one who originally presented it, I'm just doing the re-presenting). http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/demon.htm.....

I do like point #1 in particular, neat that it can grant others wishes, but not it's own. However regarding the terms of the wish, the link on the SRD website you mention says this:

Once per month, a glabrezu can fulfill a wish for a mortal humanoid. The demon can use this ability to offer a mortal whatever he or she desires—but unless the wish is used to create pain and suffering in the world, the glabrezu demands either terrible evil acts or great sacrifice as compensation.

I'm not sure that does fit well with what happened. I read what you said about him having to then ride a shark for ages... but I don't think that is causing "Pain and Suffering in the World"... Perhaps you can hand wave it away by saying "Oh, but MitD is a reformed Glabrezu who isn't evil"... maybe.

One other thing, it has knowledge (any two) +18. That could be Knowledge (The Planes) and Knowledge (Arcana). Also it has +18 spellcraft. This could explain knowledge of the Astral plain and the "Stupid Half Ritual".

They apparently have violet eyes, not yellow... probably not a critical problem.

C.R 13 seems too low to me.. but maybe.

Interesting idea.

[rweird]

I hadn't considered that, so good point. However I think it's important to consider that in this thread we are not necessarily a typical reader of the comic. We are pouring over every minute detail of every panel that MitD has been in, or referenced in. Although Rich certainly knows we are here, I don't think he writes the comic just for us.

I think that even if MitD does get his powers like "Escape" from the ability to cast spells as a sorcerer (or favoured soul, or bard, or spirit shaman), then even though those classes can switch out a spell every even numbered level, I don't think Rich is likely to make Redcloak's speech bubble become as large as Celia's and the other lawyer here to allow for the possibility that what Redcloak said could be technically disputed as incorrect in this thread.

I mean, I could be wrong. I don't have any special insight in to what Rich thinks, it just seems to me that he wouldn't do that. That's just my [humble] opinion of course.

Assuming Red Cloak correctly knows what the MitD is and its effective [spontaneous caster] level, he could just as easily say "Unless you learned Animate Dead recently, no." (Which would still be ambiguous to whether he can cast spells, but still be concise), or he could say "Unless you gained another [1 or two depending on even or odd number of levels originally, or when he'd get another 4th level spell known] level in [class] and learned animate dead, no." Which is hardly massive.

I think it more likely would be him not remembering that [class] can A) Cast animate dead, or B) Change its spell list, or by far the most likely, C) Doesn't have spellcasting.

[lothos]

............or by far the most likely, C) Doesn't have spellcasting.

So would it be fair to say that your saying that you think only a Spell Like Ability is a reasonable explanation for Escape ? Are you suggesting that if MitD had the ability to cast spells - from any source, such as inherently having 18 levels of Sorcerer, or having 18 levels of Psion, as part of his monster description, then that would mean Rich would have phrased Redcloak's speech differently ?

Or are you just saying that we can rule out "Monster X with an additional 18 levels of Sorcerer, or other spell casting class, added on to the 'normal' version of the creature" ?

If you are saying the first one, then that's a reasonable position, though I'm not sure I agree with the conclusion myself.

If you are saying it's the second one, then I agree, but not because of what Redcloack said about animating undead, instead I just think we couldn't possibly guess it, so it would violate how I understand Rich's comments about "It is possible to guess"...

Or perhaps you are saying something else, in which case, I apologise for misunderstanding.

I think an SLA is the best explanation for "Escape", but it's my opinion that "inherent" levels in a spontaneous casting class (Those that every monster of that type has) are a possible explanation (wish or Psionic Teleport being best), just not quite as good as an SLA.

[Qwertystop]

I would assume that Redcloak losing an eye partly because of the escape doesn't count as "pain and suffering"? Nobody ever said it had to be suffering for Good creatures.

[Crusher]

I do like point #1 in particular, neat that it can grant others wishes, but not it's own. However regarding the terms of the wish, the link on the SRD website you mention says this:
I'm not sure that does fit well with what happened. I read what you said about him having to then ride a shark for ages... but I don't think that is causing "Pain and Suffering in the World"... Perhaps you can hand wave it away by saying "Oh, but MitD is a reformed Glabrezu who isn't evil"... maybe.

Yeah, I've seen the description of the Wish vary a bit in different places. At least one source (though I don't remember which one), described the Wish as more along the lines of, if it wasn't a wish for a clearly evil purpose it would be fulfilled in a way that resulted in trouble. There was an example of a blacksmith wishing for great talent and success. As soon as the wish was fulfilled, the local lord (a cruel psycho) immediately hears how great the smith is, captures the smith, and makes the smith only work for him.

I mean, that's bad and all, but its a little underwhelming as far as "evil twists" go (as opposed to something like turning the smith's children into the hammers he had to use, requiring him to heat his forge with human souls, or something else really dreadful). Spending a few weeks riding a shark felt like a reasonably decent comparison.

It does back-handedly suggest the Glabrezus are perhaps the "B" team when it comes to cleverly manipulating and corrupting people.



Glabrezu: "And while I will grant your wish to become master of all things cold, you phrased your wish poorly and there will be an EVIL PRICE TO BE PAID!"

Wishing Person: "OH NO! WHAT HAVE I DONE?"

Balor: (nods approvingly)

Glabrezu: "You must eat Popsicles until you get a cold-headache to fuel your power! BWAHAHAHAHA!"

Wishing Person: "Um... yeah, ok."

Balor: (facepalm)

[brian 333]

Given the literal use of phrases when spellcasting or using special abilities:

I memorized Explosive Runes this morning.
Sneak Attack Bitch!
Greater Magic Missiles. And more Greater Magic Missiles.

I find it difficult to believe that a Wish spell could be cast without using the word Wish in the phrase. We have MitD using several powers, (Earthquake Stomp, Stop, Escape, etc.) without using the word Wish.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Given the literal use of phrases when spellcasting or using special abilities:

I memorized Explosive Runes this morning.
Sneak Attack Bitch!
Greater Magic Missiles. And more Greater Magic Missiles.

I find it difficult to believe that a Wish spell could be cast without using the word Wish in the phrase. We have MitD using several powers, (Earthquake Stomp, Stop, Escape, etc.) without using the word Wish.

Selective memory fallacy, I'm afraid. We have been told that you do not need to shout sneak attack, that's just an affectation. IIRC, Xykon didn't say the name of the mind-control spell he used on MitD. And Laurin definitely doesn't say the spell names aloud.

So, depending on what you decide for Xykon, at the very least SLAs and psionics can be done without mentioning the actual spell name, and likely neither do sorcery spontaneous casting.

Grey Wolf

[rweird]

lothos: I would say it can't have levels, or effective levels in a spellcasting class that has Animate Dead on its spell list (so Psion would be fine, as it can't cast Animate Dead, IIRC, as would bard, druid, Ranger, Paladin, etc). Spell-like abilities are fine, although technically, Wish/Miracle/Reality revision (the most likely, IMO) to be able to do that, would be able to animate the dead, I'd assume Redcloak doesn't want the MitD to A) Start making wish-esques or the like in its childish way for unknown consequences, B) Didn't remember that the MitD can/didn't want to take the time to explain, C) The wish-esques are in some way limited and not to be wasted on something as trivial as animating zombies, or D) Doesn't know the MitD can use said ability, and is in some way incorrect about what he thinks it is.

Then again, it could be Teleport and happening to roll well or something along those lines, and not a Wish-ish ability at all.

Grey_Wolf_c: For components, by RAW, most spells have a verbal component. Psionics and SLAs don't. Actual casting tends to follow that rule, although it at times is broken, either because Rich forgets, or for rule of drama and concise storytelling.

[lothos]

lothos: I would say it can't have levels, or effective levels in a spellcasting class that has Animate Dead on its spell list (so Psion would be fine, as it can't cast Animate Dead, IIRC, as would bard, druid, Ranger, Paladin, etc). Spell-like abilities are fine, although technically, Wish/Miracle/Reality revision (the most likely, IMO) to be able to do that, would be able to animate the dead, I'd assume Redcloak doesn't want the MitD to A) Start making wish-esques or the like in its childish way for unknown consequences, B) Didn't remember that the MitD can/didn't want to take the time to explain, C) The wish-esques are in some way limited and not to be wasted on something as trivial as animating zombies, or D) Doesn't know the MitD can use said ability, and is in some way incorrect about what he thinks it is.

Then again, it could be Teleport and happening to roll well or something along those lines, and not a Wish-ish ability at all.

That's a very reasonable position and I see the logic in your argument. I'm not sure I share your conclusion, but I can't argue with what you are saying.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

<<description of how the Glabrezu is so bad at deciding what constitutes a terrible and evil price>>

I have never heard of a Glabrezu until you brought it up, so I have no opinion on if this is really how they behave, but I would like to make two observations.

1. In favour of this, is that back from strip 103, we do know that MitD is rather bad at being evil.

2. Against the idea of him being a Glabrezu, if he is an evil outsider, it's harder for me to believe that O'Chul has moved him to a path of good over the course of his interaction with monster-san.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Earlier today, I had another idea. I borrowed some 3.5 edition books from a friend of mine a couple of weeks ago (how I looked up the Elder Illithid Brain). I wanted to draw the thread's attention to a template that I don't think has been mentioned so far (I couldn't find mention of it in section 2d of the first post of this thread).

Have we previously discussed the "Sanctified Creature" template from page 187 of the Book of Exalted Deeds ?

I know many people feel that template stacking isn't a good explanation for MitD, however I wanted to flag a couple of things in this template that might be important.

1. This template apparently has a consequence of changing a creatures eyes. The actual block on "creating a sanctified creature" doesn't say that, but the example creature, a sanctified red dragon is described thus:

A Sactified red dragon looks virtually identical in form from it's evil kin, except it's eyes glow like pools of golden radiance and it keeps itself neatly groomed.

So initially I was thinking if we were considering the Glabrezu and it had purple eyes, perhaps we should consider a sactified one... unfortunatly according to the template this template can't be applied to evil outsiders.

Even so, maybe some other creature (one that has eyes, so probably not an elder brain) might have this template applied, so it would mean it had glowing golden eyes.

2.This template grants tongues as an always active supernatural ability. So that might explain how he was able to speak common to the stereotyped big game hunters when they found him, even though "one of these" normally doesn't. They would not necessarily notice he was sanctified because his appearance would be almost identical to a normal creature of his type (apart from maybe his eyes). So they might well say "one of these" even though he is a templatated creature. Also, the base creatures environment dosn't change, so it would still be unusual to find it in the jungle.

3. The C.R of the creature increases by +1, so it would be a fraction more powerful than it's normal counterparts. I don't think this matters much, but it might be considered slightly more dangerous.

4.The Book of Exalted Deeds was published in 2003, so before strip 100.

There's one problem with this template for MitD. The fluff text says that "Many sanctified creatures feel a burning desire to purge their past evil deeds by performing selfless and heroic acts....". Although it doesn't say ALL sanctified creatures do this, it's not really what we see MitD doing.

Cheers.

[Jay R]

They apparently have violet eyes, not yellow... probably not a critical problem.

The MitD's eye color was determined before Rich knew what it was. This could easily be an inaccuracy that he couldn't fix.

I'd be much more concerned about something that happened later that didn't fit.

[lothos]

The MitD's eye colour was determined before Rich knew what it was. This could easily be an inaccuracy that he couldn't fix.

That's certainly possible... or he decided that he would make the creature he chose have the sanctified template so it did match. Either is possible. I just thought the fact that the template made this change was neat.

I'd be much more concerned about something that happened later that didn't fit.

Agreed.

[DaggerPen]

To add to the verbal component bit, Redcloak and Miko also both heal themselves sans verbal component during their battle (see here: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0371.html ), and on the page before Xykon kills the guard with a spell sans verbal component. So it's pretty common for spells to be cast without verbal component for the sake of drama or page flow.

[rweird]

To add to the verbal component bit, Redcloak and Miko also both heal themselves sans verbal component during their battle (see here: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0371.html ), and on the page before Xykon kills the guard with a spell sans verbal component. So it's pretty common for spells to be cast without verbal component for the sake of drama or page flow.

Milko, conceivably is using Lay on Hands, Red Cloak, on the other hand, is unlikely to have silent healing spells prepared.

[b_jonas]

Why MitD was incapable of understanding that the wooden structure is a gate (again, assuming not a joke) has nothing to do with astral tuning, because the wooden gate itself is not in nay significant way connected to the astral plane. The best explanation so far other than "joke" is that MitD does not know the meaning of gate, which might be because he think gate is the magical doorway to other places. Since we know he has been or has seen the Astral plane before, it is possible he knows what the magic gate is because he has used one before and does not know what a regular gate is because he has never seen one before the one in Dorukan's dungeon.

Yes, thinking "gate" refers to a magical gate is a good explanation. But I still claim that no, we don't know that the MitD has seen the Astral Plane before.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Yes, thinking "gate" refers to a magical gate is a good explanation. But I still claim that no, we don't know that the MitD has seen the Astral Plane before.

Which is a perfectly logical conclusion to draw. Gate need not take you to the Astral Plane, after all - MitD could have been Gated to any other Plane, thus still knowing the spell by name but without having been to Astral Plane. Now IF someone thinks MitD has been to the Astral Plane AND if someone is of the "MitD only calls gate to the spell" camp, THEN it is a small step to conclude he may have used Gate to travel through the Astral Plane in the past. But if you reject either conjecture, the thread falls apart.

Grey Wolf

[Kruploy]

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[DaggerPen]

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Attention everyone spending hours on end analyzing the plotline of a fictional stick figure story about a D&D world two systems out of date:

You are analyzing the wrong thing, and thus no matter that you clearly are enjoying yourselves, you are wasting your time.

Perhaps now that you have realized this, you can move on to more productive activities like stepping into long-running threads and harshing their buzzes, too. I hear the Class and Level Geekery thread still thinks the characters have stats!

[Jaxzan Proditor]

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We are essentially waiting for more information. To pass the time, we are looking over previous entries and examining new ones to see if we missed something, since neither we not you can be certain that we've examined every possible candidate yet.