MitD VIII: Everything we know about MITD (but were afraid Tarrasque)

[Grey_Wolf_c]

(link)

GW

[Crusher]

I'm sad I missed the actual post. Just as well, I suppose.

[Peelee]

I'm sad I missed the actual post. Just as well, I suppose.

Samesies, but having Grey Wolf post a topical XKCD strip made up for it.

[AgentPaper]

I'm sad I missed the actual post. Just as well, I suppose.

It's basically exactly what you're imagining.

[thatSeniorGuy]

I'm sad I missed the actual post.

Don't be. It'-

It's basically exactly what you're imagining.

Yeah that. GW, I'm very impressed by the way you handled that, but then again you've had a lot of practice I suppose

[Kruploy]

Erm; I didn't have any malicious intentions though I see how my post could be interpreted that way lol.

I suppose I did come off as somewhat condescending, apologies for that buzz.

Anyway; did you guys actually get anywhere yet?

What's the progress?

[ChristianSt]

Erm; I didn't have any malicious intentions though I see how my post could be interpreted that way lol.

I suppose I did come off as somewhat condescending, apologies for that buzz.

Anyway; did you guys actually get anywhere yet?

What's the progress?

If you mean "does this thread progress in what it wants to achieve?", then yes, this thread does it all the time.

If you mean "is this thread close at revealing what the MitD is?", then no. Because that isn't really the goal this thread has, because no one (other than Rich) can say whether we have figured it out or not.

[Murk]

If you mean "does this thread progress in what it wants to achieve?", then yes, this thread does it all the time.

If you mean "is this thread close at revealing what the MitD is?", then no. Because that isn't really the goal this thread has, because no one (other than Rich) can say whether we have figured it out or not.

Well, through the history of this thread, there have been quite a lot of creatures who we're pretty sure are not the MitD. Of course we could be mistaken, when the Giant suddenly reveals the MitD is the Son of Snarl, but that's a rather farfetched situation.
So, yeah, we made progress, partially through the list of No's.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Well, through the history of this thread, there have been quite a lot of creatures who we're pretty sure are not the MitD. Of course we could be mistaken, when the Giant suddenly reveals the MitD is the Son of Snarl, but that's a rather farfetched situation.
So, yeah, we made progress, partially through the list of No's.

We have to be careful about this, though. Just because to Murk and Grey Wolf there is a bunch of creatures that cannot possibly be the MitD (e.g. centaur), that doesn't mean that such conviction is common across all participants (e.g. Psammead). Every creature in the first page was proposed by someone. Sure, in many cases they were proposed in full knowledge that they didn't fit all the clues (Crusher, as usual, springs to mind as our most successful contributor) but instead proposed because they were close or offered an interesting twist on how they approached the clues, both of which are very useful to the thread as a way to foster discussion and further knowledge of MitD. But in other cases, the creatures were proposed with sincere belief that they were MitD, regardless of how far-fetched they seemed to others, and our worst flamewars have consistently happened when those beliefs were challenged. I do not keep track of which creatures were proposed for what purpose (it would likely be impossible to do so, anyway), so all creatures in the front page should be treated as equal - yes, some fit better or worse, but in many ways such fitness is an exercise in subjective judgement that is to be taken with certain amount of caution as to how extended such judgement is shared.

Yours,

Grey Wolf

[Ron Miel]

Has anyone suggested that he's a Pooka?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C3%BAca

- A fairy creature with magical abilities.

- Shapeshifter, he might appear differently to different people.

- has the power of human speech

- Whatever form he uses, he's usually covered in dark fur. Good for hiding in shadows.

- Has glowing yellow eyes.

- Some are known to devour humans, while others have a benevolent nature.

- even the benevolent ones may have a terrifying appearance.

- Hungry - will devour all your crops if you don't harvest them on time

- can devastate the land (with an earthquake?) unless you leave a pooka's share of the crop.

[MesiDoomstalker]

On Glaber-whatevers and their evil-twisting wishes: The entry states that if the Wish doesn't bring suffering to the world (an inherent part of the wish being made by O'Chul in this case), then the Glaber-whatever demands great evil. As in, will not relinquish its Wish without the Wishee doing some crazy evilness. By my interpretation its the Glaber-whatever's perogative if a wish produces enough suffering since he can make non-suffering Wishes if the Wishee does stuff for the Glaber-whatever.

[AsteronIronhoof]

Hmm... A nice suggestion, but there are a few problems.

1) It doesn't appear to have an explanation for the escape scene.
2) Doesn't explain the tower scene.

[SavageWombat]

Hmm... A nice suggestion, but there are a few problems.

1) It doesn't appear to have an explanation for the escape scene.
2) Doesn't explain the tower scene.

That depends on whether someone finds a writeup for it somewhere. It does fit my criterion nicely - a well-known mythological creature WITHOUT a canonical D&D form.

I don't remember it being in 3rd ed, but it's been a while. I think it might have been in a different edition, or possibly a module?

[Crusher]

Has anyone suggested that he's a Pooka?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C3%BAca

- A fairy creature with magical abilities.

- Shapeshifter, he might appear differently to different people.

- has the power of human speech

- Whatever form he uses, he's usually covered in dark fur. Good for hiding in shadows.

- Has glowing yellow eyes.

- Some are known to devour humans, while others have a benevolent nature.

- even the benevolent ones may have a terrifying appearance.

- Hungry - will devour all your crops if you don't harvest them on time

- can devastate the land (with an earthquake?) unless you leave a pooka's share of the crop.

Hmm, that's interesting. The biggest problem I've got is the apparent lack of great STR and sturdy defenses, as a Pooka seems unlikely to be able to casually knock a horse entirely through a stone wall. I was eventually able to find a stat-ed version but it was only CR3.

[mouser9169]

I'm not sure that does fit well with what happened. I read what you said about him having to then ride a shark for ages... but I don't think that is causing "Pain and Suffering in the World"... Perhaps you can hand wave it away by saying "Oh, but MitD is a reformed Glabrezu who isn't evil"... maybe.

I think if you solve the "Glabrezu not an incarnate embodiment of evil" problem, this becomes a minor inconvenience. The SRD is describing what a _typical_ glabrezu would do. Why would it want to grant a wish that didn't bring a lot of evil to the world? That would be a waste of that limited resource.

Once you grant that MitD is not inherently evil, what HE would do could be entirely different.


The part I've been thinking about lately is the ritual. You can attribute a lot of things like the tower scene to "rule of funny". It just proves that MitD is very, very strong, not that it can literally plow a horse through a stone wall (although maybe it can). Being able to glance at a ritual and almost instantly realize it's only half a ritual... Yes, it advances a plot point, and maybe it was the only way Rich could think of to conveniently get that information to Tsukiko, but I tend to think there was more to it than that. Another possibility is that the MitD has actually seen the ritual before or heard Xykon and Redcloak talking about it somewhere, so he knew what it was.

I'm of the "MitD has a very high intelligence, but low wisdom" camp. The low wisdom can be due to age and lack of experience, which explains how he can now think of things like how to convince Xykon that "Flopsy" isn't something he should waste time on so that avenue of potential information/communication with O-Chul isn't destroyed, when before that would seem to be a lot more depth than his thoughts would go. I think bumping up an age category explains this best.

Hopefully we'll get some more MitD strips soon now that it looks like the OotS is heading back at Team Evil. Maybe he knows what really happens with vampirism and can play a part in that plotline reveal somehow.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Hopefully we'll get some more MitD strips soon now that it looks like the OotS is heading back at Team Evil. Maybe he knows what really happens with vampirism and can play a part in that plotline reveal somehow.

While I am excited to see O-Chul and MitD again, Word of Giant says he will not know anything about campground.

[thornbush8]

not helpful in the overall scheme, but the beast in question was in London, England a few days ago...
https://www.facebook.com/LondonComic...type=3&theater

:)

[Crusher]

not helpful in the overall scheme, but the beast in question was in London, England a few days ago...
https://www.facebook.com/LondonComic...type=3&theater

:)

I can almost hear him extolling the virtues of loofas and lavender bath gel.

[halfeye]

not helpful in the overall scheme, but the beast in question was in London, England a few days ago...
https://www.facebook.com/LondonComic...type=3&theater

:)

London? Big glowy eyes? tMitD is a Yeti:



<Not seriously, that sort of Yeti is copyright the BBC.>

[renovator]

It's the Librarian

[b_jonas]

At the start of the thread, "Section 3d: Proposed ideas" says

Grendel
Unclear how it accounts for the escape scene, except if it were demon-spawn due to conversion to D&D, which is a very big stretch. Difficulty addressing its strength, defences, earthquake ability.

Now, I agree that this is a very unlikely solution, because it doesn't explain the escape scene. However, the defences in particular are explained completely. We see the MitD attacked twice: Miko attacks him with two swords in 374, and Belkar with two daggers in 477. In the Beowulf epic, it is said in lines 801..805 that it is not possible to hurt Grendel with weapons.

[…] hogy a gaz Grendelt
varázslat védi; nincs oly kemény vas,
nincs kovácsolt kard kerek a földön,
nincs győztes fegyver, mely fogni tudná
förtelmes testét. […]

(Grendel is eventually defeated in a bare-handed fight without weapons.) It's not clear what this would mean in DnD rules exactly, but it would surely protect him from these two attacks (and not from a papercut), so it still matches all we've seen about the MitD's defences.

Further, Grendel has shown that he is strong enough to damage a building and strong furniture:

[…] Vad zajtól zengett a csarnok,
csak csoda őrizte, hogy össze nem dőlt,
s bírt ellenállni a bősz birkózók
tombolásának, bár kívül-bévül
mesteri módon kovácsolt pántok
tették szilárddá. Vad viadaluktól
kidőlt a padlóból az arannyal kivert
sok mézsörpad, melyet mindenki magasztalt.
Dehogyis hitték a dánok bölcsei,
hogy ember ereje e szép, csontdíszű
padokat egykor el tudná törni,
s ravaszul rombolni, hacsak nem lángok
ölelik lobogva. […]

Sure, the horse-shaped hole in the wall is probably an exaggeration, but Grendel would probably have enough strength to damage the tower walls.

In summary, I don't think the MitD could be Grendel or any of his kin, but I think that description is inaccurate, so please edit it so it doesn't say it's difficult to address his defences.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

In summary, I don't think the MitD could be Grendel or any of his kin, but I think that description is inaccurate, so please edit it so it doesn't say it's difficult to address his defences.

I'm afraid that since I can't read... whatever that language is, it doesn't actually constitute a valid argument to assure me that it explains how Grendel!MitD would hit a horse through a wall. As to the first part, I don't quite follow. You say that because she was wrestled to death, she cannot be hurt by weapons?

Grey Wolf

[IthilanorStPete]

I'm afraid that since I can't read... whatever that language is, it doesn't actually constitute a valid argument to assure me that it explains how Grendel!MitD would hit a horse through a wall. As to the first part, I don't quite follow. You say that because she was wrestled to death, she cannot be hurt by weapons?

Grey Wolf

English translation (by Seamus Heaney) might make things clearer:

There was something they could not have known at the time,
That no blade on earth, no blacksmith's art
Could ever damage their demon opponent.
He had conjured the harm from the cutting edge
Of every weapon.

So the poem explicitly says that Grendel can't be harmed by swords or daggers. As for Grendel's strength:

The hall clattered and hammered, but
Survived the onslaught and kept standing:
It was handsomely structured, a sturdy frame
Braced with the best of blacksmith’s work
Inside and out. The story goes
That as the pair struggled, mead benches were smashed
And sprung off the floor, gold fittings and all.
Before then, no Shielding elder would believe
There was any power or person on earth
Capable of wrecking their horn-rigged hall
Unless the burning embrace of fire
Engulf it in flame.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

English translation (by Seamus Heaney) might make things clearer:

OK, thanks, that I can buy. I'll revisit the entry in the next refresh.

So the poem explicitly says that Grendel can't be harmed by swords or daggers. As for Grendel's strength:

OK, maybe I'm missing something, but that said that the hall survived because it was well-constructed. All they managed was to break some gold-inlaid drinking benches. Sure, they thought it would take fire to break them, but a good brawl managed it too. Since presumably those were not stone wall-thick benches, I am not convinced, myself.

Grey Wolf

[Ron Miel]

As to the first part, I don't quite follow. You say that because she was wrestled to death, she cannot be hurt by weapons?

I'm not sure, but I think it's the other way around. She could not be hurt by weapons, so wrestling was the only way to kill her.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I'm not sure, but I think it's the other way around. She could not be hurt by weapons, so wrestling was the only way to kill her.

It seems so, but hopefully you can understand my confusion given that the text was given to me translated into what I assume is Øld Nőnsensicüm ().

GW

[b_jonas]

I'm afraid that since I can't read... whatever that language is, it doesn't actually constitute a valid argument to assure me that it explains how Grendel!MitD would hit a horse through a wall. As to the first part, I don't quite follow. You say that because she was wrestled to death, she cannot be hurt by weapons?

You can find the original Beowulf or likely a translation to whatever language you prefer to read. That's why I gave the line numbers. Here's an English translation (1909) by Francis B. Gummere:

[…]—no keenest blade,
no fairest of falchions fashioned on earth,
could harm or hurt that hideous fiend!
He was safe, by his spells, from sword of battle,
from edge of iron. […]

As for damaging the building, I'm not convinced about that part, so there could be problems with the strength. I'm only sure the defences are enough.

[Zaclock]

The Giant has shown knowledge of the Final Fantasy universe, and FF Tactics has an easter egg character named Beowulf (who can cast magic).

Just saying. I'm not knowledgeable enough of the OotS universe to argue it gives any credibility to the Grendel theory.

[rodneyAnonymous]

The hunters called it "one of these", I doubt it is anything unique .

[Emanick]

The hunters called it "one of these", I doubt it is anything unique .

Grendel wasn't technically unique. He had a mother, after all, and he was "one of the descendants of Cain."

I don't think the Grendel idea is plausible, of course. Just pointing out that the "one of these" line shouldn't by itself disqualify the idea.