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  1. - Top - End - #91
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    Swordguy's Avatar

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    Default Re: Can any spell hurt it?

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeejimbo View Post
    I'd complain about killing catgirls, but they're dead already. You killed them with your 685 quadrillion damage.

    Anyway, you win, as far as I'm concerned.
    Um...looking back over that, I kinda messed up. That isn't the right damage. in fact, it isn't even close.

    I forgot to convert Kilograms into Grams. Therefore, tack on another 3 zeros to the end of the damage results.

    My bad.

    (Not bad physics for a Theatre Major, though, eh?)

    EDIT: And I think I'll sig that to commenmerate my accomplishment.
    Last edited by Swordguy; 2007-02-13 at 02:00 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dervag
    Quote Originally Posted by kpenguin
    Thus, knowing none of us are Sun Tzu or Napoleon or Julius Caesar...
    No, but Swordguy appears to have studied people who are. And took notes.
    "I'd complain about killing catgirls, but they're dead already. You killed them with your 685 quadrillion damage." - Mikeejimbo, in reference to this

  2. - Top - End - #92
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    Default Re: Can any spell hurt it?

    maybe my home brew spell, RFED...

    or maybe not, as its a joke :P

    but call pun pun.

  3. - Top - End - #93
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    Default Re: Can any spell hurt it?

    Gotta join on the call for Avicenex to post the full stats of this monster. Because it really does seem like people are posting solutions and then it's revealed that this won't work because of high HD or regeneration or something. Please, just lay the whole thing on the table and let the planning commence.

    My personal thought is, indeed, go crazy with the sonic orbs +metamagic. We've been told that the caster fighting it is CL 50. This means you could stack up a sickening number of PRCs. Like Ramza said, look at things like Incantatrix, Halruuan Elder, Archmage, etc. There might be some interesting things to do with Shadowcraft Mage.

    A level 50 build gets access to (at minimum) 10 epic feats. Since epic spellcasting is out, that'll save us some. You can do a lot with that.

    Edit: @Yakk: that won't work as well as you think. Note that it's not only a weight limitation, but also 1 object per caster level, maximum 15. So you could only throw 15 bolts.
    Last edited by SpiderBrigade; 2007-02-13 at 02:07 PM.
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  4. - Top - End - #94
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Can any spell hurt it?

    Would an Archmage's Arcane Fire work on it? That is described as a ray, but it isn't a ray SPELL, it's a ray supernatural ability - which is of untyped damage, and doesn't allow SR. Even your 0-level spells would hit it for 5d6 damage at max Archmage level, no save or SR. Your 9th level ones would be 14d6 unresistable damage.

  5. - Top - End - #95
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    Default Re: Can any spell hurt it?

    Maybe an infinite damage loop with forced share pain?

  6. - Top - End - #96
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    Default Re: Can any spell hurt it?

    Major Creation is an excellent strategy, if you have 10 minutes to cast it.
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  7. - Top - End - #97
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    Default Re: Can any spell hurt it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jade_Tarem View Post
    Major Creation is an excellent strategy, if you have 10 minutes to cast it.
    The OP didn't say anything in his OP about time limitations, just if there was "any spell that could damage it". *shrug* Isn't there an epic feat somewhere that would allow to to speed up that time? If not, go invisible while casting it. You won't go visible again until it spell goes off. Or go Greater Invisibility. It doesn't have Scent, or Blind-fight, or anything of a sensory nature. heck, if you're paranoid about it, Silent Spell the Major Creation and go invisible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dervag
    Quote Originally Posted by kpenguin
    Thus, knowing none of us are Sun Tzu or Napoleon or Julius Caesar...
    No, but Swordguy appears to have studied people who are. And took notes.
    "I'd complain about killing catgirls, but they're dead already. You killed them with your 685 quadrillion damage." - Mikeejimbo, in reference to this

  8. - Top - End - #98
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    Default Re: Can any spell hurt it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordguy View Post
    It doesn't have Scent, or Blind-fight, or anything of a sensory nature.
    ...that we know of.

    Avicenex, please post the full stats.
    "'To know, to do, and to keep silent.' Crowley had the first two down pat."

  9. - Top - End - #99
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    Default Re: Can any spell hurt it?

    Quote Originally Posted by SpiderBrigade View Post
    ...that we know of.

    Avicenex, please post the full stats.
    Well, we can only draw conclusions based on the information we have.

    I agree, BTW. Post the stats.

    *thumps mug on table, er...can of Mtn Dew on desk thus drawing stares from around the office*

    Stats! Stats! Stats! Stats! Stats! Stats! Stats!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dervag
    Quote Originally Posted by kpenguin
    Thus, knowing none of us are Sun Tzu or Napoleon or Julius Caesar...
    No, but Swordguy appears to have studied people who are. And took notes.
    "I'd complain about killing catgirls, but they're dead already. You killed them with your 685 quadrillion damage." - Mikeejimbo, in reference to this

  10. - Top - End - #100
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    Default Re: Can any spell hurt it?

    Hehehe
    Right now we know it is a Half-Dragon Spellwarped Pseudonatural Monster of Legend Tarrasque with extra HD.

    The thing that's bugging me right now is the spell resistance 385. Tarrasque has SR 32, and 48 HD. Pseudonatural template adds SR of HDx2, max 25. Monster of Legend can give SR 10+1/2 HD. Finally Spellwarped gives SR 11+HD. At base HD, assuming these all stack, which they do not, it has SR of only 150. To get the full 385, you'd have to add 157 HD. If you don't break the rules by allowing stacking, it'd have to have...let's see...374 HD, or almost 8 times as many as the original Tarrasque.

    Now, according to the rules for monster advancement, this beast should be CR 80 if you cheat and let the Spell Resistance stack, or a whopping CR 137 if you don't.

    This is why it would help to see the full stats, because as it is, it looks like the only way you can get the listed abilities at the given CR is by bending/breaking the monster rules.

    Edit: I suppose it's possible for the beast to have taken the Improved Spell Resistance feat multiple times. That could drop it down to 196 extra HD, or CR 94.
    Last edited by SpiderBrigade; 2007-02-13 at 03:14 PM.
    "'To know, to do, and to keep silent.' Crowley had the first two down pat."

  11. - Top - End - #101
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    Default Re: Can any spell hurt it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jade_Tarem View Post
    The only thing I've seen that had anything to do with the rule was on page 172 of the PHB:
    This is because you did not take the time to actually read the dimension door spell.


    If you arrive in a place that is already occupied by a solid body, you and each creature traveling with you take 1d6 points of damage and are shunted to a random open space on a suitable surface within 100 feet of the intended location.
    If there is no free space within 100 feet, you and each creature traveling with you take an additional 2d6 points of damage and are shunted to a free space within 1,000 feet. If there is no free space within 1,000 feet, you and each creature travelling with you take an additional 4d6 points of damage and the spell simply fails.

    The warlock's invocations are not spells in any way. I think they qualify as eldrich abilities, which is typically a whole new barrel of monkeys. The thing that makes it argumentative is the description of the warlock's teleporty move and whether or not it follows the same rules anyway. If you have another source on it I'd be glad to hear it.

    This is wrong too, the warlock's invocations are spell like abilities which it says specifically in the class description, meaning they function just like a spell unless otherwise specified.
    Last edited by oriong; 2007-02-13 at 02:59 PM.
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  12. - Top - End - #102
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    Default Re: Can any spell hurt it?

    Here's a way: Cloud of Knives + Smiting Spelled Overwhelm.

  13. - Top - End - #103
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    Default Re: Can any spell hurt it?

    Just thought of something: Sonic Orb will still hurt it since it is not a targeted spell, so it won't be reflected back.
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  14. - Top - End - #104
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    Default Re: Can any spell hurt it?

    That would work, Fax, and is a nice combo, except the thing is immune to Mind-Affecting, which Overwhelm is. It also allows for SR, which this thing has too much of.

    Edit: Oh, and Avicenex: post the stats
    Last edited by SpiderBrigade; 2007-02-13 at 03:38 PM.
    "'To know, to do, and to keep silent.' Crowley had the first two down pat."

  15. - Top - End - #105
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    Default Re: Can any spell hurt it?

    Ok fine you want non cheese well how about a epic druid just polymorph into one and then beat it to death with its own invicibility or am i missing something after all if it cant kill itself it cant kill you and you have yourself a stail mate
    Check out my horrible homebrews

  16. - Top - End - #106
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    Default Re: Can any spell hurt it?

    Quote Originally Posted by lankybugger View Post
    And the CR of 45 is laughable. I don't care what calculations you used to generate them. They're wrong.
    All I did was add templates and hit dice. That's it. By RAW, it's perfectly legitimate. And honestly, with all the stuff epic casters can do, it's not even close to unbeatable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Karsh View Post
    I'll go ahead and say it... the SR probably makes this thing well above CR 45. It's impossible for GODS to get SR that high. Ao doesn't have SR that high. Nobody does.
    Wrong. I'll show you why in a sec...

    Quote Originally Posted by douglas View Post
    Let's see, rays, lines, cones, and magic missiles are reflected. The orb spells are not in any of these categories, so that part isn't a problem.

    Permanent Spell Turning has this little caveat: "Effect and area spells are not affected." The orb spells are effect spells, as evidenced by the line "Effect: one orb of _____" in each one's stat block. This defense is therefore bypassed.

    SR is negated by the very simple "Spell Resistance: No" line for each orb spell.

    All that's left are the high saves and energy resistances, and the saves only halve the damage, there's an orb for each energy type, and it doesn't have resistance to all of them.

    The Orb spells work, though you would need a fair bit of metamagic to bring the damage up high enough to be worthwhile at that level.
    I guess I've been reading the orb spells wrong. In that case, it's quite simple to stack up a bunch of sonic orbs and overwhelm it with an ungodly amount of spells per round (thanks to Multispell, Automatic Quicken, and Time Stop).

    Quote Originally Posted by daggaz View Post
    I would like to see the actual stats for this particular monster build. As several people have pointed out, it probably breaks all kinds of rules for monster advancement and abilities.
    Quote Originally Posted by SpiderBrigade View Post
    Gotta join on the call for Avicenex to post the full stats of this monster.
    Alright, I'll post it. Also, I should point out that there are TWO Psuedonatural templates. ONE of them is the pansy one found in Complete Arcane and a few other books. The other (the one I applied) is from the EPIC book, and is far better. Read it: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monst...turalTroll.htm

    The stats of the monster can be found here:
    http://www.thetangledweb.net/profiler/view.php?id=1297

    Besides the orb spells, I found a nice friendly spell called "Obedient Avalanche" which can do a nice load of damage (just change cold to sonic). Maximized with rods and with a few Pearls of Power (lvl 9) Mr. Monster can be easily taken out.

    I think the topics been settled then...

    EDIT: Forgot to address this. Look closely at the epic psuedonatural template and you'll notice that its spell resistance is equal to its HD (77) x 5. That's on SRD and in the origonal epic handbook text.
    Last edited by Avicenex; 2007-02-13 at 03:57 PM.

  17. - Top - End - #107
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    Default Re: Can any spell hurt it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordguy View Post
    Um...looking back over that, I kinda messed up. That isn't the right damage. in fact, it isn't even close.

    I forgot to convert Kilograms into Grams. Therefore, tack on another 3 zeros to the end of the damage results.

    My bad.

    (Not bad physics for a Theatre Major, though, eh?)

    EDIT: And I think I'll sig that to commenmerate my accomplishment.
    So, that just makes it quintillion instead of quadrillion damage. It hardly matters, dead's dead.
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  18. - Top - End - #108
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    Default Re: Can any spell hurt it?

    Quote Originally Posted by SpiderBrigade View Post
    That would work, Fax, and is a nice combo, except the thing is immune to Mind-Affecting, which Overwhelm is. It also allows for SR, which this thing has too much of.

    Edit: Oh, and Avicenex: post the stats
    Alright, then forget the Cloud of Knives and go Black Blade of Disaster.

  19. - Top - End - #109
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    Default Re: Can any spell hurt it?

    This looks like a job for a warlock to me.

    One vitrolic blast, coming up, well, if you concider it a spell I suppose. Its a spell-like ability. and ignores SR.
    Last edited by Santanya; 2007-02-13 at 04:23 PM.
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  20. - Top - End - #110
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    Default Re: Can any spell hurt it?

    Can anyone with the Epic Level Handbook verify the Psuedonatural template? Specifically, if there are any extra conditions (fluffy or otherwise) not mentioned in the SRD? Because if not... Daaaaaamn.

    If that's a fully accurate representation of the Psuedonatural template (and if the Psuedonatural template in Complete Arcane isn't errata for this one), I think it might take the trophy for most broken template ever based on it's SR increase alone.
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  21. - Top - End - #111
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    Default Re: Can any spell hurt it?

    The Pseudonatural template is very nasty (it is not the same as the one from complete arcane by the way).

    The template is at the bottom of the pseudonatural troll entry http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monst...turalTroll.htm

    The real purpose of the Pseudonatural template seems to be making non-epic monsters into epic-level challenges, so it becomes broken quite quickly if put on anything that is Epic or Near Epic.
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  22. - Top - End - #112
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    Default Re: Can any spell hurt it?

    Quote Originally Posted by lankybugger View Post
    Can anyone with the Epic Level Handbook verify the Psuedonatural template? Specifically, if there are any extra conditions (fluffy or otherwise) not mentioned in the SRD? Because if not... Daaaaaamn.

    If that's a fully accurate representation of the Psuedonatural template (and if the Psuedonatural template in Complete Arcane isn't errata for this one), I think it might take the trophy for most broken template ever based on it's SR increase alone.
    Merry Christmas

    Also, I believe that Pseudonatural creatures come from the Far Realms of Madness, so it's understandable if they're a touch more resilient than your average monster.
    Last edited by Mewtarthio; 2007-02-13 at 04:19 PM.
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    Mewtarthio, you have scared my brain into hiding, a trembling, broken shadow of a thing, cowering somewhere in the soothing darkness and singing nursery rhymes in the hope of obscuring the Lovecraftian facts you so boldly brought into daylight.

  23. - Top - End - #113
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    Default Re: Can any spell hurt it?

    Quote Originally Posted by lankybugger View Post
    Can anyone with the Epic Level Handbook verify the Psuedonatural template? Specifically, if there are any extra conditions (fluffy or otherwise) not mentioned in the SRD? Because if not... Daaaaaamn.

    If that's a fully accurate representation of the Psuedonatural template (and if the Psuedonatural template in Complete Arcane isn't errata for this one), I think it might take the trophy for most broken template ever based on it's SR increase alone.
    Yes, the SRD is correct. Trust me, I immediately cracked open my copy of the ELHB and double-checked.

    SR=x5 HD.

    The only thing I can't recall is if that's the creature's BASE HDx5 or the creature's total HD (adding in the other templates). The Tarresque has 48 HD. Which gives it SR 240. Nevermind - still broken.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dervag
    Quote Originally Posted by kpenguin
    Thus, knowing none of us are Sun Tzu or Napoleon or Julius Caesar...
    No, but Swordguy appears to have studied people who are. And took notes.
    "I'd complain about killing catgirls, but they're dead already. You killed them with your 685 quadrillion damage." - Mikeejimbo, in reference to this

  24. - Top - End - #114
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    Default Re: Can any spell hurt it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Santanya View Post
    This looks like a job for a warlock to me.

    One vitrolic blast, coming up, well, if you concider it a spell I suppose. Its a spell-like ability. and ignores SR.
    That works really well if you ignore the rules. Unfortunatly...

    Spell Resistance

    ... Only spells and spell-like abilities are subject to spell resistance.
    Spell-like abilities can't bypass spell resistance. Sorry.

  25. - Top - End - #115
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Can any spell hurt it?

    T'is killable, by the power of epic cheese!

    Or sonic orb 0.o.

    Screw it, here we go. Intensified admixtured empowered quickened enhanced arcane thesised, twinned, repeated, enervating, enlarged, energy substitution (sonic) fire orb.

    Insert appropriate metamagic reducers here. That's 600 sonic damage per hit, a mere 6 hits takes it out. 14 touch AC, it's screwed. Over. (Whoops, can't combine empower and intensify. Damn. So 400) (x1.5 for enervating, so 600 again! also, energy substitution, for 1d6 instead of 1d4, so 900!)


    And celerity. Never forget celerity.

    I win initiative (celerity), blast it, (multispell x10) 10 (x2, twinned, x2 again, repeat spell) times, it takes 36000 damage, assiming I roll no natural 1's. Next

    If it's not dead, I (quickened) dimension door 600 ft away from it, and do the same next turn. I can use at least 40 of those orbs. Wish to finish.

    EDIT: Multispell x 10, + intensify, and enhance, improved metamagic x6, 18 of my 19 epic feats, empower, maximize, quicken, arcane thesis, energy admixture energy substitution twin spell repeat spell enervate spell, enlarge spell, 10 of the at least 11 feats.

    And note on telekenesis it says you can throw as many objects as caster levels, max 15.

    Oh yeah, twinned. So I can get rid of some of the multispells.
    Last edited by Arbitrarity; 2007-02-13 at 08:47 PM.

  26. - Top - End - #116
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    Default Re: Can any spell hurt it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Avicenex View Post
    That works really well if you ignore the rules. Unfortunatly...

    Spell-like abilities can't bypass spell resistance. Sorry.
    Ignore what rules? Vitriolic blast doesn't allow SR.
    Man this thing was full of outdated stuff.
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  27. - Top - End - #117
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    Default Re: Can any spell hurt it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Avicenex View Post
    That works really well if you ignore the rules. Unfortunatly...

    Spell-like abilities can't bypass spell resistance. Sorry.
    As a normal rule for most spell like abilities you are correct. Vitriolic blast is an exception though and it says specifically in the description of the essence. (It is similar to Acid Arrow, is a conjuration effect that then does acid damage)

    Seriously what is the stats for the monster?
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  28. - Top - End - #118
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    Default Re: Can any spell hurt it?

    A sufficiently high-level Shadowcaster using low-level Supernatural abilities avoids SR.

    EDIT: And has infinite fundamentals. So theoretically could Arrow of Fatigue the target into oblivion.
    Last edited by Fax Celestis; 2007-02-13 at 04:43 PM.

  29. - Top - End - #119
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    Default Re: Can any spell hurt it?

    Unfortunately Vitrolic Blast's damage will have a hell of a time penetrating Acid Resistance 105, and the beast's Regeneration.

    You'd have to use something like Eldritch Doom but a level 45 warlock with Empower and Maximize on his blast should be able to wear the critter down.
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  30. - Top - End - #120
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    Default Re: Can any spell hurt it?

    couldn't you just make a platform held by immovable rods or walls of force, and then create a few million tons of walls of iron on it? Then either dispell the wall of force or remove the immovable rods and smash the thing? (while at the same time causing a massive amount of inflation in the iron market).

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