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  1. - Top - End - #571
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A for Pathfinder 3: Find With a Vengeance

    A260 correction?
    I suspect he means:

    Destined Strike (Su)
    At 1st level, as a free action up to three times per day you can grant yourself an insight bonus equal to 1/2 your bloodrager level (minimum 1) on one melee attack. At 12th level, you can use this ability up to five times per day.
    Not
    Certain Strike (Su)
    At 8th level, you may reroll an attack roll once during a bloodrage. You must decide to use this ability after the die is rolled, but before the GM reveals the results. You must take the second result, even if it's worse.
    And destined strike lacks any mention of when you can apply this bonus. Normally abilities like this work with declaring before the attack roll is made, or after the roll but before the DM declares whether it hits or miss. No rules though, so ask your DM.
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  2. - Top - End - #572
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A for Pathfinder 3: Find With a Vengeance

    Q261 Regarding Q260, I'm talking about the level-1 ability to give a bonus, not the level-8 ability that grants a reroll.
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  3. - Top - End - #573
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A for Pathfinder 3: Find With a Vengeance

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    A259:I assume, however, from your previous question and your ongoing thread that you will be using your poison with Claw Blades. The good news is that CBs should protect you from contact poison as well. They effectively turn your claws into manufactured weapons, thus you should be able to smear contact poison on them without risk. (Basically, they are metal tips that fit over your regular claws and therefore, applying poison to them should prevent you from being exposed to it.)
    Q 262 A catfolk in my party got these and then was informed by the DM later that she lost her extra claw attack during a full attack because now she was using a weapon. Is that the case? That's a huge trade-off as they don't do much damage as a single attack. He ended up letting her retcon out of getting them because she didn't know this beforehand. None of us did.
    Last edited by Dalebert; 2014-08-28 at 08:12 AM.
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  4. - Top - End - #574
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A for Pathfinder 3: Find With a Vengeance

    Oh, I see - I thought he said "roll."

    If you've already made the attack I don't see how you can then grant a bonus to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalebert View Post
    Q 262 A catfolk in my party got these and then was informed by the DM later that she lost her extra claw attack during a full attack because now she was using a weapon. Is that the case? That's a huge trade-off. He ended up letting her retcon out of getting them because she didn't know this beforehand. None of us did.
    A261: Could you clarify what you mean by "extra claw attack?" Whether you have two, one or none of the claw blades you will be getting two claw attacks.
    Last edited by Psyren; 2014-08-28 at 08:12 AM.
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  5. - Top - End - #575
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    A 262 Yes. If you have natural attacks in the form of claws (or slams, or anything else that's basically your hand) then you cannot use these when you're also attacking with a weapon in that same hand. However, assuming it's a one-handed weapon you can still attack with the other claw.
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  6. - Top - End - #576
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    A262 clarification: While they do replace the claw they are on, your number of attacks won't change. Either you will have two claw attacks (natural), one manufactured claw and one natural claw, or two claws (manufactured). Either way you are getting two attacks on a full-attack.

    It's best to go all or nothing if you use these though.
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  7. - Top - End - #577
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    A/Q262 B
    Wait, doesn't having two claw blades cause TWF penalties (unlike normal natural attacks)? Or does the claw blade avoid that because it's an augment of a natural attack?

    Still doesn't loose an attack though, but a -2 penalty might suck.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yanisa View Post
    A/Q262 B
    Wait, doesn't having two claw blades cause TWF penalties (unlike normal natural attacks)? Or does the claw blade avoid that because it's an augment of a natural attack?

    Still doesn't loose an attack though, but a -2 penalty might suck.
    I would say yes, they would take TWF penalties now that they are manufactured attacks. But the upside to that, is that you can take the full TWF line and get more than two claw attacks when you pounce.
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A for Pathfinder 3: Find With a Vengeance

    Quote Originally Posted by Yanisa View Post
    A/Q262 B
    Wait, doesn't having two claw blades cause TWF penalties (unlike normal natural attacks)? Or does the claw blade avoid that because it's an augment of a natural attack?

    Still doesn't loose an attack though, but a -2 penalty might suck.
    Maybe that was it but I thought the idea was she was losing one of her two attacks. She has this alternate racial trait:

    Cat's Claws Some catfolk have stronger and more developed claws than other members of their race, and can use them to make attacks. catfolk with this racial trait have a pair of claws they can use as natural weapons. These claws are primary attacks that deal 1d4 points of damage. This racial trait replaces natural hunter.
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  10. - Top - End - #580
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalebert View Post
    Maybe that was it but I thought the idea was she was losing one of her two attacks. She has this alternate racial trait:
    A262 Part 6; The Claw Strikes Again
    A Claw Blade is no different then any other manufactured weapon from a rules perspective. And you can, for example, combine a short sword in one hand with a natural claw attack in the other hand. Same goes for a Claw Blade and an natural attack.

    Also see Natural Attacks:
    Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their available natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack’s original type.
    Gaining two claw attacks implies that both your arm limbs (plural) have a claw (and thus a claw attack). By using a Claw Blade, you use one limb (not two) to wield one weapon. Your second claw is free to strike.

    Edit: That's a Claw Blade, not a Cat Claw. Confusing names.
    Last edited by Yanisa; 2014-08-28 at 11:41 AM.
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  11. - Top - End - #581
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    A26enough with the dangin' claws already! : To reiterate and elaborate on what I stated in #576, the bottom line is that you will have two attacks.

    - If both are claws, they will both be primary attacks (no penalty: +0/+0.)
    - If one is a claw blade and one is a claw, the one that is still a claw becomes secondary and therefore gets -5. You are ineligible for Multiattack, so it will stay there. (+0/-5).
    - If both are claw blades, you will be at -4/-8 (two light weapons), and this can be reduced to -2/-2 if you pick up TWF. You will start with two attacks as above, and now also gain more attacks from iteratives as you level. Furthermore, you can also pick up ITWF and GTWF to get even more attacks on top of that. Your claws are no longer considered natural attacks.

    Ergo, your best options are to get two claw blades or none.
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A for Pathfinder 3: Find With a Vengeance

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    A256: No - none of those effects are compulsions. A necromancer's control of undead is different.
    Contention: Animate Dead, I agree, but how is Command Undead (the feat or the spell) not a compulsion effect? The feat actually uses the word "enslave". From the spell: "This spell allows you a degree of control over an undead creature."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalebert View Post
    Contention: Animate Dead, I agree, but how is Command Undead (the feat or the spell) not a compulsion effect? The feat actually uses the word "enslave". From the spell: "This spell allows you a degree of control over an undead creature."
    Clarification: Okay, I read the text for the feat and spell again, and noticed a point of difference. Protection from Evil's Second Effect states that the controlled creature immediately receives a saving throw only if one was allowed in the first place. Command Undead (Spell) does not allow for a saving throw from mindless undead, but does for intelligent undead. Command Undead (Feat) allows for a saving throw from both.

    So, going by the presence or absence of saving throws, a necromancer does not lose control over undead created by Animate Dead and mindless undead controlled by Command Undead (Spell), but loses control over all intelligent undead and any mindless undead controlled through the Command Undead feat.

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    Default Re: Simple Q&A for Pathfinder 3: Find With a Vengeance

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    A256: No - none of those effects are compulsions. A necromancer's control of undead is different.
    Contention: Protection From Evil protects its target against any forms of mental control, including [charm] and [compulsion].

    Quote Originally Posted by The spell description
    Second, the subject immediately receives another saving throw (if one was allowed to begin with) against any spells or effects that possess or exercise mental control over the creature (including enchantment [charm] effects and enchantment [compulsion] effects, such as charm person, command, and dominate person). This saving throw is made with a +2 morale bonus, using the same DC as the original effect. If successful, such effects are suppressed for the duration of this spell. The effects resume when the duration of this spell expires. While under the effects of this spell, the target is immune to any new attempts to possess or exercise mental control over the target. This spell does not expel a controlling life force (such as a ghost or spellcaster using magic jar), but it does prevent them from controlling the target. This second effect only functions against spells and effects created by evil creatures or objects, subject to GM discretion.
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    It's not (compulsion) simply because "compulsion" is an Enchantment subschool - that's all there is to it by RAW.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raven777 View Post
    Contention: Protection From Evil protects its target against any forms of mental control, including [charm] and [compulsion].
    A256 rebuttal: Necromancy spells cannot be considered "mental control" because undead are immune to mind-affecting effects. Furthermore, most undead controlling spells (like Command Undead and Control Undead) even specify that your commands must be verbal.
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A for Pathfinder 3: Find With a Vengeance

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    A256 rebuttal: Necromancy spells cannot be considered "mental control" because undead are immune to mind-affecting effects. Furthermore, most undead controlling spells (like Command Undead and Control Undead) even specify that your commands must be verbal.
    Generally, yes, but there are exceptions. Specific overrules general. These spells are affecting an undead creature's mind (unless they're mindless) because they're specifically designed to affect undead. Another exception is the feat Threnodic Spell. A vampire, for instance, could presumably cast protection from good to temporarily avoid those effects. And that it requires verbal commands doesn't mean anything. So do Suggestion and Command which are specifically "(compulsion)" spells and so does Charm Person which is affected by PfE even though it's not specifically listed as a "(compulsion)" because it fits the description of types of spells affected. Charm Person is even specifically given as an example in the FAQ.
    Last edited by Dalebert; 2014-08-29 at 08:04 AM.
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A for Pathfinder 3: Find With a Vengeance

    A256 rebuttal rebuttal: Also, the effect includes [charm] and [compulsion]. It is not limited to them, it merely includes them. The spell effect encompasses any forms of possession or mental control. Cannot argue with the wording on this one, sorry.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalebert View Post
    Generally, yes, but there are exceptions. Specific overrules general. These spells are affecting an undead creature's mind (unless they're mindless) because they're specifically designed to affect undead. Another exception is the feat Threnodic Spell. A vampire, for instance, could presumably cast protection from good to temporarily avoid those effects. And that it requires verbal commands doesn't mean anything. So do Suggestion and Command which are specifically "(compulsion)" spells and so does Charm Person which is affected by PfE even though it's not specifically listed as a "(compulsion)" because it fits the description of types of spells affected. Charm Person is even specifically given as an example in the FAQ.
    I have no problem with Threnodic Charm X or Threnodic Dominate X being blocked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raven777 View Post
    A256 rebuttal rebuttal: Also, the effect includes [charm] and [compulsion]. It is not limited to them, it merely includes them. The spell effect encompasses any forms of possession or mental control. Cannot argue with the wording on this one, sorry.
    I get that it's not limited to the subschools. But I don't think it extends to necromancy spells either for the reasons I stated above.
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A for Pathfinder 3: Find With a Vengeance

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    I get that it's not limited to the subschools. But I don't think it extends to necromancy spells either for the reasons I stated above.
    Yeah, I'll agree that your reasons make sense from the angle you're coming at them. Once we're actually dealing more with the nuances of the English language and how broad some wording gets than with the mechanics themselves, it probably starts falling under the DM's purview to make the final call.

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    Q 263

    Does the effect of Spell Specialization apply to Dispel Magic? The text of the feat says that it adds +2 to CL "for all level-variable effects of the spell." Is the dispel check a "level-variable effect"? Or is it simply a means for attaining a binary effect (works/doesn't work) which you can affect the chances of?

    EDIT: Same question for Gifted Adept, which has the slightly different language that when you cast the spell "its effects manifest at +1 caster level." What counts as an effect when we're talking about Dispel Magic?
    Last edited by Da'Shain; 2014-08-29 at 06:31 PM.

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    Default Re: Simple Q&A for Pathfinder 3: Find With a Vengeance

    A 263

    Yes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Caster Level
    In the event that a class feature or other special ability provides an adjustment to your caster level, that adjustment applies not only to effects based on caster level (such as range, duration, and damage dealt), but also to your caster level check to overcome your target's spell resistance and to the caster level used in dispel checks (both the dispel check and the DC of the check).
    Last edited by Segrain; 2014-08-29 at 06:47 PM.

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    Q264

    Hello. I am summoner. And can i cast summon monster 1 (monster for 2 rounds) and at next turn use it 1 more time and have 2 monsters from summon monster at the same time ?
    May i summon monster using summon monster 1, next turn summon monster 2 and have it at the same time ?

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    A264: That depends on how you are casting it. If you are using the summon monster spell that is on the Summoner's spell list, and your caster level is high enough for it to last more than one round, then the answer is yes - you can cast a second summoning spell while the first one is active, and they will both exist at the same time.

    However, if you are using the Summoner's "summon monster" spell-like ability class feature, then the answer is no - you can only have one of those abilities active at a time, unless you are using the Master Summoner archetype for the Summoner class, which lets you break that rule.

    Hopefully that makes sense.
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    Q265. I can have few "summon monster spell" From spell list. And only one "summon monster spell" spell like ability. But can i use "summon monster spell" from spell list and spell like ability at the same time ?

    Q266. When i have eidolon, i cant use "summon monster spell". If i will use it, eidolon will disappear. And this is for both, "summon monster spell" from spell list and spell like ability ?
    Last edited by boriss283; 2014-08-30 at 02:08 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by boriss283 View Post
    Q265. I can have few "summon monster spell" From spell list. And only one "summon monster spell" spell like ability. But can i use "summon monster spell" from spell list and spell like ability at the same time ?
    A265: Yes, there are no restrictions on the spell except for your remaining spells per day. So you can have only one "summon monster spell like ability," but as many "summon monster spells" as you are able to cast (and there is open room for.)

    A266: The eidolon restriction only applies to the spell like ability. As above, there are no restrictions on the spell except for your spells per day. (Note that most summoners do not take the summon monster spell since the spell like ability is usually all you need.)
    Last edited by Psyren; 2014-08-30 at 02:10 PM.
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A for Pathfinder 3: Find With a Vengeance

    Q267 If a critter with 0' reach wields a reach weapon, do they gain 5' reach? any reach? does it not affect them?

    A player's interested in playing a tiny or smaller custom race, and I don't know how that'd function.
    Quote Originally Posted by Telonius View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perturbulent View Post
    Q267 If a critter with 0' reach wields a reach weapon, do they gain 5' reach? any reach? does it not affect them?

    A player's interested in playing a tiny or smaller custom race, and I don't know how that'd function.
    A267: Strict RAW is unclear - however, other tiny creatures with reach weapons like the Twigjack do go from 0 to 5, so that is what I would do.

    In addition, JJ has said the intent is for creatures with 0ft. reach + reach weapon to go up to 5ft. reach.

    Thus this is the most likely developer intent and the way I would rule it.
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A for Pathfinder 3: Find With a Vengeance

    Q268
    What is the CR of an encounter with 4 Pugwampi clerics (CR 5 each), each controlling 1 Bloody Skeleton Dire Bear (CR 6 each) and 10 Burning Skeleton humans (CR 1/2 each) in an area with a Desecrate spell on an altar (doesn't affect cr?)?

    Essentially, is it CR 9 because the clerics' minions are considered part of their CR, or 12 because the creatures should be counted separately?

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    Default Re: Simple Q&A for Pathfinder 3: Find With a Vengeance

    Q 269

    This one is reaching and I don't think it works, but I want to make sure if there's a specific rule about it. The feat Destructive Dispel requires the "ability to cast dispel magic or greater dispel magic, caster level 11th." Say you were using tricks to permanently optimize your CL with dispel magic, like my last question asked (Spell Specialization, Mage's Tattoo, Gifted Adept); if you have a total of +4 to effective CL with dispel magic, and your normal CL is 7, technically your CL with dispel magic is 11. Do you qualify for this feat? Or does the feat require that your CL for everything is 11?

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    Default Re: Simple Q&A for Pathfinder 3: Find With a Vengeance

    A268: As you're about to see, calculating CR involves several subjective elements - thus there is no true "RAW" answer to your questions.

    1) Minions and CR: there is no clear ruling on whether minions, like animated dead or summons, are part of the CR of their creators or contribute separately. In fact, by strict RAW the main consideration is the number of foes, which would mean an increase in CR. For this specific scenario I would say they should be counted, because they are not summoned during combat nor are they easily removed through dispel or dismissal the way a summon would be.

    2) Desecrate: I'm unclear as to why you think this would not count. A desecrate, especially with an evil altar to double its bonuses, would almost certainly count as "unfavorable terrain" for the PCs and therefore increase the CR.

    Anyway, with that stuff aside - calculating CR in PF is fairly simple; just add up the XP for all the monsters and hazards and look up the total on the CR table in the CRB. So you would start with:

    4 Pugwampi Clerics = CR 5 each = 1600 * 4 = 6400.
    4 Bloody Skeleton Dire Bears = CR 6 each = 2400 * 4 = 9600.
    12 Burning Skeleton Humans = CR 1/2 each (personally I'm leaning towards CR 1 for each of these, but anyway) = 12*200 = 2400.

    Total so far = 18,400, which translates to roughly CR 12 if rounded up, the number you calculated.

    Then we get to the Desecrate. As I said above, I disagree with you and think that it should factor in as favorable terrain for the enemies. Thus the CR is boosted 1 further, to 13.
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