Things You Never Noticed IV: There's A Comic in the Sidebar?

[White Blade]

Just because the den existed doesn't mean that he was telling the truth.

No, it does not. But "look, all I really want is to get to my den, right behind you" is a strong indicator. We never get to hear what "it was all a-" would have finished with.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

No, it does not. But "look, all I really want is to get to my den, right behind you" is a strong indicator. We never get to hear what "it was all a-" would have finished with.

Eh, personally, I think he was lying to try and save his own skin. You are allowed to take your own interpretation.

[Darth Paul]

On balance, if Pete was looking to get to his den so he could get his weapons and help Haley & Belkar, then odds are he would never have sold them out in the first place. He was "Brainy" enough to know that switching sides again would earn him a nasty retribution from Bozzok and the Guild, who after all were in complete control of the house as far as he knew. His best bet all along would have been to honestly help Haley, then try to get her to take him out of town with her so he could get a Regeneration in Cliffport or some other town beyond Guild control.

Pete's problem is (heh, was) that he wanted to stay in Greysky, most likely because he had been unsuccessful at escaping before and now was too indimidated to try it again. I think he honestly just wanted to sit down in his den and have a drink, maybe look at his trophy case, and reflect on why no-one had told him he was wearing orange with purple all this time. The man really had no friends.

EDIT: And I'm betting his last word was going to be: "- mistake!!"

[White Blade]

I'm surprised people are all down with the, "I want to read a book" line. I find it unpersuasive. Pete knows Haley well enough to know she'll want to kill Bozzok, because he's a prick, and she's Ian's daughter (he's an old-timer). Haley and her allies (+Loki cleric) are competent enough to kill the whole guild.

He forces a confrontation, gets his eyes back, comes in for a stunning last minute rescue with his bow, buys his way back into everybody's good graces before they know it is his fault, and everybody wins. Hell, Haley beat the whole guild without his help, no reason to think the pair of them wouldn't have shredded the whole guild.

Am I overthinking this? Maybe. It also makes that scene... really, really horrible. But murdering a childhood friend is pretty horrible.

[Kish]

I'm surprised people are all down with the, "I want to read a book" line. I find it unpersuasive.[...]

I'm surprised you're reading so much into Pete having a weapons collection and that you're so ready to believe someone as slimy as Pete had already demonstrated himself to be was planning to cross the people who, as far as he could tell, had all the power in the situation to save people who would be lucky to survive even with his help at that point from a problem he created, so there we are.

[Darth Paul]

I'm surprised people are all down with the, "I want to read a book" line. I find it unpersuasive. Pete knows Haley well enough to know she'll want to kill Bozzok, because he's a prick, and she's Ian's daughter (he's an old-timer). Haley and her allies (+Loki cleric) are competent enough to kill the whole guild.

He forces a confrontation, gets his eyes back, comes in for a stunning last minute rescue with his bow, buys his way back into everybody's good graces before they know it is his fault, and everybody wins. Hell, Haley beat the whole guild without his help, no reason to think the pair of them wouldn't have shredded the whole guild.

There's no reason to expect such loyalty out of Pete. He lost his eyes originally through double-crossing Bozzok, and now he's double-crossed Haley to get them back. Unless Bozzok were dead, I don't think Pete would risk switching sides again.

Given the information in his possession, Pete would be suicidal to stage a rescue. Haley is one moderate-to-high-level Rogue. Her allies are a lawyer, a non-combatant cleric (who states to Belkar that he has only fought in self-defense, and Pete would have a very good knowledge of his abilities), and one sick-unto-death halfling. In other words, Haley is on her own against Bozzok, Crystal, and the entire Guild, with no escape but to shoot her way out through them. Except for the cleric's healing of Belkar and knowing the password to remove his curse (theoretically possible that Pete knew he knew the code? Yes. Something he could plan on? No), Haley would have been killed outright by Crystal here.

Pete had no reason to expect anything when he got home, other than to find Haley, Belkar, and the cleric being dragged lifeless out of his house. His last speech is just a panicky self-justification to try and save his own skull as he's double-crossed someone one time too many.

[Ron Miel]

Look, if he had been planning to lure the guild into a trap, then he would have certainly told Haley the plan and got her prepared for it. I'm 100% certain that he sold her out, plus his lifelong friend, and never had the slightest intention of helping her.

[White Blade]

I'm surprised you're reading so much into Pete having a weapons collection and that you're so ready to believe someone as slimy as Pete had already demonstrated himself to be was planning to cross the people who, as far as he could tell, had all the power in the situation to save people who would be lucky to survive even with his help at that point from a problem he created, so there we are.

My apologies if I sounded hostile. I simply think its more persuasive than that he wanted to read a book in a middle of a combat zone. I'm not trying to say other people are stupid for thinking otherwise, that's just how the scales balance for me. That was the intention of my second to last sentence, to indicate that I didn't feel it was unambiguous, just that there was another (serious) option of interpretation.

[rodneyAnonymous]

Yeah, if it wasn't actually equipped as a den as well as a trophy room/armory, I doubt it would be called a den by people like Haley who had no reason to hide the fact about the weapons inside. At least not without appropriate lampshading and/or quotes around the word den.

She calls in a den in #614.

[The Linker]

She calls in a den in #614.

Right. Keltest is saying that if it didn't serve as an actual den that Pete could realistically go and sit down and read a book in like he said he was going to, Haley wouldn't have called it a den. If it was just a place with weapons -- meaning the only reason Pete had to get in there was to get weapons and help out -- Haley would have, say, called it an armory, or put quotes around the word "den."

But because she did call it a den, we can reasonably infer that, hey, it's an actual den, and it's possible Pete actually did want to go hang out until the battle was over.


On the subject of whether it was reasonable for him to go reading a book in the middle of a battle... consider that this was the first time he was able to read a book in years. I can accept that perhaps he was just so eager to finally get to experience that again that it overrid his common sense temporarily. I think it's a reasonable thing to infer from his lines that he just really wanted to experience seeing his house once again.

And anyway, I might also suggest that if he wanted to make sure no one came after him for revenge, it's not unreasonable to get in the middle of a house full of like a hundred rogues that are on your side. What if Haley escaped, and then found him wandering the streets defenseless? He might well think "Yeah, I'd rather be in my den with a bunch of guards at the door."

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Look, if he had been planning to lure the guild into a trap, then he would have certainly told Haley the plan and got her prepared for it. I'm 100% certain that he sold her out, plus his lifelong friend, and never had the slightest intention of helping her.

Yeah, this is a good point. If he had intended to pretend to double-cross them, he probably would have informed them so that way they could base their strategy off that fact, or at least so that way one of your childhood friend didn't think you were really betraying them.

[Darth Paul]

My apologies if I sounded hostile. I simply think its more persuasive than that he wanted to read a book in a middle of a combat zone. I'm not trying to say other people are stupid for thinking otherwise, that's just how the scales balance for me. That was the intention of my second to last sentence, to indicate that I didn't feel it was unambiguous, just that there was another (serious) option of interpretation.

You didn't sound hostile, just like you really, really wanted to believe the best of Pete. And Pete doesn't deserve your generosity, if you ask me.

I tend to agree that Pete was really overcome with having his eyesight back for the first time in years, wanted to see his house again, and just wanted to sit and read in what should have been a safe place; considering that the Guild had the house locked down and he would have been guarded while he read his book.

It is possible that he wanted to get access to his weapons in case Bozzok and Crystal were planning to double-cross him, that's an element that just occurred to me, but I don't believe Pete was planning to stage a last-minute rescue, dramatic though it may have been- just because Pete by this point was old and cynical enough to sell his friends out in the first place, and I don't see him making a last-minute conversion to Big Damn Hero.

[Darth Paul]

Here's one that interested me. The fate that Elan predicted for himself in this episode ("Like, a big burn on the side of my face at the very least") is inflicted on his evil twin at the end of this one. Nice call-back, I thought.

EDIT: And just a few comics later, there's a Monopoly shout-out as Elan and Haley pass the sign pointing "Directly To Jail".

[rodneyAnonymous]

Right. Keltest is saying that...

Ah, thanks.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

l
EDIT: And just a few comics later, there's a Monopoly shout-out as Elan and Haley pass the sign pointing "Directly To Jail".

That's a funny one. Monopoly jokes like that usually crack me up.

[UristMcRandom]

The dying gladiator in this poster is Roy (in his full armor), and the helmet is the same one that we later see on Thog.

[Rodin]

The dying gladiator in this poster is Roy (in his full armor), and the helmet is the same one that we later see on Thog.

From the same comic, I never noticed that Roy seems to keep his boots when he goes gladiator. And then when I started looking for other similar ones, it turns out the heavily armored folks wear that style - Tarquin does, and so does Thog. Tarquin notably takes his off when attending the banquet.

[rodneyAnonymous]

Yeah, I don't think that's Roy, just another bald fighter.

[Vinyadan]

Yeah, I don't think that's Roy, just another bald fighter.

Lack of colour makes it very possible. But I think the Giant meant us to laugh in face of Roy's self-confidence.

Here's one that interested me. The fate that Elan predicted for himself in this episode ("Like, a big burn on the side of my face at the very least") is inflicted on his evil twin at the end of this one. Nice call-back, I thought.
.

I never noticed he got the burn by making Malak burn.

[...]Pete[...]

Well, half the Guild knew about Pete's den. He might have wanted to get in and check that nobody decided stealing from it was a pretty sweet idea.

EDIT: I never noticed Haley has converted with such emphasis to start calling around Thor's beard!

[Jaxzan Proditor]

The dying gladiator in this poster is Roy (in his full armor), and the helmet is the same one that we later see on Thog.

I don't know how I never noticed that, but it is very funny.

EDIT: I never noticed Haley has converted with such emphasis to start calling around Thor's beard!

As is this.

[TheMiningDwarf]

Here's one that interested me. The fate that Elan predicted for himself in this episode ("Like, a big burn on the side of my face at the very least") is inflicted on his evil twin at the end of this one. Nice call-back, I thought.

EDIT: And just a few comics later, there's a Monopoly shout-out as Elan and Haley pass the sign pointing "Directly To Jail".

The burn on the side of his face was a reference joke to Avatar the Last Airbender at least that's what I always thought.. Although maybe you're right and the Giant just wanted everyone to think it was just a reference.

Also in this comic we see Roy is using V's cape as a towel I hope Ve washed that before using it again.

[Keltest]

The burn on the side of his face was a reference joke to Avatar the Last Airbender at least that's what I always thought.. Although maybe you're right and the Giant just wanted everyone to think it was just a reference.

Also in this comic we see Roy is using V's cape as a towel I hope Ve washed that before using it again.

I always thought that was just a bunch of Malack that he got on his face.

[Darth Paul]

I always thought that was just a bunch of Malack that he got on his face.

That's possible, but I took it as a burn scar from holding Malack in place as he dies, especially since Nale has the mark for the rest of his life.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

That's possible, but I took it as a burn scar from holding Malack in place as he dies, especially since Nale has the mark for the rest of his life.

In context, that's not a terribly impressive statement, which I'm sure you meant to point out.

[Darth Paul]

In context, that's not a terribly impressive statement, as I'm sure you meant to point out.

I sort of meant that, if it were just a bunch of gunk, he would surely have taken a moment to wipe it off. Whereas a burn would be permanent and thus remain until Tarquin got all stabbity with him there at the end of things. So, I meant it to be a little more impressive than it came out... didn't think that one through.....

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I sort of meant that, if it were just a bunch of gunk, he would surely have taken a moment to wipe it off. Whereas a burn would be permanent and thus remain until Tarquin got all stabbity with him there at the end of things. So, I meant it to be a little more impressive than it came out... didn't think that one through.....

I actually thought you were linking to the comic to point out this flaw, which doesn't make much sense know that I think of it, so I think both of us are having difficulty writing decent posts. Ah well.

[Darth Paul]

I actually thought you were linking to the comic to point out this flaw, which doesn't make much sense know that I think of it, so I think both of us are having difficulty writing decent posts. Ah well.

I just spent 8+ hours at work in a state prison. Fatigue definitely affects my polysyllabic cogitation, not to mention my use of sesquipedalian loquaciousness.

[Vinyadan]

I just spent 8+ hours at work in a state prison. Fatigue definitely affects my polysyllabic cogitation, not to mention my use of sesquipedalian loquaciousness.

Oh man, I hope they move you to a federal prison as soon as possible, I've heard that life is much better there.

[fallensaviour]

first time poster, occasional forum reader, while cooking dinner a moment ago, i realized, it seems the concept of will save to disbelieve things like spells or damage might actually work in this setting as an early strip has durkon retroactivly hit a monster after roy reminds him of bonuses http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0034.html, then an azure city cleric died for believing his save roll was less than it actually was http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0456.html

[Yendor]

I always thought that was just a bunch of Malack that he got on his face.

It's a burn. You can see from the other marks he's taken damage from it.