El Goonish Shive II - I stand by my ridiculous comic

[Geordnet]

On a more current note, I think the mark got placed on Sarah.

I initially assumed it was on Tedd, but the discussion in this thread made me question that. My reasoning is as follows:

• On Tedd it's too obvious, both to Pandora and the Readers.
• Tedd's relation with magic is confused enough already
• Pandora took interest with Sarah in an earlier strip
• Sarah has wanted magic for a while (thus why it was "nice" to give it to her)
• No other canidate seems likely (excluding Tedd)

[Grey_Wolf_c]

• No other canidate seems likely (excluding Tedd)

Also add: Tedd is supposed to be immune to magic - this should include marks, or at least the spell that places marks, whatever it is.

However, as I said before, I believe that Sam might be another candidate for the mark, because of the obvious connection and because it already assumed Tedd was MtF Tran.

GW

[Douglas]

On a more current note, I think the mark got placed on Sarah.

I initially assumed it was on Tedd, but the discussion in this thread made me question that. My reasoning is as follows:

• On Tedd it's too obvious, both to Pandora and the Readers.
• Tedd's relation with magic is confused enough already
• Pandora took interest with Sarah in an earlier strip
• Sarah has wanted magic for a while (thus why it was "nice" to give it to her)
• No other canidate seems likely (excluding Tedd)

But what possible reason could Sarah have, consciously or otherwise, to change Tedd's gender right now?

Also add: Tedd is supposed to be immune to magic - this should include marks, or at least the spell that places marks, whatever it is.

Whatever Tedd is, immune to magic is not it. He's been measured as having 0 magic potential, but if anything that would imply lack of magic resistance.

In any case, it'll take pretty much an explicit reveal or authorial statement to convince me that it's not Tedd who's marked, considering the previously established relationship of mark spells to inner desires combined with the last panel here.

[Lissou]

Didn't that other immortal tell Sarah he couldn't mark her anymore after she realised it wasn't something she needed? I know Pandora is much more powerful but presumably she follows the same rules as other immortals? Of course that's not a bigger obstacle than Tedd's previously established "can't have spells of his own"

[Forum Explorer]

Didn't that other immortal tell Sarah he couldn't mark her anymore after she realised it wasn't something she needed? I know Pandora is much more powerful but presumably she follows the same rules as other immortals? Of course that's not a bigger obstacle than Tedd's previously established "can't have spells of his own"

That was then, and theoretically her mind could have changed enough to allow for a new mark to be put on her.

However the question is when would Tedd be transformed? We see it at the start of the match against Rich.


So candidates:

Tedd: He had the revelation and the spell fits him. He also had the desire to cast it. However he has the disability of never getting magic thing.

Rich: He had the revelation that Tedd was a guy, and he didn't want to be tricked, so he might have got it and accidently turned Tedd into a girl. Seems a bit of a long shot really.

Sam: He's implied to be Transgender so the spell certainly fits him. He also had the weird statement of 'you should consider Tess just in case.' But that implies that it wasn't an accident that Tedd transformed.

Grace: She was aware of the Transgender thing, and had the opportunity I suppose (assuming slow transformation). She may have picked up on Tedd's desire and subconsciously transformed him as well. But can she even get a mark?

In conclusion I'm baffled. I hope it isn't Ted, and I'm going to bet it was Sam.

[Geordnet]

But what possible reason could Sarah have, consciously or otherwise, to change Tedd's gender right now?

Accidental discharge.

(Example: I doubt Rhoda wanted to make the boar bigger.)

Whatever Tedd is, immune to magic is not it. He's been measured as having 0 magic potential, but if anything that would imply lack of magic resistance.

Tedd himself said he shouldn't be able to prevent himself from being enchanted. (Granted, that was a guess; but it's an educated guess.)

In any case, it'll take pretty much an explicit reveal or authorial statement to convince me that it's not Tedd who's marked, considering the previously established relationship of mark spells to inner desires combined with the last panel here.

While the owner of this mark will no doubt be revealed by the end of this subplot, since when were marks linked to inner desires?

Didn't that other immortal tell Sarah he couldn't mark her anymore after she realised it wasn't something she needed?

It was never established exactly how Jerry intended to give Sarah that power. It might have been a magic mark, it might not have.

[Landis963]

While the owner of this mark will no doubt be revealed by the end of this subplot, since when were marks linked to inner desires?

Since New and Old Flames at least. It's innate talents (as with Susan's mark) or desires (as with Dex's mark).

[Randomguy]

That was then, and theoretically her mind could have changed enough to allow for a new mark to be put on her.

However the question is when would Tedd be transformed? We see it at the start of the match against Rich.


So candidates:

Tedd: He had the revelation and the spell fits him. He also had the desire to cast it. However he has the disability of never getting magic thing.

Rich: He had the revelation that Tedd was a guy, and he didn't want to be tricked, so he might have got it and accidently turned Tedd into a girl. Seems a bit of a long shot really.

Sam: He's implied to be Transgender so the spell certainly fits him. He also had the weird statement of 'you should consider Tess just in case.' But that implies that it wasn't an accident that Tedd transformed.

Grace: She was aware of the Transgender thing, and had the opportunity I suppose (assuming slow transformation). She may have picked up on Tedd's desire and subconsciously transformed him as well. But can she even get a mark?

In conclusion I'm baffled. I hope it isn't Ted, and I'm going to bet it was Sam.

Sarah's also a candidate. Using magic from wands and watches builds up your own magical potential, and Sarah's been testing watches all summer, so she might have enough magical potential now for a mark. It's possible that she transformed Tedd when she hugged him.

[Forum Explorer]

Sarah's also a candidate. Using magic from wands and watches builds up your own magical potential, and Sarah's been testing watches all summer, so she might have enough magical potential now for a mark. It's possible that she transformed Tedd when she hugged him.

I don't think you need much magical potential for a mark. Marks seem to be based more on the personality of the individual. So I don't think that's a factor. It's possible, but I don't see why she would be a better candidate then the average person.

[Geordnet]

Since New and Old Flames at least. It's innate talents (as with Susan's mark) or desires (as with Dex's mark).

Of the four magic marks we know of, only one can be easily linked to the marked's personality (Dex being lonely -> getting a fairy summon). The other three do not correlate very well at all (which is to say there is no discernable pattern in their relationships). So statistically speaking, personality is worthless for predicting what marks may be valid.

For what it's worth, though, Sarah was at one point a canidate for a similar spell.

It's possible that [Sarah] transformed Tedd when she hugged him.

The hair color stayed the same, though. If Tedd is right, then his hair color and gender would have changed at the same time.

Tedd's hair color changed between comic 1906 and comic 1908.

Actually, this could be used to rule out both Larry and Rich from the list of canidates. They both have partial alibis.

Using magic from wands and watches builds up your own magical potential, and Sarah's been testing watches all summer

...You know, Pandora implied the person she marked had access to excess amounts of magic energy...

[Yuki Akuma]

Tedd is not immune to magic. Tedd should be utterly vulnerable to magic, in fact, due to his incredibly low magical potential. Then again, someone with such potential also shouldn't be able to cancel enchantments - but he's done that. And then promptly noted how weird it was that he's able to do it, to hammer it home to the readers.

Tedd has no magical potential according to the wand-thing, but he still produces magic in limited quantities - enough to charge up his glove. He has been shown to glow visible light at times of heightened emotion, as well, which is almost certainly magic in some way (because everything in EGS is magic in some way). He also has an incredibly bright magical aura according to Luke's aura vision (which probably shouldn't be able to detect immortals). Given aura strength is apparently related to magical ability (as seen by the fact that Grace, a very powerful natural magic user, has a brighter aura than Justin, the least powerful magic user in the main cast).

He's been stated to have no potential to cast spells, by the whale. However, there's no reason to assume the whales are omniscient - perhaps Tedd just has no ability to learn spells naturally, but can be empowered by an immortal. Alternatively, the abilities granted by marks aren't spells at all, but simply innate magical abilities.

Marks can only be given to people with an innate talent or with some sort of powerful desire - such as, say, Tedd's sudden, overpowering desire to be a girl right this damn second.

Tedd is the one with the mark, guys. Seriously.

[Qwertystop]

Indirectly related: Apparently magic marks disappear when someone's awakened.

[Geordnet]

Then again, someone with such potential also shouldn't be able to cancel enchantments - but he's done that. And then promptly noted how weird it was that he's able to do it, to hammer it home to the readers.

Also, he visibly glows on occasion. He's possibly developed the ability to sense magic as well.

Honestly, there's just no telling what the deal with Tedd is. In the lack of anything else to go on, I'd give the magic space whale the benefit of the doubt here.

[Mando Knight]

It's possible that his more dangerous anomaly is that he's literally the physical epicenter of the weirdness. The magic detector wand wasn't able to read his potential because his potential is the background magic level.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

It's possible that his more dangerous anomaly is that he's literally the physical epicenter of the weirdness. The magic detector wand wasn't able to read his potential because his potential is the background magic level.

I believe the term you are looking for is sourcerer

GW

[Lord Raziere]

wait.

Tedd's so far unexplained magical weirdness + Mopervilles general weirdness and center of magic + Tedd's color scheme being purple + Chaos's color scheme also purple + Tedd's mother not being shown in the comic + Tedd's father being a paranormal cover up agent + Chaos being kind to Tedd + Tedd's natural inclination to cause chaos and weirdness with his science = OH MY GOD:

Spoiler

Show

CHAOS IS TEDD'S MOTHER! Tedd is a larvae elven immortal. he inherited the purpleness, the gender-fludity, and other such things from Chaos as well as great magical potential, and is driven by his heritage to cause chaos in minor ways. he/she just hasn't fully become a full elf like Raven yet because her magic hasn't activated yet in some way. it all makes sense now.

[Gadora]

wait.

Tedd's so far unexplained magical weirdness + Mopervilles general weirdness and center of magic + Tedd's color scheme being purple + Chaos's color scheme also purple + Tedd's mother not being shown in the comic + Tedd's father being a paranormal cover up agent + Chaos being kind to Tedd + Tedd's natural inclination to cause chaos and weirdness with his science = OH MY GOD:

Spoiler

Show

CHAOS IS TEDD'S MOTHER! Tedd is a larvae elven immortal. he inherited the purpleness, the gender-fludity, and other such things from Chaos as well as great magical potential, and is driven by his heritage to cause chaos in minor ways. he/she just hasn't fully become a full elf like Raven yet because her magic hasn't activated yet in some way. it all makes sense now.

Nope. Grand godson.

[Luzahn]

Spoiler

Show

I mean, I like this theory, but we still have to fit Nanase's mother in there. Mr. Verres' wife would still need to exist for things to make sense, although it's still possible she isn't actually Tedd's biological mother.

[Lord Raziere]

@ Gadora: how did I miss that!? or forget that. seriously, what the heck memory?

@ Luzahn: well I did have a theory about Nanase's mother being Order buuuuut......nevermind, false alarm everyone. I didn't read what was clearly spelled out. argh.

this does however mean that Tedd's mother is an immortal elf though.

[Gadora]

@ Gadora: how did I miss that!? or forget that. seriously, what the heck memory?

@ Luzahn: well I did have a theory about Nanase's mother being Order buuuuut......nevermind, false alarm everyone. I didn't read what was clearly spelled out. argh.

this does however mean that Tedd's mother is an immortal elf though.

Grand godson, not grandson. That means that Raven would be Tedd's godfather, not that there's any biological connection.

[Geordnet]

It's possible that his more dangerous anomaly is that he's literally the physical epicenter of the weirdness. The magic detector wand wasn't able to read his potential because his potential is the background magic level.

I really like this theory. It explains why Lord Tedd would be trying to kill other Tedds, if the weirdness threatens to escalate to the point of causing some sort of horrible cataclysm.

[Lissou]

@ Gadora: how did I miss that!? or forget that. seriously, what the heck memory?

@ Luzahn: well I did have a theory about Nanase's mother being Order buuuuut......nevermind, false alarm everyone. I didn't read what was clearly spelled out. argh.

this does however mean that Tedd's mother is an immortal elf though.

Assuming that when you said "immortal elf" you meant "half immortal" (like Adrian/Raven), which makes sense if you interpreted it as Pandora being Tedd's grandmother rather than grand-godmother (in which cas you probably thought Tedd's mother was Adrian's sister)... not possible. Adrian said that half-immortals can't reproduce, so he's certain he doesn't have children.

Adrian/Raven is Tedd's godfather (another option for Pandora being Tedd's grand-godmother would be her being either of Tedd's parents' godmother, but this makes less sense and Dan said in the commentary that it's not the case.)
That fits well with him knowing Tedd's parents for a long time, and that seems to be why Pandora cares about Tedd. Raven seems to think he has a debt towards Tedd, and Pandora might be crazy, but it looks like she cares a whole lot about her son.

[The Mormegil]

Also add: Tedd is supposed to be immune to magic - this should include marks, or at least the spell that places marks, whatever it is.

However, as I said before, I believe that Sam might be another candidate for the mark, because of the obvious connection and because it already assumed Tedd was MtF Tran.

GW

Didn't that other immortal tell Sarah he couldn't mark her anymore after she realised it wasn't something she needed? I know Pandora is much more powerful but presumably she follows the same rules as other immortals? Of course that's not a bigger obstacle than Tedd's previously established "can't have spells of his own"

OH MY GOD.

I will just link this.

[Geordnet]

More possible foreshadowing for Sarah having this mark... (First panel.)

[Lizard Lord]

More possible foreshadowing for Sarah having this mark... (First panel.)

Um...how?

Lack of emoticon makes me wonder if you are joking or if I am missing something.

[Lissou]

Um...how?

Lack of emoticon makes me wonder if you are joking or if I am missing something.

My guess is their point goes something like that "Sarah wants to turn herself into a man, and Grace picked up on it, and since marks tend to be linked to what you desire, that means the mark could be on her"

[Lizard Lord]

My guess is their point goes something like that "Sarah wants to turn herself into a man, and Grace picked up on it, and since marks tend to be linked to what you desire, that means the mark could be on her"

..........

What.

[Lissou]

..........

What.

Well, remember I'm interpreting someone else's point so I could easily be wrong.

But imagine Sarah wants to turn into a man. Not difficult to conceive, as Jerry stated so when he wanted to mark her.
The first panel the person was linking to showed Sara turning herself into a man. Grace is perceptive and could have sense that Sarah still wants to be turned into a man.
Magic marks match what people crave. She could be the one with a genderbending mark.

Is this making more sense to you?

[Vinyadan]

Thanks to anyone is giving his money through Patreon, the NP-strips are back!

[Lizard Lord]

Well, remember I'm interpreting someone else's point so I could easily be wrong.

But imagine Sarah wants to turn into a man. Not difficult to conceive, as Jerry stated so when he wanted to mark her.
The first panel the person was linking to showed Sara turning herself into a man. Grace is perceptive and could have sense that Sarah still wants to be turned into a man.
Magic marks match what people crave. She could be the one with a genderbending mark.

Is this making more sense to you?

It...it just seems like it is seriously grasping at some straws here. More likely Grace remembers that Sarah almost got a spell to turn herself into a man. Although Sarah decided it isn't what she wanted and thus didn't get the spell Grace, as a person that likes transformations, got the idea of what Man-Sarah would look like stuck in her subconscious.


Meanwhile we have Tedd. Tedd likes turning into a girl and recently came to the realization that he is gender fluid. Those who say that Tedd has zero magic energy are remembering incorrectly (even if we ignore all the forshadowing that indicates this may not be entirely true). Tedd has some magic energy. Enough to use magic watches and likely wands. Tedd has said that normal people aren't much better off than he is. Sarah, a person with the magic levels of a perfectly average person could have gotten a magic mark. Magic marks, like the magic watches, are only able to grant one spell (unless you pour more than the normal magic energy levels in it). Therefore it stands to reason that if Tedd can use the watches he can use a mark. It is possible he could only do so within Moperville (like with the watches) due to the residual magic energy, but I still see no reason he shouldn't be able to use them at all.