Strong Female Protagonist (webcomic)

[Avilan the Grey]

Indeed, she has not learned anything, really, she still resorts to her powers (strength mainly) in any situation, warranted or not.
He was not a threat to her, she could have pressed her point in other ways, and shouldn't have to super-strength-choke anyone until they actually proves to be a threat.

Especially since IMHO she never got a clear answer in the beginning, but just assumed his intentions were evil (yes, the way he is drawn with an evil smile on his face is kind of a giveaway but I am not sure if she actually saw that or if it's for the reader's benefit, and yes, he answered like an idiot, but then he was probably drunk too). I would find it kind of interesting if it turns out that he was just planning on driving her home.

[Reverent-One]

Miles is obviously a scumbag and his friends aren't that much better for excusing that behaviour but that doesn't give Alison a free pass to resort to violence. She wants to be treated like everybody else but then proceeds to use her powers to solve the first problem she meets, when just calling this guy out in public could've sufficed.

She tried that, no one answered, so she restrained him so he couldn't leave with the girl, while also drawing more attention to what's going on. She wasn't being particularly gentle with him, but by my read not intentionally trying to harm him. I mean, people are still ignoring how sketchy what he was doing was (which actually is a complaint I have with the last couple of pages), just calling him out doesn't seem like it would be enough.

I would find it kind of interesting if it turns out that he was just planning on driving her home.

I would find it interesting if he knows where she lives when he doesn't even know her name.

[The Glyphstone]

She tried that, no one answered, so she restrained him so he couldn't leave with the girl, while also drawing more attention to what's going on. She wasn't being particularly gentle with him, but by my read not intentionally trying to harm him. I mean, people are still ignoring how sketchy what he was doing was (which actually is a complaint I have with the last couple of pages), just calling him out doesn't seem like it would be enough.



I would find it interesting if he knows where she lives when he doesn't even know her name.

No one is ignoring how sketchy he was...the only way he could be more sketchy would be to twirl his long, black mustache and be leading the drunk girl towards railroad tracks. It's not a question for debate, so no one is mentioning it.

The bold part is the point that's being made. We were discussing the Furnace guy who toasted some illegal immigrants at the start of the story due to losing control/lacking finesse, and that's similar to what is going on here. Allison does not have fine control over her powers when she's angry, and like the Hulk, she is always angry. She has super-strength - a hand around the arm or wrist and he's going nowhere she doesn't like - but she went for the Vader-grab instead. Even unpowered people don't grab by the throat unless they're trying to do harm, and she has concrete-busting strength...it's sheer luck Miles Von Scumbag lived long enough to be released, instead of death by snapped neck or crushed windpipe. Even if he was intending to 'get lucky' (aka date rape, that girl is plastered), murdering him for something he hadn't done (yet) - or even if he had - would make Allison a villain and criminal too.

[Reverent-One]

No one is ignoring how sketchy he was...the only way he could be more sketchy would be to twirl his long, black mustache and be leading the drunk girl towards railroad tracks. It's not a question for debate, so no one is mentioning it.

The other girl is defending him ("He's in my class. He's not a...a.."), and freaks out even more when Alison explictly suggests him being a rapist.

The bold part is the point that's being made. We were discussing the Furnace guy who toasted some illegal immigrants at the start of the story due to losing control/lacking finesse, and that's similar to what is going on here. Allison does not have fine control over her powers when she's angry, and like the Hulk, she is always angry. She has super-strength - a hand around the arm or wrist and he's going nowhere she doesn't like - but she went for the Vader-grab instead. Even unpowered people don't grab by the throat unless they're trying to do harm, and she has concrete-busting strength...it's sheer luck Miles Von Scumbag lived long enough to be released, instead of death by snapped neck or crushed windpipe. Even if he was intending to 'get lucky' (aka date rape, that girl is plastered), murdering him for something he hadn't done (yet) - or even if he had - would make Allison a villain and criminal too.

Alternatively, luck has nothing to do with him being alive, but it's that she was in in control and didn't use the extent of her superstrength beyond what was needed to lift him up. She's not really shown as angry here, her dialogue comes off as not happy, but calm. Not until the "I am chill!" AFTER she lets him go does she really raise her voice or show real frustration.

[The Glyphstone]

The other girl is defending him ("He's in my class. He's not a...a.."), and freaks out even more when Alison explictly suggests him being a rapist.

Oh, you mean in-comic. I thought you meant us commentators out-of-comic.

Yeah, in-comic everywhere there is just as much a scumbag.

[Reverent-One]

Oh, you mean in-comic. I thought you meant us commentators out-of-comic.

Yeah, in-comic everywhere there is just as much a scumbag.

Yeah, sorry that wasn't more clear, but I was responding to the claim that she was defaulting unnecessarily to using her powers to handle the situation, even though she tried first just to talk things through (it simply didn't do much good).

[Alcibiades]

Is there evidence that she's not in complete control of her strength? I have no idea. She did say super accuracy isn't one of her anomalies.

This isn't the worst thing she could've done, but she could've handled it better. What she did on the previous page has a very Caped Crusader feel to them. If someone fails to cooperate, assert your dominance through a show of force. That's warranted if the Joker has planted a bomb in one of five buildings and you have 10 minutes to figure out which one, not if you can just seperate the girl from the guy and get a good hold of him that doesn't involve asphyxiating him. She's falling back into her Mega Girl persona when all that's called for is just a sensible person to intervene.

She's using violence when it isn't necessary is what I'm saying. Which makes sense considering she's admitted she enjoys it, but it also complicates situations like this - people might be less inclined to take Miles' side if they hadn't just seen him get strangled.

[Reverent-One]

She's using violence when it isn't necessary is what I'm saying.

Without demonstrating why it's not necessary. She tried talking, no one else was caring and Miles was trying to blow her off and leave.

[Alcibiades]

Alison asks if anyone knows him or the girl, he starts to tell her off but before he can finish his sentence Alison lifts him up and repeats the question. The way I'm reading that is that she let a second or two pass after asking a question to no one in particular in the middle of a party before proceeding to strangle the guy. She could've spoken up more, repeated the question, addressed specific people in the crowd to get involved (which is the correct way to deal with crowds in any sort of emergency), etc.

Whether or not Miles was about to leave doesn't matter since Alison can detain him without hurting him. And if she did what she did to draw people's attention, yeah, I don't have the impression this was a last resort.

[Reverent-One]

Alison asks if anyone knows him or the girl, he starts to tell her off but before he can finish his sentence Alison lifts him up and repeats the question. The way I'm reading that is that she let a second or two pass after asking a question to no one in particular in the middle of a party before proceeding to strangle the guy. She could've spoken up more, repeated the question, addressed specific people in the crowd to get involved (which is the correct way to deal with crowds in any sort of emergency), etc.

Whether or not Miles was about to leave doesn't matter since Alison can detain him without hurting him. And if she did what she did to draw people's attention, yeah, I don't have the impression this was a last resort.

Any form of detaining him physically would fall under the category of violence/force though, which you said wasn't required. So then it's not that she used physical force that's the problem then, but we're splitting hairs on the form of that force should have taken.

[The Glyphstone]

Any form of detaining him physically would fall under the category of violence/force though, which you said wasn't required. So then it's not that she used physical force that's the problem then, but we're splitting hairs on the form of that force should have taken.

Less the form and more the degree. There would be ways to use force to detain him that couldn't or wouldn't cause injury to him. So we're splitting hairs on if the situation justified the level of force she employed, which isn't really splitting hairs at all.

[Reverent-One]

Less the form and more the degree. There would be ways to use force to detain him that couldn't or wouldn't cause injury to him. So we're splitting hairs on if the situation justified the level of force she employed, which isn't really splitting hairs at all.

Except that's not a difference of level of force because he didn't suffer any injury the way she did it. Freaked out a bit? Sure, but there's no actual harm.

[The Glyphstone]

Except that's not a difference of level of force because he didn't suffer any injury the way she did it. Freaked out a bit? Sure, but there's no actual harm.

She was strangling him. If she hadn't put him down - because someone asked her to, she didn't do it spontaneously - he would have first passed out, then started suffering progressive brain damage and eventually death. An arm-bar blocking his way, a hand on his wrist/arm/shoulder, any one of many martial-arts immobilization holds...they could be held indefinitely without injury, when a strangle choke cannot.

[Reverent-One]

She was strangling him. If she hadn't put him down - because someone asked her to, she didn't do it spontaneously - he would have first passed out, then started suffering progressive brain damage and eventually death. An arm-bar blocking his way, a hand on his wrist/arm/shoulder, any one of many martial-arts immobilization holds...they could be held indefinitely without injury, when a strangle choke cannot.

She didn't need to hold him indefinitely, there's no reason to assume that she would have done so. You might as well assume if she grabbed his arm that she would grabbed it hard enough to shatter it if we're making ungenerous hypotheticals.

[LadyEowyn]

Allison has control over her super-strength (this is outright stated in the second "chapter"). She wasn't going to accidentally strangle the guy or break his neck. She was pissed off and deliberately calling attention to his actions in a way that people couldn't ignore. The point wasn't solely to prevent him from raping the girl he was with; it was also to make everyone else at the party aware of what he was doing. Social accountability for your actions is an effective form of deterrence.

Although between learning that a friend is subjecting herself to continual torture (and will continue to do so unless Allison finds a way to create global utopia) and knowing that her father is dying of cancer, I would bet that Allison is more on edge and quick-tempered than usual.

Violet's reaction is at least as interesting as Allison's actions, and I think it's a major point of this particular scene. We've seen since the start of the comic that Violet is very leftist, feminist, and generally social-justice-y. Put her in a classroom and she's probably be totally on board with saying that having sex with a really drunk person is rape. But in this case it's a guy she knows, so she doesn't want to see it. Because the folks we know and interact with on a daily basis are basically good people, they couldn't be all that bad...right?

I'm hoping this means we'll get some character development for Violet, since up until now I've found her pretty annoying and insensitive (especially in the first chapter, using Allison as a shield in order to ramp up the protest).

[Avilan the Grey]

I would find it interesting if he knows where she lives when he doesn't even know her name.

He might ask. Or realize that she is too drunk before it goes too far. We don't even know how drunk HE is, just that he isn't plastered out of his mind.
My point is that the situation is intentionally drawn extremely black and white, which I find annoying. Most situations similar to this is not at all as obvious (She's really drunk, but really wants to have sex (which instead makes things complicated the morning after) etc etc.

Yes, I understand the point the writer wants to make, and I understand it is a neccesary one, and I do NOT defend him in any way. It's just that the anvil just hit me in the head in a too obvious way.

Also, again, she definitely went too far too quickly.

[Alcibiades]

Except that's not a difference of level of force because he didn't suffer any injury the way she did it. Freaked out a bit? Sure, but there's no actual harm.

I don't think it's cool to cause pain to people when it's not necessary, regardless of whether or not you cause any physical damage. But that's just my opinion.
More broadly, I'm not a fan of vigilante justice. Alison's intervention is preferable to the outcome if she hadn't stepped in, but that doesn't excuse assault.

Violet's being a bitch but she has a point when she says that Alison's years as a superhero have left her with a short fuse. If she wants to make the world the best place that it can possibly be, she needs to learn to respect the little laws (despite effectively being above the law) and control her temper.

Violet's reaction is at least as interesting as Allison's actions, and I think it's a major point of this particular scene. We've seen since the start of the comic that Violet is very leftist, feminist, and generally social-justice-y. Put her in a classroom and she's probably be totally on board with saying that having sex with a really drunk person is rape. But in this case it's a guy she knows, so she doesn't want to see it. Because the folks we know and interact with on a daily basis are basically good people, they couldn't be all that bad...right?

That's definitely the bigger takeaway here. I have good faith that she'll come around once she has some time to think about it, though.

If I had to take a guess at where this story is going it's that the mysterious thing at the start of this issue is going to kill Miles and get Alison in a whole lot of trouble. It's been a bit garbled so far, though.

[Shogo]

I guess it'd be nice if Violet got her head out of her ass . . . Haven't really liked her in any of her appearances so far.

[Avilan the Grey]

I guess it'd be nice if Violet got her head out of her ass . . . Haven't really liked her in any of her appearances so far.

Most definitely.

[Reverent-One]

I don't think it's cool to cause pain to people when it's not necessary, regardless of whether or not you cause any physical damage. But that's just my opinion.
More broadly, I'm not a fan of vigilante justice. Alison's intervention is preferable to the outcome if she hadn't stepped in, but that doesn't excuse assault.

You already said detaining him was alright, and any physical form of that would just as much be assault. Grabbing his arm hard enough that he can't get away would likely cause pain as well. This isn't vigilante justice, this is one person defending someone else.

Basically, to be consistent either she's not justified in touching/restraining him at all, which I think is ridiculous because she doesn't have a way to make sure he doesn't get away while she's trying to make sure nothing bad is going on, or she can use a level of force that can cause temporary discomfort but not actual injury, which is what she did.

[Bilious]

It's probably going to be significant if she realises how hypocritically she's taking this girl away, without knowing her name.

The implication's certainly that Miles is not a nice guy at all, and we know Alison's intentions are positive. There's also the societal assumption that a guy with a woman is more likely to be a threat than a woman with a woman, which is probably justified but isn't a constant. Would Alison have reacted in the same way if she'd seen Violet with drunk lady? Or a woman she didn't know? Should she react in the same way in those two situations, if we assume she acted correctly here?

I can't fault Alison's initial approach, but today's comic does, in my opinion, show Alison taking her conclusions too far without enough questions, and without much self-awareness.

[LadyEowyn]

The guy's intentions were pretty clear, given that he was trying to get away with her, claimed to be on a date, and didn't know her name. If he was going to drive her home, he would have just said "She's drunk and needs a ride home".

Allison reached exactly the right conclusion based on the information available.

[Bilious]

By initial approach I'm referring to everything up to where she put Miles down again.

She did, perhaps, pick him up too hastily, but given context of what he seems to have been doing a strong reaction doesn't seem at all unreasonable.

[Avilan the Grey]

You already said detaining him was alright, and any physical form of that would just as much be assault. Grabbing his arm hard enough that he can't get away would likely cause pain as well. This isn't vigilante justice, this is one person defending someone else.

Basically, to be consistent either she's not justified in touching/restraining him at all, which I think is ridiculous because she doesn't have a way to make sure he doesn't get away while she's trying to make sure nothing bad is going on, or she can use a level of force that can cause temporary discomfort but not actual injury, which is what she did.

Well I assume it is legal to cause physical harm without proof in a citizen's arrest in America? Because over here, with the situation as it stands, she would be jailed for assault, and he would not be arrested at all.

She clearly broke the law. He didn't. Yet.

[Cikomyr]

Well I assume it is legal to cause physical harm without proof in a citizen's arrest in America? Because over here, with the situation as it stands, she would be jailed for assault, and he would not be arrested at all.

She clearly broke the law. He didn't. Yet.

I think there would be significant extenuating circumstances if you believed the person might have been trying to commit rape, and you stepped in.


Unless you have a history of violent and aggressive behavior, and thus it might indicate you just wanted to punch someone.

[The Glyphstone]

I think there would be significant extenuating circumstances if you believed the person might have been trying to commit rape, and you stepped in.


Unless you have a history of violent and aggressive behavior, and thus it might indicate you just wanted to punch someone.

I'm honestly not sure if the second comment there is meant to be intentionally ironic or not.

[Cikomyr]

I'm honestly not sure if the second comment there is meant to be intentionally ironic or not.

It is meant to, indeed, address the sort of situation a mundane would face in PowerGirl's situation.

However, PowerGirl happens to be a publicly-acclaimed hero, known crime-fighter and generally well-respected by the authorities. Plus, it's not like anyone can do anything to her in the first place. So.. It's not like her history of violence would be considered a negative. In fact, it's more than likely the authorities would naturally side with her, seeing her positive record.

[LadyEowyn]

Mega Girl, not PowerGirl.

[Cikomyr]

Mega Girl, not PowerGirl.

Potatoe, Potayto ;)

I knew it wasn't powergirl, but I wasn't really feeling to go check it up.

[Avilan the Grey]

I think there would be significant extenuating circumstances if you believed the person might have been trying to commit rape, and you stepped in.


Unless you have a history of violent and aggressive behavior, and thus it might indicate you just wanted to punch someone.

That's the point though, it wouldn't. This is a text book example of Assault, and would warrant at least an arrest, and most likely a month or two in prison.
Also... exactly.