Mass Effect 3 - 13: Bet you could really go for a bottle of cool, refreshing Tupari!

[Jayngfet]

You could really just stop there. Having read the article, that description if anything undersells it. It actually leaves me with the impression that they're not even far enough along for him to be sure if anything he's saying is really permanent anyway, frankly.

They're evidently more than halfway done at this point. If they can't lock down the basic functions of what they're claiming is a key element of the game at that point, they have more serious issues than can be discussed in a single forum post.

I mean if they aren't willing to say if the Mako can even still jump at this point, that's kind of a sticking point that needs to be addressed. Jumping is kind of the only think the Mako would be capable of once you knock out the guns. If they're not clear on if they can manage that, then it basically strips the vehicle down to a basic land rover.

If they can't say for whatever reason, then that's cool, don't say it. But half measures don't make anyone look great.

[Zevox]

They're evidently more than halfway done at this point.

Where'd you hear that? I'd be rather surprised if that's the case, given the info from comic-con said the game is still years away, plural.

[Jayngfet]

Where'd you hear that? I'd be rather surprised if that's the case, given the info from comic-con said the game is still years away, plural.

A tweet from back in may used Halfway as a rough point. That's not an official statement, but it's as decent a benchmark as any.

[SiuiS]

Of course a real man gets out of the Mako and kills everything on foot in order to get more exp. Yes, even thresher maws.

Especially thresher maws.

Not as a soldier (my favorite class) it wasn't. I'd get out, activate the "I win" abilities, then fire my death-hose assault rifle until it died. Good times.

Incidentally, if they do bring back multiplayer, they need to give the soldier some teeth. It's one of the most popular classes by far, and it was just about the worst class to bring to a match without just the right kit, build, and weapons. That really needs to change.

I dunno. The soldier was also the hardest class to mess up. The default build (auto level) actually had good results with the soldier. A human soldier could either be an industrial tank and lob grenades, an mobile turret who potentially never ran out of ammo ever, or a missile launcher who caused constant fast-paced explosions with minimal fuss. The only soldier that was literally just run and gun was the destroyer, and that was it's charm.

A lot of folks underestimated how potent an SMG with say, fire ammo, and spamming the concussive shot power could be.

I don't think that any class should be any more gear dependent than any other. If you want to make Soldiers dependent on gear, fine, just bring back Biotic amps and Omni-tools from the first game to make the other classes gear dependent, too. If not, then see to it soldiers can operate effectively no matter what weapons they choose. The weapons themselves should just be a choice of playstyle, not a determination of whether you can even contribute on higher difficulties.

I would like amps and omnitool a to return, actually. Yeah.

However, this summary is wrong. In mass effect two and three, all classes were equally gear dependent. All classes were equally good at soldiering. Being a "soldier" changed your powers to "better with weapons/non-cool down explosions with ammo/constant rocket spam" instead of "better against barriers/two-shot room clears on cool down/throw spam" or similar. But soldier was NOT the class dependent on weapons. It was as weapon-agnostic as any other class. That's actually a perk; the game allows you to play all characters identically, and either spice up your gunplay with some powers or spice up your trippy casting with some gunplay. Even as a soldier.

Indeed, this is the real problem - not the fact that soldiers are gun-based. Those soldiers who did get Particle Rifle/Harrier/Typhoon X would routinely top the charts even with maxed out casters in the same game with them. Being weapon-based lets the class also have a higher ceiling.

Class-agnostic; my vanguard, infiltrator and sentinel were just as godly for having that particle rifle 8.

I've always been of the opinion that the issue was the relegation of ammo powers to the status of consumable weapons that can be used by anyone. Without those ammo powers as actual class powers, soldiers just don't have the punch they need with anything other than top tier weapons.

I'm of two minds on it. I believe it was a good idea because it removed "do you want a basic passive boost that sorta does stuff on your power wheel instead of going invisible, teleporting, paralyzingly or hypnotizing an enemy?" As a trap option. By trap option I mean that the addition of another power, and one that is definitely, distinctly gun-based dilutes the form of the character enough to create traps where there weren't any. Too many choices, too many opportunities to spend points poorly if you don't max one skill immediately. It gets worse when you have two ammo powers; do you get fire ammo up to explosions on all bullets? Or so you also take freezing ammo and mix things up? No grenades, adrenaline rush, or concussive shot though, those have to wait until level fourteen when you can spare a point or two. Oh. also class passive and health boost and weight capacity skills. Don't forget those. No grenades for you.

On the other, though, expendables remove the customization and adaptability that ME2 (and 3 SP) provided. The mass effect 1 system would be best, I think. Make ammo powers something you add to the weapon in the customization slots instead of the standard +50% damage barrel or whatever. Make interesting choices; reduce damage but increase magazine size substantially. Reduce recoil but reduce mag size. Increase weight but switch to cool down system. Increase reload time but add fire damage. Bypass shields but do less damage to armor.

We're talking business decisions here, siuis. "I and my two acquaintances don't like the Mako" vs. a packed room full of cheering masses at SDCC isn't exactly marketing rocket science.

Yes, but there are much less personally dismissive ways to make that point. It seemed out of character for you, a sort of personal attack instead of a refutation.

Ah well.

[Jayngfet]

However, this summary is wrong. In mass effect two and three, all classes were equally gear dependent. All classes were equally good at soldiering. Being a "soldier" changed your powers to "better with weapons/non-cool down explosions with ammo/constant rocket spam" instead of "better against barriers/two-shot room clears on cool down/throw spam" or similar. But soldier was NOT the class dependent on weapons. It was as weapon-agnostic as any other class. That's actually a perk; the game allows you to play all characters identically, and either spice up your gunplay with some powers or spice up your trippy casting with some gunplay. Even as a soldier.

Eh, I dunno if this is the best approach honestly. In the original game half the fun was finding out how your specific class was "supposed" to handle a situation, especially with the Thorian Creeper, since a soldier handles very differently from an engineer in a number of spots, given that one lacks effective sniping or shotgun use and the other has zero debuffs or non-carnage explosions.

In the later games half your stuff was basically Palette Swaps and nothing else. You pick up a shield boost, an explosive for when enemies leave cover, and at least one type of ammo upgrade and you're done save for gun picking, and adding SMG's made Assault Rifles less unique or valuable since now everyone's got a rapid fire gun.

[SiuiS]

Eh, I dunno if this is the best approach honestly. In the original game half the fun was finding out how your specific class was "supposed" to handle a situation, especially with the Thorian Creeper, since a soldier handles very differently from an engineer in a number of spots, given that one lacks effective sniping or shotgun use and the other has zero debuffs or non-carnage explosions.

In the later games half your stuff was basically Palette Swaps and nothing else. You pick up a shield boost, an explosive for when enemies leave cover, and at least one type of ammo upgrade and you're done save for gun picking, and adding SMG's made Assault Rifles less unique or valuable since now everyone's got a rapid fire gun.

I don't know. Soldier may have been unique, but the thorian fight was universal for me. Vanguard, adept, engineer, infiltrator and sentinel all played identical, as you said; palette swaps.

On the other end, there was a lot of variety solely in "gun picking" later on, so that two identical armor and skill soldiers play differently with different load outs, as differently as most caster builds.

The addition of SMGs with a range of accuracy and power just further increased the class-agnostic factor, since anyone could use any gun... For a price.

[Psyren]

A tweet from back in may used Halfway as a rough point. That's not an official statement, but it's as decent a benchmark as any.

Link?

Yes, but there are much less personally dismissive ways to make that point. It seemed out of character for you, a sort of personal attack instead of a refutation.

Ah well.

How would you have made it?

Eh, I dunno if this is the best approach honestly. In the original game half the fun was finding out how your specific class was "supposed" to handle a situation, especially with the Thorian Creeper, since a soldier handles very differently from an engineer in a number of spots, given that one lacks effective sniping or shotgun use and the other has zero debuffs or non-carnage explosions.

In the later games half your stuff was basically Palette Swaps and nothing else. You pick up a shield boost, an explosive for when enemies leave cover, and at least one type of ammo upgrade and you're done save for gun picking, and adding SMG's made Assault Rifles less unique or valuable since now everyone's got a rapid fire gun.

The basic premise of the combat has been the same throughout the series actually. There are organic enemies and synthetic enemies, with different strengths and weaknesses - either you targeted their weakness or you did so much damage that the lack of a weakness didn't matter.

They spiced it up in 2 and 3 by adding the three defenses (armor, shields, barriers) but likewise, it stayed the same - target a weakness or do so much damage that it doesn't matter.
3 made it so that each class had more tools to do these - e.g. letting Overload work on barriers, and letting biotic explosions work on protected enemies.

[Jayngfet]

Link?

Yo.

Of course, EA kind of made some (Reasonable) demands that they turn out a version for testing way earlier around that time, so they might have had to rework some things, but that doesn't change the overall point. I.E. They should be far enough along to know what core mechanics are.

[Psyren]

Good thing I hover links before clicking them nice try though. (And hey, you can't blame me for asking given your track record on dev statements, like the Gaider dwarf thing.)

Also, you're conflating "what they know" with "what they've shown us." Not the same thing.

[Jayngfet]

Good thing I hover links before clicking them nice try though. (And hey, you can't blame me for asking given your track record on dev statements, like the Gaider dwarf thing.)

Also, you're conflating "what they know" with "what they've shown us." Not the same thing.

Fair enough, but "what they've shown us" is the sticking point. They likely know fully well what the Mako can and can't do, or at least have a very good idea. But they aren't showing it and are keeping things needlessly ambiguous.

[SiuiS]

How would you have made it?

I don't know anymore, and frankly I don't care anymore either. If you feel that it was a perfectly commendable move then I'll trust your judgement. But I was surprised to find the response I did and that it came from you. What that means and if it's relevant is your decision.

[Leon]

Full Play through Complete.

[Yora]

I struggled through ME1 with an adept on insane and have now made it through Horizon with a Vanguard in ME2.

And it's not really fun. The weapons all suck, everyone is immune to biotics until just before death, and I just don't have enough barriers to use charge except to finish off the last remaining enemy.

The way I play it, I would be much better of with a soldier, being tougher and being able to use an assault rifle, and grenades in ME3. Shotgun and SMG don't hit anything from a safe distance, and pistol runs out of ammo after two enemies. Vindicator and Viper seem like the weapons to go with.

What about the other classes? Is any of them better than a soldier for Insane?

[Squark]

Adept is probably the worst off in ME2 insanity, and most classes are relying on their class skill to survive.

-Engineers spam combat drone to distract enemies.
-Infiltrators need to depend on hit and run with cloak.
-Soldiers only come up for air while adrenaline rush is up
-Sentinels live and die by tech armor
-Vanguards become a twitch class.

Edit: Stealing Memory is pretty critical for ME2 on any class except soldier since the stock SMG is a piece of junk and the tempest doesn't come until after the hardest mission in the game. Cerberus Network for the Executioner shotgun or the firepower dlc help with range issues too. Also, make sure you go for headshots with the pistol- that's what its designed for.

Also, Mantis> Viper, at least for soldier. You need the one shot, one kill for heavy weapons enemies.

[Psyren]

The whole idea behind Vanguard Insanity is to use the charge as a combination self-heal-and-attack. The idea is to soften them up from range and then rush in to finish with headshots at point blank with the most powerful shotgun you have (usually GPS or Claymore.) Prioritize charging at enemies who are isolated (i.e. at the flanks rather than the center of the pack) and near cover relative to their allies so that you can duck down quickly if you take more fire than you anticipated.

Horizon is actually one of the easier missions for Vanguards because all the enemies are organic. This means that your incendiary ammo will cause a lot of panics once you break their barrier and buy you either a few seconds of reaction time or several free melee hits. Conversely though, it can be a little tough because you probably don't have many biotic upgrades yet, most of those being on Ilium.

Here's a video of the above techniques in action.

EDIT: One more big tip, don't forget your heavy weapons! It's easy to do in ME2 but they can be a life-saver. Nothing like taking out a pack of husks with one grenade or a couple of arc shots before they can come around to stunlock you out of cover.

[Morty]

I think they ought to scrap classes and just let people pick their own powers from ME4 forward, but I honestly doubt it'll happen. I'll be surprised if we don't see the old six classes in ME4.

[Yora]

The only really brutal part on Horizon was the two scions. The rest is tough, but not that difficult with patience.

I am not getting Thane and I'm at the section between the body falling from the ceiling and getting to the elevator. It's easily 50 enemies in a row with no pause for saving and even with the Tempest it's still a big pain in the ass. I think if I can get through that, I only have to get Samara before I get to the collector ship. There you get the vindicator pretty early and that may make things easier. On the other hand, the rest of the level is pretty tough and maybe I should try to get as many levels as I can before I try that.
I remember in ME3 you can vanguard with the Mattock and there's a pretty sweet SMG.

Not quite sure if I should keep working to suffer through this, or play this one on Hardcore and try Insanity again with Soldier.

[Jayngfet]

I think they ought to scrap classes and just let people pick their own powers from ME4 forward, but I honestly doubt it'll happen. I'll be surprised if we don't see the old six classes in ME4.

Everything really ought to be more freeform. I'd love to have Biotic Charge without being a Vanguard, or concussive shot without being a soldier.

Though I find freeform omnitools to be a higher priority. I'd really like an omnishield or omnibow in single player. Or possibly skip the guns entirely and make the engineer class a fully fledged green lantern type with tech armor-shield-bow-drone.

Though by that matter I'd like to eschew all guns except maybe a pistol as a "pure biotic" too. When you can throw projectiles with you mind at that kind of speed a gun becomes kind of redundant. Particularly since a biotic can arc their shots. A well placed throwing knife or six would be quite effective.

[Xondoure]

Freeform powers would mean they would have to reduce the synergy between certain powers to allow for players now being good at everything they want to be. While I wouldn't mind seeing some mix ups, the classes keystone abilities are too potent to be used in concert with one another. I would however be down for more universal powers (lets say anyone can learn warp or overload if they so choose,) but just not pure customization as that often leads to one or two good builds and everything else not being good enough.