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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Examples of LG heroes

    Following extended exposure to OotS, many people in my groups seemed to have developed aversions to the Lawful Good alignment as a whole, for fear of winding up having to act like Miko. This is gotten to a point where anyone who has LG written on their character sheet is pressured into changing to Neutral Good. This is kinda getting annoysome, so I've decided to compile a list of genuine likeable LG protagonists to prove my mates wrong. Here is what I can think of off the top of my head:

    Roy
    Durkon
    Ned Stark
    Jon Snow
    Most any Bruce Lee character
    Sean Connery as James Bond
    Obi-Wan Kenobi
    Shikamaru

    If you guys think of any, please post them.
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Examples of LG heroes

    Hinjo
    O Chul
    Lord Soon
    Superman
    Captain Marvel
    Captain America

    As for Miko...remind them that even OTHER PALADINS didn't like Miko. There's no reason why they should act like the only unlikeable Lawful Good character of the bunch. Hinjo and O Chul are pretty cool guys.

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    Default Re: Examples of LG heroes

    Batman!...sort of...
    you've seen the alignment chart picture...you know what I'm talking about.
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    Default Re: Examples of LG heroes

    - Optimus Prime
    - Sam Vimes
    - Michael Carpenter (Paladin. Straight-up.)
    Last edited by Alleran; 2014-05-21 at 11:37 PM.
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    I guess this forum is some kind of mystical afterlife for dnd nerds who die during internet discussions? All the greatest internet heroes argue here every day about physics and dnd, rise again when slain, and enjoy a dining hall which serves them unlimited quantities of heavenly food like ramen, soda, alcohol, and birthday cake.
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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Griffon

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    Default Re: Examples of LG heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by Alleran View Post
    - Michael Carpenter (Paladin. Straight-up.)
    Absolutely.

    - Sam Vimes
    I disagree on this one; I think Vimes is closer to LN, especially in the earlier books. He will straight-up arrest you if he feels the law requires it, although I guess you could argue that he looks for more reasons to do so if he's dealing with someone especially nasty like Carcer or Rust, and will likewise go blind if he feels the need. Carrot would definitely be a good match, though, especially since he almost fits the Stupid Good/Lawful Stupid stereotype, then routinely turns it on its head, along with whoever he's talking to at the time.

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    amused Re: Examples of LG heroes

    Darth Vader
    Sauron
    Voldemort
    The Joker
    Magneto
    Doctor Doom
    Lex Luthor
    Loki
    Hades
    Satan
    Shredder
    The Prophets of Truth, Mercy, and Regret
    The Terminator
    Death
    Tightanus
    Arthas
    Alduin
    The Enderdragon
    Kerrigan
    Diablo
    Everyone who wears an eyepatch

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    Last edited by Xalos; 2014-05-22 at 12:13 AM.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Examples of LG heroes

    Doraleous from the web-series Doraleous and Associates.

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    Default Re: Examples of LG heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by Turion View Post
    Absolutely.
    Of course, I'd also say that Sanya and Shiro feel a bit closer to NG than Michael. Ain't nobody who does a LG paladin better than Michael Carpenter. Textbook paladin, the good-hearted and humble knight in shining (kevlar-reinforced) armour wielding a great sword ablaze with holy fire.

    Murphy is probably LG as well, just not as good at it as Michael.

    Harry feels CG, but NG works as well.

    I disagree on this one; I think Vimes is closer to LN, especially in the earlier books. He will straight-up arrest you if he feels the law requires it, although I guess you could argue that he looks for more reasons to do so if he's dealing with someone especially nasty like Carcer or Rust, and will likewise go blind if he feels the need. Carrot would definitely be a good match, though, especially since he almost fits the Stupid Good/Lawful Stupid stereotype, then routinely turns it on its head, along with whoever he's talking to at the time.
    In the earlier books, I see Vimes as LN, but just barely and on the verge of dropping to TN. As they progress, he climbs his way back up to LG again. Like a paladin falling, except in reverse. Though he'll still be more Lawful than he is Good for the most part. Carrot strikes me as NG with very strong Lawful tendencies (I go back and forth on Carrot a bit).

    Who else:

    - Aang feels LG.
    - Black Lagoon... bwahahahaha. Rock is TN on a downhill slope, and that's as close as they get to good.
    - John Carter (books).
    - Josiah Bartlet.
    - Leia Organa.
    - Yugo (from Wakfu) is NG, but Tristepin is probably Stupid Good.
    - Jack (from Samurai Jack) is LG. Another knight on a white horse wielding a holy sword that can slay evil.
    - Davos Seaworth, the Onion Knight. LG nowadays, I think, and tries to keep his LN king from sliding down the morality slope.
    - John Sheridan.
    - Gideon from MtG.
    - Paragon Shepard, depending on choices.
    - Aokiji. Arguably.
    Last edited by Alleran; 2014-05-22 at 12:53 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slipperychicken View Post
    I guess this forum is some kind of mystical afterlife for dnd nerds who die during internet discussions? All the greatest internet heroes argue here every day about physics and dnd, rise again when slain, and enjoy a dining hall which serves them unlimited quantities of heavenly food like ramen, soda, alcohol, and birthday cake.
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    Default Re: Examples of LG heroes

    -Kenshin Himura from Rurouni Kenshin (often sharply contrasted with the LN Hajime Saito)
    -Erwin Smith from Attack on Titan is a good example of an LG interacting with an oppressive government.
    -Dot Pixis, also from Attack on Titan
    -Aragorn


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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: Examples of LG heroes

    Capatin Picard (Star Trek)
    Dale Cooper (Twin Peaks)
    Jet Black (Cowboy Bebop)
    Jin (Samurai Champloo)
    RoboCop
    Jim Gordon (Batman)

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    Default Re: Examples of LG heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by Alleran View Post
    Of course, I'd also say that Sanya and Shiro feel a bit closer to NG than Michael. Ain't nobody who does a LG paladin better than Michael Carpenter. Textbook paladin, the good-hearted and humble knight in shining (kevlar-reinforced) armour wielding a great sword ablaze with holy fire.

    Murphy is probably LG as well, just not as good at it as Michael.
    Don't forget Uriel. All the angels we've seen, actually.

    From David and Leigh Eddings' work, UL, Mandorallen, and Durnik (Belgariad), and Vanion and Bevier (Elenium) are solidly Lawful Good. In the alignments via examples thread RedMage125 said that Belgarion and Sparhawk are also LG. I peg them as NG, though if so they're still lawful-leaning.
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    Default Re: Examples of LG heroes

    From video games:
    Leon Belmont (Castlevania: Lament of Innocence)
    Gabriel Belmont (Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 1...until the end, anyways)
    Trevor Belmont (Castlevania: LoS Mirror of Fate)
    Mario and Luigi
    Miles "Tails" Powers (Sonic the Hedgehog)
    Mega Man (not familiar enough with X)
    Ryu and Chun Li (Street Fighter)
    Liu Kang, Raiden, Sonya Blade, Nightwolf (Mortal Kombat series)
    Janos Audron (Legacy of Kain series)
    Link (in most Legend of Zelda games)
    Yuna (Final Fantasy X, less so in X-2)
    Squall (Final Fantasy VIII, seems more LN at the beginning)


    From novels:
    Belgarion, Durnik, and Mandorallen(David Edding's Belgariad)
    Sparhawk and Vanion(David Edding's Elenium)
    Paul Atredies (before joining the Fremen)
    Bink (Piers Anthony's Xanth), as well as Trent (after book 1)
    Annabeth (Percy Jackson series)
    Hermione Granger (Harry Potter series)

    From TV/Movies/Anime:
    Agents Phil Coulson, Fitz and Simmons (Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.)
    Hale Zamora (Lost Girl)
    Charles Xavier (X-Men, explicitly included under movies, because the comic Xavier is shadier)
    Reed Richards and Ben Grimm (Fantastic Four)
    Vash the Stampede (Trigun)
    Tenchi Masaki and Aeka Masaki Jurai (Tenchi Muyo)
    Krillin, Gohan, and Android 16 (Dragonball Z), and I would say Vegeta's growth by the very end of the series results in a LG alignment.

    That's what I've got for now.

    EDIT: Jeff the Green beat me to a few, lol. Even called me out. Right on.
    Last edited by RedMage125; 2014-05-22 at 05:33 AM.
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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Examples of LG heroes

    Squall is still LN at the end of FF8, the only thing that changes is his priorities go from 'rules/complete mission' to 'Rinoa>rules/complete mission.' Rinoa being his new top priority doesn't make him suddenly good. Even as late as disc 3, his friends still need to talk him in to rescuing her. Even as late as disc 3, he still lets Esthar take her.

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    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: Examples of LG heroes

    You don't get much more Lawful Good than (1980's) Robocop.
    Last edited by atomicwaffle; 2014-05-22 at 09:39 AM.

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    MonkGuy

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    Default Re: Examples of LG heroes

    LG - Superman, Captain America, Daredevil, Daniel Jackson(SG-1), Captain John Sheradin(Babylon 5), Optimus Prime, Hermione Granger, Cpt. Lee "Apollo" Adama (Battlestar Galactica), Spock, Albus Dumbledore, Rick Grimes(Walking Dead), Dale(Walking Dead), Hank(Breaking Bad), Sara Walker(Chuck), Odo(DS9), Tvock(Voyager), Earl(My name is Earl), and Lenoard(Big Bang Theory).

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Melayl's Avatar

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    Default Re: Examples of LG heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by Thealtruistorc View Post
    Most any Bruce Lee character
    Sean Connery as James Bond
    I don't think I'd say these are LG. Good, yes, but not really Lawful. I'd go NG, myself.
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    Default Re: Examples of LG heroes

    Balian from the Kingdom of Heaven movie. If he's not the most LG paladin, he's at least a LG knight.

    Also, The Spirit, but I guess that's just traversing into NG.
    Last edited by ArqArturo; 2014-05-22 at 02:49 PM.
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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Examples of LG heroes

    Vimes and Carrot are both definitely Lawful Good. Yes, Vimes talks about everything he does in terms of the law... But he's very definitely concerned with The Law as it Should Be, not The Law as it Is. For instance, in Snuff, killing goblins isn't actually against any law that's written in the books... but Vimes still goes after the killers, because murder is murder, no matter what the law says. He says that he serves the law above all else, but when he says "the law", he implicitly means "good".

    Carrot is even less ambiguous. Remember, he's the one who was quoting the arcane minutiae of the regulations to the rest of the force, right from the day he joined, and he follows all of the dwarven traditions scrupulously.

    Vimes and Carrot are also excellent examples because, despite being the same alignment, working in the same context, and being written by the same author, they still have very different personalities. Alignment is a tool, not a straightjacket, and there are a great many valid ways to play each alignment.
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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Examples of LG heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by Xalos View Post
    Darth Vader
    Sauron
    Voldemort
    The Joker
    Magneto
    Doctor Doom
    Lex Luthor
    Loki
    Hades
    Satan
    Shredder
    The Prophets of Truth, Mercy, and Regret
    The Terminator
    Death
    Tightanus
    Arthas
    Alduin
    The Enderdragon
    Kerrigan
    Diablo
    Everyone who wears an eyepatch

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    He said LG not LE, even then I would have to disagree with several of these being LE, the joker is most definitely CE.

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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Examples of LG heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by RedMage125 View Post
    Paul Atredies (before joining the Fremen)

    Vash the Stampede (Trigun)
    Paul is actually Neutral Good or Chaotic Good. He wasn't one for following the rules, demonstrated in his fight with Gurney Halleck, and I would say his father Leto fit into LG more than Paul ever did.

    Vash always came across as being Neutral Good or Chaotic Good. He shows a strong dislike or ignorance of the law and following it. I don't think of any real time that I recall he followed the Law, instead of what he felt was right. That's definitely a Chaotic Attitude.

    Quote Originally Posted by jedipotter View Post
    LG Odo(DS9)
    Tvock or Tyvock should be Tuvok.

    Odo was more LN to me than LG. He was far more interested in the proper carrying out of the law than about helping those around him. Sisko and Kira might have rubbed off on him some, but more of Garak rubbed off onto him then them.

    I would suggest that Worf is LG, with a smattering of NG in there and LN as well. He was always a stand up decent guy with generally honorable conduct.

    Quote Originally Posted by HammeredWharf View Post
    Jet Black (Cowboy Bebop)
    Curious, I always thought that Jet was more LN than LG. He accepts living with Spike and Faye quickly, both of whom are Neutral along one line. Spike is Neutral good at best, mostly Neutral Evil or more likely Chaotic Neutral. Faye was strongly Chaotic Neutral with a mix of Chaotic good and Chaotic evil/Neutral Evil at times.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: Examples of LG heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by russdm View Post
    Vash always came across as being Neutral Good or Chaotic Good. He shows a strong dislike or ignorance of the law and following it. I don't think of any real time that I recall he followed the Law, instead of what he felt was right. That's definitely a Chaotic Attitude.
    Vash lives in the sci-fi equivalent of the Wild West, where law is absent in most places and inefficient in others. In his case, following the law would be stupid. However, he has a very strict moral code that he follows no matter what. He's also extremely loyal even to acquaintances and has a clear goal in his life. I could see him being LG, although NG is quite reasonable, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by russdm View Post
    Curious, I always thought that Jet was more LN than LG. He accepts living with Spike and Faye quickly, both of whom are Neutral along one line. Spike is Neutral good at best, mostly Neutral Evil or more likely Chaotic Neutral. Faye was strongly Chaotic Neutral with a mix of Chaotic good and Chaotic evil/Neutral Evil at times.
    Being good is pretty hard in the Bebop universe, but Jet at least comes pretty close to it. He's genuinely interested in helping people and used to be an exceptionally good cop. I don't see how him being friends with a bunch of non-good people would change things, considering they're not that bad and he usually tries to steer them towards doing the right things.

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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Examples of LG heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by HammeredWharf View Post
    Vash lives in the sci-fi equivalent of the Wild West, where law is absent in most places and inefficient in others. In his case, following the law would be stupid. However, he has a very strict moral code that he follows no matter what. He's also extremely loyal even to acquaintances and has a clear goal in his life. I could see him being LG, although NG is quite reasonable, too.
    Yeah, but I feel more like he is NG or CG with Meryl and Millie being LG. They follow him around and follow the orders of their boss and do what they do because of it. Vash does a lot of what he does because he either wants to or because of his personal code of conduct.

    Chaotic types can have their own codes they follow, they just don't pay attention to others authority at all or always follow their own code. At least that is something I have thought.
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    Default Re: Examples of LG heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by russdm View Post
    Paul is actually Neutral Good or Chaotic Good. He wasn't one for following the rules, demonstrated in his fight with Gurney Halleck, and I would say his father Leto fit into LG more than Paul ever did.

    Vash always came across as being Neutral Good or Chaotic Good. He shows a strong dislike or ignorance of the law and following it. I don't think of any real time that I recall he followed the Law, instead of what he felt was right. That's definitely a Chaotic Attitude.
    I did specify BEFORE joining the Fremen, when yes, Paul's attitudes and beliefs were largely shaped by his father. I didn't mention his father because he was practically an NPC.

    And Vash has been responded to nicely. Vash sticks to his code (really Rem's code) strictly, and tries to spread the message of love and peace wherever he goes. He's very unwavering on his code, and when Legato forces his hand, he falls into a deep depression. CG types may follow a code, but they also tend to be more flexible as the situation demands.
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    Default Re: Examples of LG heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by ArqArturo View Post
    Balian from the Kingdom of Heaven movie. If he's not the most LG paladin, he's at least a LG knight.
    Balian's a good example of how to play a paladin when the governing forces are corrupt. I'd argue that Sallahudin in the movie is likely LG too, though it's a bit ambiguous since he doesn't get much screen time.
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    Default Re: Examples of LG heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by grarrrg View Post
    Batman!...sort of...
    you've seen the alignment chart picture...you know what I'm talking about.
    batman is not LG

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    Quote Originally Posted by sideswipe View Post
    batman is not LG
    The only official WotC sourcebook that mentions examples like this explicitly disagrees with you.

    Citing characters from non-D&D sources as belonging to D&D alignments has a flaw in it from the get-go. And that is, that D&D alignment only works in a D&D world with absolute values of Good/Evil/Law/Chaos as objective, universe-shaping cosmic forces.

    That said, any attempt to categorize ANY non-D&D character in a D&D alignment sort of assumes "if this person were in an objective alignment universe, like D&D". That should be a given.

    And the Complete Scoundrel EXPLICITLY says Batman, were he to exist in a D&D world, would be LG.

    So...not to be rude, but printed official sources say you are incorrect, sir.
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    Default Re: Examples of LG heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by RedMage125 View Post
    The only official WotC sourcebook that mentions examples like this explicitly disagrees with you.

    Citing characters from non-D&D sources as belonging to D&D alignments has a flaw in it from the get-go. And that is, that D&D alignment only works in a D&D world with absolute values of Good/Evil/Law/Chaos as objective, universe-shaping cosmic forces.

    That said, any attempt to categorize ANY non-D&D character in a D&D alignment sort of assumes "if this person were in an objective alignment universe, like D&D". That should be a given.

    And the Complete Scoundrel EXPLICITLY says Batman, were he to exist in a D&D world, would be LG.

    So...not to be rude, but printed official sources say you are incorrect, sir.
    well the view of batman is very different if you analyse him. he disregards all rules and consequences for any of his actions upon anything. he always breaks laws to do what is correct and usually destroys 100's of thousands of property paid for by the tax payers to do so.
    in most cases although he catches a criminal he causes more damage in net loss to the taxpayers then he saves.

    if you fully analyse most fictional characters you don't always end up with the bright and shining paragon of good they are supposed to be.

    i will agree with the game designers that the idea of batman himself is LG but
    1. a vigilante is explicitly chaotic
    2. he has no regard for any law or restrictions on what he can do in the pursuit of good.
    3. if the law enforcements are doing anything that could inhibit his progress of the pursuit of the criminal he can and will neutralise them so that he himself can bring the criminal to justice. this is stopping the people who have been appointed to the crime from doing their job and sometimes even hurting them. doing anything to pursue justice himself for the disregard of others.

    these reasons are why batman is chaotic good. but since he has his own laws this balances it out as NG

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Troll in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Examples of LG heroes

    Alright, for the umpteenth time:
    LAWFUL ALIGNMENT DOES NOT STRICTLY MEAN FOLLOWING ACTUAL LAWS

    3.5 and Pathfinder:
    Lawful characters tell the truth, keep their word, respect authority, honor tradition, and judge those who fall short of their duties...
    Law implies honor, trustworthiness, obedience to authority, and reliability. On the downside, lawfulness can include closed-mindedness, reactionary adherence to tradition, self-righteousness, and a lack of adaptability.
    Lawful should have been named "Order" or something similar.
    "Lawful" is more following a personal code of conduct. Things that you might do, and things that you will never do.
    Yes, following 'actual laws' is more in line with "lawful" people than "chaotic" people, but that does NOT mean "Lawful" _always_ obey the law, and chaotic _always_ disobey.

    Quote Originally Posted by russdm View Post
    Paul is actually Neutral Good or Chaotic Good. He wasn't one for following the rules...
    Paul, or anyone with Bene Gesserit training is much more likely to fall in line with "Law" then they are chaotic. This is due to the VERY strict training/code/etc...that they follow.

    Batman is "lawful" because he has his own strict personal code and honor. One example is that he _never_ kills. This is NOT negotiable.

    Heck, I've said it before and I'll say it again, freaking RORSCHACH from freaking Watchman has a decent argument for Lawful.
    Let's pull up the description again, and I'll underline the important bits:
    Lawful characters tell the truth, keep their word, respect authority, honor tradition, and judge those who fall short of their duties...
    Law implies honor, trustworthiness, obedience to authority, and reliability. On the downside, lawfulness can include closed-mindedness, reactionary adherence to tradition, self-righteousness, and a lack of adaptability.
    Never compromise. Not even in the face of Armageddon.

    Quote Originally Posted by sideswipe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by grarrrg View Post
    Batman!...sort of...
    you've seen the alignment chart picture...you know what I'm talking about.
    batman is not LG
    You will note that I did say "Batman!...sort of..."
    And in case you completely missed the ninja text, here is a link to what I am referring, it should clear up any remaining misunderstandings.
    (in case the link should not work, just google "batman alignment" in images)
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  29. - Top - End - #29
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    Default Re: Examples of LG heroes

    My friend is currently playing a paladin. It's way outside his normal zone. I told him to try to channel Santa Claus, Mr. Rogers, and Kermit the Frog. Until someone refuses to try to get off the naughty list. Then become Optimus Prime.

  30. - Top - End - #30
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    Default Re: Examples of LG heroes

    Richard from the Sword of Truth series (only read the first book, but in Wizard's First Rule he was).

    Kvothe definitely isn't lawful good, but only because the laws in that universe are particularly crappy. Probably CG, then.

    Will Smith (and the others, I guess) from Men in Black.

    Most characters from Fire Emblem.

    Hm. Pokemon Trainers that aren't team Rocket? I don't really know much about their 'verse, but it seems like they're all good kids.

    Trees: The greatest weapon in 3.5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam K View Post
    Sun Tzu never had tier problems. If he had to deal with D&D, the art of war would read "Full casters or GTFO".

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