Erfworld narrative style

[motorfirebox]

this isn't something i normally expect from a webcomic, but i really like the way Erfworld is written. i'm not talking about the events that occur, i'm talking about how those events are portrayed. it really exemplifies the principle of "show, don't tell", which a lot of fantasy work really falls short of. there hasn't been a single "as you know" moment in the comic--the plot and world are explored via events that are actually necessary to the story, rather than extraneous conversations or, by and large, narrative voiceovers.

[Danjo]

I can agree with that. The story is moved forward primarily by the art, not by banter.

[pclips]

Thanks, that's been something we've tried hard to do. Exposition is the the big challenge of any kind of story like this, where worldbuilding is such a major element. We don't have the luxury of taking three pages of text to describe the history of one mountain, like Tolkien might have.

But we do have Jamie's art, which can be a powerful channel of information which a traditional novelist doesn't have. It'd be bad storytelling for me not to apply it as much as I can.

But still, it has its limits, so we're exploring other ways of doing exposition besides the dreaded "As you know..." We used Hamstard.com as a nonlinear story dimension, for instance, to tell parts of the story without disrupting the flow of the comic.

You'll be seeing a new development along those lines, pretty soon.

[agentx42]

The artwork is terrific, Rob. Still, you know as well as anybody that the story is the real key. Always, always, always. OotS uses stick figures, fer cryin' out loud, and a loyal army keeps coming back three times a week to find out what happens next.

Unlike OotS, where every page is usually a self-contained mini-story as well as part of a narrative, Erfworld is pure narrative. That's why I can't fairly pass judgement until the whole thing is finished. I'm content to see where it goes.

I get tickled at a lot of the comments on this board, trying to analyze a single page at a time. If the internet existed in Melville's day, would people pick up a copy of Moby ****, read only the first sentence and start a discussion group about what he meant by "Call me Ishmael"?

I think I just got a nosebleed visualizing that...

[TinSoldier]

Thanks, that's been something we've tried hard to do. Exposition is the the big challenge of any kind of story like this, where worldbuilding is such a major element. We don't have the luxury of taking three pages of text to describe the history of one mountain, like Tolkien might have.

Yeah, that's the big challenge isn't it? My favorite comic (see sig) has problems with exposition sometimes (sorry, Thunt!) but it is difficult to see how it can be done better at times.

But we do have Jamie's art, which can be a powerful channel of information which a traditional novelist doesn't have. It'd be bad storytelling for me not to apply it as much as I can.

Oh, yeah. The art does a very good job and tells us at least half of the story with every page. Kudos to you guys!

But still, it has its limits, so we're exploring other ways of doing exposition besides the dreaded "As you know..." We used Hamstard.com as a nonlinear story dimension, for instance, to tell parts of the story without disrupting the flow of the comic.

You'll be seeing a new development along those lines, pretty soon.

I really do love the Hamstard.com bit. While it has been done before I think you guys have created one of the best examples of that technique.

[Sisqui]

But we do have Jamie's art, which can be a powerful channel of information which a traditional novelist doesn't have.

And ambiguity, when it suits you

[motorfirebox]

But we do have Jamie's art, which can be a powerful channel of information which a traditional novelist doesn't have. It'd be bad storytelling for me not to apply it as much as I can.

one thing i really like is the dichotomy created by having a world filled with teddy bears and marshmallows which get ripped apart in brutal combat. they don't know they're cute and cuddly, and the narrative style pretends it doesn't know, either. the deadpan treatment of this intentional white elephant is deeply funny.

[Deuseldorf]

You don't really need to explain the history or background of the story as long as you have rules and you follow them. As long as you keep consistent most people don't need to know every detail about story. If you have to go to another site to find background so everything makes sense then that makes the story less attractive.

I love the story so far. Keep up the good work.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

You'll be seeing a new development along those lines, pretty soon.

Gee, and I have enough trouble getting to sleep as it is.

Can't wait to see that one. Whatever it is.

[Silverlocke980]

Agreed. Each page tells its own story in the way people look and what they say, giving everything much greater depth.

Erfworld FTW!

[benthehater]

The artwork is terrific, Rob. Still, you know as well as anybody that the story is the real key. Always, always, always. OotS uses stick figures, fer cryin' out loud, and a loyal army keeps coming back three times a week to find out what happens next.

Unlike OotS, where every page is usually a self-contained mini-story as well as part of a narrative, Erfworld is pure narrative. That's why I can't fairly pass judgement until the whole thing is finished. I'm content to see where it goes.

I get tickled at a lot of the comments on this board, trying to analyze a single page at a time. If the internet existed in Melville's day, would people pick up a copy of Moby ****, read only the first sentence and start a discussion group about what he meant by "Call me Ishmael"?

I think I just got a nosebleed visualizing that...

It wouldn't work for Melville, no, but that's exactly how Charles Dickens wrote. Chapters of all his known works were serialized, published in sequence.
It worked well. People discussed intently what might happen next while eagerly awaiting the next installment. It's what's happening here, and it continues to happen in all sorts of mediums. The entire "Water Cooler Association" that HBO did for a while referenced the fact that after one of their series on Sunday Night, Monday morning, the fans of the show had to talk about it. The elements, the details, the nuances, the story arc, the artwork, all these things are worth discussing, not because everybody wants to be right, but because discussion enhances the enjoyment of the material. Through discussion, you share and experience other people's points of view on the material you've experienced in common.

[happyturtle]

It's probably more similar to making a movie than writing a book. You can't insert lines to tell us what Parson is thinking. You have to show us on his face. But then you have the advantage of being able to give us a view of a scene without having to break the flow of the story to describe how a cloth golem looks.

I've always preferred books to movies, but I think I could become a fan of graphic novels.

[agentx42]

It wouldn't work for Melville, no, but that's exactly how Charles Dickens wrote. Chapters of all his known works were serialized, published in sequence.

This is true. My old English Lit teacher opined this may have been where the (untrue) myth of him getting paid by the word came from.

But Gobwin Knob isn't published chapter-by-chapter. If it were, the Dickens comparison would be more apt. I'd never have written my Melville joke if that were the case. My comment stems from the fact that posters here - myself included - tend to overanalyze each single page, panel-by-panel, line-by-line. Imagine one page of Gobwin Knob as one paragraph of "The Old Curiosity Shop" and hopefully my attempt at humor becomes clearer. Plus, you'd be waiting a while to find out if Little Nell kicked the bucket.

Anyway, the two points of my original post are that 1) OotS works as both a three-a-week installment and a larger narrative, but the same doesn't apply to Gobwin Knob because Balder's writing style works best as a whole, and 2) it's nice that Jami's artwork complement Rob's storytelling beautifully, but all the pretty artwork in the world doesn't mean a thing if the story is crap. Good artwork can only cover bad writing for a short period; good writing will always shine though any kind of artwork. So, don't let the artwork be a crutch for slacking on the writing. That's it.

The elements, the details, the nuances, the story arc, the artwork, all these things are worth discussing, not because everybody wants to be right, but because discussion enhances the enjoyment of the material. Through discussion, you share and experience other people's points of view on the material you've experienced in common.

Oh, brother. I don't recall saying or even implying they weren't worth discussing.

[benthehater]

Oh good. I'm glad we're not that far off in our approach.

Where I'm coming from is: the episodic content that we're used to requires a kind payoff at the end of every episode, while the overall arc is slowly built toward. It's how most comics are written, it's how most television shows are too.

But comics and television shows don't have to be like that. By making the payoff something that would happen at the end of the "season" every other aspect of the content can freely build toward that singular payoff. You can develop characters more than otherwise, you can let the very difficult problems go unresolved for as long as necessary, you can let the characters learn, you can let them change, you can tell your story. I think the long payoff, particularly since we get the episodic stuff so much more often, actually gives us a more rewarding experience. And yeah, the experience doesn't pay off until the end arrives, but in this situation, where each installment is delivered with the delay between is savored and devoured, nothing gets skimmed or glossed over.

I'll confess that I'd be happier to have the Erfworld Graphic Novel with the entire story from beginning to end in my hand right now rather than read it serialized. But just the same, that experience would be different than this one now. And maybe, each individual moment might not be appreciated as much as they currently are.

Yeah, we look at it with an obsession. But I can't feel bad about that. An artist (written and visual) wants their work to be looked at. "Skimming the artwork to read the next line of dialogue while ignoring the subtext to advance the story to the end, okay the ends here, that was pretty cool I guess, what should I read next?" "I hate the smell of apathy in the morning. Smells like failure." All the little details, the nuances, are put in there to be noticed. Even the references are there to reward the people who look at it and wonder about where something came from.

I am prepared to go as far as to say that this piece of work is created with the kind of people who love to analyse, who love to LOOK, in mind. There's just so much to find there, and all of it matters at least a little, and it matters now, and it'll matter more in the context of the other things that will be shown to us soon, and at the end it'll matter a lot.

And yeah, it requires a frustrating amount of mental discipline and maturity to not shout "are we there yet?!?"

But the journey is a very important part of the trip.