Civ 5: GMR part 4 - Needs salt!

[thirsting]

Meh, I would have suggested a standard size map instead, due to the whole "number of religions dependent on map size" thing. Oh well.

Aw, didn't know that. Stricter restriction on number of religions would indeed have been more ..er.. suspenseful. At least there's lots of room to expand now...

Social policies and unit promotions CAN be delayed, by the way. Otherwise standard rules, and all victory conditions enabled! Hopefully I did remember to set the map type to Pangaea again (screwed up number of players and order of players, so had to redo the start a couple of times).

Spoiler: For spectators - Byzantine empress adresses her subjects

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Seacoast, a river, fertile grasslands. Distant mountain range just barely visible above horizon. Scouts report two kinds of stone nearby to build temples with. This is where we build a new, better home.

But what is this? Commoners went and named MY new city without MY permission, even before we were properly settled down. This will not stand. Renaming ceremony will be held soon.

[Mx.Silver]

[stuff]

Can I ask that you don't use that colour for your spectator updates? It makes them quite hard to read.

[Driderman]

To spectators:

Spoiler

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My initial area has 3 sugar (in marsh ) and some incense 2 tiles away. The terrain is a bit of a mashup of marsh, jungle, plains and some desert with the aforementioned incense and an oasis, to the north. Quite uncharacteristically, I've chosen to spend my first turn moving my settler rather than settling immediately, following the river northwest to settle next to the oasis and the desert tiles (mostly hills) and moving towards some plains and forest, away from the marshes. This also means that I won't actually have any luxuries within my first "culture ring" of the city, hopefully it won't be a decision I regret later.
Techwise, I haven't made any choices yet but I will, probably not surprisingly, be going straight for pottery so as to build my special building as soon as possible and take full advantage of my Civ.

[OrcusMcP]

Ahmad al-Mansur climbed to the top of the hill to look west, and before him lay bountiful seas. Already he was hearing reports of valuable ruins in the eastern desert, and the silk forest of the southern river valley would keep his people warm in winter and cool in summer. This was the spot. This would be the seat of a mighty mercantile people, a great city at the centre of a vast empire, this would be Marrakesh.

Spoiler: Spectators!!

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While I would normally try to settle beside a river, I'm a sucker for chokepoints. Plus, by the river would be surrounded by hills which is not good defensive thinking. This way I have access to the sea from north and south, good defensive hills, and lots of good fertile land in which to expand.

[banthesun]

Hey Driderman, what colour are you using (I don't want to crack open that spoiler and try to only look at the colour ). If you're not using the goldenrod, I might take that instead of the bright green.

[Mx.Silver]

Hey Driderman, what colour are you using (I don't want to crack open that spoiler and try to only look at the colour ).

He's sticking with black, from the looks of it.

[Wookieetank]

MMM delicious salt. Looking forward to more shennanigans!

[Closet_Skeleton]

He's sticking with black, from the looks of it.

I'm not using any colour in spoiler boxes and from my ability to glance at things and not read them I don't think at least one other person is either.

[Driderman]

Unless it's somehow very important, I don't really want to bother with using any color other than regular black for my postings.

[thirsting]

Yep, I've had doubts about that colour thing working all this time. Just an idea. But it would be nice if there was some indicator which country you are leading, in your posts. A signature at the end of post, for example. I don't mean the forum signature, but like a nation leader signing their missive.

Just something for everyone to easily notice which nation you represent, which ever way you go about it. How's that?


Editing this here. Had no time to add starting spot last time:

Spoiler: For spectators

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Byzantines, friends. I will speak shortly. Feast has been abundant. Generous gifts have been given. Empress has given our city a name, Marble Wharf. Use it proudly. Use it, as if there never was any other name. As there never was. Now drink, and eat!

[banthesun]

India, Turn 1

Ventilation has failed in sectors 4 and 13 again. Food shortages continue through sectors 5, 9, and 16. Repairs were unsuccessful.

We've been raised by machines, and now that they're failing no one knows what to do. All the scientific discoveries of our ancestors are lost, the data corruption is too severe for even our brightest scolars to recover. The council has decided we can put it off no longer, we must begin our plans to reclaim the surface.

A group of our strongest and bravest citizens will be sent to the surface with only the most basic knowledge to ensure their survival. Despite the corruption of the main records, the researchers have been able to piece together a basic outline of our history, and the things we discovered along the way. The hope is that by starting at square one we will be able to re-engineer all the lost technologies from scratch, though failing that, establishing a safe haven on the surface would at least allow for the continued survival of our people.

For all we know, we might be the only survivors left. The fate of humanity may well rest on our shoulders, and we do not intend to let them down. Wish me luck, we're departing.

Spoiler: For Spectators

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So, here's my starting spot; marble, truffles, a cow, and a large looking lake. Not exactly what I was hoping for, especially with all that jungle I'll have to clear to make farms around the lake, but I couldn't see anything better and I freak out if I take more than a turn to settle my first city. At least we're on a hill for that early defensive bonus.

[Luzahn]

Rome:

Today is a great day, my people! By the grace of the gods, the glory of Rome has survived the onslaughts of the foul barbarian hordes.

The rivers once again teem with fish and the plains with game. We are prepared, now, to regain contact with our lost empire. The light of Rome will be brought into the hinterlands, and all the world will be united under our banner.

Augusus Caesar

Spoiler: To the Spectators:

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I've spent one turn getting into a better position, but the current start seems to be a good one. Plenty of salt tiles and plains for production boosts, and some wheat for early growth. Liberty policies will be the first choice, I want to snatch up a lot of early land and go wide.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Exploring to the north, we came across a burning settlement at the foot of a mountain. We agreed to take the survivors in, though we had not much food for them.

The barbarians that raided the settlement are not far from here. We can take them on!

-Darius of Persia 2820 BC

[OrcusMcP]

"My Sultan, Lord of Morocco and Servant of the Most High, we have not yet found further settlements along the desert coast, and lack the resources to press further inland. We will continue North.
However, having found an ancient set of maps at an abandoned trading camp, we know that a deep forest with many rivers lie to the east. No mention of other settlements, but if it was mapped then there must be trade routes along the rivers. I humbly recommend sending a dedicated commission to map these riverlands further.

With all respect,

-Ibn Khaldun, Captain, 1st Heavy Infantry"

[banthesun]

Quick question, does GMR automatically automate your units? This is the second turn in a row I've had my units start the turn by auto exploring, despite never selecting it, and deliberately making sure they weren't set to auto explore at the end of last turn.

[thirsting]

Pretty sure it should not do that. If you try to make your units walk further away than what their movement speed allows, then they make the rest of the way the next turn. Can't think of any other reason for autonomous movement... hopefully it is just that and not a persisting glitch.

Did you push the cancel action button already? Telling them to "move" to the exact same hex where they currently stand should stop them as well.

[banthesun]

Yup, pushed cancel at the end of last turn and at the end of this one. So far they've gone exactly where I would have moved them, but hopefully it doesn't continue. I can only imagine what it would be like to have a full military wandering around doing whatever it likes and ignoring orders.

[Dhavaer]

Even if GMR did automate your units, shouldn't they do the auto-move at the end of your turn? That's how it works for me.

[Driderman]

GMR shouldn't do anything with your troops that you haven't told it to, as far as I know. And yes, automated units move at the end of your turn.

[banthesun]

Normally planned movement happens at the end of my turns (haven't tried it with GMR, but that shouldn't change anything), but auto explore has always executed at the start of my turns for me. Perhaps there's a glitch in my version of the game or something.

[Driderman]

Normally planned movement happens at the end of my turns (haven't tried it with GMR, but that shouldn't change anything), but auto explore has always executed at the start of my turns for me. Perhaps there's a glitch in my version of the game or something.

I'm going to go with an empathetic "shrug" here. I really don't know.

[thirsting]

Just tested hot seat game and auto-exploration. Yes, they move right at the start of the turn. Tried to manually give them orders to move, after they had been on auto-exploration for a while, and it made them drop out of the auto-mode; They just moved to where I told them on the subsequent turn, and stopped waiting for instructions.

You could try that on your next turn. Instead of trying to cancel, see if your units obey you at all if you tell them to move. Can't see the result until a turn after that, of course.

Asked help in GMR forums, too.

Edit: Tazzik's post from above link seems like it could be helpful! Try changing your in-game password at GMR site to something which does not contain "e"?

[OrcusMcP]

Point of order:

Though I don't think anyone has met each other yet, seeing the final epic breakdown into nuclear fire of the first GMR game in the forum leads me to consider whether we might want to have a protocol for.....not iron-clad agreements, but at least some kind of mutual respect.

While I'm not suggesting that you can't scheme or backstab or do any kind of dirty dealing, that's supposed to be part of the fun after all, we should be able to make treaties that actually mean something.

I propose the "Illuminati" rule, so called because I am lifting it completely from the Illuminati baordgame. Plus, considering we are sort of playing as mythical Gods/kings in the mountain/national zeitgeists/etc it seems thematically appropriate.

1) Any agreements that take effect immediately are generally handled by the game engine and can't be reneged upon, but it's not uncommon for people to work out trade deals ahead of their turns. Thus, if two players agree on a trade, then when it comes up in the game it must be proposed and agreed as written in order to avoid wasting time.

2) Any agreements that have a delayed effect (I give you something now, you give me something in return later) must be honoured if the initial price is delivered. Whether its buying votes, negotiating treaties or whatever.

3) Any agreements that are theoretical/conditional/only apply in hypotheticals are worth the paper they are printed on. That is, nothing.

[Driderman]

This is probably a good idea. I know I certainly feel ready to "flip the board" in the other game

[banthesun]

Edit: Tazzik's post from above link seems like it could be helpful! Try changing your in-game password at GMR site to something which does not contain "e"?

This solved it, thanks.

I'm not fussed about whether we set rules of interaction or just allow backstabbing, so I'll just go with what everyone else wants out of the game.

[thirsting]

This solved it, thanks.

Excellent!

...

Luzahn, if you get a chance internet access -wise, maybe consider vacation mode if you are still unable to do your turns?

[Mx.Silver]

Backstabbing makes for a more interesting game to watch...

[Driderman]

I'm all for backstabbing, but we should probably codify the rules a bit. Like, for example, "Anything not put 'in print' on the forum officially isn't the final version of the deal."
I can't help but approach Civ as I would any boardgame, since it's so similiar. That includes dealing with one rival to snatch a win from another, but if I do so I expect people to be fair about it.

The situation that sparked this entire debate, to me at least came off pretty much like this:

Two people, looking at a complex strategic position in the endgame of a long boardgame

Player 1: "Okay, so we need to contain Player 3 as soon as possible, or he'll win. We both know we're both contenders to win as well, but if we help each to stop him from winning now it'll improve our odds of doing so later".

Player 2: "Alright, since I'm his ally I can't help directly, but I'll hold back on assisting him once the war starts".

Player 1: "Great, then I attack". Attacks Player 3.

Player 2: "Sucker!" Immediately attacks Player 1.

Player 3: "SCIENCE!"

While I'm sure Closet Skeleton didn't intend to be a jerk about, it came off as a rather jerk player move to me. Mostly my own fault since I thought our agreement was "valid", while he obviously thought differently.
Anyway, the three rules as suggested by Thirsting, with the addendum that if it's not written on the forum, it's not binding, should probably be fine for setting a framework.

[OrcusMcP]

Anyway, the three rules as suggested by Thirsting, with the addendum that if it's not written on the forum, it's not binding, should probably be fine for setting a framework.

I didn't realize my name had changed Late-game boardgames are almost always tricksy beasts of backstabbing and careful negotiations anyway, hence why I took the rules from Illuminati (though slightly modified) where this happens ALL THE TIME.

But yeah, anything not "in print" on the forum should not be binding in anyway.

Backstabbing makes for a more interesting game to watch...

I agree, but there's backstabbing and then there's backstabbing. Realising that you are Kingmaker means you should simultaneously be less public about your dealings, but more public about your decisions. It's more dramatic that way.

[Driderman]

Ah, I was sure it was Thirsting who posted said rules. My point still stands