Dresden Codak: As beautiful as it is slow to update

[Qwertystop]

Yeah, I didn't get the impression that Kim knew Vonnie before moving to Nephilopolis.

[HandofShadows]

Kim has not changed her arm, legs, or eye since she met Vonnie. And I wonder if Vonnie would consider the comparison unequal.

Vonnie is a long time friend of Kim's and knew her long before she had to get prostheses. So it is in no way unequal. (Vonne is Ron Awning's sister. We saw Ron in the early part of the series)

[Qwertystop]

Vonnie is a long time friend of Kim's and knew her long before she had to get prostheses. So it is in no way unequal. (Vonne is Ron Awning's sister. We saw Ron in the early part of the series)

Nope. Not closely, anyway - a nickname was a major milestone, remember?

Just because Kim knows Ron doesn't mean she knows his sister who lives in another city.

[Lethologica]

Vonnie is a long time friend of Kim's and knew her long before she had to get prostheses. So it is in no way unequal. (Vonne is Ron Awning's sister. We saw Ron in the early part of the series)

Relationships are not transitive. Kim <friends> Ron + Ron <siblings> Vonnie =/= Kim <friends> Vonnie. Vonnie has never shown up before, Kim has never been to the city where Vonnie lives, and Vonnie didn't know to call her Kim. All in all, there is zero evidence to support the claim that Vonnie is a longtime friend of Kim's. More to the point, there has been no opportunity for Vonnie to react to Kim having new prostheses.

All of which is not to say that Vonnie will definitely treat Kim like a Ship of Theseus. Humans are good at compartmentalizing their beliefs. Nephilim probably are, too.

[Fralex]

Kim and Vonnie became friends at the beginning of Dark Science. Otherwise she'd already be officially registered as a Chum and wouldn't have needed the fist-bump verification!

[eschmenk]

Vonnie has never shown up before, Kim has never been to the city where Vonnie lives, and Vonnie didn't know to call her Kim. All in all, there is zero evidence to support the claim that Vonnie is a longtime friend of Kim's.

Actually, Ron, Vonnie and Kim were all together in this comic: http://dresdencodak.com/2010/02/09/the-process/.

That said, I don't think they were friends.

[eschmenk]

It occurs to me that Vonnie's answer to the Ship of Theseus test is exactly the opposite of the cat's. As far as Vonnie is concerned, Kim is a new Kim every time she gets a new prosthetic. For that matter, what will she think when Kim goes full cyborg?

(Of course, bodies are replacing parts of themselves all the time, so in that sense Vonnie should have that reaction to everyone.)

Why don't you think the prosthetics correspond to the bristles? Vonnie said that replacing them didn't change the broom. If I had to choose, I would say that the person's torso corresponded to the handle, and everything else corresponded to the bristles (given that even heads were sometimes replaced). If that's correct, then Vonnie would think that everything but the torso could be replaced, and it would still be the same person.

[Qwertystop]

Why don't you think the prosthetics correspond to the bristles? Vonnie said that replacing them didn't change the broom. If I had to choose, I would say that the person's torso corresponded to the handle, and everything else corresponded to the bristles (given that even heads were sometimes replaced). If that's correct, then Vonnie would think that everything but the torso could be replaced, and it would still be the same person.

No, she said that it stopped being the original broom at the first replacement. She never said whether replacing the bristles would make it count as a third new broom.

[Lethologica]

Actually, Ron, Vonnie and Kim were all together in this comic: http://dresdencodak.com/2010/02/09/the-process/.

That said, I don't think they were friends.

Right, forgot about that.

Why don't you think the prosthetics correspond to the bristles? Vonnie said that replacing them didn't change the broom. If I had to choose, I would say that the person's torso corresponded to the handle, and everything else corresponded to the bristles (given that even heads were sometimes replaced). If that's correct, then Vonnie would think that everything but the torso could be replaced, and it would still be the same person.

As per Qwertystop. Vonnie said when the broom stopped being the original broom. She didn't say anything about the subsequent change.

[eschmenk]

No, she said that it stopped being the original broom at the first replacement. She never said whether replacing the bristles would make it count as a third new broom.

OK. Good point. I wonder what she would have given as the answer if the bristles were replaced first and the handle second.

[HandofShadows]

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Well, that was fast. Already going down for the conversion. And someone is bad at poker.

[Simius]

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I wonder what the deal is with Asmodea. From the naming scheme it's clear that she is one of the Dark Scientists, but her motivations are pretty mysterious. And apparently she is good at poker...

[Mith]

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What do people think about the final transformation?

[HandofShadows]

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What do people think about the final transformation?

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Muscular. Odd that she left her left arm artificial looking. Making a statement maybe? Also left the white streak in her hair, eyes different color?

[-D-]

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What do people think about the final transformation?

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Inefficient. Why settle for humanoid shape, when there so many other superior forms you can take.

[Lethologica]

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Inefficient. Why settle for humanoid shape, when there so many other superior forms you can take.

There's one task that the humanoid shape is uniquely effective at performing: appealing to other humans.

[Qwertystop]

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Inefficient. Why settle for humanoid shape, when there so many other superior forms you can take.

There's one task that the humanoid shape is uniquely effective at performing: appealing to other humans.

Also, she might not be able to rewire her nervous system to properly operate something that isn't human-shaped. She knows how to run arms, legs, a face, etc.

And maybe she just likes it - same as how she looks very similar to before.

I wonder if the clothes are built-in?

[Radar]

There's one task that the humanoid shape is uniquely effective at performing: appealing to other humans.

That and in choosing one's own body, one should also consider comfort - the form should be something that feels natural.

[-D-]

There's one task that the humanoid shape is uniquely effective at performing: appealing to other humans.

Yeah, I get the meta reason. I just don't get the in world reason.

She's mostly robot, can't she just fast train her newly created body?

That and in choosing one's own body, one should also consider comfort - the form should be something that feels natural.

In a war, I'd rather be in a battle tank, firing long range missiles half way across the globe than feeling natural.

[HandofShadows]

In a war, I'd rather be in a battle tank, firing long range missiles half way across the globe than feeling natural.

She has to move around and interact with a city filled with people. Rather hard to do as a tank. Hiding/blending in is much better than being a war machine unless you want to kill the whole city and have the firepower to do so.

[Qwertystop]

Yeah, I get the meta reason. I just don't get the in world reason.

She's mostly robot, can't she just fast train her newly created body?


In a war, I'd rather be in a battle tank, firing long range missiles half way across the globe than feeling natural.

That is an in-world reason. Other humans exist in-world, and she may need to interact with them.

What do you mean by fast-train?

This is not a full-out war. If it is any kind of war, it is a war of information. If she looks like her only modification was an arm replacement, that's one thing the opposition doesn't know.

[Radar]

In a war, I'd rather be in a battle tank, firing long range missiles half way across the globe than feeling natural.

We know nothing about the capabilities of this new body, so I wouldn't complain about the form. Besides, humanoid form has a serious mobility advantage in comparison to a typical tank. Plus, there is nothing stoping her from building a battle tank to ride in.

[-D-]

That is an in-world reason. Other humans exist in-world, and she may need to interact with them.

Other humans that shun cyborgs, even ones with a spare arm.

Nothing stops you from making human looking remote controlled shell, or hide your artificial body inside a specially made husk.

What do you mean by fast-train?

I mean, like "I know Kung Fu", but for adjusting to your newly created body. Either way, if that's off, the period of acclimation shouldn't be much more longer than several weeks.

We know nothing about the capabilities of this new body, so I wouldn't complain about the form. Besides, humanoid form has a serious mobility advantage in comparison to a typical tank. Plus, there is nothing stoping her from building a battle tank to ride in.

Still has serious disadvantages when you compare it to spider like or insect like locomotion. I mean, who doesn't want four extra legs and ability to move faster than their eyes can process?

[t209]

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I know that she had subdermal implants but it looked that the machine pumped her body with steroids.

[eschmenk]

I had been concerned that she would look much like her future self from this comic or from the Hobb arc. Yeah, I know the Time Colonists changed things and Kim isn't so hot on transhumanism anymore, but I was afraid that she might have felt forced by the circumstances to go that way anyway. I'm glad that she went for a look that doesn't seem to be such a rejection of her humanity.

[Qwertystop]

So

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I know that she had subdermal implants but it looked that the machine pumped her body with steroids.

...did you miss the words "full prosthetic" earlier? Or the several references to the same idea? "Cut off her entire body"? There's no subdermal implants because she's got no skin, just a bot that looks like it.

[Radar]

Still has serious disadvantages when you compare it to spider like or insect like locomotion. I mean, who doesn't want four extra legs and ability to move faster than their eyes can process?

Not really, since with good sense of balance you get exactly zero advantage from additional legs - they'd just weight you down. As for speed or eyesight, this has more to do with the hardware used then the choice between bipedal and hexa- or octapedal (that's how you spell it?).

[-D-]

Not really, since with good sense of balance you get exactly zero advantage from additional legs - they'd just weight you down. As for speed or eyesight, this has more to do with the hardware used then the choice between bipedal and hexa- or octapedal (that's how you spell it?).

It's not just balance - redundancy, exoskeleton structure, it all makes for some really excellent movement options.

Also speed of movement depends a lot of friction and it's way better if your squishy parts lie within your skeleton than outside of it like its the case with legs. True, a cyborg wont have many squishy parts, but no reason not to keep that precious brain of hers, tucked safely away in her chest cavity.

[Narkis]

I had been concerned that she would look much like her future self from this comic or from the Hobb arc. Yeah, I know the Time Colonists changed things and Kim isn't so hot on transhumanism anymore, but I was afraid that she might have felt forced by the circumstances to go that way anyway. I'm glad that she went for a look that doesn't seem to be such a rejection of her humanity.

On the other hand, I'm rather disappointed we got just a buff Kim instead of a transhumanist one.

[sihnfahl]

On the other hand, I'm rather disappointed we got just a buff Kim instead of a transhumanist one.

What sort of design would you prefer to see?