Mutants & Masterminds III: How to build some powers?

[Grod_The_Giant]

So, the player has updated his character to PL 10. Could you review again? I'll pass you suggestions on and see if he wants to make any changes.

Spoiler: Black Glass

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Hero: Black Glass Identity: Grant Jacobs (Secret) Player: Matt Dahlin
Gender: Male Age: 37 Height: 5’ 10” Weight: 134 lb. Eyes: Brown/Gray Hair: Brown
Group Affiliation: Obsidian Life Base of Operations: Emerald City Power Level: 10 (150)
Power Point Totals: Abilities: 62 + Powers: 31 + Advantages: 11 + Skills: 34 + Defenses: 12 = 150
Strength: 1, Agility: 3, Fighting: 3, Awareness: 4, Stamina: 12, Dexterity: 3, Intellect: 2, Presence: 3
Defense:
Dodge: 8(5), Parry: 8(5), Fortitude: 12(0), Toughness: 12, Will: 6(2)
Offense:
Initiative: 3
The Resecter +9, Close 19-20, Damage 5
Skills:
Close Combat (Knife) +9(6), Deception +9(6), Expertise (Business) +6(4), Insight +8(4), Intimidation +7(4), Investigation +10(8), Perception +8(4), Persuasion +11(8), Sleight of Hand +9(6), Stealth +9(6), Technology +8(6), Treatment +6(4), Vehicles +5(2)
Advantages:
Benefit 3 (Millionaire), Benefit 1 (Alternate Identity), Contacts, Equipment 3, Fearless, Hide In Plain Sight, Well-Informed
Powers:
Immortality 2 (Flaw: Body must be mostly intact -1/rank)
Immunity 2 (Critical Hits)
Impervious Toughness 12
Regeneration 10
The Resecter 5: (Affliction 5 (Stamina Impaired, Stamina Disabled, both from pain, Limited Degree -1, Damage (Strength-Based) 3 (not including 1 from knife), Easily-Removable -2)
Gear:
The Resecter (Knife) 2, Smartphone 2, Headquarters 2 (Communications, Computer), Lock Release Gun 1, Multi-Tool 1, Costume & Mask 1 (Mask acts as Flash Goggles), Lincoln Town Car (6?)

EDIT: And, insofar as you can see what the player is going for, how would you stat this character to make him more effective? I'll show it to the player and offer him the chance to make some changes, should he want to.

So, off the top of my head, he's got a solid defense, but his Will should be two higher, and his offense is trash. A single Effect 5 attack-- without even the full attack bonus-- is simply not going to cut it. Trust me on this one-- I saw a player whose main attacks were Damage 6 in a PL 10 game, and he could barely affect anything that wasn't a minion. His Damage 4-dealing summons were almost entirely useless.

My advice would be to drop the Impervious Toughness-- it's usually not worth the points-- and potentially some of the skills. Buy up your will, and boost the knife attack to Effect Rank 8 or so. Or grab Multiattack, Power Attack, and a Penetrating alternate effect for those rare cases

Also, for the Resecter: I'm not sure what "Stamina Impaired" means, but I think you might want Weaken Stamina instead. (The only Stamina checks you make are to hold your breath, if I remember correctly)

[Jacob.Tyr]

Alright, so here are my notes:
Abilities look fine
Skills are a bit... extreme.
Advantages:
Alternate Identity might not function how he thinks it does. Alternate Identity is like another legal identity, not your super identity. It's like having complete legal documentation on another human that you can pretend to be. I'd suggest dropping it, to be honest.

Benefit wealth is a fluff decision, so I'm not going to disagree with it. I would, however, suggest maybe dropping it to 2 to free up a point.

Powers:
For the affliction the Limited Degree should be -1/rank, not just -1. This means you get 2 Ranks/PP spent. It also means that upping it to 6 costs the same as having it at five right now.

The Damage on his attack is low, though. He should try to aim for having attack+damage at the PL threshold. Being how cheaply he made himself immune to attacks twice as powerful as his own, he should expect to have some trouble dealing damage overall.
Something like the following for his attack:
Linked Effects
-Affliction: Affliction 6, Hindered, Disabled, Resisted by: Fortitude, DC 16; Limited Degree (3 points)
-Damage: Strength-Based Damage 9, Easily Removable (5 points)
Total 8 points for the attack.

I'd suggest cutting back his skills, as at this point he should be 2 points over (assuming he doesn't want the alternate identity). I'd just cut out a few skill points and call it a day.

[Jacob.Tyr]

Also, for the Resecter: I'm not sure what "Stamina Impaired" means, but I think you might want Weaken Stamina instead. (The only Stamina checks you make are to hold your breath, if I remember correctly)

I think, correct me if I'm wrong, that he meant fortitude for the resistance. Since Fort is based on Stamina, I'm guessing it is just a typo.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I think, correct me if I'm wrong, that he meant fortitude for the resistance. Since Fort is based on Stamina, I'm guessing it is just a typo.

So it's "Impaired, Disabled; resisted by Stamina (or possibly Fort)?" That would make more sense if it's the case.

[Sith_Happens]

I'll throw it into Hero Lab and see if I can find any bits to fiddle with. I have a hard time checking a build without it, but for playing around and coming up with one you might want to check out the demo version.

How much of the features does the demo version have anyways?

[Jacob.Tyr]

How much of the features does the demo version have anyways?

You just can't save or print characters, otherwise it's the same as the complete version. I've only been playing with it for a few weeks, but if you're willing to just write things out after you've made a character with it it's pretty awesome. Definitely worth having at least the demo, imo.

[Absol197]

Thanks as always, guys!

So here's the version I'm going to recommend to the player. Does this seem good?

Spoiler: Black Glass Recommended

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Hero: Black Glass; Identity: Grant Jacobs (Secret); Player: Matt Dahlin
Sex: Male; Age: 37; Height: 5’10”; Weight: 134 lbs.; Eyes: Brown/Grey; Hair: Brown
Group Affiliation: Obsidian Life; Base of Operations: Emerald City; Power Level: 10 (150 points)

ABILITIES (62 points)
Str 1; Agl 3; Fgt 3; Awe 4; Sta 12; Dex 3; Int 2; Pre 3

DEFENSE (14 points)
Dodge 8; Parry 8; Fortitude 12; Toughness 12; Will 8

OFFENSE
Initiative: +3
The Resector +9 Close, Damage 9 (19-20)

SKILLS (30 points)
Close Combat (knife) +9, Deception +9, Expertise (business) +6, Insight +8, Intimidation +7, Investigation +10, Perception +8, Persuasion +11, Sleight of Hand +9, Stealth +9, Technology +8, Treatment +6, Vehicles +5; –1 Rank to 8 Skills

ADVANTAGES (10 points)
Benefit 3 (Millionaire), Contacts, Equipment 3, Fearless, Hide in Plain Sight, Well-Informed

POWERS (34 points)
Immortality 2 (Flaw – body must be intact) (2 points)
Immunity 2 (Critical Hits) (2 points)
Impervious Toughness 12 (12 points)
Regeneration 10 (10 points)
The Resector Strength-Based Damage 9 (Improved Critical) linked to Affliction 8 (Impaired, Disabled; Limited Degree, Resisted by Fortitude); Easily Removable (8 points)

The goal is to match up with your suggestions while keeping it as close to the player's original as possible. To that end, I ditched the alternate identity, and the original was already one point under because of miscalculating the affliction power, so I started with -2 points. I upped the Resector to a level that is hopefully effective at PL 10, upped Will Defense to 8, which gives us +4 points. -1 ranks to 8 skills would be -4, which gets us back to even.

Does that look okay? I know you'd probably recommend lowering skills more, but I didn't want to make that call without the player! I may also consider Grod's advice to lower the cost on being a millionaire, but I do want to keep as close to the rules as possible for my first game.

[Beleriphon]

Well, as for offense you're only off on attack bonus by +1. The only tip I might throw in there is look at the Close Attack advantage. For single point you boost all close attacks by +1 which is what you need to make up bring the main damage attack to an even PL10.

As for the Benefit advantage for being Rich, Super Rich, or SUPER RICH!!!!!!!! it's a matter of taste. If its something you feel will be of moderate use in game keep the points as they are, if you think its just enough benefit to be occasionally useful (say as useful as a built in pocket in your leg) then 1 point is probably okay for anybody you think should have fabulous wealth. If you don't think it makes any difference then go with it as some background, or even a complication like Annoying Board Meetings.

[Absol197]

So, how would one build a "Time Stop" power, like the spell? M&M seems to have a nix on extra action/turn mechanics, so I've been puzzling over that for a while.

Also, since we've only got a party of four, I'm considering adding some NPCs to join the party now and again. One of the people I've been wanting to add is a person who can turn their skin into diamond, and shoot diamond shards from her hands. As before, I've run out of points with which to build. I still need some for skills and advantages; could you help me with trimming the fat?

Spoiler: Diamond Girl

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Hero: Bling; Identity: Latoya Jackson; Player: Phee Gruber
Sex: Female; Age: 18; Height: 5’5”; Weight: 130 lbs.; Eyes: White; Hair: Black
Group Affiliation: —; Base of Operations: Emerald City; Power Level: 10 (150 points)
Abilities 62 + Defenses 12 + Skills 34 + Advantages 11 + Powers 30 = 149

ABILITIES (44 points)
Str 2; Agl 5; Fgt 3; Awe 2; Sta 2; Dex 3; Int 2; Pre 3

DEFENSE (8 points)
Dodge 5; Parry 5; Fortitude 2/12; Toughness 2/15; Will 8

OFFENSE
Initiative: +3
The Resector +9 Close, Damage 4

SKILLS (0 points)

ADVANTAGES (0 points)

POWERS (101 points)
Diamond Form (Move Activation) (91 points)
Enhanced Trait 20 (Strength 10, Stamina 10)
Impervious Toughness 15
Immunity 34 (cold, disease, electricity, fire, poison, pressure, vacuum)
Diamond Blast (20 points)
Ranged Damage 10

I think the main thing comes from shaving off immunities, but I do want her to be diamond-like, so most of those immunities make sense to me. I guess I'm just indecisive...

[Grod_The_Giant]

So, how would one build a "Time Stop" power, like the spell? M&M seems to have a nix on extra action/turn mechanics, so I've been puzzling over that for a while.

There are a couple of good ways to do it:

• Quickness is the standard "get things done fast" power.
• Multiattack or an Area attack with the descriptor of stopping time and walking around punching everyone.
• A Selective Area Move Object effect can handle "stopping time and moving things around."
• Summon (Duplicate) with the Feedback flaw.

Also, since we've only got a party of four, I'm considering adding some NPCs to join the party now and again. One of the people I've been wanting to add is a person who can turn their skin into diamond, and shoot diamond shards from her hands. As before, I've run out of points with which to build. I still need some for skills and advantages; could you help me with trimming the fat?

Drop the super strength, drop some of the immunities (lacking the immunities to electricity, fire, and col would not kill your flavor), or both. Or put the strength and blast in an array, if you can come up with a bull**** reason for that to make sense. ("Diamond Manipulation! I'll also throw Move Object Double Limited to Diamonds in there!")

Also remember that for most NPCs, you don't have to and should not count points. Though if she's meant to work alongside the party, it's not a bad idea to make sure she's at the same level.

[Sith_Happens]

Summon (Duplicate) with the Feedback flaw.

I don't see how this would be an effect of stopping time. Moving so fast you're effectively in two places at once yes, stopping time no.

Besides that nitpick Grod's got the gist of it; due to the tight lid the system keeps on action economy, most forms of time manipulation are consigned to being descriptors.

[Broken Crown]

I think the main thing comes from shaving off immunities, but I do want her to be diamond-like, so most of those immunities make sense to me. I guess I'm just indecisive...

Dropping the fire immunity, at least, would make thematic sense. Diamonds burn. They're made of carbon.

[Absol197]

So, more power advice!

I have my second character concept. This one isn't statted out, it's just a concept.

Spoiler: Silent Stalker

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Name: The Silent Stalker

Alias: Gilligan “Beanstalk” Black

Powers:
• Phase Out
o Allows all electromagnetic energy to pass through him. Only works on him, his clothes, and objects on his person when activated.
• Mask Scent
o Works by keeping all generated particles at skin surface. Can hold up to 12 hours worth of particles.
• Redirect Sound
o Works by manipulating pressure waves. Can hide his own sounds, listen in on conversations, and throw his voice (ventriloquism). Works in air and water up to 50 ft.
• Proximity Knowledge
o Gains personal information about people when close to them, without them noticing. Different types of info at different distances (Examples: likes and dislikes at 25 ft, strengths and weaknesses at 10 ft, passwords at 5ft, secrets when touching, etc.). Information gained this way fades away after 24 hours, unless spoken aloud or written down.

Weaknesses:
• Whistle
o A pitch of 7kHz disrupt his Phase Out power
 Duration is proportional to the power that reaches him (1 second per 10dB)
• Scent Overload
o When Mask Scent is deactivated, all the contained particles are released, and his normal scent is highly concentrated until they disperse.
o If Mask Scent exceeds capacity, particles release inward, causing damage to him.
• Songs
o Various classic rock songs cause him to dance (Example: “Vehicle” by The Ides of March). Moving speed reduced by half.

Backstory:

Gilligan Jones was born and raised in the suburbs of the metropolitan city Ritaltown. He had two siblings (older brother, younger sister), who he never got along with. His father was an alcoholic, and abusive to his mother, who habitually pretended everything was fine. Gilligan could remember several evenings where the local police was called out to the house by the neighbors. He would block out the yelling by putting on his headphones and cranking up the only good local radio station around: the classic rock channel. It was his only comfort in that terrible household.

By the age of 16, he had joined one of the local gangs (the Blades), who had welcomed him with open arms and camaraderie. Gilligan was usually the look out, and he gained the nickname Beanstalk from his scrawny stature and his ability to hide from others behind trees and support beams. His computer skills rapidly raised his rank within the gang, quickly becoming the go-to guy for hacking and shutting off alarms. He started going on jobs invading homes of rival gangs, stealing money or personal effects.

He soon became infatuated with one of his class mates, Madison. She had that girl-next-door appeal, a beauty that didn’t need being popular or smart in class to be noticed. It was the long flowing blond hair and the deep ocean blue eye that dragged Beanstalk’s mind to her most days. He longed to talk and flirt with her, but she was off limits. She was the gang leader’s girl, and “Sticky” didn’t take too kindly to anyone who eyed her. So Beanstalk did the next best thing: watched her from a distance. He would sneak peeks at her notes, watch her walk in the hallways between classes, or follow her home, staying far enough away to never be noticed. But it wasn’t enough, as Sticky eventually figured out what was going on. And he had a plan to end it…

Just after his 17th birthday, Beanstalk was pulling a job with several gang members, including Sticky. They were at the house of the town’s Head Detective, Jonathan Keeneye, trying to find the latest gang intelligence to destroy. When Sticky and Beanstalk where alone in one of the rooms, Sticky took his opportunity and knocked him out, leaving Beanstalk unconscious on the floor. When he awoke, the police were just arriving. He quickly dashed to the garage, where he hotwired Keeneye’s white mustang, and lead the police on a car chase for a few miles. Running the car into a street sign, the pursuit was over, and he was arrested for car theft and burglary. Still believing the gang was the only family he had, he never gave up any of his fellow gang members as being involved that night. The judge was very displeased with his lack of cooperation, and sentenced him to 10 months in Juvenile Detention. As luck would have it, he would never make it to the facility…

The night his transport was taking him to the Correctional Facility on the outskirts of town, a massive thunderstorm hit the town of Ritaltown. The drivers couldn’t see the road very well through the rain, and ran head first into a chemical truck without his lights on. The escorts were instantly killed, while Beanstalk was only hurt and knocked unconscious. Radioactive waste began to leak from the chemical truck into the transport truck, covering Beanstalk as he lay there. Suddenly, a lightning bolt struck the trucks, causing the remaining waste to explode, and tossing Beanstalk into the neighboring corn fields.

He awoke the next morning, feeling strange and fighting a pounding headache. The sound of police and chemical crews had woken him, and he desperately wished that they wouldn’t find him. He slowly tried to lift himself up off the ground to sneak away, but realized he had no hand! Or arm! In fact, he couldn’t see any part of himself! Even more freaked out, he took off for one of the gang’s safe houses. No one even noticed the corn parting as he ran for it.

The safe house was empty when he got there, but he was still invisible. Beanstalk slowly calmed down, and suddenly popped back into existence. He had no idea what was going on! He flipped on the TV to see what the news stations were saying about the accident. The reporter was claiming that everyone had died in the explosion! That Gilligan Jones was no more!
Realizing he had once again vanished in his surprised state, Beanstalk took in a deep breath. As he let it out, his arms rematerialized right before his eyes! He suddenly realized something must have happened to him last night in the explosion. That he had the ability to become invisible. And who knows what else! Beanstalk was scared no one would understand his newly gained powers, and knew that if he ever showed his face again, he would face going to Juvy again, or even some kind of government testing. He realized he would have to go into hiding, and figure out his abilities on his own.

He soon vowed to help and protect kids in need, just like the gang members that had given him a home. He searched out abusive homes, stealing their assets or sneaking in to stop the abuse. Beanstalk donated the money he stole to orphanages and foster homes, hoping to improve the lives of the disadvantaged. He soon began seeking out crooked teachers and shady authorities, in hopes of exposing their actions to the cops. One night, he decided to start leaving behind notes, informing his targets they had been “Stalked”. Soon, his vigilante actions of stopping bad parents and exposing city corruption, along with the fact no one ever saw him, earned him the name of The Silent Stalker.

By day, Beanstalk worked for a small computer parts store, helping out with his impressive computer skills. He was very good with customers, knowing their worries even before they could explain them (another ability Beanstalk discovered he had). Beanstalk kept his first name of Gilligan, but the last name of Jones quickly disappeared, replaced with something that fit far better: Black. He kept to himself and rented a small apartment in the city. Here, he kept an eye on the city, fighting injustice whenever he could!

So Phase Out is easy, that's just normal invisibility. Mask Scent is Olfactory Concealment. I don't think the 12 hour limit is worth being Limited; if he can't find a place to drop his stink in 12 hours, I can give him a hero point for the complication. But the needing to leave his scent when he turns the power off might be worth a quirk.

Redirect Sound is a bit trickier. Masking his sounds would be Auditory Concealment, but this one might be made Area so he can mask other people, too. For focusing sounds, the best I can think of is Area Enhanced Auditory Senses, basically increasing people's hearing by amplifying the sounds, but I'm sure there can be something better. For ventriloquism, maybe just making his normal voice Area?

The last is going to be the hardest. I think Mind-Reading? But how would I work all those limiters?


Also, I have another NPC I need help with. The idea is that he can split his concentration across multiple universes, where he can make different choices, then collapse reality into the one he liked best.

The different effects that I'm trying to find ways to do are:
Being able to consistently get a result on rolls that are near his maximum;
Perform searches and other similar activities quickly (by doing different parts of the searches in different universes), including without appearing to do them;
"Predict" events and know information that he shouldn't seem to be able to know, as long as a different choice could have gotten him the information.

Basically, imagine Nick Cage's character from Next, except instead of seeing the future, he sees other presents. Ideas?

[Grod_The_Giant]

Redirect Sound is a bit trickier. Masking his sounds would be Auditory Concealment, but this one might be made Area so he can mask other people, too. For focusing sounds, the best I can think of is Area Enhanced Auditory Senses, basically increasing people's hearing by amplifying the sounds, but I'm sure there can be something better. For ventriloquism, maybe just making his normal voice Area?

For focusing sounds, you probably need to use Affects Others first. Also, have you considered using Remote Sensing? Seems to fit the descriptor a bit better.
For ventriloquism, you want either Communication, or, perhaps, Illusion (Auditory). I don't think you can have an Area voice-- even if there was a "voice" effect to apply the modifier to, I should think speaking can already be heard in an area.

The last is going to be the hardest. I think Mind-Reading? But how would I work all those limiters?

Mmm. I'd probably do it as an array, like to:

• Mind Reading 10, Limited to Surface Thoughts
• Mind Reading 10, Quirk -2: Up to Personal Thoughts, Quick -2: Perception doesn't increase range beyond normal maximum, Diminished Range 1
• Mind Reading 10, Quirk -1: Up to Memories, , Quick -2: Perception doesn't increase range beyond normal maximum, Diminished Range 2
• Close Mind Reading 10

It's not exactly as you described, but it's a fairly straightforward way of representing a mind reading power that gets stronger as you get closer. If you want to be fancy, you could buy fewer ranks of the versions that work at longer ranges-- maybe Mind Reading 4 for the first power, 6 for the second, and so on.

[Beleriphon]

For the redirecting sounds to a different place I'd personally just go with an Auditory Illusion with the limit that it has to momic and existing environmental sound. It even lets people realize the sound isn't actually really in that area.

[Sith_Happens]

So Phase Out is easy, that's just normal invisibility.

To me the description of the power also implies Immunity to EM-based attacks.

Mask Scent is Olfactory Concealment. I don't think the 12 hour limit is worth being Limited; if he can't find a place to drop his stink in 12 hours, I can give him a hero point for the complication. But the needing to leave his scent when he turns the power off might be worth a quirk.

Sounds right.

Redirect Sound is a bit trickier. Masking his sounds would be Auditory Concealment, but this one might be made Area so he can mask other people, too. For focusing sounds, the best I can think of is Area Enhanced Auditory Senses, basically increasing people's hearing by amplifying the sounds, but I'm sure there can be something better. For ventriloquism, maybe just making his normal voice Area?

Illusion (with appropriate Limitations) will cover ventriloquism and general sound manipulation, as already mentioned.

The last is going to be the hardest. I think Mind-Reading? But how would I work all those limiters?

Um... Yeah, what Grod said.

Being able to consistently get a result on rolls that are near his maximum;

It's really, really dirty and your players will cry bloody murder if they find out, but if you're content with one reroll per round you could use a free action Variable effect to "refresh" Enhanced Advantage: Luck whenever you're about to run out.

Perform searches and other similar activities quickly (by doing different parts of the searches in different universes), including without appearing to do them;

Remote Sensing, All Senses (Simultaneous, No Conduit, Subtle 2, Limited to physically accessible locations).

"Predict" events and know information that he shouldn't seem to be able to know, as long as a different choice could have gotten him the information.

Rapid Precognition.

[Grod_The_Giant]

It's really, really dirty and your players will cry bloody murder if they find out, but if you're content with one reroll per round you could use a free action Variable effect to "refresh" Enhanced Advantage: Luck whenever you're about to run out.

Yeah, don't do this. It's about as broken as you can make the system. Just give him the maximum number of Luck ranks (1/2 PL), lots of points in his skills, and assorted Skill Focuses and you'll be fine. You can also use powers with a "talent" descriptor to simulate super-high skills. Concealment 10 is like always rolling natural 20's on Stealth checks. A Sense-Based (Hearing) Perception mind controlling Affliction is a supernaturally high Persuade. Stuff like that.

[Absol197]

Actually, what I was thinking for that power in particular was to give him the skills I want him to have as normal, then give him an Enhanced Skills power that adds a high bonus to the skills that could be affected by the ability, and putting a limiter on there that says he can't achieve a result higher than he could with his non-enhanced ranks. He would still only roll once, but he would always be getting close to if not at his maximum result. Of course crits would still only happen on a nat 20, unless I put a lot of ranks into Improved Critical, which probably won't be necessary.

Do you think that could work?

[Grod_The_Giant]

So, what, a +10 modifier to the skill, and Enhanced Skill 10, Limited: can't raise total result above 30?

That's work. That's pretty clever, actually. Maybe use Reaction (make a skill check) Variable, Limited to Enhancing Skills, Limited: can't raise total result above ____, so it'll apply to all your skills. (Except for attack, since PL limits would apply)

[Tvtyrant]

Stupid question, but in M&M3E I cannot find where to tell what the rank cap for a power is. I want to build an object summoner (Extras: Permanent Object, Stationary Object, Impervious Object. Flaw: Feedback, Fades, Check Required.) 0 cost per rank (so 2 ranks for each PP I put in it.) 150 PPs available, and I know there is a cap on ranks but I am not sure what it is.

[Beleriphon]

Stupid question, but in M&M3E I cannot find where to tell what the rank cap for a power is. I want to build an object summoner (Extras: Permanent Object, Stationary Object, Impervious Object. Flaw: Feedback, Fades, Check Required.) 0 cost per rank (so 2 ranks for each PP I put in it.) 150 PPs available, and I know there is a cap on ranks but I am not sure what it is.

There's only cap if an effect forces resistance checks (saves in D&D parlance). That would be Damage, Affliction or a few other effects. Create all by itself is limited only by the number of points you'd like to put into. Skills bonuses are capped at PL + 10, which at PL10 the cap is a total bonus of +20. Attacks are capped by Effect Rank + Attack bonus = 2xPL, which at PL10 is something like Effect Rank 12 with an attack bonus +8, or Effect Rank 10 and attack bonus +10. You could have both of those on the same character as well.

[Tvtyrant]

There's only cap if an effect forces resistance checks (saves in D&D parlance). That would be Damage, Affliction or a few other effects. Create all by itself is limited only by the number of points you'd like to put into. Skills bonuses are capped at PL + 10, which at PL10 the cap is a total bonus of +20. Attacks are capped by Effect Rank + Attack bonus = 2xPL, which at PL10 is something like Effect Rank 12 with an attack bonus +8, or Effect Rank 10 and attack bonus +10. You could have both of those on the same character as well.

I guess I might be a little confused. So say I put 50 points into create, netting me 100 ranks. Since this doesn't actually provide any resistance my effect level is 100? Or is it capped at 20 since that is double the power level? An EL of 100 would allow me to make (by my sketchy calculations) 5.989286e+104 Ktons of material as a standard action (I have no earthly idea what that means in common notation.) A rank of 20 would get me 25 Ktons, or a large aircraft carrier.

Now the rules do not say that there is a check for someone to avoid being enclosed in something like that, so I could literally bury an opponent in ultra-hard material between ship and continent in size. I must be doing something wrong >_>

[Grod_The_Giant]

There's only cap if an effect forces resistance checks (saves in D&D parlance)

Correct... but that includes Create, for the reasons Tvtyrant mentioned: you can force resistance checks to avoid getting trapped or squashed. There's no attack roll, which means that it's capped at PL. (Same for Area or Perception-ranged attacks). You can buy more ranks, but they'd probably need to be Limited to increasing volume, or something like that.

[Beleriphon]

Now the rules do not say that there is a check for someone to avoid being enclosed in something like that, so I could literally bury an opponent in ultra-hard material between ship and continent in size. I must be doing something wrong >_>

Well, if you're using it to build continent sized cages then there isn't really a check to avoid the effect per se, but at Grod points out depending on how you use Create it can provoke a resistance check. However in general there's isn't a cap on that particular effect since it isn't actually an attack as such, using it as an attack should probably cap the max applicable ranks, but just using Create to produce billions of tons of stuff doesn't have a cap.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Well, if you're using it to build continent sized cages then there isn't really a check to avoid the effect per se

Ahem.

You can trap a target inside a large enough hollow object (a cage or bubble, for example). This requires both an attack check against the target’s Dodge and a Dodge resistance check against the effect’s rank. A trapped character can break out of the object normally. Imposing conditions on the target other than just trapping them requires a separate effect, such as Affliction (see Affliction), which you may wish to acquire as an Alternate Effect of Create (see Alternate Effect).

(Huh. I didn't realize there was an attack check as well as a Dodge save)

[Beleriphon]

Ahem.

(Huh. I didn't realize there was an attack check as well as a Dodge save)

I know, my point is more about continent sized cages, which at a certain point is just silly and should really be provoking any kind of resistance check. I think idea with the extra resistance check is that using Create as an attack really isn't as efficient as using other effects like Damage or Affliction.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I know, my point is more about continent sized cages, which at a certain point is just silly and should really be provoking any kind of resistance check. I think idea with the extra resistance check is that using Create as an attack really isn't as efficient as using other effects like Damage or Affliction.

Create makes a pretty good offensive power, actually. Sure, it's save for none instead of save for half, but a half-power Damage or Affliction rarely works anyway. And trapping someone with Create takes 'em totally out of the action for at least one turn as they try to hammer their way out of the bubble. It's basically save-or-stun, overcome by damage, and shapeable area damage, and various utility effects, all for 2 points/rank.

[Beleriphon]

Create makes a pretty good offensive power, actually. Sure, it's save for none instead of save for half, but a half-power Damage or Affliction rarely works anyway. And trapping someone with Create takes 'em totally out of the action for at least one turn as they try to hammer their way out of the bubble. It's basically save-or-stun, overcome by damage, and shapeable area damage, and various utility effects, all for 2 points/rank.

Oh, it sure is a darn good effect to use on the attack, but for all of that utility the targets of the attack get extra resistance checks. I figure it hashes out in the end though.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Oh, it sure is a darn good effect to use on the attack, but for all of that utility the targets of the attack get extra resistance checks. I figure it hashes out in the end though.

Eh, it's no more saves than a normal attack. I'm not calling it broken or anything, I'm just saying that all aspects beyond volume ought to be PL limited.

[Tvtyrant]

Create makes a pretty good offensive power, actually. Sure, it's save for none instead of save for half, but a half-power Damage or Affliction rarely works anyway. And trapping someone with Create takes 'em totally out of the action for at least one turn as they try to hammer their way out of the bubble. It's basically save-or-stun, overcome by damage, and shapeable area damage, and various utility effects, all for 2 points/rank.

This is why I was going with it. Bury the enemy in giant cages and mazes while defeating their friends or setting up an Office Space beatdown.

Also possibly linked power: Summon and have them stuck in the box with an attacking minion.