Mutants & Masterminds III: How to build some powers?

[Grod_The_Giant]

I have a monster in mind that is part brute and part wizard. He has 8 arms, each with a mouth. Thematically each mouth can cast an incantation simultaneously. Is there anyway of simulating that or should I drop that aspect for balance sake? Also each mouth is to have a tongue that is about 10-15 feet in length. Do I have to apply reach to each extra limb or is there way to do it once and have each limb get it?

For the tongue, I believe that you'd only need to purchase Reach (or Elongation) once for all your limbs.

For the multiple mouths... casting eight different spells simultaneously isn't likely going to work in M&M, not without spending a godawful amount of points on Linked effects. Instead, I'd try some variants on the classic workabout for multiple attacks:

• Multiple Mouths: Multiattack on effect rank 10, Variable Descriptor 1: Any Spell (11 points)

• Multiple Castings: Secondary Effect on effect rank 10, Variable Descriptor 1: Any Spell (1 point)
• Multiple Hands: Multiattack on Damage 10, Variable Descriptor 1: Any melee attack

[Lord Raziere]

First off, I'll note that you're using Area wrong. It's a +1/rank modifier, meaning that each rank of the Area power costs an additional point. An Area 2 (Cloud) Ranged Affliction would cost 4 points/rank-- 1 base, +1 for increased range, +2 for applying Area twice.
.

and I hate that. is there some way to extend that range without having +10 for every rank, so that I don't wind up with a 120 point power just because I want to destroy or do something big?

would Extended Range work? because I want a flat cost for ranged stuff like this, not this expensiveness.

and as for why: to blow up big things! for SCIENCE! duh!

[Grod_The_Giant]

and I hate that. is there some way to extend that range without having +10 for every rank, so that I don't wind up with a 120 point power just because I want to destroy or do something big?

would Extended Range work? because I want a flat cost for ranged stuff like this, not this expensiveness.

and as for why: to blow up big things! for SCIENCE! duh!

Extended Range lets you reach farther away, but it wouldn't make your area attacks bigger. By RAW, the only way to do that is extra ranks of Area, with the attendant +1 cost/rank. You could argue with your GM about increasing costs/diminishing benefits of larger and larger area blasts, but there it is.

If you really want to murder everything, you could make a Contagious Area Damage power, which would cause everything hit by the explosion to explode in turn. And everyone hit by those explosions. And those explosions. And those... it's a really stupid modifier, and if you try to use a power like that at the table, the DM will probably throw the Gamemaster's Guide at your head. A better alternative would be a Multiattack Area power. It's not quite RAW, but it seems pretty reasonable to rule that each extra blast you place reduces the Dodge DC by 1. (And that you can't affect a target more than once with one use of the power).


On an unrelated note, does this page of the thread look messed up to anyone else?

[Lord Raziere]

No, I just want a classic explosion. and murdering is not the point, the point is the explosion itself.

and yes the page does look messed up. its not just you.

[ChaosArchon]

The only explanation is someone on this page is secretly a villain and trying to destroy the world Playground.

[Yaktan]

So, here is a character I have been cooking up. Hopefully I got everything working.

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Name: Dr. Itneh
Power Level: 10 (150 points)
Abilities 44 + Defenses 34 + Skills 7 + Advantages 20 + Powers 45

Abilities: 44 points
Str 0; Sta 8; Agi 0; Dex 3; Ftg 0; Int 8; Awe -1; Pre 4;

Defenses: 34 points
Dodge 11 (11); Fort 12 (4); Parry 11(11); Tough 8 (0); Will 7 (8)

Offense:
Initiative +0
Nanite Gun +11 (DC 24)
Tentacles +8 (DC 27)

Skills: 7 points
Deception +10 (2)
Expertise (science) +10 (2)
Persuasion +7 (3)
Technology +15 (7)

Advantages: 20 points
Attractive
Cipher
Eidectic Memory
Equipment 8
Improvised Tools
Inventor
Minion 7

Powers: 45 points
Defensive nanites: 17 points
Morph (Humanoids) 3, 15 points
Healing (others only) 15, 15 points
Regeneration 15, 15 points
Offensive nanites: 28 points
Cloud of control nanites: Affliction 8, vs. will (Dazed, Compelled, Controlled), cumulative, cloud, subtle 1, reversible, 26 points
Nanite rail gun: Ranged damage 9, accurate 4, 22 points
Tentacles of Science: Damage 12, reach 3, accurate 4

Equipment: 8 points
Van of Science: 35 equipment points
Huge, Str 10, Tough 14, Defense 6
Machine Gun (Ranged Multiattack Damage 3, 9 points), Autopilot 1 pt, regeneration 2 2pt, speed 6 6 pt
VTOL craft: alternate effect
Huge, Str 10, Tough 9, Defense 11
Flight 8 16 pts, regeneration 1 1pt

Minion: 7 points
Jill, Graduate Student (105 points)
Abilities: 16 pts
sta 6; int 3; awe -1;

Defenses 29 pts
Dodge 13
Fort 12
Parry 6
Tough 6
Will 3

Offense
Initiative +0
Nanite Gun +8 (DC 24)
Tentacles +8 (DC 27)

Skills 12 pts
Deception 1
Expertise (Science) 5
Technology 7
Vehicles 17

Advantages 3 pts
Attractive 2
Teamwork

Powers 45 pts
Same as the Doctor's

Backstory:

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Doctor Itneh was a single-minded researcher studying nanites. The Enemies of Science (TM) tried to assassinate him, but he had already started to experiment on himself, so the attempt was unsuccessful. He managed to recover and now lives under an assumed identity. He hopes his enemies were fooled and do not realize he can shapeshift and regenerate. He had since gained a graduate student, Jill, who is also an experimental subject, and has experimented on his van, which can now morph into a VTOL aircraft. Jill and the Van can interface their nanites, allowing Jill to pilot expertly. The nanites have a wide range of uses. One set provides physical improvement and healing, while also allowing both people to alter their appearance at will. The other set has more offensive uses, taking over other people or turning into self-directed weapons.

As I said, I hope everything works. The minion and vehicle are make it a bit long to type everything out, but I like the ability to magnify my points.

[Lord Raziere]

Name: Dr. Itneh

....

Tentacles +8 (DC 27)

....

Attractive

....

Minion 7

....

Tentacles of Science: Damage 12, reach 3, accurate 4

....

Minion: 7 points
Jill, Graduate Student (105 points)
Abilities: 16 pts
sta 6; int 3; awe -1;

......*raises eyebrow* this character raises too many questions that I'm not sure I want answered....by the way, are you sure that you didn't misspell his name, and that it actually isn't: Dr. Iatneh? just....out of morbid curiosity...

[Yaktan]

Well, I do not know how to pronounce "Ia" at the start of a word, so that would not work as well. This is my second time stating out this character concept, but I forgot the name I used before, so I just came up with something quick. The previous version had worse defenses, two weaker minions, no vehicle, an extra offensive power, and weaker healing. I forgot exactly why I decided he should have tentacles in the first place, though. I think it just seemed suitable for a shapeshifting dude to crush people with tentacles. He is supposed to be a mad scientist, even if he is potentially heroic.

[Lord Raziere]

really....none of this.....all combined......doesn't remind you of anything? nothing at all? just....my mind putting together things and leading itself to the wrong conclusion? is that it? you see...nothing alarming about this at all?

.....um...ok if so....um.....seems well put together to me! show it to your GM right away! be sure to talk to him about how much fun you'll be having with Dr. Itneh, Jill and his powerful tentacles!

[Sith_Happens]

I feel like I can turn the Fungal Biology into an array and free up some points there.

This you can't do, the key limiting factor of an array is that only one of its constituent powers functions at a time (unless they're dynamic, in which case more modes active = weaker powers).

I am now thinking of exchanging immortality for regeneration but putting the caveat of "Must be in a place that is amicable to fungal life" and "Is suppressed by fire for X rounds" I don't know how to choose X though. This would give the DM a say in when I can regenerate and gives it a big common weakness.

"Caveat" is a nonspecific term; "Only in environments where fungi can grow" is a Limited flaw, while "Nullified by fire damage" is best handled as a Complication. How long it remains nullified for is entirely up to you, just pick a length of time that feels right.

I have a monster in mind that is part brute and part wizard. He has 8 arms, each with a mouth. Thematically each mouth can cast an incantation simultaneously. Is there anyway of simulating that or should I drop that aspect for balance sake?

Depends on a few different factors. If you actually want it to be able to use eight different effects at once, but are fine with it being the same eight effects every time, you might be able to link them all together. This will be extremely powerful (and expensive) though. Like, no-remotely-sane-GM-would-allow-it-under-any-circumstances powerful (on the other hand, if this is an NPC for a game you yourself are GMing then knock yourself out).

If you want the above except the spell combination can vary, it's array time, and the power level goes up to "Seriously, just stop this madness right now before somebody has an aneurism."

Conversely, if you want all eight spells on a given turn to do the same thing just with different descriptors, then it can just be a single power with a really fancy description and maybe Variable Descriptor. Oh, and a Complication saying that disabling one of the creature's mouths causes its powers to lose a rank of effect.

Also each mouth is to have a tongue that is about 10-15 feet in length. Do I have to apply reach to each extra limb or is there way to do it once and have each limb get it?

Attacking with eight arms is still one attack, so you only need to apply Reach once. You probably also want Multiattack.

EDIT:

be sure to talk to him about how much fun you'll be having with Dr. Itneh, Jill and his powerful tentacles!

Just so we're clear, Raziere is talking about sex.

[jguy]

Sith: Oh okay, I think I am getting better hang of the concept of an Array. So I want to know if I understand this. I want 6 Extra Limbs, so that is Extra Limbs 6 (1/rank). I want Extra Reach 3 applied to my limbs. Would that mean I play 3 points all together or 3 per rank, meaning (3X6 = 18 for the 6 ranks of Extra Limbs) or would it be (3X8=24) because I have 8 limbs? Then I want to add Multiattack to my limbs. Would that be 1 rank, 6 ranks, or 8 ranks?

I feel just having 1 rank of Elongation would be simpler and just fluff it as tongues coming from hands and not use it for anything else.

[Sith_Happens]

Sith: Oh okay, I think I am getting better hang of the concept of an Array. So I want to know if I understand this. I want 6 Extra Limbs, so that is Extra Limbs 6 (1/rank). I want Extra Reach 3 applied to my limbs. Would that mean I play 3 points all together or 3 per rank, meaning (3X6 = 18 for the 6 ranks of Extra Limbs) or would it be (3X8=24) because I have 8 limbs? Then I want to add Multiattack to my limbs. Would that be 1 rank, 6 ranks, or 8 ranks?

Trick question, Extra Limbs doesn't qualify for either of those modifiers (Reach needs close range, Multiattack needs an attack). You want apply them to the character's Strength-based damage, costing [Strength + 3] points.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Sith: Oh okay, I think I am getting better hang of the concept of an Array. So I want to know if I understand this. I want 6 Extra Limbs, so that is Extra Limbs 6 (1/rank). I want Extra Reach 3 applied to my limbs. Would that mean I play 3 points all together or 3 per rank, meaning (3X6 = 18 for the 6 ranks of Extra Limbs) or would it be (3X8=24) because I have 8 limbs? Then I want to add Multiattack to my limbs. Would that be 1 rank, 6 ranks, or 8 ranks?

I feel just having 1 rank of Elongation would be simpler and just fluff it as tongues coming from hands and not use it for anything else.

The Extra Limbs is one effect with multiple ranks, so you only have to apply Reach to it once to have it affect all the hands. Reach has a flat cost, so 3 ranks of Reach costs you 3 points, and would apply to all your extra limbs. Though I agree that Elongation would be easier and more thematically appropriate.

As for Multiattack... you're not applying it to your Extra Limbs power. You're applying it to your Damage power-- in this case, probably the part of Strength that lets you hurt people. (Sometimes referred to as the "built-in Damage power.") Something like Strength-Based Damage 0, Multiattack on Damage X, for X points (where X is your normal Strength damage) would do the trick. Or Multiattack on Damage X, Variable Descriptor 1 (any melee weapon) for X+1 points.

[jguy]

I have an array question. Say I have a sustain power and damage aura under an array. If I want to activate the aura, say when I get hit, it would turn off my sustained power if I had been currently using it yes? Now can I activate the damage aura if I used a damage x power that was also in that same array within that turn? (Blast, get hit on enemies turn, use damage aura as reaction)

[Grod_The_Giant]

I have an array question. Say I have a sustain power and damage aura under an array. If I want to activate the aura, say when I get hit, it would turn off my sustained power if I had been currently using it yes?

Yes.

Now can I activate the damage aura if I used a damage x power that was also in that same array within that turn? (Blast, get hit on enemies turn, use damage aura as reaction)

Switching powers in the array is a free action, which as far as I can tell can only be taken on your turn-- reaction seems to be a different type. So I think the answer is no, you can't switch to a reaction power as a reaction. You could, however, use the Damage power, then switch to the Reaction power using the normal 1/round Alternate Effect shift thingie. You just couldn't do that twice in a row.

[ChaosArchon]

So if I just use the SRD that grod linked, I should be able to play a M&M game perfectly fine?

[Grod_The_Giant]

So if I just use the SRD that grod linked, I should be able to play a M&M game perfectly fine?

Yup! As far as I can tell, all the rules are there-- the only things that seems to be missing are example of character creation/gameplay. You might want one one piece of advice from the Gamemaster's Guide ("don't count power points on NPCs; it's not even remotely worth it) and these encounter difficulty guidelines, but otherwise you should be OK.

[Sith_Happens]

these encounter difficulty guidelines

Those are designed for 2e, where two ranks equals a doubling instead of one. The general principle still applies, but some recalibrating is in order.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Those are designed for 2e, where two ranks equals a doubling instead of one. The general principle still applies, but some recalibrating is in order.

Really? Huh. I've been using them with 3e for years with great success and zero problems.

[Sith_Happens]

Really? Huh. I've been using them with 3e for years with great success and zero problems.

Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure that difference only applies to abilities. Does the "+2 PL = twice as hard" thing come from a source or just player experiences?

[Grod_The_Giant]

Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure that difference only applies to abilities. Does the "+2 PL = twice as hard" thing come from a source or just player experiences?

Player experience, I think. That and some math-- if you google around, you can find some statistical analysis of M&M 3e combat.

[bpzinn]

For the tongue, I believe that you'd only need to purchase Reach (or Elongation) once for all your limbs.

For the multiple mouths... casting eight different spells simultaneously isn't likely going to work in M&M, not without spending a godawful amount of points on Linked effects. Instead, I'd try some variants on the classic workabout for multiple attacks:

• Multiple Mouths: Multiattack on effect rank 10, Variable Descriptor 1: Any Spell (11 points)

• Multiple Castings: Secondary Effect on effect rank 10, Variable Descriptor 1: Any Spell (1 point)
• Multiple Hands: Multiattack on Damage 10, Variable Descriptor 1: Any melee attack

[Sith_Happens]

2. Add the Variable Conditions extra from Illusions Power Profile. (+ 2 pp/level)
This Allows you to pick the conditions at each level each time you use the effect.

So there are new mechanics in some of the Power Profiles.

[Beleriphon]

So there are new mechanics in some of the Power Profiles.

There are indeed. My personal favourites are the side bards in the Strength Profile. So much fun for super-strong characters that want to throw things into the Sun, or Alpha Centauri.

[Grod_The_Giant]

So there are new mechanics in some of the Power Profiles.

Here and there, but not enough that you "need" to drop $40 on the collection. The ones that introduced the most, according to my notes, are:

• Illusion
• Sensory
• Mental
• Strength
• Summoning
• Luck
• Teleport
• Size and Mass (no new rules, but some useful clarifications. Still probably not worth the confusion of using the Growth/Shrinking powers, though)

[Lord Raziere]

Hey, I have an idea:

What if I bought Damage rank 1, then Ranged rank 10, so that my attack, say a Fireball is incredibly distant...

...and then brought Ranged Combat (Fireball) Rank 10? I have a +10 bonus to the damage right, so shouldn't it mean that I bypass the whole "need to spend 10 points per rank" thing for incredibly distant attacks?

[Grod_The_Giant]

Hey, I have an idea:

What if I bought Damage rank 1, then Ranged rank 10, so that my attack, say a Fireball is incredibly distant...

...and then brought Ranged Combat (Fireball) Rank 10? I have a +10 bonus to the damage right, so shouldn't it mean that I bypass the whole "need to spend 10 points per rank" thing for incredibly distant attacks?

You'd have an attack with a +10 bonus, dealing Damage 1 at a range of "Ranged." The remaining 9 points of Ranged are meaningless and impossible-- technically, what you're doing is applying the Increased Range modifier to the Damage effect, raising the cost by 1 point/rank.

Now, if the damage was Strength-based (say because you're throwing a ball of molten rock), then the apparently-floating ranks of Increased Range have a purpose-- they've being applied to the Strength damage, so the total effect is Damage 10 (1 from the Damage power, 9 from Strength), Ranged.

[Lord Raziere]

ok, asking wrong question.

same question, but instead of Ranged, having ranks of Area instead? like Rank 1 damage, Rank 10 Area (Burst), with Ranged Combat rank 10?

[bpzinn]

ok, asking wrong question.

same question, but instead of Ranged, having ranks of Area instead? like Rank 1 damage, Rank 10 Area (Burst), with Ranged Combat rank 10?

Doomed Hometown Blast
Ranged Damage, Burst Area 10 (Fire Descriptor) One Rank Is Possible. (12 pp)

Ranged Combat Skill (Effing Inferno) is not necessary, as an Area Attack will automatically hit everything in the area. HOWEVER, At Burst Area 10, you are looking at a circle 4 MILES in diameter (Including the Air). Ranged Long Range is Rank times 100 FEET. So you are with Spitting distance of the center.

As an Attack this is negligible Everything within that four mile Diameter Zone will get a Fortitude Save against a Rank 1 Damage Effect with the Fire Descriptor.

At this time the GM should realistically create a Complication Duplicating the Environment Power effects of Heat, Light, and Impede Movement in that 4 Mile Globe Covering All places within that have flammable Objects, and happen to lack non-flammable Total Cover. Because those areas are now on fire.

You gain 1 (One) Hero point. Depending on where you used this power, there may be other social and political aftereffects. For example, any points you spent in Status might be returned to you should you accidentally burn down the homes of those who formerly held you in high regard.

Note that since you are just taking one rank, additional modifiers are rather cheap. I would recommend adding Perception, Selective,and Precise, so you do not flambe the county you are in every time you use this power. Also, you can make a killer Exalted Anima Effect, or put a giant flaming mile high image of your head a couple miles in the air, so everyone knows how awesome you are. It does not come with sound, but giant words in flaming yellow, red, and gold are no problem.

Also, It should be trivial to claim a +5 circumstance modifier on nearly every Intimidation Skill Roll.

[ChaosArchon]

So have we figured out what's wrong with this page by the way? Oh and I finally made my first hero! Super basic but hopefully he turns out well