Mutants & Masterminds III: How to build some powers?

[Beleriphon]

Doomed Hometown Blast
Ranged Damage, Burst Area 10 (Fire Descriptor) One Rank Is Possible. (12 pp)

Ranged Combat Skill (Effing Inferno) is not necessary, as an Area Attack will automatically hit everything in the area. HOWEVER, At Burst Area 10, you are looking at a circle 4 MILES in diameter (Including the Air). Ranged Long Range is Rank times 100 FEET. So you are with Spitting distance of the center.

As an Attack this is negligible Everything within that four mile Diameter Zone will get a Fortitude Save against a Rank 1

This isn't a bad idea. Keep in mind that you can also use the Extended Range flat modifer which double an effects Ranged range. That is to say a Rank 1 Ranged effect like damage normally has a long range of 100 feet, but with Extended Range you can double that with each application, thus with 8 ranks you get 25600 feet, or just over four and three-quarter miles.

[Grod_The_Giant]

ok, asking wrong question.

same question, but instead of Ranged, having ranks of Area instead? like Rank 1 damage, Rank 10 Area (Burst), with Ranged Combat rank 10?

The Area modifier can be applied multiple times, increasing both the affected area and the cost/rank, as bpzinn noted. That's pretty unusual though. What are you trying to do or ask about with Damage 1, <Modifier> 10?

[Lord Raziere]

The Area modifier can be applied multiple times, increasing both the affected area and the cost/rank, as bpzinn noted. That's pretty unusual though. What are you trying to do or ask about with Damage 1, <Modifier> 10?

to get the capability to destroy something big, as before! y'know, without having to spend damage 10, area (burst) 100, to do so. I was operating on the assumption of area costs were flat and that I needed to only spend 10 points, and I don't want to change to real rules. thats why I keep putting in Ranged Combat skill, to enhance the damage back to rank 10.

but since it just deals Damage 1, no matter what, forget it. apparently my hopes of playing characters THAT powerful in this system just aren't feasible.

[Grod_The_Giant]

to get the capability to destroy something big, as before! y'know, without having to spend damage 10, area (burst) 100, to do so. I was operating on the assumption of area costs were flat and that I needed to only spend 10 points, and I don't want to change to real rules. thats why I keep putting in Ranged Combat skill, to enhance the damage back to rank 10.

but since it just deals Damage 1, no matter what, forget it. apparently my hopes of playing characters THAT powerful in this system just aren't feasible.

Don't forget, there's no usage limit on anything. You might not have the points to nuke a city as a standard action, but something like Ranged Weaken 10, Burst Area 2, Also Affects Objects (50 points) will obliterate just about any non-super caught in its way*. Fire one or two of those acid-nukes at the bottom of a building and it's coming down. And the you do it again. In a couple minutes, downtown will be a smoking ruin.

Otherwise, yeah, you need upwards of 70 points to start throwing around really huge nukes. That's not impossible-- I've seen transmuters work with 80-point Transmutation powers-- but it's certainly a lot. You might reasonably ask your GM for a discount, as there are definitely some diminishing returns going on.


*As inanimate objects, buildings don't get resistance checks (see the Affects Others modifier) and can't recover the points lost to Weaken (see the Weaken effect). Hit 'em with Weaken 10, and the instantly lose 10 Toughness, no questions asked. Steel is rated at Toughness 9.

[Lord Raziere]

ok, forget that then.

how would you make a blind character in Mutants and Masterminds? cause I gone for a -10 Perception (Sight Only) and a +10 Perception (All Other Senses), but I want to see what you would come up with.

any ideas on how you would do the same for any other character featuring strange conditions like that? there is just a lot of weird edge cases in comics. like say, a girl who was taught telepathy to overcome her muteness, or a guy who constantly unleashes a maelstrom of psychic energy unless he constantly keeps his helmet on, and so on and so forth, but the system just doesn't seem to model those edge cases well for a superhero system.

[Grod_The_Giant]

how would you make a blind character in Mutants and Masterminds? cause I gone for a -10 Perception (Sight Only) and a +10 Perception (All Other Senses), but I want to see what you would come up with.

Depends on how much of a hindrance it is. If you've got something like Daredevil's radar sense, it's a complication ("can't read without touching thing"). Otherwise... I'd probably look at what sight "officially" is-- there's a sidebar in the Senses effect entry. Vision is Ranged, Acute, and Accurate; thus, I'd refund you 5 pp-- one for the base "vision," one each for Ranged and Acute, and two for Accurate. Then I'd make my hearing Ranged, and pick up Distance Sense. That ought to be enough to let me fight and not run into walls.

any ideas on how you would do the same for any other character featuring strange conditions like that? there is just a lot of weird edge cases in comics. like say, a girl who was taught telepathy to overcome her muteness, or a guy who constantly unleashes a maelstrom of psychic energy unless he constantly keeps his helmet on, and so on and so forth, but the system just doesn't seem to model those edge cases well for a superhero system.

For most of the edge cases like that, the answer is Complications. Basically, when the DM decides that your weird problem has/should actually become a problem (your telepathic mute has wandered into a null-psionic zone, Chamber has lost his helmet, whatever), you get a hero point.

[ChaosArchon]

Hey so my character has gravity based powers and I was wondering if there was an mechanical way for my character to hide his face so if anyone looked at him gravity gently forced their eyes away. I like this idea because it's alot more original than a mask and sounds like an interesting idea.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Hey so my character has gravity based powers and I was wondering if there was an mechanical way for my character to hide his face so if anyone looked at him gravity gently forced their eyes away. I like this idea because it's alot more original than a mask and sounds like an interesting idea.

Feature 1 (observers can't focus on face).

[jguy]

I have a question regarding what my character can and cannot do with this sense power.

My character is blind but due to his powers he can 'see' electricity. All forms of it, be it from inanimate objects or living organisms. This is what I came up with "Electric Sense: Awareness (Electricity) + Extended 3+Accurate+Acute+Analytical = 7 pp" So if I have this right I am 'aware' of all electricity within my normal range (normally a -1 per 10 feet). With extended 3 that increases to 10,000 feet or about 2 miles. Accurate means I can use it as if they were my eyes equivalently (though I don't know if this would be 2 points or 4, I said 2), Acute means I can get fine details and Analytical furthers that even more. All this combined does that mean I could reasonably have a near perfect 3d map of everything around me for 2 miles, including where everyone is and perhaps who they are? This is also saying I have 0 points in perception, going another 2 miles per modifier.

[Sith_Happens]

*As inanimate objects, buildings don't get resistance checks (see the Affects Others modifier) and can't recover the points lost to Weaken (see the Weaken effect). Hit 'em with Weaken 10, and the instantly lose 10 Toughness, no questions asked. Steel is rated at Toughness 9.

First off, it's impossible to destroy an object by weakening it, you have to damage it eventually. Secondly, each rank of an object's thickness above -7 (one inch) adds a point of Toughness.

I have a question regarding what my character can and cannot do with this sense power.

My character is blind but due to his powers he can 'see' electricity. All forms of it, be it from inanimate objects or living organisms. This is what I came up with "Electric Sense: Awareness (Electricity) + Extended 3+Accurate+Acute+Analytical = 7 pp" So if I have this right I am 'aware' of all electricity within my normal range (normally a -1 per 10 feet). With extended 3 that increases to 10,000 feet or about 2 miles. Accurate means I can use it as if they were my eyes equivalently (though I don't know if this would be 2 points or 4, I said 2), Acute means I can get fine details and Analytical furthers that even more. All this combined does that mean I could reasonably have a near perfect 3d map of everything around me for 2 miles, including where everyone is and perhaps who they are? This is also saying I have 0 points in perception, going another 2 miles per modifier.

I'm pretty sure Awareness doesn't Penetrate Concealment by default, so you need to add that. Once you do, you'll get a perfect 3D map of all nervous systems, hearts, and electrical wiring for two miles (including underground). You only need Accurate and Acute for that though, Analytical is for if you want to know stuff like current and frequency at a glance. Additionally, with appropriate skill checks I'd personally let Analytical Electric Awareness do stuff like read the data off a computer and "see" the contents of a video feed.

[jguy]

Okay, I can easily free up 4 points for Penetrates Concealment on that. So this would pretty much be Remote Sensing without needing the power then? I really like this idea and I find it funny that my hero would really not want to go into forests since he'd probably be running into things all the time. Although, I don't really know if plants have any sort of 'electrical' singles of sorts.

[bpzinn]

First off, it's impossible to destroy an object by weakening it, you have to damage it eventually. Secondly, each rank of an object's thickness above -7 (one inch) adds a point of Toughness.


I'm pretty sure Awareness doesn't Penetrate Concealment by default, so you need to add that. Once you do, you'll get a perfect 3D map of all nervous systems, hearts, and electrical wiring for two miles (including underground). You only need Accurate and Acute for that though, Analytical is for if you want to know stuff like current and frequency at a glance. Additionally, with appropriate skill checks I'd personally let Analytical Electric Awareness do stuff like read the data off a computer and "see" the contents of a video feed.

Concealment does usually affect all senses. That is usually someones power and not naturally occurring in nature.

For example a Bamboo rice paper divider offers no concealment versus sound. A Highway sound muffler does. His Electrical Awareness is not affected by Visual Concealment, Auditory Concealment, etc. It is only affected by Electrical Concealment only. (or Concealment from all Senses) An possible example of Total Electrical Cover (not concealment) is an active Faraday Cage for things inside it. Very well twisted and insulated wire might give Partial Concealment. For some thing to have Total Electrical Concealment, I would think it would have to emit no detectable electrical field when you were right on top of it, flesh does not to that, neither does the run of the mill wire.

And from what I can tell, Partial does not even penalize your Perception roll to detect it. You can detect the presence of a stimulus under partial concealment just fine, but the quality of your perception suffers the the form of a -2 penalty to attack rolls, and the possibility of Stealth being used against you.

So he does not really need Penetrates Concealment unless he really wants it.

[Beleriphon]

Although, I don't really know if plants have any sort of 'electrical' singles of sorts.

They don't as far as I'm aware, but insects and other animals sure do. You might not be able to sense the exact shape of a tree, but your character could sense all of the ants on the surface, insects burrowing into it and the birds on the branches. Being in a forest would be a hinderence sure, but I don't think it would be that bad. Still, complications are your friend here and you should be getting Hero Points for having physical blindness be an impediment.

[jguy]

I want to have a power that makes a persistent wall of fire that damages anyone who passes through it. What is the best way to put that together?

[bpzinn]

I want to have a power that makes a persistent wall of fire that damages anyone who passes through it. What is the best way to put that together?

The Wall of Fire part is easy, Ranged or Perception Damage, Line Area, Fire Descriptor. The Persistent Part is Harder;

M&M 3e seems to not want continuous damage effects. Damage is Instant, and can be made Concentration, but I do not see a way to make Concentration to Sustained or Continuous/Permanent Duration. That said, I see three ways.

Easiest if Allowed: Placed the Wall of Fire where you want it, and spend a Hero Point to "Edit the Scene" and say the Wall of Fire is now an Environmental Feature, affecting any who try to pass through it/are thrown into it. Your Wall of Fire (alternate) effect might have a Quirk requiring a Hero Point to be spent this way whenever it is used.

Moderate: Add several levels of Trigger. If you add 10 levels if trigger, then it will work the next 10 rounds some person dares to enter the Wall of fire. The fact that it still is a Wall of Fire giving off light and heat and roasting marshmallows on rounds between People walking into it (untill all the Triggers uses run out) is just part of its Fire Descriptor.

Complicated: Make a minion (Flame Friend/Salamander) who creates the Wall if Fire (Close Damage, Line Area, Affects Corporeal, probably Concentration or Secondary effect or trigger) for you, and Uses his action each round to keep it going. Probably also make it Insubstantial level 3/4 (animate flame) to avoid attacks, hard to see in flames, and with some absent abilities. (Absent Strength, Stamina, Intellect, Presence, etc.)

[Grod_The_Giant]

I'd go with a Create, Limited to increasing Volume linked to Reaction (Touching the construct) Damage. It ain't cheap, but it lets you make a big wall of fire that damages anyone who touches it.

[bpzinn]

I'd go with a Create, Limited to increasing Volume linked to Reaction (Touching the construct) Damage. It ain't cheap, but it lets you make a big wall of fire that damages anyone who touches it.

I disregarded Create because it is specifically creates "Solid Objects." I do not understand what you mean by Limited to Increasing Volume means.

If you created a physical anchor for the wall of fire effect (Arcane glyphs written in magma etchehed in the ground/hovering in the air)
You could then make a Perception Damage effect with the Reaction of (anyone within a handspan of touching a glyph, trying to pass over a glyph, trying to pass between 2 glyphs)

It seem over expensive for what it does.

[Lord Raziere]

It seem over expensive for what it does.

yeah, you'll run into that sometimes. M&M is great, but kinda overprices a few things. like Communication. you get a cellphone for 1 point as Equipment....but the actual communication power is really overpriced.

I recommend this houserule for Communication at least:

I. Communication Shalt Costeth Less
The Communication power at 4 points per rank is unreasonably high for me, and as such will only be worth 1 point per rank in my games. One may say that 5 points is a little much to communicate world-wide, but in modern times we have cellphones and computers that do this pretty easily and its kind of ludicrous that superheroes need to spend so much for something that is so basic in the genre, that and the Extras costs are the same, so if you want the full spread of Extras as well, its going to cost a total of 19 points, which I consider a reasonable cost for all those features.

as for your Wall of Fire:
Damage, Ranged, Area (Line), Increased Duration 2 (Continuous), 32 points, rank 10

thus now you can conjure up a wall of fire from range, staying there until you dismiss it.

[Sith_Happens]

The Wall of Fire part is easy, Ranged or Perception Damage, Line Area, Fire Descriptor. The Persistent Part is Harder;

M&M 3e seems to not want continuous damage effects. Damage is Instant, and can be made Concentration, but I do not see a way to make Concentration to Sustained or Continuous/Permanent Duration. That said, I see three ways.

There are a few hints that the lack of a Concentration-to-Sustained step for Increased Duration was unintentional (i.e.- they literally just forgot to list it). If your GM isn't willing to houserule it, though, you could easily stat a wall of fire as a Summon.

[Sith_Happens]

In case anyone's interested (and I hope at least a few of you are), I just posted a thread with rules questions and other hoped-for advice for a campaign I'll possibly be GMing soon.

Communication Shalt Costeth Less

The more I look at it, the more I feel like Summon is overpriced as well, or at least some of its modifiers are. On the other hand, whenever I actually start analyzing and building Summon powers in my head it goes the other way and seems like too competitive a price on what ultimately boils down to extra actions. ARGH.

Maybe my perceptions are just being colored by the fact that the campaign I'm planning is in a setting where having two non-identical Heroic Summons out at once is canonically a thing and I don't want my players to be priced out of doing it if they so choose.

[Lord Raziere]

I don't know about that, Sith. At its max rank cost, your basically summoning up a second 150-point hero to fight for you. thats really powerful by any measure. especially when that summon can have a lot of ridiculous powers and abilities all by itself. considering its potential, it might not be overpriced at all.

[jguy]

So is there any point in getting penetration on damage 11 or over? Also can you have ranks in something above 20?

[Sith_Happens]

So is there any point in getting penetration on damage 11 or over?

If you foresee needing to damage things with Impervious [Defense] 22 or over.

Also can you have ranks in something above 20?

Depends on your PL and what "something" is.

[jguy]

Is there a max rank you can have for toughness? Like even with PL 20 have 41 toughness and be immune to damage period?

[Sith_Happens]

Is there a max rank you can have for toughness? Like even with PL 20 have 41 toughness and be immune to damage period?

Your Toughness can be at most [2*PL - (Higher of Dodge or Parry)].

Your Fortitude and Will can total to no more than 2*PL.

Your attack bonus and effect rank with a given attack can likewise to no more than 2*PL. Any attack without an attack roll is capped at rank = PL.

Your total bonus with any skill can be at most PL + 10.

That's the sum total of caps on everything.

[jguy]

Sorry, what I meant to say was impervious toughness. Can you have a higher rank of imperviousness than the rank it is protecting?

[GenericMook]

No. Impervious isn't a flat modifier, and therefore has no rank on its own. It's a straight +1 cost/rank of Toughness/Enhanced (Fortitude/Will).

That being said, even if you could, it wouldn't actually do anything without the rank of the passive defense there to back it up.

[Sith_Happens]

Something funny I noticed:

You can teleport yourself and up to 50 lbs. (mass rank 0) of additional mass a distance rank equal to your effect rank as a move action.

Not "equal to or less than," just "equal to." Oops.

[Lord Raziere]

Something funny I noticed:



Not "equal to or less than," just "equal to." Oops.

welcome to why Feature was made!

Feature (Can teleport less than equal to effect rank), 1 point, rank 1

its minor house rule in a can!

[Sith_Happens]

Question #1: If a device is easily removable, but only when not in use, does it still qualify for the flaw? What about if it's still easily removable while in use, but removing it doesn't necessarily end its effect (just keeps it from being reactivated if or when it would need to be)?

Question #2: If a power is only usable on certain days of the week, is that better handled as a flaw or a complication?