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  1. - Top - End - #181
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    Default Re: OOTS #955 - The Discussion Thread

    Here's another way that lightning can be dodged without changing or removing any real-world facts about lightning, but only adding "miracle exceptions/overrides" with magic.

    Refer to this: http://what-if.xkcd.com/16/

    Assume that the magic that governs the targeting of the lightning is not so precise that it can bullseye you, specifically, for the hit, but that it merely manipulates the ionized path of the lightning bolt through the air to bring the "lightning shadow" into overlap with a three-dimensional sphere around your location such as you are the tallest object within it. At that point the lightning will strike you, based on normal physics.

    But, if you MOVE in the window of time after that "lightning shadow" is decided and fixed by the spell but before the time the tip of the traveling lightning bolt reaches that 3D sphere of the "lightning shadow" (or even before it starts, if you can anticipate the casting in some way, such as observing the caster's movements, or knowing the casting time of the spell) just enough that you are no longer IN the "lightning shadow" or are no longer the tallest object in the "lightning shadow", then the lightning will not strike you. It will ground directly to the ground near where you used to be standing, or strike that other tall object instead.

    This would require reaction times on the order of nanoseconds, which is superhuman. But relative to having enough constitution to survive being gored by a triceratops, or enough strength to hold a mooring line in a storm immobile with one hand, it is within the same order of superhuman with respect to dexterity as it is to those other stats.

  2. - Top - End - #182
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    Default Re: OOTS #955 - The Discussion Thread

    Yes. This is what being a wizard means. From the spells prepared for the day, how do you MacGyver a solution to the problem at hand?

  3. - Top - End - #183
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    Default Re: OOTS #955 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by multilis View Post
    Real life physics:

    Problem 1 is lightning being a charge would normally go around any barrier it could not go through. (Still could work in making lightning miss the ship)
    Problem 2 is having fast enough reflexes to stop something moving at nearly the speed of light.
    Problem 3 is technically supposed to only allow vertical wall, rather than horizontal.

    It takes cartoon physics to make this work.


    Update: Lightning (air plasma bridge?) *might* travel as slow as 3,700 miles per second in air, still absurdly extreme.

    It is a little complicated as first you have the bridge of plasma forming which will be comparatively low energy, then as soon as connection is made, more and more energy would flow which would widen the bridge between both ends... sort of like a river of water flowing through a sand dam.

    Cut off the lightning when the bridge is forming, and the bridge finds a different route, the main energy pushing has not been released yet. Sort of like plugging a tiny hole in a sand dam, water will find another way, once a different hole forms it rapidly grows.
    Again. Magic. V hirself has described it before as telling the laws of physics to sit down and shut up. Even if it shouldn't work according to real-life physics, it still works because magic.

  4. - Top - End - #184
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    Default Re: OOTS #955 - The Discussion Thread

    Why is Blackwing so awesome? He was just a one panel joke about silly player mentalities, how do you reach from that to this?
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  5. - Top - End - #185
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    Default Re: OOTS #955 - The Discussion Thread

    That V/Blackwing dynamic. So good.
    "For you see, I theorize that the halfling does not possess a true sentient brain, like you or I, but rather a simple lump of nerve tissue that serves as a primitive "proto-brain" that can only process two emotional reactions to people: Hate or Lust."

  6. - Top - End - #186
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    Default Re: OOTS #955 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Trixie View Post
    You're talking about 3rd level spell. Since real lightning have far greater power than what wizards can summon (unless you postulate they risk permanent blindness and deafness just from side effects alone each time they try to cast it) and 10d6 isn't enough to damage ships like Mechane either, it follows it's much stronger. 100d6 stronger.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kamunami View Post
    By the way, what ARE the specs for natural lightning strikes in D&D?
    Well...
    Thunderstorm

    In addition to wind and precipitation (usually rain, but sometimes also hail), thunderstorms are accompanied by lightning that can pose a hazard to characters without proper shelter (especially those in metal armor). As a rule of thumb, assume one bolt per minute for a 1-hour period at the center of the storm. Each bolt causes electricity damage equal to 1d10 eight-sided dice. One in ten thunderstorms is accompanied by a tornado (see below).
    Emphasis mine. So, like I have said in my previous posting, the strongest natural lightning strike deals 10d8 damage. Which is less what magic can do if someone tries hard enough.

  7. - Top - End - #187
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    Default Re: OOTS #955 - The Discussion Thread

    So let me get this straight. Literally, and I mean literally, jumping over a lightning bolt is A-OK but putting up a Wall of Force to stop it isn't?

    Sometimes I wonder if people remember this comic takes place in a world governed by D&D rules.
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  8. - Top - End - #188
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    Default Re: OOTS #955 - The Discussion Thread

    Now we have to see Blacking Roc!! Even if he doesn't get V to act as familiar!

    I can't believe there's such a long and heavy discussion going on the physics of lighning and on the effects of spells blocking it. Rich always said he mostly follows the rules of storytelling, rather than real life or D&D true ones. Same for the polymorphing. Rule of cool wins over everything. I thought Elan had taught that enough!!
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  9. - Top - End - #189
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    Default Re: OOTS #955 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nenec View Post
    I can't believe there's such a long and heavy discussion going on the physics of lighning and on the effects of spells blocking it. Rich always said he mostly follows the rules of storytelling, rather than real life or D&D true ones. Same for the polymorphing. Rule of cool wins over everything. I thought Elan had taught that enough!!
    No matter what happens in the comic, the forum will find a way to debate it for days on end.

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  10. - Top - End - #190
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    Default Re: OOTS #955 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Emperordaniel View Post
    No matter what happens in the comic, the forum will find a way to debate it for days on end.
    So true!!!
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  11. - Top - End - #191
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    Default Re: OOTS #955 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Emperordaniel View Post
    No matter what happens in the comic, the forum will find a way to debate it for days on end.
    I disagree, and will CONTINUE to disagree for at least ten pages of utterly futile discussion! Have at you!

  12. - Top - End - #192
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    Default Re: OOTS #955 - The Discussion Thread

    Oooh, a shiny new comic. Liking the new V.

  13. - Top - End - #193
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    Default Re: OOTS #955 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Red XIV View Post
    Again. Magic. V hirself has described it before as telling the laws of physics to sit down and shut up. Even if it shouldn't work according to real-life physics, it still works because magic.
    It also unquestionably works according to the rules of 3.5 D&D land. Which are explicitly, clearly, and repeatedly explained to be the laws of physics in the comic.

    You can ready a standard action. The standard action is an interrupt and goes off PRIOR to the trigger. That's how D&D 3.x works.

    You can use 10,560 commoners in a line to move an object 10 miles prior to the first guy finishing picking it up by having each snatch it out of the next guy's hands as he grabs it with a readied action. Then the last one lets it go while it's moving arbitrarily quickly, and it falls straight down and lands at his feet, because that's what happens when you grab something and then let it go which is all he has done.

    You can ready an action to interrupt an attack, THAT"S WHAT THE READY ACTION IS THERE FOR! That's how it's SUPPOSED to work! Being able to do things like block lightning with a wall of force is exactly why ready is in the rules.
    Last edited by Doug Lampert; 2014-06-13 at 10:26 AM.

  14. - Top - End - #194
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    Kobold

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    Default Re: OOTS #955 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantom Thief View Post
    I'm thinking the storm will escalate, V will have to polymorph Black wing resulting in a giant stone bird, and the title of the next panel will be "ROC me like a hurricane"
    And Blackwing yelling "Here I am" as he takes a lightning bolt
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  15. - Top - End - #195
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    Default Re: OOTS #955 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Lampert View Post
    You can use 10,560 commoners in a line to move an object 10 miles prior to the first guy finishing picking it up by having each snatch it out of the next guy's hands as he grabs it with a readied action. Then the last one lets it go while it's moving arbitrarily quickly, and it falls straight down and lands at his feet, because that's what happens when you grab something and then let it go which is all he has done.
    The REAL question is whether or not that object experiences relativistic effects in transit. So if it was a clock that was moved, what time does it read at the end?

    (And of course, the clock has only one hand, because time in D&D is measured in turns, rather than seconds....)

  16. - Top - End - #196
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    Default Re: OOTS #955 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphiox View Post
    The REAL question is whether or not that object experiences relativistic effects in transit. So if it was a clock that was moved, what time does it read at the end?

    (And of course, the clock has only one hand, because time in D&D is measured in turns, rather than seconds....)
    Obviously the clock moves backward, because each commoner is grabbing the object PRIOR to the guy he's taking it from.

  17. - Top - End - #197
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    Default Re: OOTS #955 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Emperordaniel View Post
    No matter what happens in the comic, the forum will find a way to debate it for days on end.
    No, we won't!


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  18. - Top - End - #198
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    Default Re: OOTS #955 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaxzan Proditor View Post
    No, we won't!
    Yes we will, and you can't prove otherwise[citation needed]!

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  19. - Top - End - #199
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    Default Re: OOTS #955 - The Discussion Thread

    So, do we get to consider this Chekov's Crow...or Roc...at least?

    I mean, come on...you don't tease like that without paying off at some point...

  20. - Top - End - #200
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    Default Re: OOTS #955 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Emperordaniel View Post
    Yes we will, and you can't prove otherwise[citation needed]!
    No we wouldn't!

    ...Um, wait. Darn!


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  21. - Top - End - #201
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    Default Re: OOTS #955 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by QuidEst View Post
    Yes. This is what being a wizard means. From the spells prepared for the day, how do you MacGyver a solution to the problem at hand?
    I'd say it's what being an adventurer means. Whether it's your spells prepared, class abilities, skills, or magic (or even mundane) items on hand, the whole point is to creatively apply what you've got to the problem at hand.

  22. - Top - End - #202
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    Default Re: OOTS #955 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey Watcher View Post
    I'd say it's what being an adventurer means. Whether it's your spells prepared, class abilities, skills, or magic (or even mundane) items on hand, the whole point is to creatively apply what you've got to the problem at hand.
    I thought being an adventurer meant wandering around, killing some sentient creatures cause they have green skin and fangs and the adventurer doesn't and then taking their stuff.

    What?

  23. - Top - End - #203
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    Default Re: OOTS #955 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by goodpeople25 View Post
    I thought being an adventurer meant wandering around, killing some sentient creatures cause they have green skin and fangs and the adventurer doesn't and then taking their stuff.

    What?
    That's not fair, sometimes the adventurer has green skin and fangs and kills some sentient creatures with slightly different green skin and fangs

  24. - Top - End - #204
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    Default Re: OOTS #955 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphiox View Post
    The REAL question is whether or not that object experiences relativistic effects in transit. So if it was a clock that was moved, what time does it read at the end?
    The same as any other clock, of course.

    If you are mindlessly applying rules as written in defiance of common sense, then you must mindlessly apply rules as written in defiance of common sense. There are no rules for relativistic time dilation, so it doesn't exist.

    [I once read about some players trying this with a spear, hoping to demolish a castle with a spear moving at near light speed. If one of my players tried it, I'd be tempted to let it work, and the spear would travel ten miles in six seconds, at which point it would do 1d6 damage. If you insist on RAW, you get RAW.]

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    Default Re: OOTS #955 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    That's not fair, sometimes the adventurer has green skin and fangs and kills some sentient creatures with slightly different green skin and fangs
    that's true

    also some times the adventurer just kills the sentient creature regardless of fangs i mean how else is the adventurer going to get their stuff

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    Default Re: OOTS #955 - The Discussion Thread

    That Roc plan sounded like a Chekhov's Gun, if I've ever seen one.
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    Default Re: OOTS #955 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 137ben View Post
    High Priest of Hel also pretty clearly doesn't care what Malack thought either, so any requests Durkon made to Malack are worthless as far as HPoH is concerned.
    Yes, but it was a Blood Oath, and since Durkula is of Malack's Blood, if he breaks it, it will... well... it will mean Durkula is forfeit, he ceases to exist, cause breaking a blood oath made by a sire is way important... just ask Roy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Emperordaniel View Post
    Yes we will, and you can't prove otherwise[citation needed]!
    Citation Granted, cause Jaxzan will argue with me, and denounce everything I say. It is his way. If I say the sky is blue, he will say, no the sky is whatever color the DM decides it is, and their are clear rules in D&D to define the color of the sky. If I show within those rules the sky is blue he will then argue that this isn't D&D and there is no DM. If he can argue, he will argue, until he thinks he's lost then shout, "You never responded to my comment about the clear rules in D&D, this is not worth talking about, you're wrong because I refuse to accept the option of you being right"
    Last edited by Mr_Scruffy_Kilz; 2014-06-13 at 07:29 PM.
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  28. - Top - End - #208
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    Default Re: OOTS #955 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Scruffy_Kilz View Post
    Yes, but it was a Blood Oath
    Whatever gave you that impression?

  29. - Top - End - #209
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    Default Re: OOTS #955 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Scruffy_Kilz View Post
    Yes, but it was a Blood Oath, and since Durkula is of Malack's Blood, if he breaks it, it will... well... it will mean Durkula is forfeit, he ceases to exist, cause breaking a blood oath made by a sire is way important... just ask Roy.
    The only Blood Oath we have seen in this comic involved a "tattoo" parlor, a knife and a very explicit "this is a Blood Oath" warning. This was not a Blood Oath.
    Last edited by DaggerPen; 2014-06-13 at 07:49 PM.
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  30. - Top - End - #210
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    Default Re: OOTS #955 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Scruffy_Kilz View Post
    Yes, but it was a Blood Oath, and since Durkula is of Malack's Blood, if he breaks it, it will... well... it will mean Durkula is forfeit, he ceases to exist, cause breaking a blood oath made by a sire is way important... just ask Roy.
    Youre confusing a sire, as in biological father, with sire as in the one who turned you into a vampire. They are distinctly different things. Furthermore, there was no Blood Oath. There was blood, and Malack made a promise (kinda) but there was no magical ritual compelling him to hold to his oath.

    And even if there was, Eugene never saw any effects on him until after he died. As an outsider, Lurky/Malack would be unable to enter any sort of afterlife anyway.

    And furthermore (again) Malack died having completed this hypothetical oath, so any descendants would not be bound by it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Scruffy_Kilz View Post
    Citation Granted, cause Jaxzan will argue with me, and denounce everything I say. It is his way. If I say the sky is blue, he will say, no the sky is whatever color the DM decides it is, and their are clear rules in D&D to define the color of the sky. If I show within those rules the sky is blue he will then argue that this isn't D&D and there is no DM. If he can argue, he will argue, until he thinks he's lost then shout, "You never responded to my comment about the clear rules in D&D, this is not worth talking about, you're wrong because I refuse to accept the option of you being right"
    You spend like 5 pages dodging questions asking for sources on rules you claimed existed and ignoring the word of Giant, which trumps anything and everything that isn't also word of Giant. I don't see how that's in any way arguing for the sake of arguing.
    Last edited by Keltest; 2014-06-13 at 09:16 PM.
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