OOTS #955 - The Discussion Thread

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Citation Granted, cause Jaxzan will argue with me, and denounce everything I say. It is his way. If I say the sky is blue, he will say, no the sky is whatever color the DM decides it is, and their are clear rules in D&D to define the color of the sky. If I show within those rules the sky is blue he will then argue that this isn't D&D and there is no DM. If he can argue, he will argue, until he thinks he's lost then shout, "You never responded to my comment about the clear rules in D&D, this is not worth talking about, you're wrong because I refuse to accept the option of you being right"

You brought up the D&D rules more times than I did. I don't believe I ever used them at all, or the term DM in our discussion. If you fail to answer my arguments and go on to make utterly inane analogies, of course I'm going to stop having a discussion with you.

[pearl jam]

It's precisely this sort of munchkinism that would have made me disallow blocking a lightning bolt by the PCs. "Oh, lightning only goes at 3000 miles/second, not 186,000 miles/second, therefore that gives my character plenty of time to react and block it!" Look at all the obsessing over it! Just say "no" and move on.

You're too focused on comparing this to a table session.

It's a story and heroes in stories are sometimes able to pull off impossible feats, such as reacting in time to block lightning.

The fact that the same action might ruin a game is not really relevant.






EDIT:

Also, indignant rage it is, then!

[Trubbol]

Didn't V mention having like, knowledge of undead spirits or something earlier on, while discussing Roy's dad With Roy?

[BriarHobbit]

V will need something clever, as opposed to funny, to stop Thor's wrath. This is the time for Banjo to have a god-to-god talk with the Thunderer.

[LuisDantas]

Didn't V mention having like, knowledge of undead spirits or something earlier on, while discussing Roy's dad With Roy?

I don't specifically remember that. But if it is any help, #944 leaves little doubt that Roy is now fully aware of the Soul Splice.

Granted, the actual admission happens off-panel, but Vaarsuvius has clearly admitted to casting Familicide. The first panel also makes it clear that Roy is even aware of the fiends and of the specific time windows left to deal with.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0944.html

So it is at least reasonable to assume that V went fair and square with Roy. By this point he has little reason or motivation to hide anything of significance.

[DaggerPen]

I don't specifically remember that. But if it is any help, #944 leaves little doubt that Roy is now fully aware of the Soul Splice.

Granted, the actual admission happens off-panel, but Vaarsuvius has clearly admitted to casting Familicide. The first panel also makes it clear that Roy is even aware of the fiends and of the specific time windows left to deal with.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0944.html

So it is at least reasonable to assume that V went fair and square with Roy. By this point he has little reason or motivation to hide anything of significance.

I think BriarHobbit was referring to this strip.

: My knowledge of the denizens of the underworld is unmatched.

But even ignoring early installment weirdness, I doubt V is that familiar with how vampirism works - Giant's words seem to indicate that the knowledge is very obscure:

Likewise, any assumptions that characters in the comic know or understand the details of how this process occurs on a detailed internal level should be thrown out the window. They don't. Being a vampire is super-rare; being returned to life after being a vampire so you can share the logistics of how it worked from your point of view in such a way that it entered a general body of knowledge that people would have learned about in the course of their education is simply not something that has ever occurred.

[Snurk]

Great strip O tall one....

and the forum made my day again with the lightening discussions :D

[Jaxzan Proditor]

V will need something clever, as opposed to funny, to stop Thor's wrath. This is the time for Banjo to have a god-to-god talk with the Thunderer.

Wait, so that wouldn't be funny, but stopping the lightning with a Wall of Force is?

[strijder20]

Wait, so that wouldn't be funny, but stopping the lightning with a Wall of Force is?

I think that sentence had a little bit of irony in it.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I think that sentence had a little bit of irony in it.

Sometimes, especially on these forums, I have difficulty telling whether or not someone is being serious. That's why I asked them. I forgot to prepare Detect Sarcasm this morning.

[Rogar Demonblud]

That's okay, it's DC40 to use it on-line anyway.

[JessmanCA]

Is it me, or does less happen per comic since the art change? Like we're lucky to get 1 spell per comic now. Lots of fruitless conversation (is he Durkon? isn't he?) And this last spell is taking multiple comics to cast. Forgive me but I don't see the point in making these particular ten minutes last multiple comics (weeks). There's not that much action going on aside from a lightning bolt or two.

[Peelee]

Sometimes, especially on these forums, I have difficulty telling whether or not someone is being serious. That's why I asked them. I forgot to prepare Detect Sarcasm this morning.

That's the superiority of the sorcerer; I can just spam Detect Sarcasm until I'm out.

Is it me, or does less happen per comic since the art change? Like we're lucky to get 1 spell per comic now. Lots of fruitless conversation (is he Durkon? isn't he?) And this last spell is taking multiple comics to cast. Forgive me but I don't see the point in making these particular ten minutes last multiple comics (weeks). There's not that much action going on aside from a lightning bolt or two.

For what you want, you're reading it in the wrong format. If you wait a few months and play catchup, or wait til the book comes out, instead of the comic coming out piecemeal you'll have larger blocks at once, and the flow will be much better. For reading at the pace of each update, it's not flowing as organically as the book version, because of the larger wait times, but the overall concept is still adhered to (every page will end on a joke or a cliffhanger. Size and impact may vary).

I'm not criticizing, just saying that some aspects of the story need be more drawn-out (pun intended) than others for the sake of the overall story, and it appears as if you don't enjoy reading such parts when it is still a work in progress. Nothing wrong with that, but it'll probably be more enjoyable in larger chunks.

[Bulldog Psion]

V will need something clever, as opposed to funny, to stop Thor's wrath. This is the time for Banjo to have a god-to-god talk with the Thunderer.

That, I would love to watch.

*Popcorn*

(Actually, I'm harboring a secret wish to see Banjo ascend to godhood before the end of the comic. Just because.)

[Jaxzan Proditor]

That's the superiority of the sorcerer; I can just spam Detect Sarcasm until I'm out.

Bah, you think that just because you get more spells per day, you're so special.

[DaggerPen]

Is it me, or does less happen per comic since the art change? Like we're lucky to get 1 spell per comic now. Lots of fruitless conversation (is he Durkon? isn't he?) And this last spell is taking multiple comics to cast. Forgive me but I don't see the point in making these particular ten minutes last multiple comics (weeks). There's not that much action going on aside from a lightning bolt or two.

I donno if we had the same issue at the start of most books, but I know when the last book was starting, there were a lot of comments about the story "meandering" and being way too slow, and reading back over the archives, you just breeze through the section everyone was complaining about. I have a feeling something similar is happening here. Rich likes to ease into new books after long periods of action, and the climax of the last book was a doozy. I imagine we'll pick back up again shortly.

[warrl]

I can't help noticing how V calls Durkula 'the former Master Thundershield.' Suspicion? Nah...I am prolly reading too much into it.

I think V is of the opinion - for whatever reason - that Durkula is not Durkon. However, until that's confirmed and they have some clue what Durkula's agenda is, it makes sense to go with the idea that they are better off with an active divine caster than with a corpse.

Can V cast two spells after spotting the second lightning? Shouldn't he start casting at least the protection spell?

Actually, the second lightning gets blocked by a Forcecage. And then it won't matter what happens to the Forcecage after that, unless it's directly in the Mechane's path, so we probably won't need to discuss whether it moves with the ship or not.

As soon as that's done, it'll be time to cast the spells on Blackwing. Before the third lightning strike is detected.

I'm thinking the storm will escalate, V will have to polymorph Black wing resulting in a giant stone bird, and the title of the next panel will be "ROC me like a hurricane"

Thanks, now I'm going to have that song in my head all day long.

I'm expecting "V will, V will Roc you," myself.

When I was a foolish elf
Lust for power would call my name
I'd ignore this small...
This familiar bird of mine
I failed a test and reformed
Respecting all my allies
My crow don't love, don't love me
But after polymorph she hugs me
She loves me as a roc
Flies with me like the roc of ages
And she loves me

(with abject apologies to Paul Simon)

[Nilehus]

Pretty sure V's suspicious, but V doesn't know.

With the guilt and consequences they're currently dealing with, I'd be very surprised if V made any judgments without being 100% sure.

How many dozens of pages arguing about magic and lightning... Never change, OotS forums.

[Aaron L]

That was pretty darn snazzy. Not technically allowed according to the rules, but who cares? It was cool. And the art was just amazing.

Also, I believe V's usage of the term "the former Master Thundershield" is just another way of saying "the late Master Thundershield" as in meaning he is deceased, which he technically is, and V always strives to be technical and formal. I don't think it means anything more than that. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Also, I believe V's usage of the term "the former Master Thundershield" is just another way of saying "the late Master Thundershield" as in meaning he is deceased, which he technically is, and V always strives to be technical and formal. I don't think it means anything more than that. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

I think that this is the case as well. It is possible that Vaarsuvius suspects that something is up with Durkon beyond what is apparent, but I don't think they are certain or are revealing anything about their suspicions.

[Trixie]

Emphasis mine. So, like I have said in my previous posting, the strongest natural lightning strike deals 10d8 damage. Which is less what magic can do if someone tries hard enough.

Um, that rule is there to make a storm credible threat, yet not something gamebreaking. Imagine if it instead was 'unless you succeed on rolling 999 for Ref save, drop dead, your HP doesn't matter'. Would that be fun? I don't think so.

I saw someone on old CharOp calculate real lightning damage and it was something around ~9600 d4 (small dice to make damage less random, also, b4 any inevitable Vegeta jokes).

So let me get this straight. Literally, and I mean literally, jumping over a lightning bolt is A-OK but putting up a Wall of Force to stop it isn't?

You mean the jump which happened before spellcasting, seeing Miko had the action?

You can use 10,560 commoners in a line to move an object 10 miles prior to the first guy finishing picking it up by having each snatch it out of the next guy's hands as he grabs it with a readied action. Then the last one lets it go while it's moving arbitrarily quickly, and it falls straight down and lands at his feet, because that's what happens when you grab something and then let it go which is all he has done.

Except, this one is totally wrong and based on breaking 7 different rules

[Jay R]

You mean the jump which happened before spellcasting, seeing Miko had the action?

Yes, of course. Miko saw it coming, and jumped in the same panel the lightning was shown in. Similarly, V and Blackwing saw the charge building up, and then the spell was shown in the same panel the lightning was shown in.

[If I were going to claim something was inaccurate, it would be the Blackwing's ability to determine the strike is coming one panel in advance, but if you accept panel six, then panel seven is orthodox D&D.]

[Kish]

I might add that apparently readied actions are just too unbelievable but Miko hovering like a hummingbird is just fine, if one wishes to argue that Miko jumped "before spellcasting" without invoking the exact same split-second reflexes Vaarsuvius just showed. When Vaarsuvius' and Durkon's spells hit, Miko was directly over them.

[Bulldog Psion]

I think that this is the case as well. It is possible that Vaarsuvius suspects that something is up with Durkon beyond what is apparent, but I don't think they are certain or are revealing anything about their suspicions.

Given that V is usually utterly clueless about other people, I doubt there are even any suspicions.

[Keltest]

Given that V is usually utterly clueless about other people, I doubt there are even any suspicions.

I don't know about that. V has shown lack of interest rather than lack of ability to understand others. A big part of his character development is showing more concern for others.

[Porthos]

It's also not the only instance of something like that. I just didn't feel like tracking down each and every instance we've seen someone go all Matrix on us when dodging Fireballs, Lightning Bolts and whatnot. That just happened to be the first one I saw.

For example, here is a non-Readied action example.

Sorry, but it is impossible to do what Miko did on the second page, eighth panel of that comic. Or rather, it is just as impossible as what V did in the latest strip.

Again, I find it noteworthy that THIS example is so worthy of disbelief and the dozens of other examples of physics weeping to itself in the corner is accepted, as-is.

[Doug Lampert]

Um, that rule is there to make a storm credible threat, yet not something gamebreaking. Imagine if it instead was 'unless you succeed on rolling 999 for Ref save, drop dead, your HP doesn't matter'. Would that be fun? I don't think so.

I saw someone on old CharOp calculate real lightning damage and it was something around ~9600 d4 (small dice to make damage less random, also, b4 any inevitable Vegeta jokes).

Nonsensical and incorrect claim is nonsensical and incorrect.

Far more actual people live through being hit by lightning than die. Real world. Where we live this is true. You seriously think Joe average on a golf course has more than 24,000 HP? Really?

If you think that real world lightning is vastly more deadly than being hit in the face by a battleaxe then that is your problem. If you think someone else made an argument that just means that someone else may also be missing it completely when it comes to lightning strikes.

The D&D rule IS unrealistic for game play, it's FAR FAR DEADLIER than any plausible value to make lightning moderately worrisome to mid level adventurers.

[Keltest]

Nonsensical and incorrect claim is nonsensical and incorrect.

Far more actual people live through being hit by lightning than die. Real world. Where we live this is true. You seriously think Joe average on a golf course has more than 24,000 HP? Really?

If you think that real world lightning is vastly more deadly than being hit in the face by a battleaxe then that is your problem. If you think someone else made an argument that just means that someone else may also be missing it completely when it comes to lightning strikes.

The D&D rule IS unrealistic for game play, it's FAR FAR DEADLIER than any plausible value to make lightning moderately worrisome to mid level adventurers.

Given what HP represent, Lightning does 0 HP damage in real life. Instead it would be more like a fairly easy saving throw vs death.

[Jay R]

What’s the point of invoking physics for a character who proudly claims to file physics texts under "Fiction" in his/her personal library?

Now if you don’t mid, V is rather busy telling the laws of the universe to shut up and sit down.

[halfeye]

Far more actual people live through being hit by lightning than die. Real world. Where we live this is true. You seriously think Joe average on a golf course has more than 24,000 HP? Really?

I think a near miss by lightning is enough to make a lot of damage, but it may not always kill. An actual direct hit would kill, always, but it almost never happens. There are millions, billions of volts in a single lightning strike, and 30,000 amps of current.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning#Discharge