Belkar and Durkon

[KyrtFurey]

I'm missing something...

Why is Belkar suspicious of Durkon to the point he believes that Durkon isn't Durkon?

[Sartharina]

Because he saw the circumstances of Durkon's death.

[Kish]

I'm missing something...

Why is Belkar suspicious of Durkon to the point he believes that Durkon isn't Durkon?

Good question.

Any answer from anyone but Rich would be purely speculative.

[malloyd]

I'm missing something...

Why is Belkar suspicious of Durkon to the point he believes that Durkon isn't Durkon?

Is there some reason he shouldn't be? Maybe that's how it is in all the stories told in Evil Halfling villages. It's actually more consistent both with the source legends and the way lesser undead work in D&D to assume that all undead are animated by demons from hell (well OK, spirits from the negative material plane for the D&D rules) and if there are any exceptions they are special rewards granted by the powers of Evil.

It's actually thinking Durkon is the same person, with a forced alignment change that doesn't actually matter, that's the weird case. I blame it on the legacy of playable monsters. Once upon a time everybody would know that just being corrupted by evil, let alone actually transformed into a monster, would mean you wouldn't share goals or retain any regard for your past social relationships.

Edit: It may be relevant that nobody was confused enough to think Roy the Bone Golem was Roy returned from the dead with severe brain damage, though there's no obvious reason that *couldn't* have been what happened. I wouldn't be too surprised if somebody eventually points that out.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Belkar is suspicious of Durkon probably because he saw Durkon rise and saw him drain his blood. Belkar doesn't really have a logical basis for his belief though.

[Gift Jeraff]

I don't think there's a single reason.

The others probably have the same suspsicions, but are still clinging to the possibility that it is Durkon. Belkar is less optimistic than they are.

He's emotionally invested in Durkon's death because it was a life-changing experience. His primary emotional response is violence, and who else to lash out at then the walking mockery resulting from Durkon's death?

He saw Durkon outraged by Malack's vampirism, and now suddenly he's OK with being a vampire?

He heard Malack talk about his living counterpart with contempt.

[Jay R]

Belkar likes killing people. But he has learned that he can only get away with it when others agree to that killing.

So he's trying to convince them to agree to the only killing he can currently find any sort of justification for.

(No, I don't think that this is the complete explanation, but I do believe that he is led by temperament in this direction.)

[theNater]

One of the ways Belkar identifies people is by smell. Durkula probably smells differently than Durkon did, which would lead Belkar to assume they are different people.

[KyrtFurey]

Is there some reason he shouldn't be?

In 939, Belkar (and everyone else) was willing to accept Durkon as Durkon. Vampirised, deserving of death, yadda yadda yadda...but still Durkon.

In 953....he's stating that Durkon isn't Durkon. He might understandably want to kill Durkon....but the whole "He's not Durkon" routine just seems (to me anyway) to come out of nowhere. HE went from "Yes, he's evil but he's still Durkon" to "He's not Durkon at all"

What changed in those 13 pages? Did I miss something?

It'd be one thing if all it was was he just wanted to kill Durkon. But where did his insight into false Durkon come from?

[Jaxzan Proditor]

In 939, Belkar (and everyone else) was willing to accept Durkon as Durkon. Vampirised, deserving of death, yadda yadda yadda...but still Durkon.

In 953....he's stating that Durkon isn't Durkon. He might understandably want to kill Durkon....but the whole "He's not Durkon" routine just seems (to me anyway) to come out of nowhere. HE went from "Yes, he's evil but he's still Durkon" to "He's not Durkon at all"

What changed in those 13 pages? Did I miss something?

It'd be one thing if all it was was he just wanted to kill Durkon. But where did his insight into false Durkon come from?

I'm pretty sure his motivations in 939 are the exact same as those currently.

[Kish]

Belkar never said "He's Durkon." 29 strips earlier than 939, he responded to, "That IS Durkon!" with "No, it isn't!"

[theNater]

In 939, Belkar (and everyone else) was willing to accept Durkon as Durkon. Vampirised, deserving of death, yadda yadda yadda...but still Durkon.

Some key points from 939:

: 'Twas na meself when I drank yer blood, lad.
: As opposed to now?

That's Belkar expressing disbelief that Durkula is the same as Durkon.

A little later, when the rest of the party is treating Durkula like Durkon with new appetites, we get:

: You're nuts. You've all gone crazy...

Again, this suggests he does not believe Durkula is Durkon.

[TurtlesAWD]

Belkar heard, if I recall, the thing Malak said about resurrecting him being a complicated way of killing who Malak was today. This may have given Belkar the idea that a vampire is different than the living person it originated from, at least enough that if they want the old durkon back, it requires killing the vampire.

[Jay R]

Do we need to search for a complicated reason why Belkar wants to kill someone?

Really?

[Reddish Mage]

The only way to explain Belkar's outrage at Durkula, and firm conviction "it" isn't Durkon involves assuming very non-Belkarish emotions and motives. Just look at how he argues here.

[strijder20]

The only way to explain Belkar's outrage at Durkula, and firm conviction "it" isn't Durkon involves assuming very non-Belkarish emotions and motives. Just look at how he argues here.

That page also reveals that Belkar thinks the vampire is something entirely different and not just a subverted version of Durkon, which he would hate because it is 'not really Durkon':

What about Durkon?
That IS Durkon!
No it isn't!!

[ElenionAncalima]

The others probably have the same suspsicions, but are still clinging to the possibility that it is Durkon. Belkar is less optimistic than they are.

I think this is a big factor. The other characters all cared a lot about Durkon, so they want to accept that he is alive and unchanged (thats a -5 to sense motive, right there ).

Belkar's feelings towards Durkon were probably somewhere is the apathy to dislike range, so he is not so easily manipulated. While it is possible Durkon's final act made him a little more invested in the cleric's fate, Belkar being Belkar is still more likely to repond to these new feelings with distrust and violence. Durkon not being himself allows Belkar to have it both ways. He can be angry towards him, without dealing with the fact that saved his life.

[b_jonas]

One of the ways Belkar identifies people is by smell. Durkula probably smells differently than Durkon did, which would lead Belkar to assume they are different people.

That, yes. The vampire Durkon smells different because he takes baths and doesn't drink beer.

[Emperordaniel]

That, yes. The vampire Durkon smells different because he takes baths and doesn't drink beer.

Wouldn't immersion in tap water kill the HPoH?

[Kish]

Vampires die from immersion in running water. They're not Ozian witches, to melt if someone dumps a bucket of washwater over them.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

How well would one be able to take a bath while on an airship anyways?

[Emperordaniel]

How well would one be able to take a bath while on an airship anyways?

Recycle the water over and over again.

[rbetieh]

I'm missing something...

Why is Belkar suspicious of Durkon to the point he believes that Durkon isn't Durkon?

It's the cat. Belkar hates knows its not the same person because of the cats behavior towards him. I always found it interesting that Belkar was given a cat animal companion anyways....

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Recycle the water over and over again.

You'd think they'd need most of their water to drink, wouldn't you?

[evileeyore]

You'd think they'd need most of their water to drink, wouldn't you?

Being an airship they have far greater access to water for drinking than a traditional blue water ship.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Being an airship they have far greater access to water for drinking than a traditional blue water ship.

In what way?

(Although, come to think of it, they have a Cleric who can cast Create Food and Water and fix any water shortages they have)

[137beth]

Recycle the water over and over again.

No need, Create Water is a 0th level spell.

[evileeyore]

In what way?

Have you ever looked at a real world map and seen just how many rivers and streams there are in any given 50 mile stretch of land (not talking uninhabitable deserts and badlands)?

Let me clue you in... lots.

Now compare that to how much potable water you find in any 50 mile stretch of the ocean...

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Have you ever looked at a real world map and seen just how many rivers and streams there are in any given 50 mile stretch of land (not talking uninhabitable deserts and badlands)?

Let me clue you in... lots.

Now compare that to how much potable water you find in any 50 mile stretch of the ocean...

Well, given that they're flying over the ocean currently, how much land do you think is there in any 50 mile stretch of the ocean?

[evileeyore]

Well, given that they're flying over the ocean currently, how much land do you think is there in any 50 mile stretch of the ocean?

Sure. Right now...



I had to check the archive to see what they were flying over... I forgot the Elven/Desert continent and the "main" continent were separate.