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2014-06-16, 08:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
There is a difference between not liking something and hating it. An asexual person that has sex with a partner chooses to have sex, he/she is not forced.
At least that's how I understand it.
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2014-06-16, 08:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2012
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- Italy
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
Ok, but sex is not just like any other activity. It's something deep and personal so you can't really compare it to something like "Hey, I know you don't like this movie but come and see it with me anyway, ok?". If someone isn't interested in sex you probably shouldn't be having sex with this someone in the first place.
At least, that's my understanding of consent. Consent can be given but the act can still be "forced", know what I mean?
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2014-06-16, 08:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2013
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
But that would still be your impression, not an objective assessment of the situation. If a person does something, you can't really know the reason why, you can only trust what that person is saying. If she agrees to have sex with you and says that she wants to do it you can't really know if she really wants to do it or if she is doing what she thinks you want.
Besides, wanting to do something is only one of many reasons to do something. Someone might like watering plants (stupid example, but it should illustrate my point), some people might do it for money and some might do it as favor. As long as they agree to do it, there is no violation. But I do agree that I could never have sex with someone who is not sexually attracted to me.
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2014-06-16, 09:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2011
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- France
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
Yeah, huh, sex is one of those things that's very complicated.
There are people for whom sexuality is very important. They won't consent have sex with anyone they don't desire to have sex with, period.
There are people who mostly see sex as just one more thing that humans do that can be fun, and will treat it much the same way as seeing a movie or going to the restaurant. Just an act that can be subject to compromises, and that one can "suck up" if it turns out to be bad. (They probably don't see sexual intercourse as such a deep and personal act, too.)
And then, there's a truckload different shades between those two, due to culture and personal preferences.
As a rule of thumb, when it comes to consent, it's better to assume people are closer to the former end of the spectrum, but the fact is still that in reality, there are times where the act won't feel forced for anybody, or at least not anymore than one might feel forced to try out a dish when they're invited to a restaurant whose cuisine is not particularly appreciated.Originally Posted by on Dwarf Fortress succession gamesOriginally Posted by Dwarf Fortress 0.40.01 bugs
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2014-06-16, 09:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2012
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- Italy
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
One would assume that an asexual person would admit of being asexual to his partner, hence why I said that I don't understand how a relationship with an asexual person that includes sex could be healthy. It's certanly something s/he doesn't want, by definition of being asexual.
I would have problems asking my grilfriend to perform any activity that I knew she wasn't interested in, asking her to have sex when she says she doesn't feel like it? I wouldn't even think about it. Sex is something you do in 2 (or 3, or 4, or more... ), if you are the only one interested you might as well masturbate.
That's my opinion on it at least...
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2014-06-16, 11:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2011
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
No no, not strictly. I was just saying that if someone needs to PM me, they can.
I would imagine that it depends on the asexual person. Not everyone from one group is the exact same as all the others. And yes, they most likely would tell their partner about them being asexual, but that doesn't mean the relationship that may include sex isn't healthy. Relationships aren't about just doing things you want. Sometimes they are about doing things you aren't necessarily into for your partner, because seeing them happy makes you happy. Of course, I am not saying you should force anything on a partner at any point. But part of a relationship is giving up some of yourself to the other person. It sounds worse than it actually is. Giving up part of myself to my wife and putting aside my pride to do things she wants to do makes me happy, because it makes her happy. Logic dictates I should be miserable, but I just can't seem to find myself in that state.
But like I said, not everyone is the same, so there may very well be some unhealthy relationships that asexuals find themselves in from time to time. It just all depends on the individual and their view on sex. Whether they actually dislike it, or if it is more of a "if I have it, fine....if I don't, fine" kind of a thing.My Extended Signature, Check it out!
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2014-06-16, 11:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2012
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
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2014-06-16, 11:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2006
Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
There is something I've wondered: does anyone know why the Playground's openly transgender population is, as far as I can tell, mostly male-to-female?
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2014-06-16, 11:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2012
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
Last edited by Miriel; 2014-06-16 at 11:59 AM.
Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul, ash nazg thrakatulûk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.
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2014-06-16, 12:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2008
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
Actually we don't really know if that's true, statistics vary a ton on it.
My guess is that gaming is seen as a more appropriate form of escapism for people who are perceived to be boys than it is for those who are perceived to be girls. Also the only thing we know is that there are more openly trans women on gitp than openly trans men, we don't know the real ratio.
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2014-06-16, 12:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2006
Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
Thank you.
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2014-06-16, 12:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2012
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
Not for me, I make it a point to never compromise my ideals or opinions for anyone, nor I would ever expect or demand the same to my girlfriend. Plus, I can't really imagine sex without passion or, at the very least, lust. If I can't make my partner feel something more then just mechanical stimulation then I wouldn't want to have sex.
But I realize that I'm in the minority about this, so... Allright. I guess what you are saying makes sense, even if it's opposed to my personal ideals.
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2014-06-16, 12:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2012
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
Perhaps, but all the research or statistics I've seen or heard of go roughly in the same direction. Personally, I've observed several communities of trans people, and trans women tend strongly to be the majority, while non-binary people are more often FAAB. Of course, this may say more about the communities than about the actual number of trans men -- but then, we're talking about a community in the first place here.
Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul, ash nazg thrakatulûk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.
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2014-06-16, 12:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2006
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- Eastern US
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
Just to add to this...
There do seem to be more MtFs than FtMs in society. I have two ideas why that may be.
1) It is more socially acceptable to be a masculine woman than a feminine man. For those people who are equally balanced between deciding to transition or not, a feminine MAAB is more likely to transition, while a masculine FAAB will continue to present as a masculine woman.
2) There's actually an equal number, but FtMs are more likely to be stealth, so it seems like there are more MtFs.Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.
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2014-06-16, 12:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2011
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
All of the trans people I know IRL are FtM, save for one. So ya know, it all depends lol
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2014-06-16, 12:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2006
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- Dinosaur Museum aw yisss.
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
I can do that, too. In particular, I think I've had some success in explaining transsexuality from a somewhat different perspective to what others often do.
I think the MTF and FTM people I've known, IRL and online, is roughly split, with a slight tip towards MTF.
On a purely subjective and not-at-all-relevant-to-their-value incidental note, I think pretty much all of the FTM people I've known have been pretty gorg <.<
(if you're a trans man, and I've met or seen pictures of you, yes this almost certainly includes you)Last edited by Serpentine; 2014-06-16 at 01:39 PM.
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2014-06-16, 01:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
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- Bottom of a well
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2014-06-16, 02:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2009
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- North California
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
If you need me somewhere, don't hesitate to PM me. I have bad mental health days sometimes, so if I vanish that's probably why. PMs will help break me out of that.
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2014-06-16, 03:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2011
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
Trans demographics: I've met two trans guys and one trans girl in real life, plus a couple of nonbinary people. In other words, I don't have any actual statistics to pull out right now and I'm too lazy to look some up.
(Well, not lazy. Tired. We spent a good three hours cutting a cat's leg off today. That's exhausting even if you're not the one with the scalpel.)
Ace stuff: I forget what I was going to answer, so I'll be lazy here too. How about you go check out some old threads on the AVEN forum (when it comes back up, it was having more SQL problems a little while ago at least for me). Try the "Asexual Relationships" and "For Sexual Partners &c." boards. Maybe a bit of the "The Grey Area, Sex, &c." board.Jude P.
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2014-06-16, 03:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
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- Xin-Shalast
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
So, this came up in RWA a bit earlier, but this seems a more appropriate venue to double check what the current mores are; what's the etiquette about inquiring as to someone else's identity/orientation in the context of a GSA or similar groups?
Without anything highly suspect or just plain wrong going on, such as bribery or coercion.
There's compromise and then there's compromise and if you can't tell them apart you're in for a bad time as every time you disagree about where to grab dinner you end up having a break up.
Admittedly, there's some issues with semantics, connotations, and definitions being a bit fiddly in this arena.
My guess would be that it's a complex mix between tendencies towards getting involved with D&D culture, an enjoyment of the kind of webcomic OotS is, and the social dynamics that formed here on GITP when the LGBT thread was still shaking itself out. There's some other factors I'm probably forgetting, and I have no idea what weight each would have.
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2014-06-16, 04:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2012
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul, ash nazg thrakatulûk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.
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2014-06-16, 04:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2011
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
"Gay-Straight Alliance." It's a thing some schools have.
Jude P.
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2014-06-16, 04:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
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- Xin-Shalast
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
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2014-06-16, 07:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2008
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- USA
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
Trans demographics
I know three FTMs, one AMAB fluid, and one person who I strongly suspect is MTF but I could be wrong about her.
I believe that what I've read suggests that trans chicks are about twice as common as trans guys but overall only about 1% of the population is dysphoric so it's hard to get a good gauge.
I am by no means an ace, but one thing I've noticed is that my sex is almost entirely about my partner and very little about me. An ace with the same attitude would probably be quite willing to satisfy their partner even if they didn't enjoy it much themselves. Different strokes (no pun intended) for different folks.ze/zir | she/her
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2014-06-17, 12:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
*lots of responses*
And possibly not a LGBTAI+ question, but what is the difference between a romantic relationship with no sex and a particularly close friendship? Taxes?Awesome Iron Chef avatars by Neoseph7! Murkrow avatar of coolness by Introbulus!Spoiler
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2014-06-17, 01:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
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- Bottom of a well
Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
Well, basically because asexuality isn't heteronormative. It's kind of expected that everyone will meet someone of the opposite sex, get married, have 2.5 kids and what have you. Someone who's asexual may not care about the gender of who they marry if they're interested in marriage at all, and it snowballs from there. Consider it if you will the opposite side of bisexuality: bisexuals may well be heteronormative in presentation, but our orientation does not imply it in the automatic fashion that is assumed by our culture.
As for a romantic relationship... Most of my romantic relationships haven't involved sex, but there was very definitely a qualitative difference. Holding hands, kissing, cuddling, and a certain flavor of emotional closeness all played a role, though I can also imagine many of those features going by the wayside if it didn't fit the specific relationship. I mean, if you and your partner lost the ability to have sex, would you lose interest in the romance?
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2014-06-17, 06:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2011
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
"Queer" = "not straight/cis". Asexual isn't heterosexual. Heterosexual is heterosexual.
And possibly not a LGBTAI+ question, but what is the difference between a romantic relationship with no sex and a particularly close friendship? Taxes?Jude P.
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2014-06-17, 06:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2011
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- Somewhere south of Hell
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
To you, yes. There are people – a lot of them – for whom sexual intimacy isn't as intimate as we are taught it is supposed to be. There is a healthy, thriving population of people for whom dating and sex are a combination of social hunting and mutual masturbation. It's not fair to assume that anyone who doesn't hold the same mores as you is morally wrong and deviant. Any conversation that starts with "sex is sacred" is starting with a loaded opinion. I happen to agree, but I also know others don't agree, and that's okay.
Someone quote this so he will see it, s'il vous plaît?
Selection bias, I believe. For one, look at the expected roles; a woman is supposed to be open and social and a man, closed and stoic. A successful stealth FtM will likely be more closed and stoic, and this harder to notice even when not actively hiding. The reverse is also true; finding a place where you can not only find out what's going on but also not engage in what feels like an oppressive and strictly male behavior can be liberating for a MtF.
We've had three transmen show up, but they don't stick around as much.
E: romantic relationships, much like gender, tend to fall apart or fractalate when you look too close. Honestly, the answer as to why a romantic relationship is different from a close friendship is "it's acknowledged as such and has social inertia". We have a strong cultural understanding of romance as a concept but very little for such close friendships, so we naturally lump these things into Romance.
You can still find close friendships that are romantic but not relationships in the capital R sense, usually in stories like "I have Johnny's name tattood on me. He was a navy buddy. If you went through what we went through, you'd understand"
I can say that a lot if my friendships are too close, however. After some recontextualizing it seems clear that I get too involved, and treat friendships like demirelationships. Probably part of why I'm poly.Last edited by SiuiS; 2014-06-17 at 06:44 AM.
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2014-06-17, 07:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2012
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- Germany
Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
Asexual and aromantic people also often get dismissed with the same "reasons" as LGB people:
Spoiler"It's just a phase."
"You just haven't found the right one yet."
"How can you know you don't like it if you haven't tried?"
"You're just confused."
"You're too young to be certain."
"You just want attention."
"You must have been abused as a child."You can call me Juniper. Please use gender-neutral pronouns (ze/hir (preferred) or they/them) when referring to me.
"We all are vessels of our brokenness, we carry it inside us like water, careful not to spill. And what is wholeness if not brokenness encompassed in acceptance, the warmth of its power a shield against those who would hurt us?" - R. Lemberg, Geometries of Belonging
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2014-06-17, 07:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2006
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- Dinosaur Museum aw yisss.
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
I think there's an argument that can be made that if "both"* falls under queer/non-hetero, then so does "neither".
*Or "all" or "whatever" or whateverLast edited by Serpentine; 2014-06-17 at 07:36 AM.
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