New OOTS products from CafePress
New OOTS t-shirts, ornaments, mugs, bags, and more
Page 8 of 49 FirstFirst 12345678910111213141516171833 ... LastLast
Results 211 to 240 of 1462
  1. - Top - End - #211
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Irish Musician's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    A Pub Near You
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!

    I don't understand the strawman thing. Sorry
    My Extended Signature, Check it out!

    DMing:

    Amazing Irish Avatar by Savannah

    My own 5e Bard Subclass
    Made by the awesome Wartex1!

    LGBTA+ Ally

  2. - Top - End - #212
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Athedia's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Keystone of the USA
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    I don't give a damn about most of you. The only reason I'm even responding is because you people are dogpiling me for daring to have a different opinion from Serpentine.

    Damn, I feel like I'm turning into Kalmageddon. Someone help me.


    That's what I have objection to.

    "I don't like your choice of pronoun, so I won't use any at all!"
    We aren't dog-piling. You asked if we would be uncomfortable and we said yes and gave reasons. Then we started getting a lecture on how being uncomfortable is a part of life. I think we all understand it is a part of life, that was never the question. But one of my mentors once taught me a lesson, "Never ask a question if you aren't willing to listen to all answers."

    I respect that you have a different opinion. I may not share it but opinions are personal so who am I to judge yours. All I ask in return is for you to respect my opinion and those of other posters. I think I was the main person saying I wouldn't use pronouns. But that isn't just toward the pronoun "it", it goes goes for all pronouns in reference to other people. It isn't spiteful, it is compromise. It is a first step on the way toward them getting used to your pronoun.

    In other words, don't force us into the deep end while we are learning to swim. Let us get used to the water and holding our breath and while it may take time and work on both our parts we can eventually swim there.
    Moved my stuff over to HERE!

  3. - Top - End - #213
    Banned
     
    Jormengand's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    In the Playground, duh.

    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Athedia View Post
    I think I was the main person saying I wouldn't use pronouns.
    I don't; I think Serpentine was. This is not about you. I do not have an objection to you. This. Is. Not. Your. War.

  4. - Top - End - #214
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    First, look up "Denying the antecedent."
    Tsk. Nope. Wikipedia to the rescue.
    The fallacy:
    "If P, then Q.
    Not P.
    Therefore, not Q."

    My argument:
    "In the English language, only objects, etc., are referred to by 'it'
    You are not an object.
    Therefore, you are not referred to by 'it' in the English language."

    It's something like
    "Only A is B.
    C is not A.
    Therefore, C is not B."

    Which is, AFAIK, a valid syllogism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    Third, male and female gender always used to be used for assignment at birth... I feel like I'm repeating myself. Oh wait, I'm repeating myself. What a surprise.
    That's social, not linguistic change.
    Ash nazg durbatulūk, ash nazg gimbatul, ash nazg thrakatulūk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.

  5. - Top - End - #215
    Colossus in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Dinosaur Museum aw yisss.
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    You have said numerous times that you would avoid using pronouns completely if I insisted, as I quite rightly do, on you using my chosen ones.
    It is extremely unlikely that I could successfully completely avoid using it (and that was perhaps an unfortunate inclusion in my original post), and where I could not avoid it, I would try to use your preferred "it", but considering, again, all that background, I would expect understanding in turn if I sometimes got it wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    This is offensive to me.
    That is unfortunate. I am not inclined to alter my stance as a consequence, but if I were discussing this with one of my friends whom I might actually refer to in the third person to others, it is likely that... well, the above would be the result, as I got used to using the word outside of the oft-repeated connotations and abuse.

    edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by Athedia View Post
    We aren't dog-piling. You asked if we would be uncomfortable and we said yes and gave reasons. Then we started getting a lecture on how being uncomfortable is a part of life. I think we all understand it is a part of life, that was never the question. But one of my mentors once taught me a lesson, "Never ask a question if you aren't willing to listen to all answers."

    I respect that you have a different opinion. I may not share it but opinions are personal so who am I to judge yours. All I ask in return is for you to respect my opinion and those of other posters. I think I was the main person saying I wouldn't use pronouns. But that isn't just toward the pronoun "it", it goes goes for all pronouns in reference to other people. It isn't spiteful, it is compromise. It is a first step on the way toward them getting used to your pronoun.

    In other words, don't force us into the deep end while we are learning to swim. Let us get used to the water and holding our breath and while it may take time and work on both our parts we can eventually swim there.
    *thumbsup*

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    I don't; I think Serpentine was. This is not about you. I do not have an objection to you. This. Is. Not. Your. War.
    I listed a number of people who expressed that opinion, or something similar, before me. I imagine you're fixating on me because I did it on the page you happened to view first, but I'm not actually the only one, nor the first.
    There is no war, unless it is of your own making.
    Last edited by Serpentine; 2014-06-18 at 10:52 AM.

  6. - Top - End - #216
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Athedia's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Keystone of the USA
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Marnath View Post
    Q: Does asexuality count as something you can "be in the closet" about? I'm not really sure whether it does or not since it's technically an absence rather than the presence of a non-hetero sexuality? I don't consider myself to be in a closet, but then again I don't tell people in real life, either.
    Yes. Absolutely. I am a half in the closet asexual and most ace's I know are still hiding with the mothballs. It really is personal if you believe yourself in the closet, but I know in certain areas I at least do not reveal my asexual status for fear of repercussions.
    Moved my stuff over to HERE!

  7. - Top - End - #217
    Banned
     
    Jormengand's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    In the Playground, duh.

    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Enrico Dandolo View Post
    Which is, AFAIK, a valid syllogism.


    That's social, not linguistic change.
    "If it is a lamp, use "It"
    You are not a lamp.
    Therefore do not use "It""
    Is an invalid syllogism.

    Yeah, well I am part of society, even if you'd rather I wasn't. Get used to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Serpentine View Post
    That is unfortunate. I am not inclined to alter my stance as a consequence.
    So you are not, in fact, prepared to use my preferred pronouns? So I'm right? Yay, bring out the confetti and fanfares; we're done here.

  8. - Top - End - #218
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Philemonite's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    I don't; I think Serpentine was. This is not about you. I do not have an objection to you. This. Is. Not. Your. War.
    Seriously?
    Spoiler: Quotes
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Xhosant View Post
    This is evil, evil GMing. Brilliant, good sir!

    LGBTAitP
    Philemon avatar by the awesome Morbis Meh.
    Suikoden Tabletop-Work in progress

  9. - Top - End - #219
    Banned
     
    Jormengand's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    In the Playground, duh.

    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Asteron Questar View Post
    Seriously?
    Do I really need to explain my metaphors every time I use one? Damn, and I thought I was bad at understanding them.

  10. - Top - End - #220
    Colossus in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Dinosaur Museum aw yisss.
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    So you are not, in fact, prepared to use my preferred pronouns? So I'm right? Yay, bring out the confetti and fanfares; we're done here.
    You are misrepresenting the stance you will not succeed in altering here. As I've said a number of times, I would prefer to make it a moot point in my sentence structure. Where it was unavoidable or too unnatural, and as I got used to it, I am fully prepared to use them, but for the most part at least to start it would feel incredibly uncomfortable, unintuitive and unfriendly, so I would expect understanding when I (ACCIDENTALLY) got it wrong.
    Last edited by Serpentine; 2014-06-18 at 10:56 AM.

  11. - Top - End - #221
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Kindablue's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2011

    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Serpentine View Post
    I listed a number of people who expressed that opinion, or something similar, before me. I imagine you're fixating on me because I did it on the page you happened to view first, but I'm not actually the only one, nor the first.
    There is no war, unless it is of your own making.
    I also said I wouldn't use "it" a full page before you did. I completely agree with Siosilver's "******" argument.
    ... I came to appreciate that mountains make poor receptacles for dreams.

  12. - Top - End - #222
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Athedia's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Keystone of the USA
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    So you are not, in fact, prepared to use my preferred pronouns? So I'm right? Yay, bring out the confetti and fanfares; we're done here.
    I read multiple times that Serpentine would try to use your prefered pronouns when needed. But that point aside, we will probably never meet in real life. This was never a war, never a battle.
    Moved my stuff over to HERE!

  13. - Top - End - #223
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    "If it is a lamp, use "It"
    You are not a lamp.
    Therefore do not use "It""
    Is an invalid syllogism.
    Please do place every specific thing I say within my whole thought on the subject, instead of singling out my rhetorics by eliminating context.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    Yeah, well I am part of society, even if you'd rather I wasn't. Get used to it.
    ... What?

    You're pulling a Miko here.
    Ash nazg durbatulūk, ash nazg gimbatul, ash nazg thrakatulūk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.

  14. - Top - End - #224
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Philemonite's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    Do I really need to explain my metaphors every time I use one? Damn, and I thought I was bad at understanding them.
    No, I think I get it.
    Spoiler: Quotes
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Xhosant View Post
    This is evil, evil GMing. Brilliant, good sir!

    LGBTAitP
    Philemon avatar by the awesome Morbis Meh.
    Suikoden Tabletop-Work in progress

  15. - Top - End - #225
    Banned
     
    Jormengand's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    In the Playground, duh.

    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!

    You know what? I give up. Between everyone taking me literally when I say "War" just so they have something else to crap on me from a great height about, to everyone deciding that they are going to avoid using any pronouns at all just because I use one they don't like, I quit. I don't care. Because anyone who disrespects my right to be called what I want, even if they don't call me anything else, is no longer worth my time.

    If you're not even going to do me that courtesy, I don't feel the need to listen to what you say. It's insulting, it's offensive, and although you have the right to call me what you want, I don't have the duty to listen to you insulting me. So have fun.

  16. - Top - End - #226
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Kindablue's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2011

    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!

    "if you are LGBT+ but do not wish to educate people, or are likely to be offended by the lack of knowledge of some people, you're probably better off not reading this thread."
    ... I came to appreciate that mountains make poor receptacles for dreams.

  17. - Top - End - #227
    Banned
     
    Jormengand's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    In the Playground, duh.

    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kindablue View Post
    "if you are LGBT+ but do not wish to educate people, or are likely to be offended by the lack of knowledge of some people, you're probably better off not reading this thread."
    See, that's why I'm going. I was trying to educate people that I do actually have the same rights as them, but you know what? It's not just offensive lack of knowledge, it's offensive deliberate insults. I'm giving up, unless someone is actually willing to debate like a civil individual.

    Any takers?

  18. - Top - End - #228
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Athedia's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Keystone of the USA
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!

    Q: So stupid question but my brother asked me to explain the difference between bi and pan yesterday and I did my best but I was wondering if people could clarify?
    Moved my stuff over to HERE!

  19. - Top - End - #229
    Colossus in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Dinosaur Museum aw yisss.
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!

    I'm not sure how I can better explain that I wasn't saying or doing that...
    Oh well. Question asked, answer given, debate course run.

    Next!

  20. - Top - End - #230
    Banned
     
    Jormengand's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    In the Playground, duh.

    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Athedia View Post
    Q: So stupid question but my brother asked me to explain the difference between bi and pan yesterday and I did my best but I was wondering if people could clarify?
    This is one which has been the subject of much argument. The main two ideas are "Bi means only girls or guys, pan means everything" and "Bi means that guys are guy-attractive, and girls are girl-attractive, pan means that gender is irrelevant when considering partners." Take your pick.

  21. - Top - End - #231
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Athedia View Post
    Q: So stupid question but my brother asked me to explain the difference between bi and pan yesterday and I did my best but I was wondering if people could clarify?
    Oooooh, that's a big one

    In practice, bi and pan people seem to have more or less the same attractions, i.e. everyone. Pan is just more explicit to express inclusiveness.
    Ash nazg durbatulūk, ash nazg gimbatul, ash nazg thrakatulūk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.

  22. - Top - End - #232
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Kindablue's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2011

    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    See, that's why I'm going. I was trying to educate people that I do actually have the same rights as them, but you know what? It's not just offensive lack of knowledge, it's offensive deliberate insults. I'm giving up, unless someone is actually willing to debate like a civil individual.

    Any takers?
    Nope. I guess you'll have to leave us to our barbarism.
    Last edited by Kindablue; 2014-06-18 at 11:13 AM.
    ... I came to appreciate that mountains make poor receptacles for dreams.

  23. - Top - End - #233
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Athedia's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Keystone of the USA
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    See, that's why I'm going. I was trying to educate people that I do actually have the same rights as them, but you know what? It's not just offensive lack of knowledge, it's offensive deliberate insults. I'm giving up, unless someone is actually willing to debate like a civil individual.

    Any takers?
    Placing this seperately from my question. This is a discussion not a debate thread. We never said you don't have the same rights, we just asked that ours were not ignored in favor of you. There were not deliberate insults, maybe some poorly worded posts on both sides that raised tensions. There was never a question about rights, there was a question of whether we felt comfortable.

    You have a right to many things, but not one to regulate the speech of others. Just as I can't order my religious friends not to pray for me because it makes me uncomfortable, you can not decide how my private conversations are dictated. All we can do is request that our preferences are remembered and respected, but we can't enforce anything.
    Moved my stuff over to HERE!

  24. - Top - End - #234
    Colossus in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Dinosaur Museum aw yisss.
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Athedia View Post
    Q: So stupid question but my brother asked me to explain the difference between bi and pan yesterday and I did my best but I was wondering if people could clarify?
    Hoooo boy. You picked a doozy there.
    Spoiler: My personal opinion - likely to be disputed
    Show
    "Bisexual" people are interested in men and women, and/or not just one sex or gender. This may or may not include cis people, trans people, genderqueer, agender and all the various other combinations and categories.
    "Pansexual" is a more accurate synonym for "bisexual". It explicitly acknowledges that gender is not a binary, and that the person's range of attraction potentially includes the full scope of the sex and gender spectrum(s).

    Sexuality refers to the people you're attracted to, not the reason why you're attracted to them - that's a different set of categories. In practice, pansexual and bisexual encompasses the same subset (or superset) of people, and so are functionally equivalent (except, I suppose, in the case of a bisexual who explicitly excludes non-binary people from their subset).

  25. - Top - End - #235
    Banned
     
    Jormengand's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    In the Playground, duh.

    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Athedia View Post
    Placing this seperately from my question. This is a discussion not a debate thread. We never said you don't have the same rights, we just asked that ours were not ignored in favor of you. There were not deliberate insults, maybe some poorly worded posts on both sides that raised tensions. There was never a question about rights, there was a question of whether we felt comfortable.

    You have a right to many things, but not one to regulate the speech of others. Just as I can't order my religious friends not to pray for me because it makes me uncomfortable, you can not decide how my private conversations are dictated. All we can do is request that our preferences are remembered and respected, but we can't enforce anything.
    Of course I can't enforce anything, but nor can I force people not to call me a t****y d**e, it's just kinda expected that they don't. If they feel "Uncomfortable" refraining from doing so, that's really their problem and not mine.

  26. - Top - End - #236
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Heliomance's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    Of course I can't enforce anything, but nor can I force people not to call me a t****y d**e, it's just kinda expected that they don't. If they feel "Uncomfortable" refraining from doing so, that's really their problem and not mine.
    There is something of a difference between asking people not to call you a deeply degrading term ("t****y d**e") and asking people to call you a deeply degrading term ("it").
    Quotebox
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalirren View Post
    The only person in the past two pages who has known what (s)he has been talking about is Heliomance.
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    I just don't want to have long romantic conversations or any sort of drama with my computer, okay? It knows what kind of porn I watch. I don't want to mess that up by allowing it to judge any of my choices in romance.

    Avatar by Rain Dragon

    Wish building characters for D&D 3.5 was simpler? Try HeroForge Anew! An Excel-based, highly automated character builder. v7.4 now out!

  27. - Top - End - #237
    Banned
     
    Jormengand's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    In the Playground, duh.

    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Heliomance View Post
    There is something of a difference between asking people not to call you a deeply degrading term ("t****y d**e") and asking people to call you a deeply degrading term ("it").
    But see, I find "They" and "Ze" to be degrading, moreso than it (Which I do not, truth be told, find at all degrading). That's just my personal opinion, sure, but given that the required level of effort to acquiesce to my wishes is precisely zero (or less - "they" miiight have a slightly longer vowel sound than "It", but that's not the point) it seems nonsensical that they should object to it.

  28. - Top - End - #238
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Heliomance's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!

    Can I ask an honest question? No attack is intended here, I am genuinely interested in your answer. If you had a friend who asked you to refer to them as "c**t", what would your response be?
    Quotebox
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalirren View Post
    The only person in the past two pages who has known what (s)he has been talking about is Heliomance.
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    I just don't want to have long romantic conversations or any sort of drama with my computer, okay? It knows what kind of porn I watch. I don't want to mess that up by allowing it to judge any of my choices in romance.

    Avatar by Rain Dragon

    Wish building characters for D&D 3.5 was simpler? Try HeroForge Anew! An Excel-based, highly automated character builder. v7.4 now out!

  29. - Top - End - #239
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Kindablue's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2011

    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    But see, I find "They" and "Ze" to be degrading, moreso than it (Which I do not, truth be told, find at all degrading). That's just my personal opinion, sure, but given that the required level of effort to acquiesce to my wishes is precisely zero (or less - "they" miiight have a slightly longer vowel sound than "It", but that's not the point) it seems nonsensical that they should object to it.
    Generally when you use pronouns for people, you're talking about them to other people, and those people will assume that you're insulting the it, making you look like an asshat unless you explain this eccentricity to everyone you talk about this person to.
    ... I came to appreciate that mountains make poor receptacles for dreams.

  30. - Top - End - #240
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    France
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!

    On asexuals being in the closet: absolutely, it can happen. I suspect that there are more male asexuals in the closet than female ones, considering guys are pretty much always expected to at least attempt to get laid. Female asexuality is at least somewhat acknowledged and not so widely considered to be abnormal (though criticized and usually called "frigidity").
    On bi vs. pan: one needs to keep in mind that the term "bisexuality" was coined first, and was invented at a time when there was believed to be only two genders. Therefore, back then, it did functionally mean "attracted to all genders". Now more people are aware there are more genders out there than male and female, pansexuality has turned out to be etymologically more correct.
    There is theoretically a case to be made for bi vs. pan in the case of a person who's attracted to two genders, but not the most common ones (for example, someone who's attracted to agender and genderfluid people); that'd etymologically make them bisexual, not pansexual. I've yet to encounter such a case, though, and the fact terms like "trisexual" or "quadrisexual" haven't caught on anywhere that I know of may hint it's not much of a thing.
    (I personally think the two are identical in meaning, but favor "bisexual" because it's more widely understood than "pansexual". My boyfriend, for the record, labels himself as bisexual, but considering his stance on gender, it's probably identical in meaning to those here who label themselves as pansexual.)
    Quote Originally Posted by on Dwarf Fortress succession games
    I have no idea where anything is. I have no idea what anything does. This is not merely a madhouse designed by a madman, but a madhouse designed by many madmen, each with an intense hatred for the previous madman's unique flavour of madness.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dwarf Fortress 0.40.01 bugs
    - If an adventurer shouts and nobody is around to hear it, the game crashes
    - War Dogs appear to run from themselves in terror
    - New tree generation frequently causes birds to explode

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •