General Exalted Discussion XVI: Chej Kejak, Pokegod Trainer!

[Lord Raziere]

Jukashi has stated on multiple occasions that he would like to continue Keychain at some point, and as someone who followed Polokoa quest I think his hand is doing well enough that he could do it easily, albeit with a 'done when it's done' update schedule like oots.

I wouldn't hold my breath for it, though.

yeah, this is why I still have Keychain bookmarked. I'm not holding my breath or anything, but I still await Keychain's return. its what got me into Exalted. too bad according to people outside this forum, that Keychain is nowhere near accurate. oh well.

Oh Well.

[Aquatosic]

yeah, this is why I still have Keychain bookmarked. I'm not holding my breath or anything, but I still await Keychain's return. its what got me into Exalted. too bad according to people outside this forum, that Keychain is nowhere near accurate. oh well.

Oh Well.

It isn't? Crap. I think I know why now that I have read the corebook though. I would call artistic license on all the discrepancies, though. They are definitely things that I would see an ST changing for his or her campaign, instead of blatant errors.

Except for the fact that Misho can know both Solar Circle Sorcery and Necromancy of an unknown circle. That's just unfair.

[Kobold-Bard]

Guancyto was right! That is awesome! Poor Misho is going to be devastated if they ever meet up. Although how you could add any more Body Horror to the Flood is beyond me.

So this means that an unknown number of the 300 Lunar exaltations in the world are caught up in insane nigh-unkillable god-monsters instead of being recycled. Bad for the Celestial Exalted to say the least. Although a Chimera suffering a Heart of Tears Limit Break would just be pathetic and sad.

Great adverts for the Wyld Hunt though..

[Aquatosic]

Great adverts for the Wyld Hunt though..

Oh joy. One more thing that they should really be teaming up against.

[Lord Raziere]

It isn't? Crap. I think I know why now that I have read the corebook though. I would call artistic license on all the discrepancies, though. They are definitely things that I would see an ST changing for his or her campaign, instead of blatant errors.

yeah....in truth, Ten is probably the weakest member of the group in the long term, Misho isn't showing his true capabilities, Secret is a light interpretation of the real Abyssal story, and Lunars are....well they are so incoherent in concept and execution that Marena is actually probably one of the representations of Lunars out there that isn't horrible....and that basically, Keychain's group is sort of finely tuned to make sure there is an artificial balance there that doesn't actually exist. in canon Exalted, Misho and Secret would probably be utterly curbstomping everything that attacks, Ten would probably be struggling just to keep up, and Marena....eh, she'd probably be the same.

but. I don't care. I like it no matter what. if those are changes an ST would make, then I would make those changes.

[Recaiden]

Except for the fact that Misho can know both Solar Circle Sorcery and Necromancy of an unknown circle. That's just unfair.

That's canonically allowed, actually.

Solars (& Infernals sort of) get Sorcery 3 & Necromancy 2
Abyssals get Sorcery 2 & Necromancy 3
Sidereals get Sorcery 2 & Necromancy ??
Lunars get Sorcery 2 & Necromancy 1
DBs get Sorcery 1 OR Necromancy 1
(Alchemicals get nothing )

[Guancyto]

Alchemicals get Protocols, which are categorically superior to everything shy of Solar sorcery anyway (by virtue of having been made later in the gameline).

Alchemical powah! *fist-bumps the nearest Adamant, then forgets doing it*

[Hiro Protagonest]

That's canonically allowed, actually.

Solars (& Infernals sort of) get Sorcery 3 & Necromancy 2
Abyssals get Sorcery 2 & Necromancy 3
Sidereals get Sorcery 2 & Necromancy ??
Lunars get Sorcery 2 & Necromancy 1
DBs get Sorcery 1 OR Necromancy 1
(Alchemicals get nothing )

Alchemicals get Protocols.

Edit: Adamant'd (Operative'd?)

[Aquatosic]

That's canonically allowed, actually.

Solars (& Infernals sort of) get Sorcery 3 & Necromancy 2
Abyssals get Sorcery 2 & Necromancy 3
Sidereals get Sorcery 2 & Necromancy ??
Lunars get Sorcery 2 & Necromancy 1
DBs get Sorcery 1 OR Necromancy 1
(Alchemicals get nothing )

Wait, doesn't advancement in Necromancy inhibit advancement in Sorcery?

[Recaiden]

Wait, doesn't advancement in Necromancy inhibit advancement in Sorcery?

Nope! That wouldn't be fun at all. Especially since both of them are bad!

[Aquatosic]

yeah....in truth, Ten is probably the weakest member of the group in the long term, Misho isn't showing his true capabilities, Secret is a light interpretation of the real Abyssal story, and Lunars are....well they are so incoherent in concept and execution that Marena is actually probably one of the representations of Lunars out there that isn't horrible....and that basically, Keychain's group is sort of finely tuned to make sure there is an artificial balance there that doesn't actually exist. in canon Exalted, Misho and Secret would probably be utterly curbstomping everything that attacks, Ten would probably be struggling just to keep up, and Marena....eh, she'd probably be the same.

but. I don't care. I like it no matter what. if those are changes an ST would make, then I would make those changes.

I have no justification for Secret's problems, but I don't think you would even need houserules to make a Terrestrial of Ten's stature. My personal theory is that he has actually been around and Exalted for centuries, not even counting time spent in compressed training sessions with his Sidereal masters. Also, considering that Keychain's Creation works like the game, Ten was probably a PC throughout all his constant crazy spy adventures, probably gaining about a series worth of experience points. He could have surpassed Essence 6 decades ago.

My sole clues to this are his power and the fact that an Exalt has to be really old to start actually looking old.

[Aquatosic]

Nope! That wouldn't be fun at all. Especially since both of them are bad!

I could swear that the corebook said that learning either one hurt your chances with the other. Was this changed in later errata?

[Drascin]

yeah....in truth, Ten is probably the weakest member of the group in the long term, Misho isn't showing his true capabilities, Secret is a light interpretation of the real Abyssal story, and Lunars are....well they are so incoherent in concept and execution that Marena is actually probably one of the representations of Lunars out there that isn't horrible....and that basically, Keychain's group is sort of finely tuned to make sure there is an artificial balance there that doesn't actually exist. in canon Exalted, Misho and Secret would probably be utterly curbstomping everything that attacks, Ten would probably be struggling just to keep up, and Marena....eh, she'd probably be the same.

but. I don't care. I like it no matter what. if those are changes an ST would make, then I would make those changes.

There is also the fact that most of the characters are pretty likable. I mean, this is a White Wolf RPG, if the character count isn't a minimum of 50% a**holes it's not proper canon

[golentan]

yeah....in truth, Ten is probably the weakest member of the group in the long term, Misho isn't showing his true capabilities, Secret is a light interpretation of the real Abyssal story, and Lunars are....well they are so incoherent in concept and execution that Marena is actually probably one of the representations of Lunars out there that isn't horrible....and that basically, Keychain's group is sort of finely tuned to make sure there is an artificial balance there that doesn't actually exist. in canon Exalted, Misho and Secret would probably be utterly curbstomping everything that attacks, Ten would probably be struggling just to keep up, and Marena....eh, she'd probably be the same.

but. I don't care. I like it no matter what. if those are changes an ST would make, then I would make those changes.

Ten's probably powerful just by superior amount of XP. He's got to be at least essence 5, he could be as high as essence 7. He's got a ton of celestial level martial arts charms (he seems to have mastered all five Immaculate Styles, and if you're not terrified of a man with Drowning in Blood you're a fool, no matter how powerful you may be, or Soul Mastery against foes who don't have their own perfect IS a one hit kill), he's got at least one perfect defense, likely two (Unassailable Body of Air and Bottomless Depths Defense).

If he is Essence 7, he's got a comparable excellency cap to Misho, Karen, and Secret in his fields of expertise (which appears to include kicking ass and taking names), plus a larger base dice pool. He could be a walking person of mass destruction in a way that can only be emulated by top tier powers like Total Annihilation. He certainly felt comfortable holding his own against celestials, including celestials backed by a kill team long enough for the other fighters to show up. And he did it without flaring iconic.

Long term, sure, they'll surpass him. In 50 years or so, he'll be the weak child of the group if he's still kicking around. For now? Low tier does not limit elderly DBs from surpassing celestials.

[TheCountAlucard]

Sidereals and Lunars can initiate as far into necromancy as the first circle. Some houserule Lunars to be able to get second circle necromancy instead of second circle sorcery, and some houserule them to be able to get both.

[Guancyto]

So, I don't know if anyone's come across this yet, but I found a really cool interactive tutorial for Exalted 2e. It's clearly had a lot of love and time put into it and, I feel, does a bang-up job of demonstrating mechanics instead of just telling about them.

http://jyenicolson.net/exalted/sakuya.html

(The larger site is http://jyenicolson.net/exalted/ and has some resources to boot.)

[Sith_Happens]

Whew, narrow miss last night! If it weren't for the Onyx Path Forums, we might not have Seige Lizards in the Ex3 Core!

Siege Crabs >> Siege Lizards

Spoiler: SIEGE CRAB

Show

A flashbang may not be stealth in the classical sense, but boy is it hard to locate the person who threw it.

[NEXT CHARACTER CONCEPT ACQUIRED]

I remember a friend preordering me a copy of the 3rd edition book for my birthday. (well, funding the kickstarter and promising me a copy)

2 birthdays ago.

I'm no longer talking to that person.

We're closing on birthday number three.

You know, with 4,300 backers, assuming a fairly standard adult spread, nearly a hundred backers have died while waiting for it?

Sorry. I'm morbid about some things.

Well there's your problem. You'd be surprised how many causes of death involve going outside, I think us RPG players are good.

Right, sometimes I forget that Exalts can just yell reality into submission.

[saved for future sig-extension]

I am an idiot.

I just realized how Night's fit in with being Chosen of the Unconquered Sun.

its because when the sun sets, The Unconquered Sun is hiding from the world.

it took me this long to figure that out.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME!?

a gorilla can kill hundreds of mortals in a single combat

[Dazhbug]

[NEXT CHARACTER CONCEPT ACQUIRED]

So, uh, a Crystal Chameleon martial artist? Because that's how you get Crystal Chameleon marti-

...

...

Dammit I figured out yet another way to stat up an Exalted version of Pinkie Pie.

PS - Guan that is a super neat thing, thanks for the link.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I think I recognize the name on that tutorial URL. Probably the one that got linked in one of these threads some time ago.

[tonberrian]

Let's be totally fair. Alchemicals can learn sorcery.

They just have to turn into omnicidal maniacs first.

[golentan]

Let's be totally fair. Alchemicals can learn sorcery.

They just have to turn into omnicidal maniacs first.

Actually, they don't.

Gremlin Syndrome is a manageable disease. At low levels, Apostates are no worse than anyone else. If you keep yourself to 1-2 Dissonance, there's no effect outside of fluff. At <5 dissonance, you can still form meaningful relationships and if you're high compassion you're still nicer than many non-gremlin soulsteels, though your cruel streak is less predictable.

It's just easy to go down the slippery slope of "hurting people feels good, so I spend less time just being friendly around mortals, which makes hurting people feel BETTER."

Plus voidtech is a quick road to power, which becomes more tempting the deeper into dissonance you delve.

But, for example, we've got a canonical gremlin-infested Adamant in Herald of the Black Engine who I would describe as a pretty chill dude. His motivation revolves around trying to make it so that the 8 nations can survive when and if Autochthon dies and becomes the engine of extinction. Arguably, admirable. He just... He's trying to help people by getting them to prepare their bodies for the Thunderdome. That is the new law.

[Dazhbug]

But, for example, we've got a canonical gremlin-infested Adamant in Herald of the Black Engine who I would describe as a pretty chill dude. His motivation revolves around trying to make it so that the 8 nations can survive when and if Autochthon dies and becomes the engine of extinction. Arguably, admirable. He just... He's trying to help people by getting them to prepare their bodies for the Thunderdome. That is the new law.

Apparently I really need to get around to reading the Alchemicals splat one of these days.

[The_Snark]

Gremlin Syndrome is... quasi-manageable. If you venture outside of Autochthonia it becomes much harder, since you gain 1 Dissonance every day; and even if you don't, raising Essence tends to involve gaining large amounts of Clarity/Dissonance, since you spend several weeks/months in total sensory deprivation. Once you hit Dissonance 10, it's awfully hard to remember why you wanted to avoid it...

It's not impossible, but it's pretty rough from a player perspective (I've looked into it).

[Hiro Protagonest]

But, for example, we've got a canonical gremlin-infested Adamant in Herald of the Black Engine who I would describe as a pretty chill dude. His motivation revolves around trying to make it so that the 8 nations can survive when and if Autochthon dies and becomes the engine of extinction. Arguably, admirable. He just... He's trying to help people by getting them to prepare their bodies for the Thunderdome. That is the new law.

He's also in the Celestial Compass, since I know who you're talking about and have never read Herald of the Black Engine.

And he's not exactly a great example of "Apostate who is just a normal alchemical except he has to work on keeping dissonance low".

And yes Dazh, you should. Alchemicals are awesome.

[golentan]

Apparently I really need to get around to reading the Alchemicals splat one of these days.

You really do! It's my favorite splat/setting element in many ways, though take the stuff on Autochthonia in the actual alchemicals book with a grain of salt (Celestial Compass fixes everything and makes it amazing).

Gremlin Syndrome is... quasi-manageable. If you venture outside of Autochthonia it becomes much harder, since you gain 1 Dissonance every day; and even if you don't, raising Essence tends to involve gaining large amounts of Clarity/Dissonance, since you spend several weeks/months in total sensory deprivation. Once you hit Dissonance 10, it's awfully hard to remember why you wanted to avoid it...

It's not impossible, but it's pretty rough from a player perspective (I've looked into it).

Like I said, it's a slippery slope when you let it get beyond the basics. Not unlike Robo Cancer itself actually. 1-2, NO PROBLEM! 3-4, it accelerates, and it's really easy for it to go to 5. Hit five, and it's really easy to get to 10, and then everything is lost.

He's also in the Celestial Compass, since I know who you're talking about and have never read Herald of the Black Engine.

And he's not exactly a great example of "Apostate who is just a normal alchemical except he has to work on keeping dissonance low".

And yes Dazh, you should. Alchemicals are awesome.

I meant "in the person of" Herald of the Black Engine. That's his name. He's written up in the Compass, yeah.

[tonberrian]

Of course, both Man-Machine and God-Machine Weaving Engines are Exemplar 1 and cannot be removed, so a gremlin-sorcerer Alchemical with both would be permanently stuck with at minimum 2 Dissonance...

[Milo v3]

I'm considering playing Exalted, but I'm not exactly sure where to start. From what I've heard balance is all over the place, and that you need to read all the flavour or the game will suck.

What am I in for if I try to learn this game?

[ChaosArchon]

I'm considering playing Exalted, but I'm not exactly sure where to start. From what I've heard balance is all over the place, and that you need to read all the flavour or the game will suck.

What am I in for if I try to learn this game?

If you've played nWoD you have general idea of how Exalted should work out. You have attributes, abilities, and roll d10s with 7+ counting as a success. Only thing is whereas in nWoD at chargen you're everyone's little toy, in Exalted you can beat gods and eldlritch abominations (who are actually quite friendly beings, who only want to nibble on a bit of your dreams) at chargen.

As for lore... it can be hit or miss for some parts. Generally speaking I enjoy most of it but there are some bits that you kind of should just ignore such as the first two chapters of Infernals.

[Milo v3]

If you've played nWoD you have general idea of how Exalted should work out. You have attributes, abilities, and roll d10s with 7+ counting as a success. Only thing is whereas in nWoD at chargen you're everyone's little toy, in Exalted you can beat gods and eldlritch abominations (who are actually quite friendly beings, who only want to nibble on a bit of your dreams) at chargen.

As for lore... it can be hit or miss for some parts. Generally speaking I enjoy most of it but there are some bits that you kind of should just ignore such as the first two chapters of Infernals.

We... played three sessions of nWoD and stopped because we didn't know what we were actually supposed to do. Which is one of the main reasons I'm hesitant towards White Wolf Games, the other is all the fluff text that everyone has told me is mandatory.

[ChaosArchon]

We... played three sessions of nWoD and stopped because we didn't know what we were actually supposed to do. Which is one of the main reasons I'm hesitant towards White Wolf Games, the other is all the fluff text that everyone has told me is mandatory.

There's not a ton of fluff in Exalted that is totally mandatory, the main thing is the Exalted beat the Primordials a long time ago and then ruled the world. The Solars went crazy eventually due to a death curse from the Primordials who died (now known as Neverborn), prompting the Sidereals (Chosen of Maidens, the ones who manage Fate among other things) and the Dragonbloods (shock troopers of the Celestial Exalts (Solars, Lunars, & Sidereals), elementally aligned and their Exaltation is genetic whereas the others are limited) to assassinate the entire Solar host (300 Solars) during an event which is known as the Usurpation. Normally the Solar exalations would simply attach themselves to a suitable vessel but the Sidereals built a prison (creatively called the Jade Prison) to contain the exalations instead.

In the interim period between the Usurpation and present day, we have the Great Contagion where approximately 90% of people in Creation died due to a supernatural disease sent by the Deathlords (Solar ghosts who rule the Underworld and are the generals of the Neverborn) as well as the Balorian Crusade, which was where about 40% of Creation was unmade by the raksha (beings from beyond reality, also classic fae folk). The Crusade was ended when the soon to be Scarlet Empress activated the Realm Defense Grid and destroyed the raksha army and then created the Realm and ruled as its sovereign, but by the time the game starts she has vanished and the Realm is on the brink of civil war.

Meanwhile, the Jade Prison is attacked by a joint union of the Neverborn and Yozis (the Primordials who weren't killed, but imprisoned in their king, Malfeas) who manage to steal 150 exhalations (100 of which go to the Neverborn and 50 to the Primordials) which they use to craft their own Exalted, the Abyssals (NB) and Infernals (Yozi). However 150 of the exaltations escape and thus the Solars return to the world.

You are now one such being who got one of these Exaltation, and wield unimaginable power. The world is yours to fix and command... oh and the entire world thinks you're a demon known as an Anathema, the Wyld Hunt (Realm hit-squad that hunts Anathema) wants to kill you, your Lunar mates might have gone insane due to their stint in the Wyld, both Hell and Oblivion are trying to escape their prison or destroy the whole world, and you eventually will go insane. Have fun