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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XVI: Chej Kejak, Pokegod Trainer!

    Since I haven't seen any links to it here, I figured I'd share the following:

    Ink Monkey Bones #6: Damanara of the Azure Banners

    (Ignore the bit about Lunars in the last paragraph. It's noncanonical material from my home game that would have been edited out before posting to the Ink Monkeys blog.)

  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XVI: Chej Kejak, Pokegod Trainer!

    Quote Originally Posted by Clistenes View Post
    Question: Is there any way to turn a normal human into a fae-blood?
    Per the books, it is implied that one can become a Fae-blood via Endowment, though there is, of course, no Charm for that. There is also no CHarm to protec people from the Wyld in GWM or the Errata, despite it being called out as an archetypal (and expensive) ability in Core. Editing and consistency are mockeries.

    If you want to give your pet mortal Raksha abilties, you have a wide range of options.

    - Plain mutations, via Behemoth Forging Meditation and Oneiromancies with Bestial Transformation (temporary)

    - Grace Forging. This does not require Awakened Essence, and allows them to be abused by the Raksha when they wander in the Wyld. It also lets them shape the Wyld, gaining effective protection from its effects in many cases. A Ring (self definition) or Sword (mutation) Grace should help a lot with the risk of random Wyld mutations from wandering there. Interactions with Wyld Questing are, of course, not defined.

    - Endowment. Learn the Custom Charm, have Heart Stopping Numinous Power up, and you're giving your target an Inheritance of at least 2. Find (or create) a suitably powerful Raksha, and you can get to Inheritance 6, which is more than the Sun can do.

    - Grace Forging with Awakened Essence. They can now attune to most forms of Grace Magic, gaining access to a plethora of Raksha Charms. Using Oneiromancies requires the ability to accumulate Gossamer, and there are Adjurations for that (Worker's Gift in a 1-dot Adjuration is 1 committed mote for the ability to gain gossamer when advancing your Motivation).

    - Possession. Create a Fae-blooded child (or get your patron to make you one), mind-wipe it via Soul Consuming Hunger, get an Adjuration granting Assumption of the Person's Heart, and move your puppet body about. Won't be able to use Raksha Charms that require willpower, though. This can also be done in even more horrific ways, of course.

    - Panoply. Attune to a Raksha that has used Extinction of the Self, and gain access to a wide variety of non-Ring charms, which don't even use your own mote pool. Later on, create a Ring Grace for your artifact...

    - Transformation. Get enough Behemoth Forging Meditations to become a minor Behemoth. As a Raksha's Graceless minion and potentially will-less tool, if you have Graces forged for you and opened, you become a full fledged Raksha. With all your past memories on top, of course.

    - Fusion. Find a promising Raksha, grant it Assumption of the Person's Heart, have it become your mortal's conscience made manifest and able to wield Raksha Charms.

  3. - Top - End - #33
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XVI: Chej Kejak, Pokegod Trainer!

    @meschlum:

    I assume there is some kind of demonic pact or synaptic learning that I'd need to go through to understand the full implications of your posts. Regardless, it sounds like a certain blend of genius and madness, and, as you might imagine, I am desperate to know how you came to understand or comprehend, commune or meld with GWM. Is there a GWM for Idiots or a handbook for Raksha? I keep trying to read that book. Where do I start? Every time I go for it, I get a couple pages in and realize that I don't remember what the book has been about these last few pages.

    I'm a smart person. Really. But how do I come to greater understanding of Raksha mechanics? Because they are, bar none, my single favorite part of Exalted, and I am in serious need of understanding them so all my in-game BSing on their behalf doesn't display my rampant, passionate bias for everything fae and fair (and not so fair).

    @ everyone else:

    Any insights? GWM hurts my head, but Raksha are awesomesauce fluff. I'm starting to wonder if I am a secret Raksha-kon or something; literally, lucid dreaming makes up a big part of my life, and the fluff for the Wyld is like my inner landscape every night.

    Help a person out with your own thoughts and experiences with Raksha and their mechanics. Shape for me a tale, and let us all share in it via the Waypoint known as the internet.
    In my dreams, I am currently a druid 20/wizard 10/arcane hierophant 10/warshaper 5. Actually, after giving birth to a galaxy by splitting a black hole, level is no longer relevant.

    Extended Sigbox

    Quote Originally Posted by Keledrath View Post
    I've never been able to put my finger on how to describe you Phelix, but I think I have an idea now.

    You're Tippy's fluffy cousin...

  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XVI: Chej Kejak, Pokegod Trainer!

    Quote Originally Posted by Phelix-Mu View Post
    @ everyone else:

    Any insights? GWM hurts my head, but Raksha are awesomesauce fluff. I'm starting to wonder if I am a secret Raksha-kon or something; literally, lucid dreaming makes up a big part of my life, and the fluff for the Wyld is like my inner landscape every night.

    Help a person out with your own thoughts and experiences with Raksha and their mechanics. Shape for me a tale, and let us all share in it via the Waypoint known as the internet.
    Mostly I hate raksha, though they do occasionally make appearances as antagonists in my game. I'm fond of giving warriors of their kind a combo I call "Immunity to Extras Approach." Give them Imposition of Law and guarantee them a threshold success against anyone not using a stunt or charm. They can chew up extras by the thousands and perfectly parry any attack headed their way without fear... until the heroes show up.
    Last edited by golentan; 2014-06-19 at 10:52 PM.
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    My motto: Repensum Est Canicula.

    Quote Originally Posted by turkishproverb View Post
    I am not getting into a shootout with Golentan. Too many gun-arms.
    Leiningen will win, even if he must lose in the attempt.

    Credit to Astrella for the new party avatar.

  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XVI: Chej Kejak, Pokegod Trainer!

    Quote Originally Posted by Phelix-Mu View Post
    @ everyone else:

    Any insights? GWM hurts my head, but Raksha are awesomesauce fluff. I'm starting to wonder if I am a secret Raksha-kon or something; literally, lucid dreaming makes up a big part of my life, and the fluff for the Wyld is like my inner landscape every night.

    Help a person out with your own thoughts and experiences with Raksha and their mechanics. Shape for me a tale, and let us all share in it via the Waypoint known as the internet.
    Phelix-Mu, I have tried to understand Raksha stuff....it ain't easy....but I think I have a document I wrote when I was going through GWM that simplified and explained some things....

    Spoiler: Figuring Out Oneiromancy
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    Inward-Facing Dream: Affects Only Self

    Outward-Facing Glamour: Affects people who see it or come within its area.

    Circles
    Waking: 10
    Dreaming: 11
    Desire: 13
    Samadhi: 15
    Shinma: 18

    Glamour Points are detailed at end of the description.

    List of Assumptions:

    Element Shape
    Bestial Visage
    Dreams and Passion
    Cerements and Bone:
    These four give the glamour physical shape. (1)

    Persons Heart: Target one person (1)
    Lands Heart: Tiny village/25 people (2)
    City's Heart: 1000 people (4)
    Living Kingdom: 100,000 people (6)
    These all increase range

    Wyld-Tainted Land: allows wyld-shaping effects at +5 difficulty within area equal to City's Heart, boundary must be 20% connected to Bordermarch. (6)

    Terrible Wonderland Infliction: Upgrades Wyld-Tainted Land to Bordermarches/Middlemarches/Deep Wyld/Pure Chaos depending on how many times purchased.

    Reign of Wyld Empire: Upgrades Wyld-Tainted Land's range to Living Kingdom.

    Mad God Mien: Makes glamour immune to countermagic. (1)

    Oneiromantic Benefits:

    Sovereign Element Shape: outward-facing glamour, adds three dice to all instances of pre-defined action within range of effect. (3) Subtle Wraith (3)

    World-Angering Elemental Mastery: out ward-facing glamour, imposes internal penalty equal to essence on a pre-defined action within range of effect. (3) Unwanted Obsession (3)

    Elemental Transformation: Incorporates charm into inward-facing dreams (2) Bestial (2/3)

    Emotion-Weaving Style: outward-facing glamour, imposes motivation on mortals if they take a certain action, both defined at spells creation. (3)

    Imposition of Law: inward-facing dream, enhances one particular roll in attribute/ability/specialty so that the Raksha gains at least one success. (3)

    Adaptation to Adversity: provides immunity to one pre-selected environmental hazard.
    can be used in either inward-facing dreams or outward-facing glamours. (3)

    Thousand Tiny Hooks Technique: outward-facing glamour, applies charm to all people within range of spell (9)

    Swift Wings of Song: inward-facing dream, add cup rating to join battle rolls. (3)

    Subversion and Transformation Artifice: outward-facing glamour, causes all animals within spells range that do a certain action to gain mutations. (3)

    Devouring Revelation of the Wyld: outward-facing glamour, imposes penalty upon all people within range of effect, as well devouring virtue stuff. (6)

    Gladdening visage: inward-facing dream. (1)

    Heart-Stealing Kiss: outward-facing glamour, steals motes from people by attacking them when they take a pre-defined action within spells range. (3)

    Shiftless Untamed Beauty: outward-facing glamour, addicts mortals to the spell (3)

    Adored By All the World: both inward and outward-facing. improves social status when pre-defined action is taken (2/6)

    Abandoned By All Creatures Curse: outward-facing glamour, ruins social status when certain pre-defined action is taken. (9)

    Heaven Rains Wisdom: inward-facing dream. no lore/occult penalty. can use hearthstones like creation-born, fate against Raksha get penalty. (1)

    The Naming of Secrets: inward-facing dream or outward facing glamour. outwards generate certain contacts when a certain action is taken within spells range. (2/6)

    Fall of Night Shadows the Truth:
    inward-facing Dream: conceals certain type of occurrence when involved.
    outward-facing glamour: conceals certain type of occurrence within range every time it happens
    (3/9)

    Unlimited Resplendence:
    inward-facing dream: enhances own fortune
    outward-facing glamour: enhances fortune of anyone who takes certain pre-defined action within range. (2/6)

    Faerie Gold Blessing: outward-facing glamour, enhances fortunes of everyone within range. (9)

    Curse of Definition: outward-facing glamour: defines a certain action which everyone within range will fail. (12)

    Manacles of Virtue: outward-facing glamour, adds temporary dots to grace or virtue to everyone who takes a certain pre-defined action within range. (3)

    Chaotic Soul Sledgehammer: outward-facing glamour, launches cup-shaping attack once per scene at someone who takes a pre-defined action within range. (9)

    Waypoint Knife: outward-facing glamour, prevents entrance into spells range. (3)

    Endless Yawning Void: inward-facing dream. imposes an environmental hazard that deals damage (2)

    Ordinary Object Conjuration:
    Inward-Facing Dream: calls one pre-determined object to hand at will
    Outward-Facing Glamour: generates specific pre-determined object
    (1/3)

    Limitless Wealth Conjuration Technique: both outwards and inwards. enhances wealth (2/6)

    Hateful Coin Curse: outward-facing glamour. impoverishes people (9)

    Behemoth Forging Meditation: outward-facing Glamour, launches staff-shaping attack when predefined action is taken, mutates people. (3)

    Beguilement: inward-facing glamour, Raksha' social attacks become unnatural mental influence. (5)

    Spite-Summoning Malediction: outward-facing glamour. alienates people who take a pre-defined action. (9)

    Prince and Pauper Approach: outward-facing glamour. people who take a certain pre-defined action will start distrusting each other. (3)

    Rarefied Air of Inevitable Victory: inward-facing dream, puts up shield around Raksha.
    (2)

    Gossamer Wing Flight: inward-facing dream, grants wings. (2)

    Unitary Being Force: outward-facing glamour, turns people against each other within range of effect. (3)

    Subtle Hammer: inward-facing dream, hides motivation (1)


    Summary:

    Oneiromancy can be broken down thus:

    first, whether or not its Inward or Outward.

    then, its Physical Assumption, which gives it form, any of such charm will serve equally well, the only difference is aesthetics.

    its Range Assumptions, which enhances and defines the range of outward spells

    its Enhancement Assumptions, which enhances the spells in other ways.

    Then you choose Negative or Positive Effects.

    Positive effects include: more wealth, better social status, more dice, more successes, protective ward, and so on

    Negative effects: less wealth, less social status, less dice, more failure, imposing motivations, and all that.

    Then, you say what Action activates this effect, in the case of Outward glamours.

    Keep in mind, Oneiromancy mostly only affects the mind. things like ordinary object conjuration and gossamer wing flight are exceptions to the rule.

    Furthermore, Oneiromancy seems to be meant for long-term or repeated use rather than any instant one time effect.


    It doesn't explain EVERYTHING, but it does explain oneiromancy, or at least most of it.
    I'm also on discord as "raziere".


  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XVI: Chej Kejak, Pokegod Trainer!

    Quote Originally Posted by meschlum View Post
    - Grace Forging with Awakened Essence. They can now attune to most forms of Grace Magic, gaining access to a plethora of Raksha Charms. Using Oneiromancies requires the ability to accumulate Gossamer, and there are Adjurations for that (Worker's Gift in a 1-dot Adjuration is 1 committed mote for the ability to gain gossamer when advancing your Motivation).

    - Transformation. Get enough Behemoth Forging Meditations to become a minor Behemoth. As a Raksha's Graceless minion and potentially will-less tool, if you have Graces forged for you and opened, you become a full fledged Raksha. With all your past memories on top, of course.
    I think those two only allow you access to feeding charms. I guess a character with Graces and open Maws who has learnt all feeding charms could develope some kind of custom gateway raksha charms that allow him/her to access other kind of raksha charms...

  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XVI: Chej Kejak, Pokegod Trainer!

    Phelix-Mu, please read Errata about Grace Magic. And Raksha in general. It streamlines and adds what comes as sense in Exalted, fair folk stuff in general. Probably you should bother Meschlum. Also, to me personally, Grace Magic started making sense when I first had a concept of what I want to create before applying rules to the concept. If you just brainstorm without clear goal in mind you might be overwhelmed by endless possibilities.

    Also, I have personal bias against Way Grace. Thinking it should die in a fire, but that's me.

    Clistenes, nope ... by GWM rules anyone with Graces can learn all Grace charms, asides from Native Keyworder charms that are reserved for Raksha. Not even Fae Blooded can learn Native Keyword Grace charms, I think.
    Youth and strenght alvays lose to age and treachery.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XVI: Chej Kejak, Pokegod Trainer!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikandur Azebol View Post
    Clistenes, nope ... by GWM rules anyone with Graces can learn all Grace charms, asides from Native Keyworder charms that are reserved for Raksha. Not even Fae Blooded can learn Native Keyword Grace charms, I think.
    But the relevant text in GWM says:

    Quote Originally Posted by Graceful Wicked Masques, page 93
    When a raksha forges a Grace for another being, the recipient instantly gains a corresponding Grace trait, initially rated at 1, and the appropriate shaping damage track. The recipient also gains the capacity to perform shaping actions in the Wyld and can thereafter perform shaping actions appropriate
    to the acquired Grace. If the recipient is an Eclipse Caste, a Moonshadow Caste, a Lunar of any caste (including Casteless Lunars) or a Fae-Blood, he gains the power to learn raksha Charms for which he meets the requirements. The costs for such Charms are calculated according to the cost for Eclipse Castes to learn non-Solar Charms. (An optional rule, available solely at the Storyteller’s discretion, may permit any Creation-born who acquires a Grace to purchase Charms for which she meets the requirements.)

    A being must have Heart 2 or higher to perform shaping attacks appropriate to any Grace she has. Sentient Creationborn are considered to have the equivalent of Heart 2, and any Creation-born for whom a Grace has been forged can make appropriate shaping attacks. If capable of learning raksha Charms, she can also learn Charms of the Heart for which she meets the requirements. A Creation-born with Essence 5 or higher has the equivalent of Heart 3 for purposes of shaping combat and Charm prerequisites. Creation-born may never learn Charms that carry the Assumption or Unshaped-Only keywords (see p. 153)
    Quote Originally Posted by Graceful Wicked Masques, page 202
    GAPING VIRTUE MOUTH
    Cost: 20m, 1g, 1xp; Mins: Staff 1, Essence 1;
    Type: Simple
    Keywords: Shaping
    Duration: Instant
    Prerequisite Charms: Forging the Cup Grace, Forging the Ring Grace, Forging the Staff Grace, Forging the Sword Grace
    Having learned to forge new Graces for visitors to his realm, the raksha, in keeping with his duties as host, provides them with a repast fit for a king. With this Charm, the raksha can pry open the Cup, Ring, Staff or Sword Grace of a creature who has acquired such a Grace by some means.
    Thereafter, the targeted creature can treat said Grace as a feeding Grace, and the creature can learn the Charm Ravishing the Created Form, as well as any other Feeding Charms for which the creature meets all prerequisites.
    The maximum number of feeding Graces any character can acquire after character creation is equal to (her Heart Grace – 1). A minion for whom a Cup, Ring, Staff and Sword Grace have been formed and who has at least one opened feeding Grace is truly considered a raksha.
    The Scroll of Errata doesn't mention any change on that. So allowing all Creation-born with Graces to learn raksha charms would be an alternative rule.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XVI: Chej Kejak, Pokegod Trainer!

    hey, how come this thread doesn't have the exalted tag on it?
    Quote Originally Posted by HerrTenko View Post
    TimeWizard, you've got to do something about all that Clarity you've got. It starts by just ruining jokes, but soon you'll be dreaming of electric sheep and stuff. It can't be good for you.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XVI: Chej Kejak, Pokegod Trainer!

    Quote Originally Posted by TimeWizard View Post
    hey, how come this thread doesn't have the exalted tag on it?
    I have no idea what you're talking about. <_< >_>
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XVI: Chej Kejak, Pokegod Trainer!

    Clistenes, the relevant part I refer to is the "minion with at least one opened Grace counts as Raksha."
    Youth and strenght alvays lose to age and treachery.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XVI: Chej Kejak, Pokegod Trainer!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikandur Azebol View Post
    Clistenes, the relevant part I refer to is the "minion with at least one opened Grace counts as Raksha."
    I wonder if that means the character becomes a Creature of Darkness...

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XVI: Chej Kejak, Pokegod Trainer!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jade Dragon View Post
    I have no idea what you're talking about. <_< >_>
    All the threads on the forum have a tage like [Exalted] or [Shadowrun] by their name. At the time of my post, this thread did not. I guess it's automated, because there is one now, in stately, smiley pink.
    Last edited by TimeWizard; 2014-06-21 at 07:50 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by HerrTenko View Post
    TimeWizard, you've got to do something about all that Clarity you've got. It starts by just ruining jokes, but soon you'll be dreaming of electric sheep and stuff. It can't be good for you.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XVI: Chej Kejak, Pokegod Trainer!

    Quote Originally Posted by Clistenes View Post
    I wonder if that means the character becomes a Creature of Darkness...
    Shaped Fair Folk don't have CoD slapped on their foreheads. Unshaped, yes they are Creatures of Darkness.
    Youth and strenght alvays lose to age and treachery.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XVI: Chej Kejak, Pokegod Trainer!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikandur Azebol View Post
    Shaped Fair Folk don't have CoD slapped on their foreheads. Unshaped, yes they are Creatures of Darkness.
    I always forget that. U. Sun really is an awful procastinator...almost 800 centuries since the Balorian Crusade and he still hasn't been able to move his sorry ass away from the Games of Divinity to sign the form...

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XVI: Chej Kejak, Pokegod Trainer!

    Quote Originally Posted by Clistenes View Post
    I always forget that. U. Sun really is an awful procastinator...almost 800 centuries since the Balorian Crusade and he still hasn't been able to move his sorry ass away from the Games of Divinity to sign the form...
    He hasn't paid any real attention to creation since shortly before the usurpation. And since heaven closed up shop to avoid the great contagion, he may not have noticed the balorian crusade happened.

    Mind, this is not meant to exculpate his guilt. More of an explanation for why he is guilty. A condemnation, if you will.
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    My motto: Repensum Est Canicula.

    Quote Originally Posted by turkishproverb View Post
    I am not getting into a shootout with Golentan. Too many gun-arms.
    Leiningen will win, even if he must lose in the attempt.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XVI: Chej Kejak, Pokegod Trainer!

    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    He hasn't paid any real attention to creation since shortly before the usurpation. And since heaven closed up shop to avoid the great contagion, he may not have noticed the balorian crusade happened.

    Mind, this is not meant to exculpate his guilt. More of an explanation for why he is guilty. A condemnation, if you will.
    One of the books (the Yu-shan book? Glories of the Most High? one of the Inkmonkeys' articles?) described the Incarnae as discussing the Contagion and the Balorian Crusade in between moves, but they were "one last move, and we go fix everything...", but then there was another move, and another, and another, until it was too late.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XVI: Chej Kejak, Pokegod Trainer!

    Quote Originally Posted by Clistenes View Post
    I always forget that. U. Sun really is an awful procastinator...almost 800 centuries since the Balorian Crusade and he still hasn't been able to move his sorry ass away from the Games of Divinity to sign the form...
    Somewhere or another it says they aren't a serious enough threat to warrant it. Things like ghosts get it for wonky metaphysical, "their existence is bad for Creation in the extremely long term." reasons.
    Many, many thanks to azuyomi244 for the avatar.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XVI: Chej Kejak, Pokegod Trainer!

    OP, you need to change the list of useful links; the White Wolf forums aren't where the action's at anymore - now one goes to the Onyx Path Forums to discuss one's character's comedic series of dates with Ma-Ha-Suchi!
    It is inevitable, of course, that persons of epicurean refinement will in the course of eternity engage in dealings with those of... unsavory character. Record well any transactions made, and repay all favors promptly.. (Thanks to Gnomish Wanderer for the Toreador avatar! )

    Wanna see what all this Exalted stuff is about? Here's a primer!

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XVI: Chej Kejak, Pokegod Trainer!

    Exthalion, Creation was designed to resist Wyld and Shaped Fair Folk hurt-weaken Unshaped that sometimes gnaw at Creation when they Quest against them extensively. Underworld is kept here partially by ghosts. Underworld sucks essence from Creation like giant mosquito. Ghosts, by their existence, damage Lethe and condemn more and more Hun souls to Oblivion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clistenes View Post
    I always forget that. U. Sun really is an awful procastinator...almost 800 centuries since the Balorian Crusade and he still hasn't been able to move his sorry ass away from the Games of Divinity to sign the form...
    Balorian Crusade isn't anything new, to be honest. There were other Fair Folk invasions before Solars Eclipsed them to stay put. UCS stopped dealing with Fair Folk after Lashee incident. Described in Glories. He left it to Luna who is pro, unlike him.
    Youth and strenght alvays lose to age and treachery.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XVI: Chej Kejak, Pokegod Trainer!

    I have a question.

    I've been skimming this thread for a little bit, and I've noticed a couple people talking about "The Ink Monkey's saying they weren't going to fix problems for 3E"

    Were is that sentiment coming from? because it's nowhere on the What we know wiki.

    The closest I've seen was in the Lunars section where one of them said something about people asking them to just drop some problematic aspects instead of fixing them. That is, dropping good Idea's because the bad writers for 2E did it wrong.

    I've also noticed a couple of people mentioning that they were really disappointed with some of the changes.

    I'm just asking, because I'm really looking forward to Solars that aren't OP after essence 4, Lunars that have a defined theme and don't suck withuout DBM, Dragonblooded that don't suck, Abyssals and Infernals that aren't slaves without having to redeam into solar/take one specific high essence charm path, and new exalt types that compliment the Classics while being cool by themselves.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XVI: Chej Kejak, Pokegod Trainer!

    I think most of the anti-3e sentiment is coming from two camps.

    Those who actively disagree with some of their decisions. IE, 'I WANT DEVIL TIGER BACK.' I'm fairly sure this is a small camp.
    And those who have just been hyped out. We've been waiting what, a year? A year and a half? We can't stay excited that long. >>

    (Also, there's the problem that how do we know they can actually fix these things?)
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XVI: Chej Kejak, Pokegod Trainer!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    I think most of the anti-3e sentiment is coming from two camps.

    Those who actively disagree with some of their decisions. IE, 'I WANT DEVIL TIGER BACK.' I'm fairly sure this is a small camp.
    And those who have just been hyped out. We've been waiting what, a year? A year and a half? We can't stay excited that long. >>

    (Also, there's the problem that how do we know they can actually fix these things?)
    I kind of fall into both camps, honestly. Some of the design choices sound like improvements, but many sound like steps in the entirely wrong direction to me. And I'm tired of waiting to see if my hopes or fears will triumph, plus there are a lot of people who have been putting off exalted games that I could have been part of because "3rd edition will be out any moment now. Yep... aaaaaaaaany moment..."
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XVI: Chej Kejak, Pokegod Trainer!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    And those who have just been hyped out. We've been waiting what, a year? A year and a half? We can't stay excited that long. >>
    Personally, I've set my internal anticipation-o-meter to a year from now. Not a year from today, June 21st 2014; a year from whenever I happen to think about the release date. Not too distant, but definitely nothing to hold my breath over. I figure that when the thing finally does get published, I'll get to be pleasantly surprised that they released it sooner than I expected.

    (No insult meant to the writers/developers/publishers here; it's just, the release has been on the slow side lately. I remember getting all excited about the imminent release of Manual: Alchemicals, only to have it delayed for well over a year. I do appreciate the transition from "we're planning on having it out by August, 201X... okay, change that to December... okay, February 201X+1" to "it'll be done when it's done; still a ways to go, sorry.")

    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    And I'm tired of waiting to see if my hopes or fears will triumph, plus there are a lot of people who have been putting off exalted games that I could have been part of because "3rd edition will be out any moment now. Yep... aaaaaaaaany moment..."
    I admit, I roll my eyes a bit whenever I hear someone say "3e is right around the corner, you should probably wait for that before you start any new games." Even if the 3e core comes out soon - not necessarily the case, people were saying that a year ago - it'll be a while before the new edition offers the same variety of characters that the current one does. I like Sidereals, Dragon-Blooded, Abyssals, mixed groups, and so on; I'm not too enthused about going back to Solars only, even if the mechanical foundation is more solid.

    I'm trying not to form too many expectations about what the new edition will actually be like; the writers have said some things that sound good, and some things that make me a little nervous, and a lot of things that make me think "huh, that could work if it's executed well." Won't know til I actually read the finished product.

    (Short version: the new edition might be good, looking forward to finding out but not holding my breath; in the meantime I expect to continue playing 2.5 for quite a while.)
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XVI: Chej Kejak, Pokegod Trainer!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    I think most of the anti-3e sentiment is coming from two camps.

    Those who actively disagree with some of their decisions. IE, 'I WANT DEVIL TIGER BACK.' I'm fairly sure this is a small camp.
    And those who have just been hyped out. We've been waiting what, a year? A year and a half? We can't stay excited that long. >>

    (Also, there's the problem that how do we know they can actually fix these things?)
    I'm happy they have gotten rid of the Infernal's fluff. The Yozis and their servants should be some awe-inspiring, fearsome Eldritch Horrors beyond human comprehension, and the Infernal Exalted were like "We are sooooooo gross! And that make us cool!", like comic book villains created by a teenager who is trying to create some really evil characters without truly understanding how to do so.

    I would have ditched the whoremonging, cocaine-snorting comic villain thing and put more weight on the whole "mortals under the eye of beings greater than the Universe and more evil than anything living in it"...I would have made very clear that the mere contact with a Yozi changes you, that your mind shatter and you no longer can think in human terms, that the Infernal Exalted are like starfish aliens visiting Earth. That they can do horrible, unthinkable things not because they are debased or corrupted, but because Creation and its inhabitants no longer feel real to them.

    I also would like to keep the Reclamation as a credible threat. Not as an imminent threat, but as something that is going on and should be stopped or the Yozis will be free twenty, or fifty or a hundred years in the future.
    Last edited by Clistenes; 2014-06-21 at 09:27 PM.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XVI: Chej Kejak, Pokegod Trainer!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    I think most of the anti-3e sentiment is coming from two camps.

    Those who actively disagree with some of their decisions. IE, 'I WANT DEVIL TIGER BACK.' I'm fairly sure this is a small camp.
    And those who have just been hyped out. We've been waiting what, a year? A year and a half? We can't stay excited that long. >>

    (Also, there's the problem that how do we know they can actually fix these things?)
    Well, the fact that they're actually taking the time to do it is a good sign.

    I can kinda sympathis with the "gimme back mah custom titan" people, but well, the developers have said that the custom charm elements can be done Exigents, that an exigent that changes as it's essence rises is totally posible, and one coment on thw whitewolf forums that didn't make it to the wiki implied that a lot of the Devil Tiger stuff, other than redefining your caste and the custom charms was being folded into the Base Infernal Tree(Specific mention was based on having Spirit of the Living World be an occult Charm, and that a warlock totally devoted to imitating it's benifactor might create a custum charm to create gods for it's world, thus imitating a primordial soul hierachy.)

    And yeah, I get being hyped out. been waiting on the Archmage Class for AQ for like four years now...
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    I kind of fall into both camps, honestly. Some of the design choices sound like improvements, but many sound like steps in the entirely wrong direction to me. And I'm tired of waiting to see if my hopes or fears will triumph, plus there are a lot of people who have been putting off exalted games that I could have been part of because "3rd edition will be out any moment now. Yep... aaaaaaaaany moment..."
    Any Specific things you're hoping for/fearing? Any changes in particular that you thik were wrong moves? I'm trying to get ideas about how people are feeling about 3E

    Personally, the only thing that would ruin it for me is if it turns out Evocations suck(Or alternativly, Solars are the only ones who can internalise Evocations)

    I'm sort of looking forward to learning more about the new Exalt Types personally. Gettimani and Liminals both sound Creepy Awesome, there's that third we don't even know that name of that are supposed to be allied with the Lunars and complimantary to them the way that the redone Infernals, Gettimani, and Liminals Compliment Solars, Siderials, and Abyssals.

    And the Dirty Bomb exigents. Literally all we know about them is they're black market exegencies that have been deliberatly modified by multible spirits, and that plasing the Exaltation intoa mortal results in "aberation of great power" How the hay can somebody not be curious after hearing that?
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XVI: Chej Kejak, Pokegod Trainer!

    My problem is that I think they're going to Dark Souls 2 it.

    Now, if you're not familiar, Dark Souls was a shining instance of greatness. It has a great subtle story, beautiful scenery, and heartwrenching characters. Mechanically, it was total garbage. PvP is an unspeakable nightmare, and PvE was kind of drunk. But we put up with how bad everything was because its heart was in the right place.

    Dark Souls 2 was an appreciable improvement mechanically. Except where it fixed things that weren't broken. Even with several rather egregious flaws, it's a better game by far. But it's lifeless. The story isn't subtle so much as opaque. The scenery is beautiful, except where they didn't finish it. The characters are tragic, but it's hard to care about them. Dark Souls 2 is objectively better, but it's just missing something.

    The first game is a story with bits deliberately cut out. The second game is a story that was deliberately never finished.

    I expect the current Exalted team to deliver a vastly improved game. But it won't be the Exalted I fell in love with. And with their "my way or the highway" attitude, I don't think it's going to be something those of us who disagree can change. The only reason why I started posting on the official board with any degree of frequency is because all the fan writers I admired ragequit.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XVI: Chej Kejak, Pokegod Trainer!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Personally, the only thing that would ruin it for me is if it turns out Evocations suck(Or alternativly, Solars are the only ones who can internalise Evocations)
    Evocations are not Solar-only.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XVI: Chej Kejak, Pokegod Trainer!

    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    I kind of fall into both camps, honestly. Some of the design choices sound like improvements, but many sound like steps in the entirely wrong direction to me. And I'm tired of waiting to see if my hopes or fears will triumph, plus there are a lot of people who have been putting off exalted games that I could have been part of because "3rd edition will be out any moment now. Yep... aaaaaaaaany moment..."
    I think you are reading my mind.
    That statement has bothered me too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clistenes View Post
    I'm happy they have gotten rid of the Infernal's fluff. The Yozis and their servants should be some awe-inspiring, fearsome Eldritch Horrors beyond human comprehension, and the Infernal Exalted were like "We are sooooooo gross! And that make us cool!", like comic book villains created by a teenager who is trying to create some really evil characters without truly understanding how to do so.

    I would have ditched the whoremonging, cocaine-snorting comic villain thing and put more weight on the whole "mortals under the eye of beings greater than the Universe and more evil than anything living in it"...I would have made very clear that the mere contact with a Yozi changes you, that your mind shatter and you no longer can think in human terms, that the Infernal Exalted are like starfish aliens visiting Earth. That they can do horrible, unthinkable things not because they are debased or corrupted, but because Creation and its inhabitants no longer feel real to them.

    I also would like to keep the Reclamation as a credible threat. Not as an inmediate threat, but as something that is going on and should be stopped or the Yozis will be free twenty, or fifty or a hundred years in the future.
    Well I got good news and bad news. The first section of that is being changed. Infernal charms won't be yozi charms, so yozis go back to being beyond the game. Personally I liked the yozi charms, but meh.

    We know nothing about what's going to happen to the middle part, afaik, but I'd point out that it's not that likely, purely because human have to be able to PLAY infernals. It can be about them struggling to remain human, sure.
    Of course, if you take the right charms in 2e, you look pretty inhuman anyway, but people tend to ignore that.

    As for the third part? Yeah, that's the bad news. I am fairly certain the reclamation is dead. They have said it was never meant to be possible in 2e, and it being presented as a sensible plan was a mistake. So, in 3e... the reclamation will not be televised.

    Or exist.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion XVI: Chej Kejak, Pokegod Trainer!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    I'm just asking, because I'm really looking forward to Solars that aren't OP after essence 4, Lunars that have a defined theme and don't suck withuout DBM, Dragonblooded that don't suck, Abyssals and Infernals that aren't slaves without having to redeam into solar/take one specific high essence charm path, and new exalt types that compliment the Classics while being cool by themselves.
    There's no such thing.

    There's an intention for things to be that way. The actual mechanics may or may not pan out.


    By the way, noone intended for 2E to be that bad. But it was. Intentions without executions aren't worth much. I'm fairly confident 2E setting issues will be successfully resolved in 3E. Its two fundamental mechanics issues, not so much. One of them is the sloppy writing, and it is to stay. The other one is that it was boring as combat offered neither meaningful tactical decisions, nor luck playing as significant a role as in most other RPGs due to the pronounced bell curve of large dice pools. 3E is keeping fairly large dice pools, so luck again won't be a major factor. Meaningful tactical decisions? Maybe, it's too early to tell.

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