General Exalted Discussion XVI: Chej Kejak, Pokegod Trainer!

[Lord Raziere]

If I want to learn about Alchemicals, what is the best source for the fluff, the relevant Compass of Very Long Name or the MoEP?

The MoEP, but Compass: Autochthonia is really good for getting a better look at the Eight Nations and Autochthonia in general. after all the Alchemicals are all about serving the greater community, so if you like Alchemicals you should probably get Compass: Autochthonia after it.

[Lix Lorn]

If I want to learn about Alchemicals, what is the best source for the fluff, the relevant Compass of Very Long Name or the MoEP?

Well, -

The MoEP, but Compass: Autochthonia is really good for getting a better look at the Eight Nations and Autochthonia in general. after all the Alchemicals are all about serving the greater community, so if you like Alchemicals you should probably get Compass: Autochthonia after it.

...yeah.

Thank you. Do you also approve of charms that let me craft Primordial Charms based on the powers and themes of the Spirits my chacter has eaten and imprisoned?

Absolutely. ._.

Now,here's thing I've been wondering about:

The Capstone Charm for infrernal monster Style transforms one of the Character's hands into a demonic once, aloowing the character to treet all unarmed strikes as being made with an artifact weapon.

If this or a similar charm were to make it to 3E, how would that interact with Invocations? I could see the Infernal expansion on it as an invocation

Well, wouldn't the invocation themes just be the martial art again?

[Rater202]

Well, wouldn't the invocation themes just be the martial art again?

Are the evocations for Soulsteal Daiklaives Abyssal weapon charms?

Evocations are not intrinsic powers of the Artifact, but rather charm like techniques created by the soul of the artifact resonating with the soul of the essence wileder it is atunned to.

So two wielders of an artifact might develop the same evocations, but it's unlikely that they'll be exactly the same.

As an example. Pretend that I'm a, say, a Twilight Caste who favored Weapon as a skill. I use my craft charms to build myself an Orichalcum Daiklaive and train with it everyday. Over the course of a decade I build a respectable stock of say, 30 evocations with it.

One day, I'm injured in a way that leads me to no longer be such a good swordsman, so I pass my daiklave down to a Dawn Caste swordsman, still in his prime, and instruct him in it's use. As I'm instructing him, he'll probably develop any number of my evocations. But, a few of them might has slight differences, even if they're only cosmetic.

However, one day he's practicing with it and develops a technique I've never even imagined, and starts to develop more of his own in addition to learning the ones I created.

But, here's the thing, it's not as simple as that. If Infernal Monster Style finds it's way to 3E, be it a martial art or Infernal brawl tree, and the capstine charm says the same, it wouldn't be the Same Artifact fist, it would just be one of several artifact fists.

Back to the Previous comparison, If I forged two identical Red Jade Grimcleavers and passed them down to other wielders, then the wielders of those two Identical weapons would probably develop rather different evocations

[TimeWizard]

Now,here's thing I've been wondering about:

The Capstone Charm for infrernal monster Style transforms one of the Character's hands into a demonic once, aloowing the character to treet all unarmed strikes as being made with an artifact weapon.

If this or a similar charm were to make it to 3E, how would that interact with Invocations? I could see the Infernal expansion on it as an invocation

That hand of yours would glow with an awesome power.

[Rater202]

That hand of yours would glow with an awesome power.

Well obviously, I mean what else?

[Lix Lorn]

Back to the Previous comparison, If I forged two identical Red Jade Grimcleavers and passed them down to other wielders, then the wielders of those two Identical weapons would probably develop rather different evocations

But there's the thing.
This weapon has been forged.

It is The One Hand of the Infernal Monster. It already has a legend. The more IM charms you take, the less it matters who you are, and the more you match the pattern of the Infernal Monster.

That said! They could use the One Hand as a gateway to a bunch of expansion charms without it causing as much friction as before.

[Rater202]

But there's the thing.
This weapon has been forged.

It is The One Hand of the Infernal Monster. It already has a legend. The more IM charms you take, the less it matters who you are, and the more you match the pattern of the Infernal Monster.

That said! They could use the One Hand as a gateway to a bunch of expansion charms without it causing as much friction as before.

Assuming that Infernal Moster style stays a distinct martial art.

Marital Arts is being divorced from the Skill system, and hero styles are being replaced with Brawl skill Charms.

If Infernal Monster style reappears, it's most lily to show up as a tree of infernal brawl charms rather than as a concrete style, and the way that infernal charms changes you is very much dependent on the Individual in 3E, if some of the spoilers we've gotten are anything to go on.

Even if it reappears as a full style with attendant fluff, your evocations from the Charm would still be heavily influenced by who you are in relation to the legend of the infernal monster.

[Lix Lorn]

Eh, I disagree. Who YOU are is irrelevant to the monster.

[Rater202]

Eh, I disagree. Who YOU are is irrelevant to the monster.

For the Charms maybe, but for evocations derived from the Artifact Weapon forged by the purchase of the capstone charm, who you are is very important, becuase who you are is important for every set of evocations.

Thinking on the 2E paradigm, then yess, if you take this martial art, you become more like the Infernal Monster of legend. but Evocations don't Exist in the 2E Paradigm.

The 3E Paradigm removes the idea that Infernal Charms influence you Character's behaivior. The themes the Charms draw on is modified and focused by the lenses of your soul and your skill.

So, if Infernal Monster Style reappears as Infernal Brawl Charms, then it would be less "You are changing to Become the Monster of Legend" and more "You've decided to emulate the Infernal Monster while interpriting the Legend in your own way, granting subtle diferances that suit the nature of your own skill at handing out asswhoopin's"

If it stays as a solid Martial Art based on a legend, then it could all come down to varients on the style and diferant interpirtations of the Legend

Which Means that if the Capstone is kept the same, then the way the legend applies to you would certainly effect the nature of the evocations

That could even be a story hook. Each person whose mastered the Style claims to be the Raincarnation/Chosen Successor/what have you of the real/orignial/primordial infernal monster, at that all others are imitators and posers. "Why look at them, they don't even have the right Evocations? What, mthey're saying that I'm the fake? how dare they? Rage!"

Of course, if the charms reapear as a brawl tree, then it's entirly possible that they wouldn't even have the Infernal Monster FLuff, which would render all of this a moot point

[Lix Lorn]

See at this point my mind is just telling me 'they changed it now it sucks'. xD

[TimeWizard]

Is the Infernal Monster of legend actually specific person, or is it an abstract idea? And if so, is it that guy Gorran or something who was the first Akuma?

[golentan]

Is the Infernal Monster of legend actually specific person, or is it an abstract idea? And if so, is it that guy Gorran or something who was the first Akuma?

Abstract idea. Kind of all of the rage of the yozis at their imprisonment, personified and unbound.

[Draken]

In its original inception, around Gorol (the first Akuma), the Infernal Monster was the antithesis of the Solar Hero.

[Qwertystop]

I have seen one character that went DT based on the idea of Infernal Monster Style being half of an incomplete Primordial, since Primordials basically have two trees of charms (what they are physically and what their outlook is), and Infernal Monster is just one. It was on one of these threads, I don't remember more.

[Lix Lorn]

I have seen one character that went DT based on the idea of Infernal Monster Style being half of an incomplete Primordial, since Primordials basically have two trees of charms (what they are physically and what their outlook is), and Infernal Monster is just one. It was on one of these threads, I don't remember more.

...that might well be me. :P

I have a DT called Marcia, the Chained Monster. One of her main chains is just IM expansion charms, while the others are about self-control.

[SaurOps]

I have seen one character that went DT based on the idea of Infernal Monster Style being half of an incomplete Primordial, since Primordials basically have two trees of charms (what they are physically and what their outlook is), and Infernal Monster is just one. It was on one of these threads, I don't remember more.

I will never stop thinking that the abbreviation of DT for Devil Tiger is hilarious, as a side note.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I will never stop thinking that the abbreviation of DT for Devil Tiger is hilarious, as a side note.

That link leads to something other than StarCraft II!?

[TimeWizard]

I've read that the ultimate stage of a Raksha is called Ishvara, and that they make their story real for everyone and are powerful enough to challenge the gods. Are there any canon examples given of this and if so, who are they?

[Exthalion]

I've read that the ultimate stage of a Raksha is called Ishvara, and that they make their story real for everyone and are powerful enough to challenge the gods. Are there any canon examples given of this and if so, who are they?

Prince Balor of the Terrible Gaze and Prince Lashee the Morning Star.

[Recaiden]

Also The Fomorian Dream and The Thing in the Mountain.

[Exthalion]

Also The Fomorian Dream and The Thing in the Mountain.

Where are those discussed?

Also, since I forgot to put it in: Prince Lashee is detailed in Inkmonkies, and Prince Balor was the one who instigated the Baloring Crusade.

[Recaiden]

They don't get as much information as the other two.

The Fomorian Dream is in the Raksha section of Scroll of Errata, and The Thing in the Mountain is in Compass: Autochthonia.

[TheCountAlucard]

Prince Laashe.

That is all.

[Lord Raziere]

Hey guys, I'm kind of stuck on a characters backstory

Moonsilver Caste of Kamak, stealthy infiltrator, her past lives have a tendency to do thing for the greater good of Autochthonia at the expense of her own selfish desires and it carries into her current life. and basically my concept for her is that she fell in love with a kindhearted leader of a conspiracy against Kamak that she infiltrated, but killed her anyways for the greater good of Kamak to prevent a bloody civil war/revolution that would only weaken the nation.

but then after that she goes into Clarity a little at doing so, to keep herself from feeling the pain of her loss. however she is supposed to somehow recover and gain new friends and such, but the in the process of doing so, finding herself conflicted between Autochthonia's greater good and her own selfish desires again. and what I'm stuck on is how to write the second part of it out, like what exactly happens....

[Andreaz]

The first half is your average alchie.
For the second part, clarity does shift with human contact and it's lack. Maybe she just stops seeing people, eidolon included?

[Lord Raziere]

The first half is your average alchie.
For the second part, clarity does shift with human contact and it's lack. Maybe she just stops seeing people, eidolon included?

......I didn't come up with that off the top of my head, I had to think and put actual effort into coming up with that, thanks, now I have to start over again.

wait, you said "alchie" not "cliche" sorry. easy to mix up. but it still doesn't change the fact that I'll have to get more inventive, cause if all I can come up with is an average Alchemical backstory, I need to step up my game, I don't want average, I want something NOTABLE, something interesting. Average ain't gonna cut it.

[HalfTangible]

......I didn't come up with that off the top of my head, I had to think and put actual effort into coming up with that, thanks, now I have to start over again.

wait, you said "alchie" not "cliche" sorry. easy to mix up. but it still doesn't change the fact that I'll have to get more inventive, cause if all I can come up with is an average Alchemical backstory, I need to step up my game, I don't want average, I want something NOTABLE, something interesting. Average ain't gonna cut it.

A quick way to make something interesting is to defy conventional story elements. Make it look like it's going one way, then have it veer off to go another way.

... 'Make it interesting' is a goal really hard to give advice for.

[Rikandur_Azebol]

Lord Raziere, to deny her selfish desires to be with people she could ... talk in third person about herself. Pretend to be just cold and unfeeling robot. Be more radical than Soulsteel castes chasing Void Cultists. What methods she uses to be ... properly selfless ?

[Lord Raziere]

well apparently the average Alchemical story is making sacrifices of personal desire for a higher cause. so what wouldn't be average would be an Alchemical being selfish for once. problem is, its hard to really see that happening, due to 5000 years of a culture emphasizing community and worship of a machine god, as well homogeneity and orthodoxy. all Alchemicals on some level are selfless in some way, because of such strong expectations of them being so combined with the kind of souls that are selected to become Alchemicals- I doubt they select anyone selfish- so what to do?

lets try a different theme then, secrets lies and truth, which Moonsilver Castes are all about. how about instead of her killing the person herself, she destroyed the conspiracy but kept her alive, and lied that she killed the leader herself to the populace, trying to have her cake and eat it to, but another Alchemical found out that the leader was alive and revealed it, exposing her as a liar and damaging her reputation in the eyes of the Populat. and that somehow the leader escaped to one day again make another conspiracy and now the Moonsilver Caste works to make up for her mistake and her lie?

and sorry: the name of the Alchemical is Gilded Dagger of Cleverness.

[Rikandur_Azebol]

Add paranoia and un-admitted total unhappiness, Lord R. You know, go with the selflessness to the extreme. Almost bad enough to be considered Goblin Syndromed.