General Exalted Discussion XVI: Chej Kejak, Pokegod Trainer!

[Hiro Protagonest]

From Holden: “Final Charm balance tune-ups continued this week, while Evocations are hitting their final tree. The Introduction is currently being written (yes, we left the first part of the book as the last part to be written). This coming week should focus on finishing Evocations, art notes, and getting various 98%-done parts of the book done with final clean-up passes.”

That sounds like it's almost done.

Unless literally all the charms and Evocations are horribly unbalanced, I couldn't see editing after the final playtest taking too long.

Fine, a quick correction.

Infernals!

[Lord Raziere]

Another Robert Vance guest post to tide you over:

Ink Monkey Bones #8: Modern Infernal Charms

Cooooool. I particularly like Unforgivable Wickedness Pardons. I could use that.....and it explains a lot about how the Ebon Dragon is in the position he is now...

[Phelix-Mu]

Any Ex2e stats for the jade obelisks or reality engines that stabilized new Creation and hedged out the Wyld? Official sources or homebrew both welcome.

[Lord Raziere]

Any Ex2e stats for the jade obelisks or reality engines that stabilized new Creation and hedged out the Wyld? Official sources or homebrew both welcome.

hold on, digging this up, I haven't checked for this in a while....

*checks Wyld Compass* nope, only rules for repairing reality engines, which requires Solars mind.

*checks Wonders of the Lost Age* nope.....seems like Jade Obelisks and Reality Engines are N/A rated....

*checks...gulp.....Dreams of the First Age* I guess you could appropriate the rules of Hand of the Great Maker for Reality Engines in general.....nah.

really, the Jade Obelisks just seem to be a really big Chaos-Repelling Pattern charms, while Reality Engines just seem to be really big Wyld Shaping Techniques, so just take those two charms and slap them onto big structures I guess.

[The_Snark]

Any Ex2e stats for the jade obelisks or reality engines that stabilized new Creation and hedged out the Wyld? Official sources or homebrew both welcome.

I think Return of the Scarlet Empress has some information on reality engines in the chapter on the North, specifically the bit about Gethamane. I think the engines themselves are basically plot devices, though; the stats apply mostly to security precautions and the like.

[Exthalion]

The rules for Jade Obelisks are in Compass Wyld on p. 27. They are buried a bit in the text. It is implied they used to work better, actively harming Fey, but there aren't enough of them left in the necessary arrangements to do that any longer.

[Clistenes]

I usually go with them being a combination of a level 3 artifact and a level 1 manse/demesne.

[Phelix-Mu]

One of my players has several Wyld-shaped areas in the Southern Wyld, from bolt-holes to mines and armouries scattered around. Over some down time, the Lapis Court started being more active in the South, and as this character was the first (and infamous) user of WST in the Second Age, he gained some notoriety among the Fair Folk, who call him "Dream Slayer" and "that pretentious git...I mean Solar." Not all of them are out to get him; my campaign specializes in many npcs that aren't necessarily trying to eat what the characters care about. But most of them don't much care for Solar shaping a la the First Age, even if they do like Exalts insofar as Exalts are part of awesome stories (and Raksha want to be part of awesome stories).

In any case, I wanted to know how and if he could arrange a more permanent protection for his areas, since, from what I can tell, there is little that stops any Raksha from just walking up and messing up all his hard work.

[Draken]

One of my players has several Wyld-shaped areas in the Southern Wyld, from bolt-holes to mines and armouries scattered around. Over some down time, the Lapis Court started being more active in the South, and as this character was the first (and infamous) user of WST in the Second Age, he gained some notoriety among the Fair Folk, who call him "Dream Slayer" and "that pretentious git...I mean Solar." Not all of them are out to get him; my campaign specializes in many npcs that aren't necessarily trying to eat what the characters care about. But most of them don't much care for Solar shaping a la the First Age, even if they do like Exalts insofar as Exalts are part of awesome stories (and Raksha want to be part of awesome stories).

In any case, I wanted to know how and if he could arrange a more permanent protection for his areas, since, from what I can tell, there is little that stops any Raksha from just walking up and messing up all his hard work.

Well, he can always start with a nice wall of iron, with spikes. that should keep out the lesser troops of the fair folk. Some tiger warriors deal with stragglers, and it is a decent charm investment for anyone looking to build infrastructure.

Nobles you can't really deal with passively.

[Phelix-Mu]

Can ranged shaping attacks not harm a wall of cold iron?

[golentan]

Can ranged shaping attacks not harm a wall of cold iron?

Pretty much.

In any case, Creation-born who live close to Fair Folk territories
don’t really care why iron protects them. Any weapon
made of pure iron (as opposed to steel) inflicts aggravated
damage on a raksha and also ignores any natural soak she gains
from Stamina and Charms. In Creation, the vast majority of
weapons are made of steel or bronze, not iron. The process of
turning iron into steel is alchemical in nature and apparently
negates whatever property of iron exists that makes it a bane
to the Fair Folk. The touch of an item of cold iron, even one
as small as a horseshoe or a nail, instantly dispels works of
glamour, subject to the following exceptions.
Assumption Charms: The touch of cold iron does not
disrupt an Assumption Charm (see p. 156). Such Charms, by
their very nature, exist to inure the raksha to Creation’s baleful
touch and are not considered to be works of glamour.
Mutations: Cold iron will not disrupt any mutation
incorporated into a raksha’s form as a result of a Mutation
Charm. Such Charms actively transform the basic nature of
the one who has been mutated, and there is no default form
to which a mutated character can return.
Permanent Works of Glamour: Some works of glamour
are identified as permanent. A permanent work of glamour,
once fashioned in Creation, is considered real for all purposes
and does not dissolve against cold iron.
Finally, unless the Storyteller declares otherwise, if a
work of glamour affects multiple sentient beings, cold iron
must touch each of them in order to disrupt the effect.
Absent Storyteller approval, a character might be able to
awaken an enchanted sleeping princess with the touch of
an iron nail, but not the entire kingdom that has been put
to sleep along with her.

Gods I hate Raksha. It's really satisfying that they can be taken down by a well prepared mortal.

[Recaiden]

Can ranged shaping attacks not harm a wall of cold iron?

Ranged Shaping Attacks can totally harm a wall of iron....if that wall stands in the Wyld. If it stands fully in Creation, they have to go break it down manually.
Since this is a WST area, you might have to deal with them on the Raksha's terms.

An iron wall won't do much to stop them: Flight is a no-prereqs E2 charm for Raksha. A wall will help make it defensible, like if it's manned by archers and has weapons emplacements. Adding various Wards against Raksha (thaumaturgy from Oadenal's Codex) can help.

Also, it's fairly hard for them to mess up your work. A Tainted Land imposes a -5 on shaping rolls, and they should have to beat the roll/successes that shaped that part of the land.

@V: Things made with WST but without Wyld Cauldron Technology stop existing on their own, no Raksha necessary, if they go long enough without interacting with Creation.

[Exthalion]

Can't they only do something to it if it has gone a long time without interacting with the things of Creation?

[Phelix-Mu]

It seems to me that any Raksha even half-competent at shaping combat could pretty easily bring down a WST region. Part of the problem is that, sans some work by Sidereals and Jade Obelisks/reality engines, WST areas aren't strictly Creation, they are parts of the Wyld that have been formatted to work according to the rules of Creation. There are no gods for the area, no elementals, and no integrity inherent to what is created (it all lies outside Destiny). While mortals add stability and expand Creation, mortals created by WST are not real in the Creation-born sense, any more than mortals made by Raksha are real (no soul, no destiny, no reincarnation). So, absent importing people and getting the area integrated into the network of connections that defines Creation (Chosen of Messengers territory), I think the WST area is pretty vulnerable to counter-shaping.

Plus, I was using a WST fix someone here suggested that seems to make it easier and less prone to open-ended interpretations (seriously, the original charm was super vague). Maybe. I'm not all too clear on how the difficulties compare.

Furthermore, this particular character is using the Wyld as a defense mechanism to keep his areas secret, so they aren't actually connected to the rest of Creation, but are part of the Middlemarches or the Deep Wyld (usually).

I believe the iron wall might not be useless, and the thaumaturgy is clearly really useful for protecting the land to a degree, but I don't see that the simple presence of some iron means that a Creation-like area surrounded by the Wyld is immune to shaping (which isn't usually glamour, if ever, if I understand correctly).

[Rikandur_Azebol]

He can always entertain local Fair Folk with negotiations and conspiracies against fellow Fair Folk. As long as it is great drama, greater than erasing his stuff, Fair Folk will be RP'ing happiness eagerly and he'll be happy.

Also, do not under-estimate Thaumaturgy. It have rituals that decrease Wyld "density" by one step. He can create horde of Thaumaturgical savvy pseudo-mortals who'll bedneck themselves with anti-Fair Folk Thaumaturgical wonders and establish more wards all across the territory. This all could hamper Fair Folk Shaping somewhat, and paired with him doing regular maintenance when mischief happens and vigiliant guards ... it should be relatively safe.

Unless PC fair folk comes over, that is.

[meschlum]

My post was devoured by the Wyld of the forum. So here's another attempt.

It really depends on circumstances and interpretation. Plus, of course, who you know.

Altering a Middlemarch or Deep Wyld environment is dead easy, and such a place isn't stable to begin with. To some extent, a visiting Raksha can't really do much more to the place than what you've already inflicted upon it. Of course, you probably want to have a pocket of stability inside, or use it to hide your things - both of which applications shine like beacons to any Raksha who happens to step in. To Raksha senses in a Wyld envirnoment, everything interesting within 20 waypoints (600 miles) is more or less instantly obvious. The rules are silly like that.

So your primary problem is to prevent the intrinsic effects of the Wyld environment from tearing your lair into little pieces. Raksha manifesting to do it are just a side effect, for the most part.

We'll assume you have a workaround for that issue. Typically, the approach is "Bring in lots of Creation-stuff, replace the bits that fall off". Solar techniques let you sense the more esoteric bits falling off (very helpful), and create stable material on site rather than needing to import it (also useful).

A Raksha coming into your waypoint (something interesting is going on. Thus, it's a waypoint) has a pile of options. Most of them are simply madness inducing, rather than actively destructive.

- Shaping: A Raksha can mess with the rules and environment every scene. You do have Creation-born about to witness what is going on, so as to limit the rate of change, right? These changes are largely superficial, and can be resisted with Willpower. You do have lots of willpower and ways to regenerate it each scene, right? On the plus side (for you), nothing they do will permanently alter the nature of the Waypoint. So your castle away from home will remain a castle, and inhabitable, despite the occasional quasi-magma floods.

Anti-Shaping measures are to have an allied Raksha (or Lunar, or Sidereal, or Eclipsoid) around to scare off the vermin and counter the changes. You can also rely on any living thing inside having lots of willpower, or just using the place as a place - intemittent raining sheep aside, your mansion Waypoint will still be a mansion. Per Errata, Raksha must stick to the spirit of their oaths, rather than the letter. This makes them superior guardians and servants (better than demons, even), as Errata is silly like that.

- Shaping Combat: This is bad news, because the rules are such that no sane ST will want to touch them (even I'm reluctant). Picture the effects of Shaping, except with consequences if you fail to break the scenario. So it's a willpower sink with the added effect that someone in the waypoint is going to end up geased, robbed, or insane. Fortunately, the ability is limited to Heroic Commoners and Nobles, which are less common.

Anti-Shaping Combat measures are pretty much as above, providing extra cause for not having anything sentient inside your pocket of Wyld stuff.

- Ring Charms: This is where the training wheels fall off. Thanks to Errata, Glamour Resistance does not exist, so Principle of Worlds can turn cold iron and magical materials you own and hold into soft mud with no means of preventing it (barring charms that explicitly protect your equipment). Errata is silly like that. It's an environmental change that cannot harm people directly, so you'll get your shapeless gobs of orihalcum when you leave the area, but it's still rather distressing.

Anti-Ring Charm measures are (again) to have a guardian dealing wih the issue. You could also get a Sword Grace and try to steal the environment back, though as you can't pop it into Elsewhere it would be of limited use. Steal a Raksha's Heart instead, then give it the environment and have it put into storage. Otherwise, the changes are only moderately drastic, so it's a matter of rule abuse. If the ST does not allow transmutation of important stuff, this is just more durable Shaping that you can't Willpower away - but it also can't make excessive changes to the environment. So you live with it and make sure that all the rooms in your mansion have well defined purposes so they can't be turned into tribble breeding grounds.

- Minion Spawning: Raksha use the Wyld to create new life, either creatures or other Raksha. They'll be happy to populate your Wyld pocket for you, with the most interesting critters they can find. New Raksha are hard to make, so you'll probably not have too many of those. Every scene, a Diplomat can give you a brand new Tyrant Lizard which needs actual killing to stop, and a Warrior can conjure up a small army which is somewhat less real. Mix in the hordes created via Shaping (and the more durable versions that Workers slowly bring in), and a Wyld zone can quickly become an epic killing ground. Without having the Raksha expose themselves to any risk at all.

Anti-Minion Spawning measures are the usual, though a Raksha is superior as it can ignore the created hordes and go directly to the source. Otherwise, hope the invading Fair Folk have a sense of fair play and manifest their armies outside your defenses. Or go overboard on traps and narrow passages, though that has its own risks. Mostly, remove the intruders before they can build up enough power to be dangerous.

- Staff Charms: Waypoints can be joined together in order to create a Freehold, an environment that the Raksha find most congenial and can control to a large extent. Their first step will probably be evicting you, locking you away in an isolated reality pocket, or something equally annoying. Plus, this interferes with dragon lines and prevents Manse creation.

Anti-Staff Charm measures are the same as ever, or having enough troops on the ground to prevent the Raksha from having the time to make the alterations. This risk also requires a large number of adjacent Waypoints, so it's not an issue if you control a small piece of the Wyld surrounded by Creation on all sides.

- Final Nuke: a Commoner with the proper Tier 1 Charm can become an Unshaped, shredding anything you have in a Deep Wyld environment.

Anti-Final Nuke measures are essentially nonexistent. This is why you don't hang out in the Deep Wyld without mitigation measures to restrict its intensity (there are ways he Raksha can get around that, but they are expensive and rare).


To summarize your options:

1) Raksha Guardian: this is an excellent measure, and will help against most forms of intrusion. Your guadian needs to be able to deal with any intruders, so you want it to be strong, which means spending time with it and keeping it well fed. A pair or trio of guards, so some are with you and gaining xp while the others keep watch, is probably a good idea.

2) Munane Troops: if you have enough men on the ground watching things, they'll end up only slightly mutated and will be able to counter most simple Raksha invasion attempts. Sadly, they are weak against Minion Spawning and vulnerable to social attacks. Still, a credible (and tasty) defense against low tier Raksha.

3) Empty Home: if you don't care what happens in your Wyld pocket so long as it remains accessible (and has the same broad geography), you can let low tier Raksha wander in it as much as they want. You'll be sharnig the space, but they can't really mess with you much. This breaks down if you want to keep anything important in the area, or have the Fair Folk out to get you.

4) Manse Building: waypoints are sort of like Demesnes, so one presumes that Manses could be built there. This would, in theory, restrict the amount of Wyld energy available and make Shaping attempts that much harder for any invaders. It's not directly supported in the rules, but is probably a fairly solid defense against most attacks. You still need guardians to prevent sabotage, but this setup should be fairly resistant to direct Raksha efforts. Or not. The rules are vague. It's certainly time and resource intensive and may end up less Wyld than you want.

5) Chancels: what can't Grace Magic solve? This gives you a portable Middlemarch, which you can wrap up and carry with you when you need to relocate. It's intruder-proof when you're not at home, entirely subject to your control, and gives you special teleportation options (which are enhanced if you have a Raksha minion).

[Phelix-Mu]

Thanks everyone for the helpful responses. Hopefully this problem will encourage this (and other) player characters to form good relations with less problematic Raksha, and otherwise think of the Wyld less as an endless loophole or bottomless pit of death, and more like a valuable investment that should be handled carefully.

[Jon D]

Juggernaut is also still alive.

And is truly immortal, I seem to remember.

And wants to shuffle off, but can't.

[Rockphed]

And is truly immortal, I seem to remember.

And wants to shuffle off, but can't.

Wait, we aren't speaking of the guy from x-men? Who or what is juggernaut?

[golentan]

Wait, we aren't speaking of the guy from x-men? Who or what is juggernaut?

The horrific behemoth the size of a city hollowed into a meat puppet and used by the mask of winters to conquer thorns.

He was mortally wounded in ages past, but because of his immortality he finds himself unable to die as a result. Though Juggernaut DOES have some undefined point in the future where he is destined to die, and until then he just bleeds a lot and wishes that moment was now.

[Phelix-Mu]

Hi everyone, here is a bit of background for my game, and a consideration I want you to...well, consider.

The range of magical beings runs from Raksha toward the Neverborn.

Raksha: Bits of chaos given ever-changing form, they represent every rule and no rule, always forever, randomly fluctuating in accord with some narrative or other.

\|/

Exalts: Strung in between the infinite possibility of the Wyld and the order of Creation, Exalts are part of the system that has the ability to alter it by altering the nature of the narrative itself with their infinite potential and their world-shaking powers. Lunars are closest to the Wyld, while Sidereals and Terrestrials operate in concert with the construct known as Creation.

\|/

Creation: Creation is Gaia, a Primordial that, out of the huge range of possibilities of the Wyld, bound herself into a fixed concept and set of rules, much in the manner of her fellow Primordials. They are still infinite within each concept they embody, capable of multiform variety within their theme, but they bound themselves in their creation of Creation to things like Time, Form, and (to a much lesser extent) Destiny.

\|/

Yozis: These exist roughly alongside Creation/Gaia, but because their self-concepts have been twisted by their vows post Primordial War, they are inwardly twisted and their infinity is currently bound up in their imprisonment, tangled in their psychic trauma. The result is that everything they produce is pretty much bound to be at odds with everything that ever was or ever was perceived to be connected to their hated captors, the Exalts. The sole exception are the Green Sun Princes, who, as Exalts, have a glimmer of the unbound nature of the narrative in them, in which anything might somehow come to pass. The Urge binds them to their Yozi masters, but perhaps the Yozis realize that the GSPs are their lifeline to some future in which they transcend their current unchanging reality. It remains to be seen.

\|/

The Neverborn: Neither all rule like Raksha or one set of rules like Creation, the Neverborn are consumed by one Rule: Oblivion. To erase and negate, to take the infinite possibilities of everything and render them a null sum, this is their dream. One rule forever, erasing even time. But, the Neverborn face a terrible reality; can their infinite, dying selves ever be fully consumed, bringing them the annihilation they have sought since their "death" at the hands of the Exalts? They don't care if it's possible, for they are even more bound by their obsession than the Yozis, as their concepts are "dreaming" in their half-death, unable to actually realize any form apart from the Oblivion of which they dream. The Deathlords and Deathknights are their instruments, but their interaction with Creation taints their embodiment of the dream of the Neverborn, so perhaps all is not yet lost.

\|/

Oblivion: The one, the last rule which erases all else. No variation, no deviation. Blah, blah, Oblivion.


Anyway, so that is my conceptual spectrum. My question for you all is

What if a Deathknight and a Raksha had a baby? This has recently happened, essentially due to Solar instigation. I need to know about what the children could be like. More thematically and fluff-wise, obviously, than mechanically.

Thanks again.

[Recaiden]

Remember that 'Above' the Raksha are the Shinma and then the Wyld itself, which could be considered an opposite of Oblivion.

Lunars are closest to the Wyld, while Sidereals and Terrestrials operate in concert with the construct known as Creation.

If you make that claim about Lunars, you could say that each Exalt is attuned to one realm of existence over the others, Giving the Sidereals Yu-Shan, but where would that leave the Solars? I think I would put Exalted parallel with Creation. They also run on rules, just with the ability to change the rules from the inside.

Creation: Creation is Gaia, a Primordial that, out of the huge range of possibilities of the Wyld, bound herself into a fixed concept and set of rules, much in the manner of her fellow Primordials. They are still infinite within each concept they embody, capable of multiform variety within their theme, but they bound themselves in their creation of Creation to things like Time, Form, and (to a much lesser extent) Destiny.

This is not exactly canon, though if it's how your Creation works, okay. Gaia is not Creation. Creation is a thing that she and Cytherea made, and then went on. Gaia in particular is given to not care much about Creation or Heaven, compared to the others. The Primordials have always been subject to Time and Form. That's why the war with the Raksha. In theory, a free, healthy Primordial could still overcome the exalted host and unmake history. In practice, they lost the Aftershock War.

Yozis: These exist roughly alongside Creation/Gaia, but because their self-concepts have been twisted by their vows post Primordial War, they are inwardly twisted and their infinity is currently bound up in their imprisonment, tangled in their psychic trauma. The result is that everything they produce is pretty much bound to be at odds with everything that ever was or ever was perceived to be connected to their hated captors, the Exalts. The sole exception are the Green Sun Princes, who, as Exalts, have a glimmer of the unbound nature of the narrative in them, in which anything might somehow come to pass. The Urge binds them to their Yozi masters, but perhaps the Yozis realize that the GSPs are their lifeline to some future in which they transcend their current unchanging reality. It remains to be seen.

I really wouldn't give the Yozis their own place along this heirarchy. There is nothing making them more like to Oblivion than Gaia. If anything, Gaia is further from the Wyld than any other Primordial, with Oramus closer, possibly. Otherwise good, agreed, etc.

The Neverborn: Neither all rule like Raksha or one set of rules like Creation, the Neverborn are consumed by one Rule: Oblivion. To erase and negate, to take the infinite possibilities of everything and render them a null sum, this is their dream. One rule forever, erasing even time. But, the Neverborn face a terrible reality; can their infinite, dying selves ever be fully consumed, bringing them the annihilation they have sought since their "death" at the hands of the Exalts? They don't care if it's possible, for they are even more bound by their obsession than the Yozis, as their concepts are "dreaming" in their half-death, unable to actually realize any form apart from the Oblivion of which they dream. The Deathlords and Deathknights are their instruments, but their interaction with Creation taints their embodiment of the dream of the Neverborn, so perhaps all is not yet lost.

What is a Neverborn, really? You express it pretty well that we get to decide, as an unknown.
Closer to oblivion than anything except maybe spectres. They might aim a lot closer to the Wyld, or be just one step away.

Other questions suggest themselves. Where are Gods, Dragon Kings, etc.? What then of spirits in Autochthonia (I imagine they fall at Yozi), and Blight Zones that do not even have dead essence?

What if a Deathknight and a Raksha had a baby? This has recently happened, essentially due to Solar instigation. I need to know about what the children could be like. More thematically and fluff-wise, obviously, than mechanically.

Thanks again.

Depends how much the child is a conflict between cosmic forces and how much they're just a weird kid. Both parents are several steps inward from the edge of the scales,
Wyld->Shinma->Unshaped->Raksha | Abyssal <- Deathlord <- Neverborn <- Oblivion
which is interesting. Were they born the 'natural' resonance-provoking way, or did the raksha parent use Akshata Sexual Methodology to swear them into existence; those things will probably shape their outlook.

I imagine they would occupy a relatively unique position as both a Creature of the Wyld and a Creature of Death at the same time. You can give them the conflicting themes of 'change' and 'stasis', but their are probably more focused themes they could have, based on the specific aspects their aprents 'represented' or just their own self. Likely have quite a theme of not fitting in. Mostly, I would think they'd be like Raksha with Assumption of Cerements and Bone, with a deathly theme that nevertheless is dramatic, like Stygian trials and the resolution of fetters.

The mechanics suggest that the parent with higher essence have more influence on the child, with the Abyssal having more influence if they are equal, or more influence 'per' essence dot. AS QWERTYSTOP says below, they are the more magical being.

[Qwertystop]

Well. That's an interesting scale of ranges. What matters more here, I think, us the scale of power levels. Which is more powerful? That's probably the primary influence on the child. In this case, solaroid Exaltations are more powerful than Raksha (I feel like there should be more "h"s in there somewhere). The resulting preset would thus still be focused on Oblivion, but with a much more creative range of interpretations of that theme, and a wide variety of methods. Probably no dull number-boosters unless they require stunting. Wouldn't be too surprised to see lenient-interpretation-of-phrasing-based powers, as in "I can kill anything, therefore I can kill your wounds." Personally, that sort of thing is a pet peeve for me whenever the powers aren't somehow explicitly based on natural language (seriously? your magic is defined at all levels by conversational English?), but it wouldn't surprise me to see something like that in anything blending Raksha with narrowness.

[Phelix-Mu]

Alright, lemme see if I can go point-by-point. Talking this out is helping me solidify my idea anyway (I mostly freebase this stuff on the fly during session).

@Recaiden:

- Yeah, I left out the "Wyld" step because I was being lazy. Raksha themselves are like little facets of the uncontrolled randomness of Pure Chaos. Thanks for reminding me of the Shinma, though.

- In my mind, Solars are connected to the stability of Creation due to Creation Ruling Mandate, being given title to the status quo by Sol in return for their service in the big war, and given big latitude to alter things as they see fit. Lunars, connected to Luna's every-shifting nature, are intrinsically in-tune not with the status quo, but with the spirit of the dream of Creation (is it me, or is Luna shown being closer in spirit to Gaia than Sol?).

- Part of my scale has to do with dreams. Raksha see everything as a dream; to them, reality and imagination are one in the same, reflections of each other constantly in shift. To mortals, bound within Creation, their dreams ascend from the construct of Creation toward unbound possibility (this is why the Raksha find them fascinating; mortals dreams are like little mini-Wylds inside an otherwise humdrum reality). Exalts are mortals granted the ability to make their dreams manifest via their world-shaping powers. The Primordials each have an infinite array of dreams, but all on a theme. Gaia's dream is the fabric of Creation, her subsouls forming the elementals and dragons that oversee the rules set up by Cytherea and operating according to Principals of Hierarchy and so forth. Gods are an intrinsic part of the construct, but their immortal nature leads them to grow beyond the roles originally defined for them; their dreams generally echo the actions of their Primordial masters, a growth toward Heaven and a release from their labors (there are notable exceptions that are fine with their given roles, but the decay in Heaven is a part of my game).

- The Primordials in my game came out of the Wyld (and possibly were previously Shinma themselves, unconfirmed), and proceeded to make the basic form of Creation, starting with Time, then Space, and so forth. In doing so, they solidified themselves away from the Wyld, granting their own dreams the characteristic themes that each of them embodies; each could still do "anything," but whatever they do always is done within their theme and flavored by their self-concept. Thus, each has vast dreams, but always following a specific rule/series of rules (or concept/flavor/etc). This narrowing of the Wyld and the implications of the rules really irked the Raksha, and thus their war.

- Agreed that Yozis are not actually closer to Oblivion. I was trying to illustrate their their dreams and rules are now not entirely their own; they accepted new rules in the vows at the end of the war that turned them into parodies of themselves and limited the scope of their dreams/defrocked them. Thus, if anything, they are now limited by the way in which the dreams of the Exalted (and their godly instigators) have come into ascendancy in Creation. Essentially, someone bound them with a bunch of totally unnatural rules designed to keep them bound (something not very natural for Primordials).

- The Underworld and the Dead are like a bunch of negative numbers to Creation's positive sums and differences, working toward the final Zero that Oblivion represents (right before it erases the concept of enumeration and becomes null set).

- The gods and the Dragon Kings are forms of the dreams of the Primordials granted existence by their designs. Their dreams are not as vast as mortals' in comparison, because their essential selves are already quite large and powerful (either in their eternal nature bound to Creation, or their ability to exist across life-death-reincarnation, gods and Dragon Kings respectively).

- I am not well-versed in Autochthonia, mainly because I placed it in the pile of books that I didn't have time for when I dove into the deep end of the Exalted-verse some nine months ago, then having exactly zero knowledge of the mechanics or setting of this game. My rough impression from what I read here and elsewhere is that Autochthonia was set up as a kind of alternate Creation, a construct working on similar principle, but with different rules and operating parameters. Thus, similar to Hell or Heaven, Autochthonia is just a different flavor of reality, operating alongside Creation proper (though separated by Plot Kitty).

- Frost Lily, one of the Seven Stormwinds with a fascination with Deathknights, was introduced to Son of Crows by our resident Solar doctor. Princess Magnificent is a belle-weather ally of the circle, and Son of Crows was a perpetual disappointment to her, so when the Solar doctor fixed Son of Crows from a drooling, ravening hunchback to just a hunchback, Princess Magnificent allowed him to be introduced to Frost Lily by the Matchmaker Solar. Thus began a whirlwind romance, as the Raksha noble and the Deathknight discovered that, thanks to some Solar counseling, the restrictive and dead-end nature of Death isn't as bleak as it may seem, and that some concepts can endure even across the separation between the positive and negative numbers (to use the earlier metaphor). In short, Son of Crows began to imagine a future unbound by the final state of Oblivion, and Frost Lily began to think that maybe the Deathlords and Neverborn aren't mega-terrible (as the idea of undead Primordials is even more abhorrent to Raksha than normal Primordials).

- Strictly speaking, Frost Lily was, from a rough idea, E5 to Son of Crows E3 when they met (I think). When the kids came into the picture, it was more E5 and E4. Son of Crows began to specialize in Labyrinthine architecture and spatial warping, while Frost Lily borrowed a Chancel and they worked on combining Wyld-tech and the less abominable forms of Necrotech (since the Solar was keeping an eye on them, and since Son of Crows didn't have a good supply of ghosts in the first place).

@Qwertystop: Thanks for the comments. I like your interpretation of how resulting powers might be used; I had an entire D&D campaign revolving around Words of Power and the nature of language, so I like that type of theme.

[GenericMook]

So guys, I want to ttry tackling GWM, but I'm not keen on cross-referencing the errata and the actual book for the whole thing. Is there any sort of compiled PDF or something that includes the errata?

[Phelix-Mu]

So guys, I want to ttry tackling GWM, but I'm not keen on cross-referencing the errata and the actual book for the whole thing. Is there any sort of compiled PDF or something that includes the errata?

If such a compilation exists, I would love to know. I have the paper GWM and the .pdf errata, but going back and forth is pretty much the opposite of fun.

Also, warning: GWM is crazy more complicated than the other MoEPs and systems. Dunno why. The stuff is just hard to figure out and not clearly written much of the time.

And then they errata'd it, though some of the old stuff was seriously unhinged (and has since been nerfed and replaced by other, different seriously unhinged stuff).

[Hiro Protagonest]

So guys, I want to ttry tackling GWM,

Well there's your problem.

[Sith_Happens]

What if a Deathknight and a Raksha had a baby? This has recently happened, essentially due to Solar instigation. I need to know about what the children could be like. More thematically and fluff-wise, obviously, than mechanically.

Two words: Perky goth.

[Recaiden]

@Generic Mook: May meschlum have mercy on you. There is no compiled PDF, sadly. You need to refer to both pretty frequently. One of the things about GWM is that it has several different systems in it. Raksha, Shaping Combat, and Grace Magic.

- Part of my scale has to do with dreams. Raksha see everything as a dream; to them, reality and imagination are one in the same, reflections of each other constantly in shift. To mortals, bound within Creation, their dreams ascend from the construct of Creation toward unbound possibility (this is why the Raksha find them fascinating; mortals dreams are like little mini-Wylds inside an otherwise humdrum reality). Exalts are mortals granted the ability to make their dreams manifest via their world-shaping powers.

A neat way to look at it. One thing that struck me is that both Raksha and Exalts have ways to change their dream-perception of reality. With enough Staff (and maybe Heaven Rains Wisdom) thy realize the difference between thought and reality in the world. Abyssals also have that charm where they never have to sleep, because they never wake up from the nightmare.

[SaurOps]

Lunars are closest to the Wyld, while Sidereals and Terrestrials operate in concert with the construct known as Creation.

That's going bye-bye in the next edition, according to the developer ideas that have been let out into public view. As well it should be, since having anything to do with the Wyld only ever had to do with attempting to flee from Terrestrial and Sidereal extermination squads, and doesn't really constitute a deep, integral connection that the character type really needs.