So I finally saw Frozen...

[huttj509]

When I was young, I had issues with stress and anger management; lashing out at people, that sort of thing. I learned to be more aware of my moods, manage my feelings, and keep control, out of fear of hurting someone.

More recently, I've been realizing it's gone a bit too far, in that I have difficulty getting close to people, for fear that I'll lose my control at some point, despite not having had issues with violence recently (last 15+ years), even when provoked, in part, due to my control/awareness.

Obviously, my life is a deliberate metaphor for someone else and entirely different issues.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Gay people in the closet can find strength in the song and scene because of it.

DISCLAIMER: People who find strength in the song should take a very close look at the scene before finding strength in that, the context of the scene is very different from the song!

[Lord Raziere]

DISCLAIMER: People who find strength in the song should take a very close look at the scene before finding strength in that, the context of the scene is very different from the song!

Disclaimer: People who screw with other peoples sources of strength, and smile about it, ARE NOT PEOPLE I FIND LIKABLE.

seriously, why do you feel the need to do this? how would you feel if I attacked what you find strength in? for some reason, this statement just sets me off, so explain and explain quick what you mean by it, or I'm not going to be very pleased with you.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Disclaimer: People who screw with other peoples sources of strength, and smile about it, ARE NOT PEOPLE I FIND LIKABLE.

seriously, why do you feel the need to do this? how would you feel if I attacked what you find strength in? for some reason, this statement just sets me off, so explain and explain quick what you mean by it, or I'm not going to be very pleased with you.

I'm not 'attacking' anything...Let It Go, on it's own and out of context, is exactly the sort of thing people should be drawing strength from. In the movie and in context of the scene the song takes place, it's really not because what Elsa's doing and what she's singing about are two greatly different things. Song? Very inspirational. Scene itself? Much less so since it's the exact opposite of the inspirational song and basically (trimming off all the fun interpretation bits that make it really exciting) is about how Elsa is doing the exact same thing she was doing before, just in a different cage and deluding herself into thinking that anything is different while essentially abandoning her responsibilities for a temporary bandage. It's a fantastic character building moment to be perfectly honest, but I don't think anyone is or should be endorsing running away from your problems or convincing yourself that they're gone when they've actually gotten worse. Down that path lies only misery.

...Other people have noticed that...right?

EDIT: I also have to admit a dislike when people assume I'm attacking anything or threaten a withdrawal of personal approval for...well anything honestly. If I'm attacking anything, it would be blatantly obvious and much, much more spiteful.

[Aedilred]

...Other people have noticed that...right?

Yeah, I touched on it earlier. You have to divorce the song from its context before the message becomes legitimately inspirational. Even then, some of the lyrics might give pause for thought.

[Nilehus]

...Other people have noticed that...right?

Yeah... Let It Go is a great inspirational song when you just listen to the lyrics. In the context of the story, though, it's not Elsa 'freeing' herself, it's her shoving her problems in the closet and pretending they don't exist.

She only frees herself when she finally is willing to both receive and give love and support from Anna, when she's not slamming the door in Anna's face. That's one of the big points of the movie, I thought.

[Lord Raziere]

I didn't see that, I saw her finally being able to use her powers, a release, a chance to flex her muscles and show herself what she can really do with her powers- and kind of to show they aren't really inherently bad, they can be used for good or bad- to make a bunch of cool structures and whatnot, as well as throw things into winter. she was able to cast a spell to keep Olaf from melt, I'm pretty sure she could figure out a way to to make new homes for people with out them melting either.

that and she kind of needed to get away from people for a time. what she feared was the judgement of others, and the palace while a cage, was a big source of that judgement. the ice house? not really, its something she made with those powers, and kind of proof that its not all bad and dark. I can relate to the kind of emotional recovery she was going through- people around her, bothering her would only make the problem worse because it would be too distracting while you put your emotions in order. some people just need time to calm down, think things over for themselves after a big shocking incident like they had just then.

really, I think it fit perfectly, because she decided to stop trying to contain and suppress her power, sure she was still isolated from everyone else, but she first has to take the step of accepting the power first then building up from there, just like some people have to sort things out internally before they can even start working on fixing things externally. the situation to me is comparable to keep an artist from making paintings for years and years and they finally snap, run off and paint somewhere in isolation trying to make a painting see? they need on some level to paint, because thats what they like to do. at that point Elsa needed to get rid of the internal pressures she was experiencing more than the external ones, because the internal ones can destroy you much more than any external judgement if you don't find a way to release and actually express yourself, even if no one is around to hear it.

its inspirational because it does fit, she is letting go of her own internalized suppression and false mask, she has become more accepting of herself, and healthier than she started out. I'm more quizzical of what your seeing.

[Callos_DeTerran]

its inspirational because it does fit, she is letting go of her own internalized suppression and false mask, she has become more accepting of herself, and healthier than she started out. I'm more quizzical of what your seeing.

Well, first, I'm just going to link you to another review of that scene that will explain all of my points much better then I can. Here! I'll take a crack at explaining it myself though.

I didn't see that, I saw her finally being able to use her powers, a release, a chance to flex her muscles and show herself what she can really do with her powers- and kind of to show they aren't really inherently bad, they can be used for good or bad- to make a bunch of cool structures and whatnot, as well as throw things into winter. she was able to cast a spell to keep Olaf from melt, I'm pretty sure she could figure out a way to to make new homes for people with out them melting either.

A 'chance to flex her muscles' is not, in and of itself, a good thing...it's just a thing. It all depends on how she uses it, and in this case she creates a palace for herself with the obvious intention of never leaving it again which would...be putting her into a self-imposed exile.

that and she kind of needed to get away from people for a time. what she feared was the judgement of others, and the palace while a cage, was a big source of that judgement. the ice house? not really, its something she made with those powers, and kind of proof that its not all bad and dark. I can relate to the kind of emotional recovery she was going through- people around her, bothering her would only make the problem worse because it would be too distracting while you put your emotions in order. some people just need time to calm down, think things over for themselves after a big shocking incident like they had just then.

Okay, I can get that...but you're usually just getting away from people temporarily because humans are innately social creatures that crave human contact. Hell, Elsa craved human contact, even if she was scared of them. Sure the ice house is awesome, but she makes it as a permanent get-away from other people. She went from the castle and 'internal' isolation (wherein she did her best to keep others away from her but was forced to be around them) to the ice-castle and 'external' isolation wherein she went to very extreme measures to never have to be around people again.

really, I think it fit perfectly, because she decided to stop trying to contain and suppress her power, sure she was still isolated from everyone else, but she first has to take the step of accepting the power first then building up from there, just like some people have to sort things out internally before they can even start working on fixing things externally. the situation to me is comparable to keep an artist from making paintings for years and years and they finally snap, run off and paint somewhere in isolation trying to make a painting see? they need on some level to paint, because thats what they like to do. at that point Elsa needed to get rid of the internal pressures she was experiencing more than the external ones, because the internal ones can destroy you much more than any external judgement if you don't find a way to release and actually express yourself, even if no one is around to hear it.

Being isolated from everyone else was a big part of the problem though! Elsa's loneliness only exacerbated the problem, her acceptance of her powers was...I don't know, not really a thing? She's always accepted she had them, they were just a source of stress for what she accidentally did with them is all. Really though, just read that analysis.

There's also the more basic stuff like talking about being free of the past and the first thing she does is create Olaf, a reminder of her past and how the song ends with her slamming the door, again, etc. etc.

[Avilan the Grey]

I am well aware that she isolates herself. But this time she does it by choice.

But I fail to see the rest as a "bad" thing. She embraces her true self. She comes out of hiding. She does indeed "flex her powers" and it is very much a good thing. Her powers are as much a part of her as her legs. In essence she has not been allowed to walk since she was a young girl.

In short, no, I fail to see most of your points.

[Lord Raziere]

yeah, read it, I'm not seeing it.

I myself have aspergers. and her actions in the movie match up a lot with what I experienced. and to me loneliness is more empowering than socializing. socializing is terrifying, its exposing yourself to other people's judgement, its taking a risk every time you speak, while I often needed the loneliness to keep myself in control, to take a break from interacting with the people around me, to have a sanctuary to fall back on so that I have a place to recover from and come out stronger.

heck, as an aspergers, there have been times when I couldn't contain or control my anger any more, and have hurt people with said anger and had to isolate myself to calm down, then apologize later when I have recovered. there are also times when I had to put on a shell like Elsa did early in the movie to control myself around people I don't like so that I didn't melt down in anger and made the situation worse, and I hated every second of it- but I still did it, because the alternative is worse.

the ice house wasn't really a cage, because cages don't allow yourself to be expressed, it was a sanctuary, and while it was isolation, there are good reasons behind said isolation- her powers are dangerous, and she isolated herself in a different way to protect the people around her, particularly from foreign rulers who might take the accidental harm of her powers the wrong way- which again, I can relate, as I have anger/stress issues that made it harder for me to control my anger which I had to learn to control and express in a way that wasn't harmful. you can only control something through practice, and by making such things she was grabbing more control of it, more than just keeping it down and denying it. in a way, its an opportunity for her to practice her powers without harming others, which is vital- as is vital for me to seek ways to express my emotions and anger without other people getting caught during a hard time for me and thus accidentally harm them emotionally, because I can be socially clueless even at the best of times, when I'm not thinking rationally that can increase exponentially.

by releasing her powers like this, she is no longer letting the turmoil have any control over her- it only comes back when other people do and don't let her sort things out, which is understandable given the situation, meanwhile she didn't KNOW that she made eternal winter, it was only when she was informed of it that she relapsed back into "conceal don't feel", because she couldn't think of a way to get farther away to keep others safe, which speaks less to me of her somehow not being empowered and more being concerned about other peoples lives, which again I understand because I don't want to interact with people because such interactions can be stressful and with aspergers stress can be explosive, at least in my case, and therefore I don't want to hurt the people around me just because I got stressed out. I don't see anything wrong or dark in that scene, its a vital part of her recovery, sure she had to eventually come out and interact but the point is that does fit the scene and it is empowering, she finally has some space, finally has room to breathe when all her life she has been locked in a stuffy castle filled with servants, her sister, and various property as well as people around her that she could harm if her powers got out of control.

hey if other people can use it as a gay metaphor, I can certainly well use it for an aspergers metaphor as well. just saying.

[Callos_DeTerran]

I am well aware that she isolates herself. But this time she does it by choice.

But I fail to see the rest as a "bad" thing. She embraces her true self. She comes out of hiding. She does indeed "flex her powers" and it is very much a good thing. Her powers are as much a part of her as her legs. In essence she has not been allowed to walk since she was a young girl.

In short, no, I fail to see most of your points.

Not true at all though, isolation by choice is still isolation and it is hardly by choice considering her abrupt display of power by her subjects. The only difference is that she gets to pick where she's isolated. Why would it bother her less if the isolation is just in a different spot?

Also, the rest is a bad thing, she goes into hiding and while she flexes her powers she does it while talking in a manner that makes it very unclear about how she might use them. Nor was she not allowed to use them before, it was she couldn't control them. Yeah, she's riding an emotional high now but by her own visible emotions and her previous characterization in the movie, you can make the not entirely unreasonable claim that she's probably not going to be happy with her new state of being either.

[Dienekes]

I see it very much as a halfway mark. Elsa needed to do two things, accept herself and find her place in society. In the beginning she did not accept herself and cut herself off from society, this was shown to ultimately be self defeating. During Let It Go she accepts herself but rejects society, which may be empowering herself but she ignores how her actions would affect her sister that she is supposed to care for and her people. I thought it's problems were obvious there in the song, but it is better shown when she is told how her actions are screwing everyone over and she does nothing. Empowerment disregarding the well being of others, ignoring your responsibilities to those around you may feel good but it is a selfish and short sighted way to live. It is only at the end when she tries to help her sister that we see her both accept herself and take her place among other people that her arc is really complete. Let It Go is an interesting song when looking at the themes it portrays, accepting yourself while disregarding the opinions of others. Doing so can be good, after all at the end of the day we each need to be able to look at ourselves in the mirror and people as a whole can be bigoted *******s, however, it can also be very bad as a lot of time people's opinions are an important context for what is and isn't good for those around you.

[Lord Raziere]

Not true at all though, isolation by choice is still isolation and it is hardly by choice considering her abrupt display of power by her subjects. The only difference is that she gets to pick where she's isolated. Why would it bother her less if the isolation is just in a different spot?

Also, the rest is a bad thing, she goes into hiding and while she flexes her powers she does it while talking in a manner that makes it very unclear about how she might use them. Nor was she not allowed to use them before, it was she couldn't control them. Yeah, she's riding an emotional high now but by her own visible emotions and her previous characterization in the movie, you can make the not entirely unreasonable claim that she's probably not going to be happy with her new state of being either.

because she needs a sanctuary. a safe place. y'know, someplace where she won't be judged and can release without worrying about others. and she is still young, of course she is uncertain about how to use them, its not as if there is any specific job for ice sorcerers in her world, or any other ice sorcerers at all. with freedom comes choice and with choice comes uncertainty about what choice to make. just a fact of existence.

[Math_Mage]

Yes, Elsa is running away. She is also embracing herself. Both narratives exist in the context of the story, and both are crucial steps in Elsa's growth. Yes, both. There's a vast difference between taking responsibility and doing what is expected of you for fear of judgment. Elsa's flight is about escaping the latter; building the former comes later, in this case (in real life, these steps are rarely so cleanly segregated). The gap is painful for everyone--art reflects life--but that's not a condemnation of her character.

[Silfir]

Before it all came down in ruins, Elsa was living according to the rules and limitations her parents passed on to her, trying her best to fulfill everyone else's expectations of the Queen, while at the same time isolated, depressed, anxious and barely holding it together. Let It Go marks the moment when that baggage comes off - she's finally free to decide her own fate, to decide her own role and purpose in life, for her own reasons, and do something she feels like doing for a change. It's not the *only* step - far from it - but it's the first, and a necessary one. From that point on, she's making her own decisions. They turn out to suck (because deeply traumatized young people whose life is turned completely upside down in a moment's time tend to get negative modifiers to their decision-making checks), for reasons she didn't foresee, but they were made with good intentions in mind - to protect Anna Arendelle everything that's important to her from grave danger.

[Avilan the Grey]

It is a halfway mark, but it is also very very neccesary. Elsa NEEDS to find herself, cut loose and finally let go of all the baggage she is carrying. All this happens in this sequence.
One can argue a lot of things, but I don't agree that anyone can argue seriously that flexing her powers is a bad thing in itself.

Anyway... Back to something from a page or so back:

I do find glee in reading those reviews that predicted failure. Always do.
I don't care that much if the odd critic dislike a movie, taste is subjective after all and so are reviews*. But when they start throwing out absolute predictions that then fail, it becomes fun.

In this case many of the few (if that makes sense) that really put low scores on this movie did so because they didn't like the music. That's fair, it is a musical, and if you don't like the music... well.
However I have read several statements from these critics along the line of "kids will never sing along to these songs", "Unfitting for kids", "too complicated", "no memorable songs whatsoever" etc.
Well, don't quit your daytime job (as a movie critic ) because as a MUSIC critic you stink!

Not only is it factually wrong, the soundtrack was fully endorsed by kids of all ages. Including me. But I have seen several people that work with music and kids on a professional level saying that kids WANT complicated songs (that are also good, of course). One of the reasons (aside from Elsa) Let It Go is so very popular with young kids is because it is a challenge. And kids instinctively seek challenges.

*In fact, people who call for reviews to be objective have no clue. Reviews, per definition are, and should be, subjective.

[MLai]

(1) The songs in Frozen are in a different vein from the older Disney movie songs (Little Mermaid, Aladdin, etc). It's definitely more... conversational... modern Broadway-ish. I'm of the camp that really don't like it. It's great when you see the actors belt them out on stage, because it's part of the play's narrative, and stuff is happening on stage during the song. But it makes bad songs to sing to. Let It Go is basically the only exception from Frozen, even though it's still in that style.

(2) Agree with Raziere regarding the movie scene during Let It Go. Even while watching the movie, I knew it was a halfway point for Elsa. First she had to accept herself. Later she has to reconcile with others. However, it's this halfway point that is the exciting part to watch. It resonates with ppl because they have not even reached that halfway point yet IRL.

(3) I had never said that the only message you can take from Frozen is pro-LGBT. I said it is strongly pro-LGBT. Big difference. It is the ppl who argued against me who kept trying to strawman that all-or-nothing position. I was arguing against the stance that Frozen has no LGBT allegory whatsoever, or that it's not an ounce more significant than any other obscure theme you could draw to it.

Just clarifying my position on that. I'm done arguing about it, don't even.

[Avilan the Grey]

(1) The songs in Frozen are in a different vein from the older Disney movie songs (Little Mermaid, Aladdin, etc). It's definitely more... conversational... modern Broadway-ish. I'm of the camp that really don't like it. It's great when you see the actors belt them out on stage, because it's part of the play's narrative, and stuff is happening on stage during the song. But it makes bad songs to sing to. Let It Go is basically the only exception from Frozen, even though it's still in that style.

(2) Agree with Raziere regarding the movie scene during Let It Go. Even while watching the movie, I knew it was a halfway point for Elsa. First she had to accept herself. Later she has to reconcile with others. However, it's this halfway point that is the exciting part to watch. It resonates with ppl because they have not even reached that halfway point yet IRL.

(3) I had never said that the only message you can take from Frozen is pro-LGBT. I said it is strongly pro-LGBT. Big difference. It is the ppl who argued against me who kept trying to strawman that all-or-nothing position. I was arguing against the stance that Frozen has no LGBT allegory whatsoever, or that it's not an ounce more significant than any other obscure theme you could draw to it.

Just clarifying my position on that. I'm done arguing about it, don't even.

1. Definitely disagree. Let It Go is the second hardest song to sing, after Fixer-Uper. Not that they are impossible. I, personally like it.

3. See, you are confusing Allegory and Applicability. There is no gay allegory in Frozen. Just like LOTR. It is not a Christian Allegory, nor it is an Allegory over WWII (or I).
“I think that many confuse applicability with allegory, but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author.” - J.R.R. Tolkien.

[Aedilred]

(3) I had never said that the only message you can take from Frozen is pro-LGBT. I said it is strongly pro-LGBT. Big difference. It is the ppl who argued against me who kept trying to strawman that all-or-nothing position. I was arguing against the stance that Frozen has no LGBT allegory whatsoever, or that it's not an ounce more significant than any other obscure theme you could draw to it.

I'm not sure how anything can be strongly pro-anything, though, when it neither references the thing it is supposedly "strongly pro-" at all nor develops a clear metaphor for it. While the message of Frozen is applicable, like Avilan says (rather than allegorical), it's applicable to so much that it's hard to identify any particular cause that it's actually in favour of. So it's pro-LGBT in the same way that, say, oxygen is, since in providing life to everyone oxygen also supports LGBT people. But it's more incidentally so, or by default, than strongly so.

[Knaight]

I'm not saying you can't take a message from the film that's pro-LGBT, but to say the film and its message is "strongly" so when LGBT issues are never mentioned overtly, or even referenced obliquely in a way that distinguishes them from literally any other person who considers themselves marginalised in any way for any reason... is really forcing the issue.

I'm not sure how anything can be strongly pro-anything, though, when it neither references the thing it is supposedly "strongly pro-" at all nor develops a clear metaphor for it. While the message of Frozen is applicable, like Avilan says (rather than allegorical), it's applicable to so much that it's hard to identify any particular cause that it's actually in favour of. So it's pro-LGBT in the same way that, say, oxygen is, since in providing life to everyone oxygen also supports LGBT people. But it's more incidentally so, or by default, than strongly so.

I'd say that this is particularly relevant to LGBT, largely because of the parenting angle. A great deal of other marginalized groups are unlikely to have the same dynamic. Take racism - a pair of white supremacists aren't exactly likely to have a child that isn't white. It can happen (via adoption), but it's pretty unlikely. Straight supremacists or cis supremacists? That's a bit more likely. There are a few other things which also come in here (e.g. mental illness, disability) which can be similar, but it's hardly not distinguished from anyone else.

That's before we get into things like the cultural context around the release of the movie. Even if it wasn't particularly pro-LGBT, that interpretation was bound to become central the instant the backlash happened, and there was a great deal of backlash along those lines, along with a few other things ("it's a cynical movie that destroys childhood innocence about love" stands out, if only because of the sheer absurdity).

[Traab]

To me what changes this from being a lgbt message to a more generic one is the scale of the "problem" Had this been a movie about a girl named elsa who was born able to sprout wings according to her mood and her parents kept her isolated and locked up in an effort to get her to control when they pop out, I would agree more with the idea that it was a solid metaphor for lgbt lifestyles and how friends and family can react to something relatively innocuous that is treated like a big deal by everyone else. But because instead elsa had a difference that was legitimately dangerous and deadly, one that had to be controlled if she didnt want to kill everyone around her, it changes from a message of parents who want her to fit in and be normal, to parents who dont want their kids to die and/or be killed by them accidentally.

You have to disregard all the motivations, and genuine reasons for why things played out as they did to get a message of "They wanted to repress her and make her normal" or whatever the lgbt conclusion is. If all you pay attention to is, "They kept her isolated and alone and tried to make her act normal" Then you are ignoring the part that she was kept isolated so she didnt accidentally near kill her sister and everything she touches becomes frostbitten or worse. And "acting normal" meant NOT turning everything you touch into an ice statue. They werent worried people would look down on them for having a strange child, they were worried the next time elsa hugged someone, that person would die!

[Avilan the Grey]

Exactly. You can only see it as a clear-cut allegory for anything if you completely disregard the actual in-story events.

[Math_Mage]

To me what changes this from being a lgbt message to a more generic one is the scale of the "problem" Had this been a movie about a girl named elsa who was born able to sprout wings according to her mood and her parents kept her isolated and locked up in an effort to get her to control when they pop out, I would agree more with the idea that it was a solid metaphor for lgbt lifestyles and how friends and family can react to something relatively innocuous that is treated like a big deal by everyone else. But because instead elsa had a difference that was legitimately dangerous and deadly, one that had to be controlled if she didnt want to kill everyone around her, it changes from a message of parents who want her to fit in and be normal, to parents who dont want their kids to die and/or be killed by them accidentally.

You have to disregard all the motivations, and genuine reasons for why things played out as they did to get a message of "They wanted to repress her and make her normal" or whatever the lgbt conclusion is. If all you pay attention to is, "They kept her isolated and alone and tried to make her act normal" Then you are ignoring the part that she was kept isolated so she didnt accidentally near kill her sister and everything she touches becomes frostbitten or worse. And "acting normal" meant NOT turning everything you touch into an ice statue. They werent worried people would look down on them for having a strange child, they were worried the next time elsa hugged someone, that person would die!

1. This caveat applies equally to any other "generic problem".
2. I don't think anyone's arguing that this message is specifically LGBT, only that LGBT is one clear analogue--perhaps an especially good analogue due to certain particular (as Knaight mentioned).
3. People keep forgetting that homosexuality really was considered dangerous not that long ago.
4. The analogy is to Elsa's experience; that the nature of her powers legitimate her fears and her parents' fears doesn't change anything about the experience of fearing and repressing her identity.
5. Even if we accept that the nature of Elsa's powers impact the discussion, can someone explain how that excuses the way her parents handle things? "Fear is the enemy, so let's teach Elsa to fear her power, fear discovery, fear being afraid, and nothing can possibly go wrong!"

[Avilan the Grey]

She was only supposed to be isolated until she learned to control it.
Her parents KNEW that the more nervous and scared she got, the less control she had. Her father is TRYING to do the same thing Anna does later, but Elsa is too panicked to realize that.

Then her parents DIE, and she locks herself in, basically. We will never know if he dad would have been able to help her.

Oh and 1840 the treatment of mental illnesses were not... good.

[Math_Mage]

She was only supposed to be isolated until she learned to control it.

No guidance, no training, terrible learning environment, it's just supposed to *happen*...I guess they call it "magical thinking" for a reason.

Her parents KNEW that the more nervous and scared she got, the less control she had. Her father is TRYING to do the same thing Anna does later, but Elsa is too panicked to realize that.

That being?

Then her parents DIE, and she locks herself in, basically. We will never know if he dad would have been able to help her.

Given the lessons he'd been giving her to that point? Probably not.

Oh and 1840 the treatment of mental illnesses were not... good.

While that partially explains the cause of the problem, it's really just reinforcing my point

[Jayngfet]

No guidance, no training, terrible learning environment, it's just supposed to *happen*...I guess they call it "magical thinking" for a reason.

Which is the issue. There is no one to guide her.

Lets take a step back for a moment and realize that there is literally nothing that could have been done that would result in both a safe and happy Elsa when you couple teenaged angst with giant death spikes. There's no parenting manual or previous case within about six to eight hundred years to consult. There's no one great solution that was just obviously missed and nobody had any advice that was even going to work.

If they just let her roam around after the incident it wouldn't stop her from getting PSTD and it wouldn't make her any more safe to be around. Even regular children get angry and do things they regret, and they can't use lethal force with nearly that amount of ease.

It's not like she could have just gone out back and tried to shoot some cans over a weekend, we're dealing with obvious mental issues with no obvious fix.

[Math_Mage]

Which is the issue. There is no one to guide her.

Lets take a step back for a moment and realize that there is literally nothing that could have been done that would result in both a safe and happy Elsa when you couple teenaged angst with giant death spikes. There's no parenting manual or previous case within about six to eight hundred years to consult. There's no one great solution that was just obviously missed and nobody had any advice that was even going to work.

If they just let her roam around after the incident it wouldn't stop her from getting PSTD and it wouldn't make her any more safe to be around. Even regular children get angry and do things they regret, and they can't use lethal force with nearly that amount of ease.

It's not like she could have just gone out back and tried to shoot some cans over a weekend, we're dealing with obvious mental issues with no obvious fix.

Bull. Elsa's explosion in the movie is a direct result of the way she was brought up after the Anna incident, both in terms of her relationship with her powers and her relationship with Anna (and the rest of humanity). That Elsa has no guide or teacher demonstrates only that her parents are delusional to treat her enforced isolation as some kind of stopgap measure until she gains control of her powers by means unspecified. Might disaster still have struck if Elsa's parents had given her a healthy upbringing? Of course! But the way she was brought up ensured that she would snap under pressure. We're not talking about some vague generality like 'teenage angst'--there are clear lines from cause to effect here.

[Lord Raziere]

Elsa is the only ice sorcerer in the entire movie's world, math-mage. her unique abilities are not the result of a bloodline trait, as it would surfaced before and her family would know how to teach her to uses such magic. the trolls themselves don't actually have any advice on wielding it either- only on curing its effects. furthermore there is no "ice sorcerer" legend or whatnot of this happening before. to say that there is anyone that could've possibly taught her how to wield her power, is ludicrous. literally no one had any clue of an ice sorcerer like Elsa even being possible before. and given what she shown to others of her capabilities, no one could possibly predict that she was powerful enough to cause eternal winter. there is no one that experienced the same problem as Elsa that could teach her how to work through it so that her magic doesn't go out of control. there is no one that could predict the extent of her capabilities, absolutely no one that would teach Elsa discipline about her powers, because no one else has her powers, no one else knows what it is like, you don't know the mechanics of those powers, what it takes to cast a spell or anything, no one does. to say that someone could've taught her in learning how to control her powers is like saying that someone could teach a Jedi without feeling the Force, or a Dresden Files wizard without being able to use magic yourself, or Jeane Grey without being Xavier, and so on and so forth!
they are not forces that everyone can feel, this is not something anyone can do! to be able to teach somebody anything, they have be experienced in how it works, and there is absolutely no one experienced in Elsa's powers!

oh but you say the trolls- look aside from erasing memories and offering cryptic advice, they did jack and squat. if they really knew anything about her powers that could've done more, either they're apparently too stupid to do more, or stupidly thought that was all that was needed, so even if they did know, which I doubt, they have proven to be near useless at solving this anyways. so I'm going to assume they didn't actually know how to control her powers, just offer cryptic advice on healing its effects, instead of assuming that they knew and could somehow have done something more about it, because there is no indication of such.

seriously, math mage, what teacher could they have possibly hired for this? who could they have possibly gotten to do anything about this, when absolutely no one has any knowledge of how Elsa's powers work- except Elsa herself when she gets experienced enough to control it herself? because there is no indication that anyone in the movie- not even the trolls- has any idea about how these powers work on a level that could be taught to Elsa and thus keep her from causing this. Elsa is something completely new in her world, something completely unexpected, unheard of and unknown, a complete anomaly! there is no college of magi or jedi order for her! just whatever she figures out during her experimentation of her powers, which she can't do if she goes "conceal don't feel"! so tell me, math mage, how in this condition, could they have possibly known the right solution for handling the situation, hm? tell me how, cause I don't see it.

[Math_Mage]

Elsa is the only ice sorcerer in the entire movie's world, math-mage. her unique abilities are not the result of a bloodline trait, as it would surfaced before and her family would know how to teach her to uses such magic. the trolls themselves don't actually have any advice on wielding it either- only on curing its effects. furthermore there is no "ice sorcerer" legend or whatnot of this happening before. to say that there is anyone that could've possibly taught her how to wield her power, is ludicrous.

<more stuff about the lack of teachers>

My point was emphatically not that Elsa's parents failed because they didn't find her a teacher. I suppose I understand how my previous post could have been misread that way, but it's still a misreading.

[Jayngfet]

Bull. Elsa's explosion in the movie is a direct result of the way she was brought up after the Anna incident, both in terms of her relationship with her powers and her relationship with Anna (and the rest of humanity). That Elsa has no guide or teacher demonstrates only that her parents are delusional to treat her enforced isolation as some kind of stopgap measure until she gains control of her powers by means unspecified. Might disaster still have struck if Elsa's parents had given her a healthy upbringing? Of course! But the way she was brought up ensured that she would snap under pressure. We're not talking about some vague generality like 'teenage angst'--there are clear lines from cause to effect here.

She has no guide or teacher because no guides or teachers exist. This isn't DND where you can just walk into any town and find at least four obligatory spellcasters, this is a place where the conditions even as vague as they are only line up hundreds of years apart in the same area. The only other magic user was consulted and he couldn't actually do anything to help.

It's not that they refused any other options, it's just that no other options existed, flat out. There was no teacher, anywhere in the entire world, unless it's someone who was never mentioned or alluded to. Even assuming there are other human sorcerers alive at the time Elsa's magic is specified as being an outlier case, so they couldn't help her anyway.