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    Default Sisiutl [two-headed sea serpent from the Pacific Northwest][P.E.A.C.H.]

    Designed for Crossroads: The New World


    The curly-horned head of a monstrous sea serpent rears up out of the waves before you. At almost the same time, an identical head rises out of your wake. Moments later, a huge coil breaks the surface on your starboard side, bearing a grimacing human face. You realize, with mounting horror, that all three heads belong to a single organism.

    Sisiutl, CR 16
    XP 76,800
    LN Gargantuan magical beast (aquatic)
    Init +6; Senses darkvision 120 ft., low-light vision; Perception +8
    _____________
    DEFENSE
    AC 25, touch 8, flat-footed 23 (+2 Dex, +17 natural, –4 size)
    hp 204 (18d10+105)
    Fort +16, Ref +13, Will +7
    Defensive Abilities elusive; Immune cold; Resist fire 30
    _____________
    OFFENSE
    Speed 20 ft., swim 60 ft.
    Melee 2 bites +26 (3d6+18/19-20 plus grab)
    Space 20 ft.; Reach 15 ft.
    Special Attacks capsize, constrict (3d6+18), stony gaze (30 ft., Fort DC 23, 1d6 Dex drain), swallow whole (4d8+18 bludgeoning damage, AC 18, hp 18)
    Spell-Like Abilities (CL 18th; Concentration +18)

    _____________
    STATISTICS
    Str 34 (+12), Dex 14 (+2), Con 25 (+7), Int 15 (+2), Wis 18 (+4), Cha 18 (+4)
    Base Atk +18; CMB +34 (+38 grapple); CMD 46 (can't be tripped)
    Feats Improved Bull Rush, Improved Critical (bite), Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Power Attack, Skill Focus (Stealth), Snatch, Stealthy
    Skills Appraise +6, Diplomacy +8, Escape Artist +6, Intimidate +8, Knowledge (Geography) +4, Knowledge (History) +4, Knowledge (Nature) +6, Linguistics +14, Perception +11, Sense Motive +8, Stealth +13, Swim +9 (total ranks: 56)
    Languages Haida (4 ranks/fluent), Mandarin (3 ranks/conversational), Salish (native-speaker), Chinook Jargon (4 ranks/fluent), Tsimshianic (1 rank/novice)
    Culture(s) Native (Northwest Coast)
    _____________
    SPECIAL ABILITIES

    All-Around Vision (Ex)
    A sisiutl sees in all directions at once. It cannot be flanked.

    Capsize (Ex)
    A sisiutl can attempt to capsize a boat or ship of its size or smaller by ramming it as a charge attack and making a combat maneuver check. The DC of this check is 25 or the result of the boat captain's Profession (sailor) check, whichever is higher.

    Change Size (Ex)
    As a standard action, a sisiutl can shrink down to as small as Fine size or grow as big as Colossal. It can retain its new size for as long as it chooses. Returning to normal size is a free action. It takes all the standard bonuses and penalties for its new size (see Table: Size Changes). Until it reaches adulthood, a sisiutl can only use its Change Size ability to become as large as the largest size-category it has attained.

    Elusive (Su)
    Sisiutl have long been the stuff of maritime legends, but despite countless attempts to hunt them, they are rarely encountered unless they wish it. As a full-round action while in water, a sisiutl can move up to its run speed (300 ft.) without leaving any trace of its passing (identical in effect to a pass without trace). An elusive sisiutl gains a +40 circumstance bonus to its Stealth check. In addition, except when in combat, a sisiutl is considered to be under the effects of a nondetection spell. Both of these spell effects are at caster level 20th and cannot be dispelled.

    Split (Ex)
    Each of the sisiutl's heads functions independently of the other. On a successful critical hit with a slashing weapon, a sisiutl is cut in half. A sisiutl that is cut in half continues to function normally (each with half its current hit points) and reattaches its body together in 1d2 days. A sisiutl that has been split cannot be split again until it reattaches.

    Stony Gaze (Su)
    All living creatures that can see and are within the 30-foot range of a sistiutl's gaze attack must attempt a Fortitude save (DC 23 negates) or take 1d6 points of dexterity drain each round at the beginning of their turn. If a target is reduced to 0 Dexterity this way, it becomes petrified. A stone to flesh spell removes all Dexterity drain from this source. A sisiutl can suppress this ability as a free action. The save DC is Charisma-based, and sight-dependent (i.e., it only affects living creatures with functional eyes).

    _____________
    ECOLOGY
    Environment any ocean
    Organization solitary
    Treasure
    • A sealskin canoe that uses the bones of a sisiutl as its ribs grants a +4 competence bonus on all Survival checks to maneuver the canoe, as long as the vessel is traveling on salt-water; the canoe performs normally on freshwater bodies. The canoe must be ritually painted with a pint of seal's blood every seven days; if it is not, the competence bonus decreases to +2 until you next manage to supply it with fresh blood. For more information on maneuvering canoes, see Ultimate Combat Vehicles: Water Current.
    • A band of the stalwart warrior can be crafted by harvesting and curing the scales of a sisiutl's central "head" (effectively, only one band can be harvested from each sisiutl), without expending any of the normal item-creation costs. The band is covered in the sisiutl's scales, glittering as if covered in tiny flakes of mica, and it smells faintly of seawater.
    • When mixed with sacred herbal dyes, the blood of one sisiutl yields 4d6-4 doses of tribal war paint. Using a sisiutl blood as a construction component halves the cost of making tribal war paint, though the creator must still meet the other crafting requirements for each separate color of war paint.
    • Each sisiutl has two hearts, each of which is an extremely powerful magical artifact.
      Spoiler: Heart of the Sisiutl
      Show
      Heart of the Sisiutl
      Aura: Strong Conjuration
      Slot: Special; Price: 30,000gp; Weight: 5 lb

      Description:
      The heart of the Sisiutl is a huge, crimson organ, the size of a small watermelon, still filled with the lifeblood of the great beast. Pulled from the body of a slain Sisiutl, the heart glistens with blood, and you can practically feel the magic that radiates off it. The blood contained within has potent restorative power, but it must be consumed quickly lest the magic fade away.

      To gain the effects of the heart of the sisiutl, the user must drink the lifeblood directly from the heart, and the heart must be fresh, as well. Drinking the blood from the heart requires a full-round action that provokes an attack of opportunity. The sheer volume of blood requires a strong stomach, and the drinker must make a fortitude save (DC 19) or vomit, becoming nauseated for one minute and sickened for 24 hours. A character who fails this save does not gain the effects of this item, and the heart is consumed in the process. In addition, the heart must be fresh. Its magic normally lasts for 24 hours once removed from the sisiutl's body, but it can be preserved up to one week by preserving the heart, through magic such as a gentle repose spell, or through mundane means such as packing the heart in snow.

      A character who successfully drinks the lifeblood feels a soft, reassuring warmth deep within their body until the effect is triggered. The effect is permanent until triggered and consumed, and cannot be dispelled. The effect is triggered if the user dies for any reason, reaching -10 HP, or being killed by some other effect, even if the effect would normally leave no remains. While they will still die normally, their soul does not leave their body to go to the spirit world. On the round after their death, at the start of their former initiative, the body is magically restored, the heart's effects restoring any hit point damage, ability damage, ability drain, negative levels, lost limbs, diseases, or conditions, even creating a new body entirely if necessary. On the following round, the soul is reconnected to the body, and it returns to life, able to act immediately, though the user may return to find their new body in the same situation that killed them in the first place. There is no level loss, as with some other methods of resurrection.

      Construction Requirements:
      The Heart of the Sisiutl cannot be crafted or created by any means, it can only be harvested directly from the body of a Sisiutl. Each Sisiutl has two such hearts.


    Sisiutl (SISS-you) are two-headed sea serpents which prowl the deep waters off the coast of the Pacific Northwest. They are deeply revered by Native tribes, who consider them potent totems of war, strength, and death/rebirth. Warriors and shamans alike seek to slay them from time to time, in order to add the sisiutl's considerable strength to their own.

    The sisiutl's middle "head" is actually not a head at all: by a fluke of natural selection, the scale patterns of its midsection roughly correspond to the appearance of a grimacing human face (not unlike the shells of Japanese heike crabs).

    Sisiutls speak with both heads at once, and always refer to themselves in the plural. Though they can act independently, both heads share memories, a name, and an identity.

    Although Native tribes associate them with leadership and the office of chiefdom, sisiutls are largely solitary creatures, at least where their own kind are concerned. After hatching from the coastal shallows where their eggs were fertilized, those who survive predation spread out from their siblings as rapidly as possible, each seeking to claim as much territory as it can, usually by commanding as many larger sea creatures as they can possibly control at one time to defend them and their food supply, as soon as they are powerful enough to do so. Once they reach full adulthood (at 14 HD), they gain the ability to change their size at will, and are able to shrink down as small as an inchworm or grow large enough to block off an entire bay with their bodies. It generally takes about 20 years for them to reach this size; it is not known whether sisiutls have a maximum age.

    As adults, sisiutls claim huge stretches of territory - sometimes thousands of square miles of open water, bays, tidal inlets, and other bodies of salt-water - and set themselves up as kings (or at least as very, very touchy game-wardens) of the local aquatic wildlife and sentient magical creatures. Sisiutls often demand tribute from human vessels which seek to sail through their territory, and there have been reports of a wicked sisiutls taking entire fishing villages hostage.

    Despite their severe demeanor, sisiutls are extremely honorable, and listen with respect to all who show them proper deference and make the traditional gifts which are given to great chiefs (especially seal-meat, woven blankets, copper jewelry, and tobacco). Although they fully expect to receive the gifts which are their due, sisiutls always show their gratitude towards gift-givers, and always render any service or oath they promise (but rarely more than was agreed-upon in advance).

    Sisiutls are famous for their eternal feud with thunderbirds, whom they despise. Sisiutls believe that thunderbirds encroach upon the sisiutls' rightful territory by stirring the skies into storms, without a care for the sisiutls' kingdoms. It enrages them that these mere mindless animals are given dominion over the skies and winds, to freely muddy their waters and bring chaos to their carefully-ordered worlds. They like to think of themselves as masters of all they survey, but thunderbirds can always trespass freely above their demesnes, flying maddeningly just out of reach. A thunderbird is also one of the few creatures powerful enough to slay an adult sisitul singlehandedly, so sisiutls slay the thunderbirds' young and destroy their nests whenever they can; likewise, thunderbirds consider sisiutl roe and hatchlings to be delicacies, and eat huge amounts of them whenever they get the chance.





    I know that there are sisiutl stats in Stormwrack, but I felt that a sea serpent with the amphisbaena template would really fit the legends better (since its CR is now about 4 points higher; more appropriate for a creature which was considered "one of the most high ranking crests in Kwagiulth culture".

    I also decided that the legend about it turning into a canoe was just that, a legend. I turned it from something literal into something that reflects a slightly twisted version of the truth (as real legends often do).

    I also added a bunch of uses for its body-parts, though I can't really think of specific bonuses of benefits for a lot of 'em. Suggestions?

    Also, a single sisitl could yield dozens of headbands, two elephant-sized hearts, and many cubic feet of blood; how can DMs limit their players' findings, and what's a reasonable amount to limit them to?
    Last edited by SuperDave; 2014-08-08 at 04:52 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
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    Default Re: Sisiutl [two-headed sea serpent from the Pacific Northwest][P.E.A.C.H.]

    Supernatural save DC is 10 + 1/2 creature's HD + charisma modifier. DC for Death Gaze is 19.

    Handle Canoe skill should also be Survival skill. See Drive skill in Ultimate Combat. "Smaller water-current vehicles, like canoes, use the Survival skill as the drive skill, as reading the terrain is a very important aspect of maintaining control over those types of vehicles." See here: Under Currents.

    The Amphisbaena Template is weird.

    I like nifty things to do with monster treasure.

    You should probably gain a +4 competence bonus from the canoe. I'm not a fan of cursed items. The requirement of seal blood is what makes it a cursed item. I'd like to see a way for the PCs to remove the curse without losing the benefit.

    I'm not a big fan of eating hearts either. First, it's gross. Second, you should have a mechanic that goes with eating its heart. Perhaps you have to make as Fortitude save (DC 10) or you become Nauseated for 24 hours. How long should the hearts keep before they go bad? Gaining something "awesome" should still be within the WPL guidelines and the benefit should be limited to one hour. No shenanigans on giving PCs permanent items that get digested. :-)

    Otherwise whoo-hoo!

    Debby
    Last edited by Debihuman; 2014-07-01 at 08:46 AM.
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    Default Re: Sisiutl [two-headed sea serpent from the Pacific Northwest][P.E.A.C.H.]

    Very cool monster, bro! I'll get right into the meaty bits.

    Math check:
    According to my math, the con bonus to HP should be 126.
    BAB should be equal to HD, so should be +18. This modifies your CMB/CMD values to +34 (+38 grapple) and 46, and your bite attack bonus to +26.
    The bite's damage bonus is off, too, it should be +18 for a primary weapon.

    Shouldn't it have two bites, considering the head on each end? Also, I think that bite's base damage is a bit inflated, standard for gargantuan is something like 3d6.
    I'm not sure about the reach. I think it should be 15, as most long creatures, but I suppose it could be justified either way.
    Debihuman's right, the DC on the death gaze should be 19. Though, personally, I'd bump up the wis/cha on this critter a notch or two, since it is supposed to be such a powerful, sacred critter.
    Hmm... should capsize be easier on canoes or similar small boats, or perhaps have an option to be resisted via handle canoe check?
    I don't like the wording of split, honestly. Specific damage thresholds based on the size of the attacker just seems weird as heck to me. Could you just say 'on a successful critical hit with a slashing weapon, the sisiutl is cut in half'?

    I LOVE the treasure options. I would say the unique ones should probably be stated up as their own magic items, though.
    I don't know about permanently losing the canoe's bonus if you fail to supply it with blood. Perhaps the canoe grants something like a +8, but if you fail to feed it for a week, it decreases to +2 until you next manage to supply it with blood. This could lead to players finding a nice magic canoe that suddenly turns awesome once they figure out how to reactivate the effect.
    On the war paint, 'during a single battle' is too vague a timeframe. I would say make it 24 hours, have it apply to AC and saves, and make it a... let's say +4. I would also suggest specifying how many applications of war-paint you can get from a sisiutl. You could artificially limit the number of doses this way, saying that you can't drain ALL the blood in the first place, plus, there's however much you spoiled or wasted during the battle by exposing it to seawater.
    I disagree with debi, eating hearts isn't that gross, and it certainly wouldn't be gross to the natives. I also don't think it should be an hour-long benefit, considering the hearts are so rare and hard to get. Here's an idea for the effect: The next time the character dies after eating a heart, they are reborn on the following round, with full hit points, and are cured of any ability damage or ability drain inflicted on them. Ties in with the death/rebirth aspect of their myths.

    Regarding handle canoe: Hmm. Well, in this setting it was gonna be its own skill, but I suppose we could just as easily make it a use of survival. It would help limit the skill-burden on mundane characters. There would have to be some manner of restriction to keep that usage trained only.

    Overall, definitely a VERY cool critter, bro. It just feels right.
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    Default Re: Sisiutl [two-headed sea serpent from the Pacific Northwest][P.E.A.C.H.]

    Well, I've updated the DC of the death gaze attack, but it's from a much lower CR monster (some kind of demon, don't remember which), so maybe it should deal more than 1d4 negative levels. Or is 1d4 plenty?

    Just realized I forgot to recalculate the XP, so I've changed that to a blank for now. But before we get too far into fixing the math and changing the attack/HP/etc., it ought to be noted that most of these numbers are lifted straight from the Sea Serpent I based this creature on, and the amphisbaena creature template which I applied to it does explicitly state "Do not recalculate the creature’s base attack bonus, saves, or skill points." So I left most of the numbers just as they were.

    I'm actually gonna agree with Debihuman here: eating hearts is gross, and if you're not accustomed to it, it's very difficult to keep them down (as Khaleesi Danaerys demonstrated). Maybe non-Native characters take a greater penalty to consume them, or take a penalty to Fort rolls to keep them down after eating, since they're not used to eating flesh that's still warm. I guess the big problem with it is how to limit the number of uses the players get out of it. Even if the sisiutl only had one heart (which they might, the template doesn't say), it'd still be the size of a beach ball, so nobody's going to be able to eat the whole thing. Except maybe a Tuniit. Maybe. Anyway, how do we keep players from getting eight to twelve free true resurrectionsoutta this bad boy?

    I'm going to take both of your suggestions into account when I actually write up entries for the treasure. I'm really glad you guys like it! Right now, I've got a date with my wife I've got to get to. Ta ta!
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    Default Re: Sisiutl [two-headed sea serpent from the Pacific Northwest][P.E.A.C.H.]

    For the Warpaint, I would say that the blood has to be fresh in the preparation of the warpaint, and maybe 1d6-1 vials of blood can be collected from one Sisiutl (the -1 is so that it is possible to spoil all the blood). For the heart, perhaps it's not the entire heart, but a portion of it, so only one person can use it at a time, and they can only consume one heart. And maybe the should be an option of True Resurrection, level and stat, Restoration, or if there are no levels or stats to restore, a permanent boost to 1 stat.

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    Default Re: Sisiutl [two-headed sea serpent from the Pacific Northwest][P.E.A.C.H.]

    Negative Levels
    1d4 should be plenty, especially since it's a gaze attack.

    Numbers
    That might be suitable for a single monster in a campaign, but if this is going to be it's own monster with its own entry in the book, it will need to have the numbers jive properly.

    Hearts
    I think that adding different levels of nausea for different cultures seems like it would be overly complicated. Maybe just throw in a fort save on the item entry to keep it down.
    Considering the two halves can function independently, I would say go for two hearts.
    As to limiting the number of uses out of it, you could just say that you don't have to eat the whole thing, but the effect only applies to the first person who takes a bite. Maybe rather than eating the meat of the heart, you have to drink the blood contained within it?
    I don't think making it grant a bonus to one score's a good plan. I think a true resurrection effect would work fine (though we do still have to tweak that)...

    Warpaint
    I don't know, 1d6 vials of blood from a creature this big? Since it's a relatively low bonus and relatively temporary, I would say, like, 1d20, maybe.
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    Default Re: Sisiutl [two-headed sea serpent from the Pacific Northwest][P.E.A.C.H.]

    Maybe rather than eating the meat of the heart, you have to drink the blood contained within it?
    I don't think making it grant a bonus to one score's a good plan. I think a true resurrection effect would work fine (though we do still have to tweak that)...
    That works too. I only suggested the score boost since the adventures I've been in we came across a lot of such items. But that was in 1 E.

    Warpaint
    I don't know, 1d6 vials of blood from a creature this big? Since it's a relatively low bonus and relatively temporary, I would say, like, 1d20, maybe.
    Fair enough, that was only an example. I chose 1d6 more because I wasn't sure of size, and would expect blood to be lost in the killing and extraction process. i still like the -1 idea though, but that's up to you.


    Hearts
    I think that adding different levels of nausea for different cultures seems like it would be overly complicated. Maybe just throw in a fort save on the item entry to keep it down.
    Considering the two halves can function independently, I would say go for two hearts.
    As to limiting the number of uses out of it, you could just say that you don't have to eat the whole thing, but the effect only applies to the first person who takes a bite. Maybe rather than eating the meat of the heart, you have to drink the blood contained within it?
    I don't think making it grant a bonus to one score's a good plan. I think a true resurrection effect would work fine (though we do still have to tweak that)...
    Maybe a culture feat is in need here?

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    Default Re: Sisiutl [two-headed sea serpent from the Pacific Northwest][P.E.A.C.H.]

    OK, sorry it took me a while to get to, but I've made pretty much all the changes you guys recommended, especially where the math is concerned. Do I need to modify the damage for constrict (3d6+18) and swallow whole (4d8+18 bludgeoning damage, AC 18, hp 18) as well?

    I decided that unless it's refrigerated or you cast gentle repose on it, the heart starts to go bad in 4 hours; eating it after this time requires the save that Debihuman proposed (before then, it's just kind of gross, but not impossible to do). I also decided that cooking or freezing the heart destroys its magical properties. This should prevent abuse by the players, since it severely limits the number of times they can get resurrected for free. Are we sure that they should come back at full hit points, and not half?

    Admiral Squish, you mentioned that you would "bump up the wis/cha on this critter a notch or two". Maybe it should be both, since it's very wise and respected. That'd mean I'd have to assign it some skill points, and recalcualte its Perception and maybe add a language or three, but that's no big deal. What do you say to 18 INT and 15 WIS?

    I discovered that there's actually a warpaint item in the PFSRD, so I decided that the sisiutl just yields 1d20 uses of tribal warpaint. But that means that they might only get one vial, after all the work of killing the sisiutl... maybe 3d6 uses instead?

    I think that making Capsize easier for canoes and small boats to avoid would make the mechanic needlessly complex. That's more of a question for the people who design the universal monster abilities, not about how this particular monster works.

    Edit: What about the rule that it only works on salt-water? I thought it was nice and flavorful, but it might be unnecessarily restrictive.

    Edit 2: I changed the warpaint thing from war paint of the terrible visage (which is CL 1st) to Tribal War Paint (CL 7th). This is much closer to the CL that the characters will have, but it's still a little low if they're taking on a CR 14 monster. Plus, the 100gp worth of tobacco you have to mix it with is now less than a tenth of the cost of the item. Maybe I should leave it as war paint of the terrible visage, but increase the DC of the fear saves and the CL to match what the players will actually find useful?
    Last edited by SuperDave; 2014-07-09 at 01:33 PM.
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    Default Re: Sisiutl [two-headed sea serpent from the Pacific Northwest][P.E.A.C.H.]

    Math
    Looks good, bro! The bonus damage for those abilities is 1.5x str, so you're golden. The base damages seem fine too.

    Abilties
    Hmm. Personally, I'd go with something like 10-15 int, 14-18 wis, and probably an 18 cha, since it's got a gaze that keys off that, and it should be potent.But ultimately, it's your creature, you do what you feel to be right with it.

    Items

    War Paint
    Oooh, nice find!
    Number-wise, what about 4d6-4 doses? It's got a 0-20 range, so it's possible to spoil all of it, but it's got a much more centered probability spread than the d20.
    Also, would the blood only be able to make red warpaint? Perhaps you should change the 100 VP of tobacco to 100 VP of herbal dyes.

    Heart
    This one's challenging. I think four hours is a bit too short, in the first place, and a DC 10 save would be child's play for almost any character capable of killing this character. Plus, eight doses of it seems like a lot. I'm thinking we could treat it sort of like a special potion, with you drinking the lifeblood form the heart.

    Here's my take on it:
    Spoiler
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    Heart of the Sisiutl:
    Aura: Strong Conjuration
    Slot: Special; Price: (?); Weight: 5 lb

    Description:
    The heart of the Sisiutl is a huge, crimson organ, the size of a small watermelon, still filled with the lifeblood of the great beast. Pulled from the body of a slain Sisiutl, the heart glistens with blood, and you can practically feel the magic that radiates off it. The blood contained within has potent restorative power, but it must be consumed quickly lest the magic fade away.

    To gain the effects of the heart of the sisiutl, the user must drink the lifeblood directly from the heart, and the heart must be fresh, as well. Drinking the blood from the heart requires a full-round action that provokes an attack of opportunity. The sheer volume of blood requires a strong stomach, and the drinker must make a fortitude save (DC 19) or vomit, becoming nauseated for one minute and sickened for 24 hours. A character who fails this save does not gain the effects of this item, and the heart is consumed in the process. In addition, the heart must be fresh. Its magic normally lasts for 24 hours once removed from the sisiutl's body, but it can be preserved up to one week by preserving the heart, through magic such as a gentle repose spell, or through mundane means such as packing the heart in snow.

    A character who successfully drinks the lifeblood feels a soft, reassuring warmth deep within their body until the effect is triggered. The effect is permanent until triggered and consumed, and cannot be dispelled. The effect is triggered if the user dies for any reason, reaching -10 HP, or being killed by some other effect, even if the effect would normally leave no remains. While they will still die normally, their soul does not leave their body to go to the spirit world. On the round after their death, at the start of their former initiative, the body is magically restored, the heart's effects restoring any hit point damage, ability damage, ability drain, negative levels, lost limbs, diseases, or conditions, even creating a new body entirely if necessary. On the following round, the soul is reconnected to the body, and it returns to life, able to act immediately, though the user may return to find their new body in the same situation that killed them in the first place. There is no level loss, as with some other methods of resurrection.

    Construction Requirements:
    The Heart of the Sisiutl cannot be crafted or created by any means, it can only be harvested directly from the body of a Sisiutl. Each Sisiutl has two such hearts.


    Canoe:
    I like that it only works on saltwater, it does seem flavorful. And honestly, most canoes are only really designed for one or the other.
    I was going to make this one too, but I can't actually seem to find any stats for ocean canoes, and the handle canoe skill from voyageur has no mention of being able to use canoes on the ocean. Wouldn't some of the larger canoes, such as those used by the Haida, be treated more like ships than what we're thinking of?
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    Default Re: Sisiutl [two-headed sea serpent from the Pacific Northwest][P.E.A.C.H.]

    FYI, the handle canoe skill is 3rd party material. I am not a fan of skill proliferation; it should be default Survival skill as I mentioned earlier. The following information is from Ultimate Combat Vehicles:

    http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/u..._water-current

    Water Current: Vehicles that only rely on currents of water for their propulsion are somewhat limited. These vehicles can only move in the direction and at the speed of a current unless they also employ some other means of propulsion or manipulation, and thus often have an additional form of propulsion, such as muscle in the case of a canoe, and wind in the case of a galley. A current-driven ship such as a river barge with a crew of two or more creatures requires either a Profession (sailor) or Knowledge (nature) check for the driving check, as ships require precision, discipline, and knowledge of the natural world. Smaller water-current vehicles, like canoes, use the Survival skill as the drive skill, as reading the terrain is a very important aspect of maintaining control over those types of vehicles.

    If it moves with the current, a water-current vehicle's maximum speed depends on the speed of the current (often as high as 120 feet). The acceleration of a water-current vehicle is 30 feet.[/quote]

    I think the sealskin canoe needs editing. How much is the bonus?

    • A sealskin canoe that uses the bones of a sisiutl as its ribs grants a +4 competence bonus on all Survival checks made on salt-water; the canoe performs normally on freshwater bodies. The canoe must be ritually painted with a pint of seal's blood every seven days; if it is not, the competence bonus decreases to +2 until you next manage to supply it with blood.
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    Default Re: Sisiutl [two-headed sea serpent from the Pacific Northwest][P.E.A.C.H.]

    Handle canoe is a serious issue that will need clarification in the future, so I started a discussion on it in the main thread. If you'd like to weigh in, check it out! Some options being considered include just making it another use of survival as mentioned, making it a feat in the same vein as track, allowing another use of an existing skill, and rolling it into swim. Also, considering making some sort of mechanic to determine how much faster than the current you can go with a paddled personal watercraft.
    Personally, I have wanted to see handle canoe go away for a while, if only out of possible concerns regarding copyright and permissions.

    The canoe wouldn't grant a bonus to all survival checks, it wouldn't help you provide food or shelter while on the water.
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    Default Re: Sisiutl [two-headed sea serpent from the Pacific Northwest][P.E.A.C.H.]

    OK, I've added the bit about the sealskin canoe. Until we figure out which skill we want canoe-maneuvering to key off, I'm just gonna say it's Survival-based. I also removed the reference to the Handle Canoe skill under the "Capsize" ability, and added a link to Water Currents.

    I also added the the Heart of the Sisiutl to the treasure-list. Thanks for writing that up, Admiral Squish; it looks awesome! Now all we need to do is figure out the price.

    I've just boosted its ability scores to Int 15, Wis 18, and Cha 18, but I'm not sure what this will do to its skill points, or the DC of its Death-Gaze attack. Guess I should add some languages, too, now that it's smart enough to talk: I'm thinking Coast Salish, Mandarin, and Chinook Jargon.

    Actually, now that it's even smarter than the average human, I think I might need to go into more detail about their society. How do they relate to one another, and to the humans who sail their waters? What is their reaction to Chinese colonization of the west coast? Do evil sisiutls ever set themselves up as living god-kings to remote villages and demand protection-money from the terrified populace? Or are they generally good and wise chieftains of the sea? For that matter, I never even talk about how they commonly use their polymorph ability; guess I need to look that up, too.

    Edit: I just added a cost for the herbal dyes used to turn the blood into war paint: "These dyes cost 900 gp (black and white paints) or 450 gp (all other paints). The cost of the dyes replaces the normal item-creation costs, though the creator must still meet the normal crafting requirements for each separate color of war paint." Essentially, players get 4d6-4 doses of war paint for half-price, rather than getting them all for free. I thought this was reasonable, considering each dead sisiutl is practically a walking (swimming?) armory.

    Hmm, might be a good idea to calculate the total value of the treasure we've got so far. Let's see... Tribal War Paint averages about 1125 gp each, once you account for all eight colors, and there's 4d6-4 of 'em per sisiutl; Band of the Stalwart Warrior is 14,000 gp; a folding boat is about 7,200 gp (not sure how much a +4 enhancement bonus is worth); and we've got no idea what the heart is worth... which comes to... a really broad range of numbers.

    Edit 2: I just changed its alignment from True Neutral to Lawful Neutral. I figured that as kings of the seas and symbols of chieftainship (not to mention being one of the most powerful monsters in the neighborhood), they'd probably have a strong "do-it-my-way-or-else" attitude, which would cause the to lean towards law.
    Last edited by SuperDave; 2014-07-18 at 03:07 PM.
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    Default Re: Sisiutl [two-headed sea serpent from the Pacific Northwest][P.E.A.C.H.]

    The gaze's save should be 23.

    Languages
    We can always change the languages later to match up with the ones for the northwest native culture.

    Society
    I don't think they should have much in the way of society, considering the lack of hands, and we wanted to stay away from the whole underwater society thing. I think there should be some stuff about how they interact with other sisiutl and with their second head, but they wouldn't really have a full-on civilization.

    Warpaint
    I don't know about the new pricing. As it stands, they wouldn't actually be saving any VP. They still need the item creation feat, and I assume they still spend a similar amount of time. They would save the XP, granted, but that's not all that much, particularly at this high of a CR.

    Dragon?
    This ties to your commentary on the call to brew thread. If we're going to be turning large serpents into dragons, would these guys be candidates for this conversion? They were a pretty big deal in the mythology, which would fit with a high-CR dragon. Granted, having two/three heads would be weird as heck for a dragon.
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    Default Re: Sisiutl [two-headed sea serpent from the Pacific Northwest][P.E.A.C.H.]

    Quote Originally Posted by Admiral Squish View Post
    The gaze's save should be 23.
    Thanks for the hint. Fixed!

    Languages
    Yeah, I'll do the languages later. They're just placeholders for now.

    Society
    Good point about how their two heads interact with each other; I'll be sure to mention that. I feel like they'd have some kind of society, though. At the very least, they would rule over lesser sea creatures as god-kings, and collect tolls from passing war-canoes in exchange for their blessing.

    Warpaint
    So are you saying I should just make the warpaint free, and remove the Craft Wondrous Item requirement?

    Dragon?
    These guys would definitely be appropriate as dragons, but I'd need to basically reconstruct them from the ground up. I'd like to finish this version first, then try my hand at a draconic version.

    I've done a little more digging into the legends about sisiutl (there's a fair bit of lore, but surprisingly I've been unable to find any narrative stories about them, or featuring them), and I think that there are a few more SLAs that might be appropriate to these guys. Legends say they could shrink down to the size of an inchworm, or grow large enough to block off the entrance to an entire bay. Some say they could fly, and that they were associated with storms. I found a few storm-related spells in the SRD, but they're all fairly low-level, and might not be appropriate for a CR 14 monster to cast. Here are all the spells I've found so far that are potentially appropriate (though maybe the sisiutls shouldn't get all of them at once):

    Spell-Like Abilities (Sp)


    I briefly toyed with the idea of giving them the Sea Strider special ability of the Sea Dragon, Imperial, but I decided that the sea is really just one big body of water, they've already got the Elusive ability, and I can't imagine these guys swimming up a river.

    I found a neat little one page pseudo-poem about the sisiutl in The Fisher Queen: A Deckhand's Tales of the BC Coast, and it goes a little somethin' like this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia Taylor
    From the depths of the sea between the mountains, from the doorways of the Supernaturals he fiercely guards, the great serpent comes.
    Wings of the Thunderbird, twin heads of Wolf, silver sides of Salmon, forked tongue of Snake, fierce heart of Dragon, earth wisdom of Bear. Traveling in seas and rain and blood and tears, he transforms himself, for he is the Shape Shifter, the Soul Searcher, the Truth Seeker.
    He comes to judge all Humankind. He comes to judge your courage, your heart, your soul, your spirit. He finds you in your deepest, darkest fear. He comes to you in your life-changing times.
    The myths keep mentioning that these guys are the mortal enemies of Thunderbirds. Maybe sisiutls should all get "favored enemy (thunderbirds)" as a special ability or something? Problem is, I feel like it doesn't make sense for them to be mortal enemies if sisiutls are sentient and thunderbirds have animal intelligence (sisiutls would consider thunderbirds pests or predators, but not rivals). But this rivalry might work if we pit them against Paizo's version of the Thunderbird. Maybe there are two types of thunderbirds, the unintelligent spiritbeast and the intelligent magical beast?

    Several sources also said that the sisiutl's two outer heads are wolf-heads in profile, while the central head is that of the bear. I might try to reflect this in the draconic build, but I feel like that's more of an aberration or a chimera than a t
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    Default Re: Sisiutl [two-headed sea serpent from the Pacific Northwest][P.E.A.C.H.]

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperDave View Post
    Society
    Good point about how their two heads interact with each other; I'll be sure to mention that. I feel like they'd have some kind of society, though. At the very least, they would rule over lesser sea creatures as god-kings, and collect tolls from passing war-canoes in exchange for their blessing.
    In that case, you should perhaps pick spell-like abilities that reflect this. More on this below.

    Warpaint
    So are you saying I should just make the warpaint free, and remove the Craft Wondrous Item requirement?
    I think that would be a bad idea. Magic items should always require a feat to make. Allowing for magical components and thus a reduced price is fine.
    Dragon?
    These guys would definitely be appropriate as dragons, but I'd need to basically reconstruct them from the ground up. I'd like to finish this version first, then try my hand at a draconic version.
    I don't really see these as "True" Dragons. However, you might want to include stat blocks for the various sizes that they can take (see below).
    I've done a little more digging into the legends about sisiutl (there's a fair bit of lore, but surprisingly I've been unable to find any narrative stories about them, or featuring them), and I think that there are a few more SLAs that might be appropriate to these guys. Legends say they could shrink down to the size of an inchworm, or grow large enough to block off the entrance to an entire bay. Some say they could fly, and that they were associated with storms. I found a few storm-related spells in the SRD, but they're all fairly low-level, and might not be appropriate for a CR 14 monster to cast. Here are all the spells I've found so far that are potentially appropriate (though maybe the sisiutls shouldn't get all of them at once)
    Spell-like abilities should support their motives and ecology.
    Discern Lies requires Concentration for example and it also requires the target to be deliberately lying not just mistaken. "The spell does not reveal the truth, uncover unintentional inaccuracies, or necessarily reveal evasions." IMNSHO, this is fairly useless as a at will ability. I think there are other spells that are more fitting with the text. Calm Animals (aquatic animals only) or Command (aquatic animals only) or 3/day lesser geas that only works with aquatic intelligent magical beasts (Int 3 or more) are more befitting its ecology. Animal Trance is another appropriate spell (Aquatic creatures only). I recommend you look up spells here http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spellIndex.html rather than use the SRD.

    Also, I am not a fan of giving it the following spells: polymorph (self only), enlarge person and minimize person. BTW where is the spell minimize person from? Do you mean reduce person?

    Its ability to change size should not be spell-like. It should be an extraordinary ability. See below for suggestion.

    Furthermore, it should have control water as a spell-like ability three times a day.

    I am not sure why it has polymorph spell (self only) since all it really does is change size. I recommend you add that as an extraordinary special ability. See below.

    Change Size (Ex): As a standard action, a sisiutl can shrink down to as small as Fine size or grow as big as Colossal. It can retain its new size for as long as it chooses. Returning to normal size is a free action. It takes all the standard bonuses and penalties for its new size. See here: http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/m...2-size-changes
    The myths keep mentioning that these guys are the mortal enemies of Thunderbirds. Maybe sisiutls should all get "favored enemy (thunderbirds)" as a special ability or something? Problem is, I feel like it doesn't make sense for them to be mortal enemies if sisiutls are sentient and thunderbirds have animal intelligence (sisiutls would consider thunderbirds pests or predators, but not rivals). But this rivalry might work if we pit them against Paizo's version of the Thunderbird. Maybe there are two types of thunderbirds, the unintelligent spiritbeast and the intelligent magical beast?
    Do the myths state WHY these are mortal enemies?
    Several sources also said that the sisiutl's two outer heads are wolf-heads in profile, while the central head is that of the bear. I might try to reflect this in the draconic build, but I feel like that's more of an aberration or a chimera
    I recommend you just make these variant types. If the different heads give it slightly different abilities, so much the better. A wolf-headed sisiutl might have the Scent special ability for example. A dragon-headed sisiutl might have a breath weapon.

    Debby
    Last edited by Debihuman; 2014-07-23 at 01:35 AM.
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    Default Re: Sisiutl [two-headed sea serpent from the Pacific Northwest][P.E.A.C.H.]

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    Magic items should always require a feat to make. Allowing for magical components and thus a reduced price is fine.
    So you're saying that I should just leave the war paint as free, and not require it to be mixed with expensive herbal dyes? Or that the dyes should be required, but can be mundane in nature?

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    I don't really see these as "True" Dragons. However, you might want to include stat blocks for the various sizes that they can take (see below).
    Good idea! But wouldn't changing its size mess with its CR? Would players get more XP if they kill it as a Gargantuan creature than if they kill it when it's just Small?

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    Spell-like abilities should support their motives and ecology. [...] I recommend you look up spells here http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spellIndex.html rather than use the SRD.
    That looks like a very useful resource, and much easier to browse than the SRD. Thanks for telling me about it! I think your suggestions for SLAare better than my own ideas, so I'll update the list shortly. I was just throwing stuff out there, not finalizing any kind of spell-list. You were right, though: I did mean to say reduce person; that was a typo. Polymorph (self only) was only on the lists because the resources I've found keep saying that the sisiutl was a shapeshifter, and could change itself into any form it desired (usually human). The fact that I can't find a single legend about the sisiutl makes this difficult to justify, and frankly it does seem a little out-of-place for a sea serpent. Especially if it can already change its size to suit whatever task it's undertaking, as you suggested (which is an awesome write-up, by the way, and I'm totally adding it to that stat-block).

    Edit: the reasoning behind giving it discern lies and see alignment was that the sisiutl is supposed to judge human beings' souls. Also, because sisiutls are associated with the office of chiefdom, which requires excellent judgement, and occasionally issuing just verdicts in difficult cases. So I thought these might come in handy.

    Edit 2: should command and animal trance affect A) all aquatic creatures of the "animal" type, B) all aquatic animals and magical beasts, or C) all living non-sentient aquatic creatures, regardless of type?

    Edit 3: I've encountered several sources which say that the sisitul's gaze actually turned people to stone (i.e., they didn't just keel over dead when it looked at them). This could be approximated with a 1/day flesh to stone SLA, but I wonder if that's just too harsh: most fights with sisiutl's are going to take place on water, which means that the body of any character hit by this ability while swimming would instantly sink to the bottom of the ocean and be lost forever, never to be retrieved. Normally that's not a problem, and could potentially lead to an underwater adventure with the merfolk who found your friend's body, but there are no intelligent marine races in Crossroads, so that's not really workable here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    Do the myths state WHY [Thunderbirds and Sisiutls] are mortal enemies?
    Unfortunately, they never do. I guess it's supposed to be some kind of inherent sea/sky rivalry thing? I found one old legend called Thunderbird and Whale which says that Thunderbird saw that Whale was killing all the humans, so he swooped down on Whale, picked him out of the sea, and after fighting with him in midair for a while, dropped him onto the land (or maybe the sea?) to kill him with the impact*. Some geologists suspect that this legend refers to a massive earthquake (and the accompanying tsunami) which happened in the Pacific Northwest in 1700, and was strong enough to be felt as far away as Japan.

    *this legend would make one helluva final boss-fight, by the way .

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    I recommend you just make these variant types. If the different heads give it slightly different abilities, so much the better. A wolf-headed sisiutl might have the Scent special ability for example. A dragon-headed sisiutl might have a breath weapon.
    Good ideas all. I think I'd like to finalize this one first, though. Maybe there are several are sub-species of sisiutl, just like dragons, with different powers based on the type of head they've got? For example, instead of writing up completely different stats for each species, we could just say they get a different breath-weapon or other special feature? That'd cut way down on the number of complete stat-blocks I'd have to draw up.

    Anyway, these are a bunch of really good changes, and you can expect to see them reflected in the statblock shortly. Though I'll probably have to recalculate the CR after adding so many new SLAs...
    Last edited by SuperDave; 2014-07-24 at 04:07 PM.
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    Default Re: Sisiutl [two-headed sea serpent from the Pacific Northwest][P.E.A.C.H.]

    Society
    I don't know, them being a symbol of chiefdom doesn't necessarily mean they have any actual leadership. I mean, they could just be attributed to have it because they're particularly powerful. Much like many dragons, who, while powerful symbols, are not actually leadership in most situations. Or like how lions were regarded in the real world.

    Warpaint
    I think the point was that they should need the feat, but the blood shouldn't need expensive material components to turn into useful stuff. Requiring such steep costs defeats the purpose of giving it as treasure.

    Dragon
    To clarify, Debi, in the crossroads setting one idea that's being bandied about is to have new world dragons be serpentine in form, representing horned serpents such as the xiuhcoatl, uktena, and other similar serpentine monsters.

    Let's break down the pros and cons.

    Dragon
    For one, from what I see, they're viewed as the 'big dogs' of the region. They're reptilian serpent creatures, which fits the new world image of dragons. They have mystical powers, and are regarded as extremely wise and powerful. While they don't seem to have a breath weapon, we could easily add one, or make the gaze fill its place somehow. Many dragons have a human shape ability of some sort, too, so that would fit.

    Magical Beast
    Having two heads does make them somewhat atypical for dragons or serpents for that matter. If we're going to give them the size change thing, then that would be way too much variance in each age category for a proper dragon. And variants by head type would also make exponentially more work for a proper dragon with age categories.

    SLAs
    I could see discern alignment, but subjective alignment means see alignment would do no good. If it's gonna get a change size ability, then enlarge person/diminish person are unnecessary, and the sisiutl wouldn't be a valid target for the spells anyways.

    Thunderbird
    I gotta say, apart from sentience, my Thunderbird does pretty much everything that one does, plus extra.
    I'm not sure about there being two types of thunderbird.

    Gaze
    Petrification is a perfectly valid option. It'd be just about the same as a death effect in combat, so you wouldn't really be trading up or down if you swapped 'em. If you want to make it scale, you could have it deal dex damage (or possibly drain) and say that they get partially paralyzed with each bit of dex damage, and if a target reaches 0, they become fully petrified.
    Last edited by Admiral Squish; 2014-07-25 at 12:30 AM.
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    Default Re: Sisiutl [two-headed sea serpent from the Pacific Northwest][P.E.A.C.H.]

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperDave View Post
    So you're saying that I should just leave the war paint as free, and not require it to be mixed with expensive herbal dyes? Or that the dyes should be required, but can be mundane in nature?
    It's not clear that you meant the tribal war paint to be magical. See here: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/...anti-war-paint. Wouldn't it just be easier to say that using sisiutl blood as a component halves the cost of making tribal war paint?

    Good idea! But wouldn't changing its size mess with its CR? Would players get more XP if they kill it as a Gargantuan creature than if they kill it when it's just Small?
    Nope. It still has the same number of hit points regardless of size.

    That looks like a very useful resource, and much easier to browse than the SRD. Thanks for telling me about it!
    You are welcome.

    I think your suggestions for SLAare better than my own ideas, so I'll update the list shortly. I was just throwing stuff out there, not finalizing any kind of spell-list. You were right, though: I did mean to say reduce person; that was a typo. Polymorph (self only) was only on the lists because the resources I've found keep saying that the sisiutl was a shapeshifter, and could change itself into any form it desired (usually human). The fact that I can't find a single legend about the sisiutl makes this difficult to justify, and frankly it does seem a little out-of-place for a sea serpent. Especially if it can already change its size to suit whatever task it's undertaking, as you suggested (which is an awesome write-up, by the way, and I'm totally adding it to that stat-block).
    Glad to help. I think I just modified the change size ability of some other critter (damned if I can remember which one it was).

    Edit: the reasoning behind giving it discern lies and see alignment was that the sisiutl is supposed to judge human beings' souls. Also, because sisiutls are associated with the office of chiefdom, which requires excellent judgement, and occasionally issuing just verdicts in difficult cases. So I thought these might come in handy.
    That's all well and good but then you need to have the fluff in there that supports this. The chief thing it is going to rule is over other aquatic creatures. Maybe just fixing the text some would suffice.
    Edit 2: should command and animal trance affect A) all aquatic creatures of the "animal" type, B) all aquatic animals and magical beasts, or C) all living non-sentient aquatic creatures, regardless of type?
    Command spell in the PRD is already fairly limited so it should affect all aquatic creatures. Animal trance affects only animals already so it should affect only aquatic animals.

    Edit 3: I've encountered several sources which say that the sisitul's gaze actually turned people to stone (i.e., they didn't just keel over dead when it looked at them). This could be approximated with a 1/day flesh to stone SLA, but I wonder if that's just too harsh: most fights with sisiutl's are going to take place on water, which means that the body of any character hit by this ability while swimming would instantly sink to the bottom of the ocean and be lost forever, never to be retrieved. Normally that's not a problem, and could potentially lead to an underwater adventure with the merfolk who found your friend's body, but there are no intelligent marine races in Crossroads, so that's not really workable here.
    Actually my Rhine maidens are intelligent. :-) Clearly they have a vendetta against the French pirates who steal their Reingold. Instead of having them turn to stone right away, there could be this:

    You could also have it give a curse of stone (see petrified maiden) or stone curse (see stygira) so that turning to stone would be gradual rather than sudden.


    Unfortunately, they never do. I guess it's supposed to be some kind of inherent sea/sky rivalry thing? I found one old legend called Thunderbird and Whale which says that Thunderbird saw that Whale was killing all the humans, so he swooped down on Whale, picked him out of the sea, and after fighting with him in midair for a while, dropped him onto the land (or maybe the sea?) to kill him with the impact*. Some geologists suspect that this legend refers to a massive earthquake (and the accompanying tsunami) which happened in the Pacific Northwest in 1700, and was strong enough to be felt as far away as Japan.
    Perhaps then we just need a little back story to explain the animosity between the two. It could be that both see themselves as the one controlling water and feels the other encroaches on that territory. The thunderbird (see here: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/mon...ts/thunderbird has mastery over storms) while the sisiult has command of rivers and seas.

    *this legend would make one helluva final boss-fight, by the way .
    Oh yeah! Especially if the PCs are forced to take sides.


    Good ideas all. I think I'd like to finalize this one first, though. Maybe there are several are sub-species of sisiutl, just like dragons, with different powers based on the type of head they've got? For example, instead of writing up completely different stats for each species, we could just say they get a different breath-weapon or other special feature? That'd cut way down on the number of complete stat-blocks I'd have to draw up.
    Sounds good. I use variant creatures in some of my write ups (Caecilia for example though I did really steal a lot of ideas from Disney's Little Mermaid).

    Anyway, these are a bunch of really good changes, and you can expect to see them reflected in the statblock shortly. Though I'll probably have to recalculate the CR after adding so many new SLAs...
    Looking forward to it!

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    Default Re: Sisiutl [two-headed sea serpent from the Pacific Northwest][P.E.A.C.H.]

    Society
    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    The chief thing [is that] it is going to rule is over other aquatic creatures. Maybe just fixing the text some would suffice.
    I guess that sisiutls don't seem like social creatures, now that I think about it. I can't imagine them forming pods or schools. I guess I'll talk more about their life-cycles (females guard the eggs until they hatch, maybe eat a few; little sisiutls spread out, claim territory, and get bigger, gradually learning how to control their size at-will) and how as adults they set themselves up as... if not kings, then at least as very, very touchy game-wardens.

    Warpaint
    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    Wouldn't it just be easier to say that using sisiutl blood as a component halves the cost of making tribal war paint?
    Yeah, I think that's simplest and best. I'll go with that.

    I definitely meant for the warpaint to be magical right from the get-go. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

    Dragon
    I've actually decided that making the sisiutl into a dragon would feel like trying to cram too much awesome into a single creature. For now I'm just gonna complete the sisiutl as a magical beast. I might revisit it later, perhaps after getting some experience designing limbless New World dragons with my take on the Uktena. Maybe the draconic sisiutl will be a completely different species, known by a different name and everything.

    SLAs
    I realize that discern alignment is less useful in C:tNW than in campaigns with the standard alignment system, but I figure DMs can just ignore it in that case. Besides, I feel that it makes the beast more fluffalicious: IT CAN SEE INTO YOUR SOUL, MAN!

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    Command spell in the PRD is already fairly limited so it should affect all aquatic creatures. Animal trance affects only animals already so it should affect only aquatic animals.
    Good point. I'll fix that too.

    Thunderbirds
    Quote Originally Posted by Admiral Squish View Post
    I gotta say, apart from sentience, my Thunderbird does pretty much everything that one does, plus extra.
    ...except for being sentient. The Paizo thunderbird could become a villain or an ally in its own right, and even send the PCs on quests. As awesome as yours is, bro, smart monsters are always scarier than ones with animal intelligence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Admiral Squish View Post
    I'm not sure about there being two types of thunderbird.
    Yeah, me neither; seems kind of excessive for the setting. I guess DMs can just use add the "awakened animal" template to your thunderbird, if they really want to have a sentient thunderbird in their game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    Perhaps then we just need a little back story to explain the animosity between the two. It could be that both see themselves as the one controlling water and feels the other encroaches on that territory. The thunderbird (see here: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/mon...ts/thunderbird has mastery over storms) while the sisiult has command of rivers and seas.
    Maybe sisiutls envy thunderbirds for their ability to fly, because it's the one thing they can't do? They like to think of themselves as masters of all they survey, but thunderbirds can always tresspass above their demesnes, flying maddeningly out of reach. A thunderbird is also one of the few things powerful enough to slay a juvenile or adult sisitul, so sisiutls slay their young and destroy their nests whenever they can; likewise, thunderbirds consider sisiutl roe and hatchlings to be delicacies, and eat huge amounts of them whenever they get the chance.

    Sisiutls believe that Thunderbirds encroach upon their territory, by stirring the skies into storms, without a care for the sisiutls' kingdoms. It enrages them that these mere animals are given dominion over the skies and winds, to freely muddy their waters and bring chaos to their carefully-ordered worlds.

    Gaze
    OK, here's the Petrified Maiden's curse of stone:
    Curse of Stone (Su)

    Curse–touch; save Fort DC 17; onset 1 minute; frequency 1/day; effect 1d6 Dex.

    A creature afflicted by the curse of stone slowly turns to stone, its skin turning an ashen gray and hardening into a stony texture. For every 3 points of Dexterity damage taken, the victim gains a +1 natural armor bonus. The curse of stone can only be cured by removing the curse followed by a stone to flesh spell to undo the damage it has done. If the curse is not removed first, stone to flesh only restores 1d3 points of Dexterity, though these can be lost again as the curse continues to spread. The save DC is Charisma-based.
    ...and here's the Stygira's stone curse:
    Stone Curse (Su)

    Any creature struck by a stygira’s claws must make a DC 18 Will save or be affected by a curse that gradually drains it of color, stiffens its joints, and finally turns the victim to stone. This curse proves frighteningly unpredictable, forcing another save against its effects every 1d3 hours. Any creature that is drained to 0 Dexterity or fails three saves against the curse is permanently petrified.

    Even if a creature is petrified and then restored to flesh, it is still affected by the curse and is petrified again upon failing its next save against the curse. A stone curse can only be removed in one of two ways: by casting remove curse or by spending a full hour in unobstructed natural sunlight. Magical radiance like daylight does not affect a stone curse, and remove curse does not return a petrified creature to flesh. The save DC is Constitution-based.

    Stone curse: Claw—curse; save Will DC 18; frequency 1/1d3 hours; effect 1d6 Dex damage, failing 3 saves results in petrification; cure casting remove curse or spending 1 hour in natural sunlight
    I think I'm leaning more towards the first one, myself, just 'cause it seems like a simpler mechanic. But they're both touch attacks, not gazes, so how do we make them deliverable at a distance? Is it as simple as adding a range and limiting the number of times it can be used each day?

    Edit: I just realized that having the Change Size ability would mean that as soon as it's born, every sisiutl would be able to attain Colossal size instantly. This really messes with their ecology and predation, so I added the following caveat: "Until it reaches adulthood (at ?? years or ?? HD, whichever it attains first), a sisiutl can only use its Change Size ability to become as large as the largest size-category it has attained."
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    Default Re: Sisiutl [two-headed sea serpent from the Pacific Northwest][P.E.A.C.H.]

    Simply change it from a touch attack to a gaze attack though you might want to limit how often the sisiutl can make curse of stone gaze attack.

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    Default Re: Sisiutl [two-headed sea serpent from the Pacific Northwest][P.E.A.C.H.]

    OK, I added the petrified maiden's curse of stone, and gave it a range of 60 feet (which is what the range of burning gaze would be for a CL 14 caster). Should I boost the DC for the Fort save to resist it, or is 17 okay?

    I bumped up the CR to 16 to account for the additional SLAs and the Change Size ability, and increased the XP accordingly. I also recalculated its skills and its fluency with different languages.

    As for the price of the heart of the sisiutl, I went with 26,000gp, since that's roughly the cost of a true resurrection spell from a caster who's just powerful enough to cast it (CL 9), plus the cost of the material component: a diamond worth 25,000 gp.

    If the math checks out, I'd say this bad boy is done!
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    Default Re: Sisiutl [two-headed sea serpent from the Pacific Northwest][P.E.A.C.H.]

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperDave View Post
    OK, I added the petrified maiden's curse of stone, and gave it a range of 60 feet (which is what the range of burning gaze would be for a CL 14 caster). Should I boost the DC for the Fort save to resist it, or is 17 okay?
    Gaze is as supernatural ability so it's Save is 10 + 1/2 HD + Charisma modifier (should be 22) 10 +8 +4= 22

    I bumped up the CR to 16 to account for the additional SLAs and the Change Size ability, and increased the XP accordingly. I also recalculated its skills and its fluency with different languages.
    It should be good though spell-like ability still has polymorph stricken out and that should just be removed now.

    As for the price of the heart of the sisiutl, I went with 26,000 gp, since that's roughly the cost of a true resurrection spell from a caster who's just powerful enough to cast it (CL 9), plus the cost of the material component: a diamond worth 25,000 gp.

    If the math checks out, I'd say this bad boy is done!
    Spell level is 9, caster level is 17 for the hireling to cast it. Creatures don't have to adhere to caster levels for supernatural abilities.

    Price for hireling is spell level x CL x 10= 9x17x10= 1,530 gp + 25,000 for the diamond = 26,530 gp. Close enough.

    It's gaze is worded strangely for a gaze attack. Also you forgot to change the DC. It should be DC 22.

    Penultimate thing: Lose Constant spells. That's not standard and the spells don't really fit.

    Last of all, Change Size isn't complete yet. I recommend you lose the part about adulthood since that's just being nit picky.

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    Last edited by Debihuman; 2014-08-02 at 08:20 AM.
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    Default Re: Sisiutl [two-headed sea serpent from the Pacific Northwest][P.E.A.C.H.]

    How about the Sisiutl can only grow to it's largest size, and they never stop growing? That way it is more gradual.

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    Default Re: Sisiutl [two-headed sea serpent from the Pacific Northwest][P.E.A.C.H.]

    Changing size has nothing to do with its age.
    P.E.A.C.H. Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly. Being nicer and kinder doesn't hurt either. Note I generally only critique 3.5 and Pathfinder material.
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    Default Re: Sisiutl [two-headed sea serpent from the Pacific Northwest][P.E.A.C.H.]

    I was thinking in terms f the maximum size they could reach is determined by age. Not the actual mechanics of the ability.

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    Default Re: Sisiutl [two-headed sea serpent from the Pacific Northwest][P.E.A.C.H.]

    I could see their actual size being the maximum for the change shape ability in the dragon version, but for this one I think it would be just fine to make it free-form. You could safely put the detail about them not being able to change size until they reach adulthood in the ecology bits.

    Personally, I was thinking less that the gaze inflicted a curse, and more that the gaze just dealt instant dex damage, with a little note that says if you reach 0 dex you turn to stone, but it's your monster, bro.
    Example:
    Stony Gaze: Target takes 1d6 dexterity (damage or drain?) as they slowly petrify, range 30, fortitude DC 23 negates. If target reaches 0 dex, they are petrified. Stone to Flesh removes all dexterity damage from this source.

    As to the heart... Eh, since it's contingent and automatic, I would just say round it up to 30,000.
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    Default Re: Sisiutl [two-headed sea serpent from the Pacific Northwest][P.E.A.C.H.]

    Just to clarify: HD remains constant regardless of size correct? The only thing that changes is bonuses/penalties to defense and grapple attacks?

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    Default Re: Sisiutl [two-headed sea serpent from the Pacific Northwest][P.E.A.C.H.]

    See Tables on size changes: http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/m...vancement.html Str, Dex, Con, Natural Armor bonus, CMB/CMD, Fly skill and Stealth skill change with size changes.

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    Last edited by Debihuman; 2014-08-03 at 06:12 PM.
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    Default Re: Sisiutl [two-headed sea serpent from the Pacific Northwest][P.E.A.C.H.]

    OK, I updated the DC of its gaze attack, and took Squish's suggestion to simplify the mechanics by making it deal 1d6 to the subject's Dex. Should it be ability damage, or ability drain? And should each head be able to use stony gaze every round?

    Updated the price of Heart of the Sisiutl to 30,000 gp.

    I just realized that I've been forgetting to include its Caster Level and Concentration bonus in the statblock. I set them as being equal to its total HD (18) for the sake of convenience, and moved the SLAs to where they're supposed to be, under Special Attacks.

    I added the bit about "Change Size" not being available until adulthood to its ecology section. I decided that for them, adulthood means 14 HD or more, and that it takes about 20 years to reach that size.

    I think that's all. Have I forgotten anything?
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    Default Re: Sisiutl [two-headed sea serpent from the Pacific Northwest][P.E.A.C.H.]

    The difference between damage and drain only comes in how it's treated. Ability damage heals at a rate of 1 point/rest naturally. Drain does not heal naturally, and requires magic to remove. Thematically, I would say drain would be better, and the high CR means victims would probably have access to something that can remove drain. Also, you don't normally 'use' a gaze attack as in uses/day, it's a passive effect that affects everyone in range each turn, though they can use it actively as an attack action to force more saves. Drop the once/round bit.

    and with that, I think you're all set!
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