What made Tsukiko so misanthropic?

[CaDzilla]

She seems to have based her philosophy on why the undead are good on the fact that the living are a-holes. What event happened to make her fetishize unlife?

[zimmerwald1915]

She seems to have based her philosophy on why the undead are good on the fact that the living are a-holes. What event happened to make her fetishize unlife?

We don't know. The Giant probably never considered it important enough to specify.

[Keltest]

We don't know. The Giant probably never considered it important enough to specify.

Certain tidbits of information, like her getting kicked out of a lot of wizarding schools, suggest to me that it was in some way her own fault for how people treated her. Maybe she was always ah... forward with herself to people, and decided that since society didn't adapt to her, she would leave it behind. Plus, she comes off as a bit of a nut, even if she is capable of functioning through it.

[Angelalex242]

I think she's simply meant to be a parody of all the twitards in the world who think 'playing' with the undead is just wonderful.

[Nilehus]

I think she's simply meant to be a parody of all the twitards in the world who think 'playing' with the undead is just wonderful.

I agree. I'd add she's a parody of that one kind of Mary Sue that is always right, no matter what, no matter how much prior evidence there is against her.

In her own campaign, it would've ended up being an undead paradise, where she was the beloved queen. In (semi) reality... It didn't end so well for her playing with monsters with no free will that are literally fueled by Evil.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I'd imagine that she found the living to be fairly distasteful, so she turned to Undead for love. The parody answer works well too.

[Gift Jeraff]

Unlike the undead, the living don't have "controlled by an evil necromancer" or "born of dark energies" (not counting fiends) as an excuse for their behavior.

[ti'esar]

Much as with Nale's hatred of Malack, I've always been torn between Tsukiko having a semi-legitimate/serious reason for her hatred of the living and it just being something completely ridiculous. I think the bulk of the evidence points to the latter, though.

[Keltest]

Much as with Nale's hatred of Malack, I've always been torn between Tsukiko having a semi-legitimate/serious reason for her hatred of the living and it just being something completely ridiculous. I think the bulk of the evidence points to the latter, though.

Unlike Nale, who could have a very legitimate reason to dislike Malack (even if that reason is "he's dead and dangerous.") I don't think there is any way that Tsutsiko's hate could be portrayed as anything other than unreasonable, if for no other reason than its hypocrisy.

[Koo Rehtorb]

I always just assumed that she had a series of bad encounters with people that left her with a tragically warped world view. Betrayed by people she cared about. Cheated on, maybe. Stuff like that.

[Keltest]

I always just assumed that she had a series of bad encounters with people that left her with a tragically warped world view. Betrayed by people she cared about. Cheated on, maybe. Stuff like that.

That would explain a "people suck" mentality, but doesn't really provide the leap towards "Undead are the opposite of people, therefore they must be great!" that requires one to ignore reality to hold.

[Darth Paul]

Necrophilia is a real-life thing (blech, ick, yuk). She just took it one step farther for parody purposes. When even Xykon was squicked out by her ( "I'm not one of those disgusting biophiliacs") then clearly she was off the deep end, sanity-wise.

What pseudo-Freudian psychobabble reasons made her that way? We will never ever know. Clearly her definition of "logical thought" was not the same as the rest of the world's, although she had a certain specious "if A=B then Not-A = Not-B" chain of reasoning going on. This may well have something to do with why she was expelled from all those fine schools.

In the end, it's probably futile for us to try to understand how Tsukiko got the way she was. The best we can do is to say that her insanity was (hopefully) unique, and must have had some highly unique circumstances to bring it about.

[Finagle]

( "I'm not one of those disgusting biophiliacs")

That's the part I never got. Xykon shot her down right there. There was no possibility of Tsukiko becoming Xykon's girlfriend, ever. He said it right to her face! That sort of thing breaks believability for me.

Spoiler: Start of Darkness

Show

Even before he became a lich, Xykon expressed a lack of interest in sex. He was hornier when he was younger, but old age caught up to him. After becoming a lich...well lacking sex organs would make him really disinterested in the opposite sex.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

That's the part I never got. Xykon shot her down right there. There was no possibility of Tsukiko becoming Xykon's girlfriend, ever. He said it right to her face! That sort of thing breaks believability for me.

Spoiler: Start of Darkness

Show

Even before he became a lich, Xykon expressed a lack of interest in sex. He was hornier when he was younger, but old age caught up to him. After becoming a lich...well lacking sex organs would make him really disinterested in the opposite sex.

It doesn't seem terribly unbelievable to me that someone would obsess over someone else even if they know that person doesn't want to be with them.

[Storm_Of_Snow]

It doesn't seem terribly unbelievable to me that someone would obsess over someone else even if they know that person doesn't want to be with them.

Agreed, Tsukiko probably thought Xykon was hiding his true feeling for her, that he'd come around eventually, etc...

Hmm, I think I just squicked myself out.

As for the reason, it could be something serious (let's be honest, it's not like humanity can't do terrible things), something minor but potentially psychologically damaging (the family pet died and her parents buried/cremated it rather than pay for it to be raised), or even self-inflicted ("You dare to tell me I can't do/have something? I hate you and all living beings!).

Or she could just be a parody of Bella from Twilight.

[Angelalex242]

It is certainly not necessary for someone to reciprocate one's feelings for one to have fairly strong feelings for somebody.

Every time somebody gets arrested for stalking a Hollywood star is a case in point.

Thus, Xykon's feelings on the matter are pretty irrelevant, and if she could beat his saving throws, I don't doubt for a moment she'd cast control undead, or at least hold undead, to have her merry way with him. Let's not forget Tsukiko is still Evil with a capital E, and worthy of Book of Vile Darkness Vile Feats at that. (Lichloved is the thematic Vile Feat she really should have, as it's nearly the point of her character...along with the prerequisite, of course. Despite the name, it doesn't require sleeping with a Lich. Any undead will do, even Vampires, which means Bella and Buffy also qualify for that feat...) Things like consent aren't necessarily a high priority for her.

[Tiiba]

A weird chain of thoughts led me to this: if Tsukiko had to help create a lich, one step would be her doing something so squicky that the subject's skin would crawl off his back and out the door.

[137beth]

The tragedy of Tsukiko is that she kept the wights, who she claimed to love, enslaved from their creation until her death. She oppressed undead just as much as she oppressed Thahn via Dominate Person (more, actually, since she kept the wights enslaved for a lot longer).

[Reathin]

Personally, I think she might have started out with an unhealthy interest in the undead, people shunned her for it, and that lead her to reinforce her opinion that undead are her preference. She came up with "logic" to support her position (ie. the whole insane antithesis thing she had) and it was consistently kept stable by the fact that her creations did what she wanted them to, including act out the roles needed for emotional support (of a variety of types) she wasn't getting from the living.

Basically, my belief is that she was stuck in a self-perpetuating loop, but she was the one that was ultimately responsible for starting it.

[Yanisa]

The tragedy of Tsukiko is that she kept the wights, who she claimed to love, enslaved from their creation until her death. She oppressed undead just as much as she oppressed Thahn via Dominate Person (more, actually, since she kept the wights enslaved for a lot longer).

And the irony being that she seems to hate Humans, Azurites and/or the Law for oppressing her. (#446)

[evileeyore]

It doesn't seem terribly unbelievable to me that someone would obsess over someone else even if they know that person doesn't want to be with them.

You don't get out much do you?

The world is full of crazy people. Luckily for most of us, it's got a lot more not-quite-so-crazy people.

[snowblizz]

Personally, I think she might have started out with an unhealthy interest in the undead, people shunned her for it, and that lead her to reinforce her opinion that undead are her preference. She came up with "logic" to support her position (ie. the whole insane antithesis thing she had) and it was consistently kept stable by the fact that her creations did what she wanted them to, including act out the roles needed for emotional support (of a variety of types) she wasn't getting from the living.

Basically, my belief is that she was stuck in a self-perpetuating loop, but she was the one that was ultimately responsible for starting it.

This was also my reading of the situation. Too interested in Necromancy* to be accepted by society and it went downhill from there.

*I decided to go with the Necromancy thing first to preserve my sanity

[Bulldog Psion]

Personally, I think she might have started out with an unhealthy interest in the undead, people shunned her for it, and that lead her to reinforce her opinion that undead are her preference. She came up with "logic" to support her position (ie. the whole insane antithesis thing she had) and it was consistently kept stable by the fact that her creations did what she wanted them to, including act out the roles needed for emotional support (of a variety of types) she wasn't getting from the living.

Basically, my belief is that she was stuck in a self-perpetuating loop, but she was the one that was ultimately responsible for starting it.

Yes, that seems like the most logical explanation. As such, I'd say she's thoroughly demented, but not an illogical character. If undead really could be created, I'd bet there would be quite a few folks just like her. Unfortunately.

It gives her an added bit of verisimilitude that she's repulsive and dangerous, but also extremely tragic.

[CaDzilla]

And the irony being that she seems to hate Humans, Azurites and/or the Law for oppressing her. (#446)

Another bit of irony is that she has the same black/white outlook as the paladins on undead, only reversed

[martianmister]

I don't think there is any way that Tsutsiko's hate could be portrayed as anything other than unreasonable, if for no other reason than its hypocrisy.

Severe childhood traumas (like sexual abuse) can turn people to extreme types of Paraphilia.

[Keltest]

Severe childhood traumas (like sexual abuse) can turn people to extreme types of Paraphilia.

Im not contesting that its possible for one to be attracted to, well, anything. But if you examine her stance on people, its a shallow justification for her actions against the people of Azure city that wont hold up to even the slightest amount of logical examination. Heck, even the MITD called her on it.

I think this conversation sums it up best.

"Trust me, paladins aren't happy unless theyre forcing you to be just like them."

"Really? Because it seemed like he wanted me to decide for myself how to act."

"Right, exactly like he does! He's doing it already!"

[veti]

Courtesy of the Great Index, I'll just drop this in here. I think it's applicable.

I don't think Suki will ever have a canonical backstory. If you care, you'll have to make it up for yourself.

Personally, I don't much care. I presume she had some bad experiences as a teenager (who doesn't?), some rejection, either not enough or too much discipline (pick whichever one floats your own prejudices...) - and we got the character we saw. But exactly what happened? Unless you're looking for fanfic, there's no answer to that.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

You don't get out much do you?

The world is full of crazy people. Luckily for most of us, it's got a lot more not-quite-so-crazy people.

Umm, perhaps you misread my post. I said that it wasn't terribly unbelievable, i.e. fairly believable.

[evileeyore]

Umm, perhaps you misread my post. I said that it wasn't terribly unbelievable, i.e. fairly believable.

Man. I did that like three times yesterday.

My Mark I eyeballs need to get a tune up.

[Darth Paul]

Umm, perhaps you misread my post. I said that it wasn't terribly unbelievable, i.e. fairly believable.

Man. I did that like three times yesterday.

My Mark I eyeballs need to get a tune up.

Or else you meant to reply to the post just above Jazdan's, which was:

That's the part I never got. Xykon shot her down right there. There was no possibility of Tsukiko becoming Xykon's girlfriend, ever. He said it right to her face! That sort of thing breaks believability for me.

Has happened to me as well.