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  1. - Top - End - #271
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Working on my 2k vs Orks for tonight. Well, it could also work as a 2k general list, it's not overly tailoring.


    Spoiler: Army List
    Show
    HQ

    Nemesor Zahndrekh - 185

    Royal Court
    Lord - Warscythe, Sempiternal Weave, Resurrection Orb - 90
    Cryptek - Harbinger of Despair, Nightmare Shroud - 40
    Cryptek - Harbinger of the Storm, Lightning Shield - 35
    Cryptek - Harbinger of Destruction - 35

    Destroyer Lord - Warscythe, Sempiternal Weave, Mindshackle scarabs, Resurrection Orb - 190

    Elites

    5x Deathmarks in Night Scythe (+ Despairtek) - 195

    Troops

    9x Gauss Immortals in Night Scythe (+ Stormtek) - 270
    9x Tesla Immortals (+ Lord) - 170
    8x Necron Warriors in Ghost Ark (+ Destructek and Zahndrekh) - 232
    5x Warriors

    Fast Attack

    10x Scarabs (+ DLord)- 150

    Heavy Support

    Annihilation Barge - 90
    Annihilation Barge - 90
    Monolith - 200

    1995


    So it at first had 10 Immortals per squad, dropped it down to 9 each to make room for the 5 man Warrior squad. I don't know about that, though. 5 Warriors are basically just going to be there to sit in cover and camp objectives. Otherwise I would roll them into the other Warrior squad and just have it as a blob on foot with Ghost Ark support.

  2. - Top - End - #272
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    Eldan's Avatar

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    So, I'm in an apocalypse game. 13000 vs. 13000 points.

    Defenders:
    1000 points marines, chapter undetermined
    3000 points marines or sororitas, not decided yet
    3000 points imperial fists
    3000 points ultramarines with AM allies
    2000 points imperial guard
    1000 points fortifications

    Attackers:
    Special rules: we can not outflank and we can't bring fortifications. We have some other advantages.
    3000 points tyranids (me)
    3000 points chaos space marines
    3000 points dark eldar
    1000 points Tau.


    Theoretically ,everything is allowed, but I'm reasonably sure there will be few superheavies around, since basically no one has them. The Dark Eldar have one and there's probably one or two on the imperial side.

    I don't have any.

    What I have is this:

    HQ:
    1 hive tyrant, no wings (conversion looked better without them, don't judge me)
    1 Tervigon
    3 Tyrant guard

    Elites:
    3 Hive guard
    1 venomthrope
    2 zoanthropes
    1 Lictor

    Troops:
    5 warriors, close combat specced, one big gun
    30 hormagaunts
    44 termagants, mix of weapons
    9 spore mines

    Fast:
    1 Harpy
    1 Hive crone
    4 raveners

    Support:
    1 Carnifex (close combat)
    1 Exocrine
    1 Trygon (prime)
    1 Mawloc


    The question becomes: formations? What's available to me? I've looked through Valedor and the Apocalypse rulebook, and there doesn't seem to be much, though I probably have hte option to borrow some models from others.

    Endless swarm is an option, with pretty much minimal size units. Alternatively, I could go for the Kraken Tendril Swarm.

    If I can borrow a second tyrant, I might go for hte living fortress. Or borrow biovores and go for the sporeswarm brood.

    Does anyone have any tips on where else I could look for tyranid options?
    Resident Vancian Apologist

  3. - Top - End - #273
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    From what I've seen, the two best Formations for Nids are Skyblight and Living Artillery, though you lack the figs to get those. The annoying thing about formations is that you need to either get lucky and have the models on hand or buy specifically with them in mind, especially for Tyranids who need swarms for most of theirs.

    It doesn't look like you can roll with many of them, I'd say you're probably better off not worrying about it unless you really want to take one.

  4. - Top - End - #274
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Since the painting thread is still dead I figured I'd ask this here, does anyone have any tips for painting yellow and black together over metallic grey? I'm trying a new Iron Warriors colour scheme and this time I actually want to put hazard stripes on them, but getting the yellow to not look terrible is proving hard.
    Sanity is nice to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there.

  5. - Top - End - #275
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Right, got a 3k (non-Apocalypse) game against a Tau/Grey Knight/Guard army next week, split evenly between Tau and Imperium.

    Planned list is as follows:

    Be'lakor
    Typhus
    Level 3 Sorceror of Nurgle

    20 Zombies
    20 Zombies
    7 Plague Marines - Rhino, 2 Plasma, VotLW
    7 Plague Marines - Rhino, 2 Plasma, VotLW
    10 Marines - 2 Meltaguns, Aspiring champ with power weapon, VotLW
    10 marines - 2 Plasma guns, Aspiring champ with power weapon, VotLW, meltabombs

    Heldrake

    Nurgleblit x3, VotLW
    7 Havocs - VotLW, 4 Autocannons

    Helbrute Mayhem Pack - all Multimelta/heavy flamer

    The other option I'm considering is drop the two ten man squads and the Havocs, and take a big blob of Marines with the Icon of Vengeance and a Forgefiend. Or have a big marine blob plus the Havocs.
    i watched your heart turn black.

  6. - Top - End - #276
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Quote Originally Posted by thedavo View Post
    Right, got a 3k (non-Apocalypse) game against a Tau/Grey Knight/Guard army next week, split evenly between Tau and Imperium.

    Planned list is as follows:

    Be'lakor
    Typhus
    Level 3 Sorceror of Nurgle

    20 Zombies
    20 Zombies
    7 Plague Marines - Rhino, 2 Plasma, VotLW
    7 Plague Marines - Rhino, 2 Plasma, VotLW
    10 Marines - 2 Meltaguns, Aspiring champ with power weapon, VotLW
    10 marines - 2 Plasma guns, Aspiring champ with power weapon, VotLW, meltabombs

    Heldrake

    Nurgleblit x3, VotLW
    7 Havocs - VotLW, 4 Autocannons

    Helbrute Mayhem Pack - all Multimelta/heavy flamer

    The other option I'm considering is drop the two ten man squads and the Havocs, and take a big blob of Marines with the Icon of Vengeance and a Forgefiend. Or have a big marine blob plus the Havocs.
    Is this an unbound list or 2 detachments? Well I don't know Chaos that much, but I just saw the 3 HQ choices.
    Last edited by Requizen; 2014-07-23 at 01:31 PM. Reason: can't frelling grammar

  7. - Top - End - #277
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Theoretically ,everything is allowed, but I'm reasonably sure there will be few superheavies around, since basically no one has them. The Dark Eldar have one and there's probably one or two on the imperial side.
    Dark Eldar superheavy?
    Are they simply bringing an allied craftworld Eldar heavy, or is there really some Dark Eldar superheavy out there that I am not aware of?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Endless swarm is an option, with pretty much minimal size units.
    Endless Swarm is nice in that, a few turns in, it basically becomes impervious to anything using templates. Including all of those great Apocalypse templates. Minimum sized squads kind of takes the sting out of it though, I fear...

    Unfortunately, in all of our Apocalypse games, there never was a Tyranid player, so I don't really know what works for them and what does not, either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim Portent View Post
    Since the painting thread is still dead I figured I'd ask this here, does anyone have any tips for painting yellow and black together over metallic grey? I'm trying a new Iron Warriors colour scheme and this time I actually want to put hazard stripes on them, but getting the yellow to not look terrible is proving hard.
    Do not use black primer. Take the white one.

    That's pretty much the most critical bit. Yellow on black primer is an absolute nightmare. Making it work on white primer is pretty trivial. Just put some wash on it afterwards to darken it up a bit again.
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  8. - Top - End - #278
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    Eldan's Avatar

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Might not be an actual superheavy. It's some sort of Forgeworld model and I know it has a Str: D cannon.
    Resident Vancian Apologist

  9. - Top - End - #279
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Might not be an actual superheavy. It's some sort of Forgeworld model and I know it has a Str: D cannon.
    Pretty sure that's an Eldar Superheavy then, since DEs don't have any of their own.


    I fricking love my C'Tan, big nasty bugger with customization, but it never fails: Bring shooting like Transdimensional, it gets assaulted near immediately. Bring CC powers like Gaze, nothing ever gets close enough to charge. Bring both, it's too expensive in anything at or under 1500.

    But I swear I will make it worthwhile eventually.

    Also noted after last night (where I played against Nids instead of Orks, sadly), Writhing Worldscape is dang near useless against Nids, almost that whole army has Move Through Cover. Sigh.

  10. - Top - End - #280
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Might not be an actual superheavy. It's some sort of Forgeworld model and I know it has a Str: D cannon.
    Escalation gave dark eldar access to the revenant, and I believe ForgeWorld added the phantom to that, but Dark Eldar unique superheavies are still just the stuff of rumors. The tantalus is merely a five hull point 12/12/(10?) Transport with some nice guns, but it definitely doesn't have a Strenght D weapon.
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  11. - Top - End - #281
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    Is this an unbound list or 2 detachments? Well I don't know Chaos that much, but I just saw the 3 HQ choices.
    Three detachments, including the Helbrute formation. It's the last game of the first phase of a campaign I'm involved in.

    Marines, plague marines, and zombies are all troops.
    The L3 sorcerer is tooled up to the eyeballs (sigil of corruption, MoN, and Spell familiar), and got named Variolus.
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  12. - Top - End - #282
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    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim Portent View Post
    The other option I'm considering is drop the two ten man squads and the Havocs, and take a big blob of Marines with the Icon of Vengeance and a Forgefiend. Or have a big marine blob plus the Havocs.
    Nah, don't pick up a Forgefiend. You have no other Vehicles to draw heat. If the Tau or Guard have tank-busting weapons, when they wonder what is most efficient to shoot at, they're going to pick the Forgefiend, and that's bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Might not be an actual superheavy. It's some sort of Forgeworld model and I know it has a Str: D cannon.
    Could be a Cobra, Scorpion or Lynx. The first two have AV12 and 9HPs. The Lynx is AV11 with 6HPs - but it's also <500 Points. If you're able to contact your team mates, you should make it clear to them that they need to bring anti-tank stuff, because you're Tyranids and you don't really have that kind of thing. But, you can focus on killing Infantry. If it was 1v1, then you'd be screwed. But Apocalypse games aren't 1v1 affairs - and nor should they be. The key to winning Apocalypse is communication with your team, and that includes before the game even starts.
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  13. - Top - End - #283
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Nah, don't pick up a Forgefiend. You have no other Vehicles to draw heat. If the Tau or Guard have tank-busting weapons, when they wonder what is most efficient to shoot at, they're going to pick the Forgefiend, and that's bad.
    That's what I was thinking. Havocs it is!
    i watched your heart turn black.

  14. - Top - End - #284
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Could be a Cobra, Scorpion or Lynx. The first two have AV12 and 9HPs. The Lynx is AV11 with 6HPs - but it's also <500 Points. If you're able to contact your team mates, you should make it clear to them that they need to bring anti-tank stuff, because you're Tyranids and you don't really have that kind of thing. But, you can focus on killing Infantry. If it was 1v1, then you'd be screwed. But Apocalypse games aren't 1v1 affairs - and nor should they be. The key to winning Apocalypse is communication with your team, and that includes before the game even starts.
    Yeah, I know that much. We actually have two days for the game, and the first will be setting up the terrain, the armies and dicussing strategy with team mates. And other organisation stuff.

    I've seen the first army, now. Our orc player is bringing all heavily armed, walking stuff. Dredds, Kans, Meganobz and a Stompa. And several of the new Gorka-/Morkanauts.
    Resident Vancian Apologist

  15. - Top - End - #285
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    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    What Space Wolf hints do we take away from Storm Claw? This entire post is IMO. These aren't rumours. These aren't 'leaks'. The following post is an extrapolated guess. Nothing more.

    Krom Dragongaze - 135 Points
    A Frost Axe and Belt of Russ alone should be at least 150 Points on a Wolf Lord. That's before you factor in Furious Charge and Stubborn, too. In future, we can either expect that Belts of Russ are standard on a Wolf Lord, or, that Wolf Lords are going to drop to somewhere in the area of 65 Points, like Chaos Lords, as Wolf Lords don't have natural Invulnerable Saves like Space Marine Captains and Iron Halos.

    The Fierce-Eye's Wolf Guard - 230 Points
    From the current Codex, a like-armed WGT squad costs 245 Points. However, if we look at Deathwing Termintors as an example, because WGTs also pick up Acute Senses - for some reason - and Counter-Attack, then we see that adding a Chainfist and Heavy Flamer actually makes sense. Me, personally, I expect an increase in WGT base costs, but a decrease in wargear costs, which should even out. The most disturbing thing is that Storm Claw gives the WGTs Deep Strike. Is this an intentional disregard for the fluff or existing precedents? Or is it an accidental copy-paste error? Time will tell.

    Hengist Ironaxe's Grey Hunters - 125 Points
    Straight up, we notice that Grey Hunters have a Character in the unit with an extra attack. Weird. Will the new Codex disregard the confusing Pack Leaders rule on Wolf Guard, and simply dole them out in a sane manner to squads? The important thing to note is that Hengist (what kind of name is that?) does not have a Leadership increase. He is Leadership 8, just like the other scrubs.
    There are several reasons why this Grey Hunters squad is 10 Points more than it should be;
    - Addition of a Character.
    - Increased the points of Plasma Guns to be like every other Codex (Plasma Guns in the AM/IG Codex are 15 Points, too)
    - Increased the points because nerf and GW hates you.
    All of these things contribute. But, the main thing is that Grey Hunters have also lost Combat Weapons by default, which means they probably wont dominate Blood Claws unilaterally in the next Codex.

    Egil Redfist's Blood Claws - 110 Points
    On the surface, it looks like a points decrease, including the Character. So that's something. Are you a Space Wolf player? You should probably start saving up for Land Raiders. Because, at the end of the day, if Blood Claws end up still being terrible, at least you'll have the cash to buy those swanky Fliers.


    Also, it's been two editions. Surely by now you would have addressed the fact that Space Wolves should have Night Vision, not Acute Senses. They're not the same rule anymore and AS is useless in a Codex that can barely even use Outflank.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2014-07-24 at 04:30 AM.
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  16. - Top - End - #286
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Endless Swarm is nice in that, a few turns in, it basically becomes impervious to anything using templates. Including all of those great Apocalypse templates. Minimum sized squads kind of takes the sting out of it though, I fear...

    Unfortunately, in all of our Apocalypse games, there never was a Tyranid player, so I don't really know what works for them and what does not, either.
    How effective would people think an Endless swarm of
    10 Hormagants
    10 Hormagants
    10 Hormagants
    22 Termagants
    22 Termagants

    Would be?

    If it helps, the tournament organizer redid victory points a good bit. We only get them for taking and holding territory, not killing things.
    Last edited by Eldan; 2014-07-24 at 05:45 AM.
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  17. - Top - End - #287
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    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Guide to Stronghold Assault
    Bloody Siege Warfare in the 41st Millenium

    It's no secret that in 7th Edition, high Armour Value models are pretty good. However, not everyone plays Space Marines and has access to Land Raiders. So, how do you get in on the high armour Fortification action?

    Fortification Upgrades
    Spoiler
    Show
    Fortication Upgrades
    Small Buildings can have one, Medium Buildings can have two, Large Buildings can have three. Simple.
    Ammo Store: Free Prescience. Nice.
    Booby Traps: Doesn't work. If you show your opponent your list like you're supposed to, they'll never, ever fall for it. Although you could put an Objective on the Building and somehow force your opponent into it? ...Like Maelstrom Missions?
    Escape Hatch: Instead of Disembarking from the Building's exit point, you can Disembark up to 12" away, that's really handy. Especially for last turn Objective grabs.
    Magos Machine Spirit: The Building gains BS3.
    Searchlights: Do the thing.
    Void Shield: A Void Shield is an ablative Hull Point of AV12. It also gives your Building something similar to IWND. All for the price of a Power Fist. Do it.

    Obstables
    Obstacles are up to 6" long and must be place wholly within 6" of the Fortification they were bought for. While you can purchase up to six of these things, remember that it's really hard to get larger pieces wholly within 6".
    Tanglewire: A <6" long piece of Dangerous Terrain is kind of cool for 5 Points.
    Barricades: Basically a <6" piece of Defense Line.
    Tank Traps: Impassable Terrain to non-Skimmers and Dangerous Terrain to Bikes, and a Defense Line. Pretty solid.

    Battlefield Debris
    You can only have one of the below for each Fortification
    Ammunition Dump: Similar to the Ammo Store, but also provides a cover save.
    Comms Relay: Reserve manipulation. Some armies can make real use out of it. But most of the time you can ignore it.
    Icarus Lascannon: Skyfire*, Interceptor Lascannon.
    Quad-Gun: Two Twin-Linked Skyfire*, Interceptor Autocannons.
    *Remember that this type of Skyfire can not be 'turned off'.


    Fortifcations
    Spoiler
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    Aegis Defence Line: Funnily enough, it's a Defence Line. Due to it's weird Deployment style, you can do a lot of things with it. You can shore up a bottleneck (especially with extra Barricades), you can make a 'box' so that whatever is inside has a Cover Save from every angle. You'll figure it out. Look at your terrain, and place the Defence Line best. Basically, having a Defence Line is like gaining an extra Ruin, except better, because you get the equivalent of Stealth if you decided to Go To Ground behind it. Defence Lines are the cheapest way to grab Gun Emplacements for those people who still refuse to use Allies and have no other Flier Defense at all. If your army can shoot Fliers anyway, having a unit behind an Aegis Line with an Ammo Dump can make firefights pretty brutal.

    Bastion: It's a Medium Building with AV14, with four Heavy Bolters that all have different Line of Sights. It's a solid model. If you can put a unit that has decent range in it (i.e; Missile Launchers), it's very tough. If you're worried about Deep Strikers - and this goes for all Buildings - just put up to six pieces of Tanglewire around it. If your opponent can't deploy their models, then they mishap. If they're using Drop Pods, the Tanglewire will take the 'Pod far enough away that Melta weapons will be out of Melta-range and need 6s to Glance your AV14.

    Imperial Strongpoint: 1-5 Aegis Lines, 1-3 Bastions, 0-1 Skyshields, 0-1 Honoured Imperium. Ignore the 0-1 stuff. Ignore the 'Imperium' in the title. For the cost of one Aegis Line, you can take up to three more Bastions. This is excellent for non-Space Marines who want get in on the 'Land Raider meta' but don't have Land Raiders in their Codex. Yes, you still have to pay points for all this stuff, but, the point is that you can have several models in the same Fortification slot.

    Honoured Imperium: Pay 40 Points to make Imperial units Stubborn. However, it's only 40 Points and you can take up to six Barricades anyway. But you should ignore this all the time...

    Wall of Martyrs Imperial Defence Line: It's a Defence Line that gives Stubborn. Unfortunately, it can only be upgraded with Obstacles. No Skyfire or Ammo Dumps.

    WoM Imperial Defence Emplacement: I don't know why this is less points than the above. Heavy weapons fired from this Wall can re-roll To-Hit when firing Overwatch.

    WoM Imperial Bunker: WTF!? It's better than a Bastion for cheaper.

    WoM Firestorm Redoubt: At least this one didn't tack on a misleading 'Imperial' title. Ignore all of those. Fortifications are for everyone. It's a Medium AV14 Building with two Gun Emplacements that have Automated Fire...BS2...Ergh. Luckily Quad Icarus Lascannons have two Twin-Linked shots. But, wouldn't you rather upgrade those Icarus Lascannons to Battle Cannons (yes, those) where the BS2 doesn't actually matter? Of course you would. Find your Skyfire somewhere else. Not here.

    WoM Vengeance Weapon Battery: An immobile, BS2 Punisher Cannon with AV14 for 75 Points. BS2 is fine because a Punisher has 20 shots. What? Orks hit all the time. You can upgrade to a Battle Cannon, or a Quad Icarus Lascannon. If you don't have the manpower to actually fire a gun behind an Aegis Line - because all of your models are in Vehicles - then Vengeance weapons are right for you.

    WoM Imperial Defence Network: Again, there's nothing special here. The real key to this type of Fortification is that you have multiple things in the same slot. Although you can always multi-CAD and pick an extra slot or two anyway. It's up to you.

    Promethium Relay Pipe: Model them based off of the size of an Aegis Line, because that's what they are. Non-Vehicles firing Flamer weapons - as defined in the rulebook - may gain Heavy, Torrent. Just don't botch your Cover Saves, although, if you've got 4+ or better armour, it doesn't matter. Eldar Wraithguard gain no benefit because the list of which weapons this Fortification works with is specifically those found in the rulebook.

    Void Shield Generator: It's projects a 'bubble' of AV12. So your opponent has to shoot with their anti-tank weapons first, and even then, it hits the VSG. In low point games - the VSG caps out at 100 Points, which is easily included - it's a terror. In high point games, players are going to pretend that it's an AV13 Super-Heavy with 3 Hull Points, and shut it down easily. Yes, at first it seems powerful, until you understand how it works. If your army can deal with multiple Knight Titans, then it should be able to deal with a VSG. However, Knight Titans inside a VSG is a different matter altogether.
    Yes, there's an Official Model, but that's gone now. But, point is, there is an Official Model, so, you do have to use it as guideline if you want to make your own. Here's how big it is.

    Void Relay Network: Any sane meta has already banned it. For the price of one Promethium Relay Pipe - 40 Points - you can have up to three Void Shield Generators. Yep. It's a thing. Although anyone willing to put in the conversion work for three VSGs deserves to have it. Three VSGs (340 Points ) and three - or more - Knight Titans. Thanks for playing.

    Skyshield Landing Pad: Models on the top gain a 4++. That's solid, especially for Vehicles. So, you can deploy Vehicles on the top, if they want to move off, you roll forwards and take a difficult terrain check...Vehicles flying through the air. It can happen. If you choose not to take the 4++, you can have units that Deep Strike onto the top on the Skyshield not Scatter, which is useful, especially for large footprint Deep Strikers like Blood Angel Land Raiders - and then said Land Raider can drive off. For 5 Points, the Skyshield allows you to start with a Flier in Hover mode on the board, the only stipulation is that your Flier can't Zoom in the first turn. Before you start talking about how broken this is, check if the Flier you want to use can Hover, then think about what happens when your opponent sees a Flier in Hover in mode...

    Fortress of Redemption: The Fortress of Redemption is is four Buildings with AV14, with a Missile Silo and Twin-Linked Icarus Lascannon. Before you go out and buy an Aegis Line three Bastions for your Strongpoint (275 Points, minimum), consider the Fortress of four Buildings instead (220 Points, with guns attached). So...Yeah. The Fortress is a good buy for any army, it's still cheaper even than a single Land Raider.

    Macro-Cannon Aquila Strongpoint: It's 500+ Points. But, it's an AV15 Mighty Bulwark. If your meta likes to field Super-Heavies, but you don't have one of your own, Aquila Strongpoints come fairly easily from Games Workshop, and come with a two-shot Str-D weapon, and an Apocalyptic Mega-Blast weapon for killing Infantry. Basically, it's a Lord of War for people who don't have Lords of War. But, do you want to know what's terrifying? The Macro-Cannon is a Fortifcation. So if you want a Lord of War as well, you can!

    Vortex Missile Aquila Strongpoint: 500+ Points. AV15 Mighty Bulwark. Unlimited range, Large Blast Vortecies. **** Void Shield Generators. This is where it's at - Void Hole Generators. It's exactly as good as it looks. If your opponent goes first, expect them to target this thing immediately, because then you get hit with a Vortex Missile, and that's the downside to this thing. So...You're probably better off with the Macro-Cannon, since when that explodes, it wont kill off another section of your own army.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Last night I learned just how unkillable a Barge-mounted Overlord is with the new Chariot rules. There was an awful lot of nasty looks from the Tau when he realized that all of his Fire Warriors were useless against the Chariot and anything that could hurt it either got jinked or put on the 2+/3++ Overlord. And of course, getting in a Warscythe-equipped Overlord against Fire Warriors and a Cadre Fireblade is always, always entertaining.

    But it got me thinking about Barge Overlords again, and how to utilize them. Charging Tau with the him is one thing (and one hilarious thing, to be fair), but he doesn't really have a lot of targets he wants to charge. Large blobs will tarpit him, even if they can't kill him, he doesn't really have enough attacks to wipe one out outside of Sweeping Advances. Monstrous Creatures will just smash the vehicle, only needing a 5 to instagib with AP2 and Open-Topped. Any squad with Meltabombs or Power Fists will do the same. So basically it boils down to: If it can kill a vehicle in assault, stay away from it, if it can't, a T5/2+/3++ Overlord should be able to handle it. Unless of course, they're a dedicated CC unit that will put out enough attacks that even the Overlord will die.

    But, with his speed and durability to shooting, a Warscythe Overlord should be able to get into combat with shooting units turn 2, maybe turn 1 if the deployment favors you. He should (being the operative word, of course) be able to ignore Assault units that could kill him and start tearing up backline shooters with his 12" move and 18" Flat Out. He'll get to things like Devastator Squads, Fire Warriors, Dark Reapers, etc with no problem and remove them from the board pretty easily.

    However, the other option I've been considering is bringing a cheap, "shooty" Barge Overlord. Tesla Cannons and Gauss Cannons aren't bad guns by a long shot, and while the Staff of Light is only 12", Assault3 S5 AP3 is nothing to sneeze at. The very cheapest you could go (OL with 2+/3++/Barge) is 230, but all but impervious to small arms, ridiculously mobile, and can put out 5 shots per turn that ignore all but Terminator saves. And, against weak things, he can still assault decently - even without the Warscythe, he basically never dies in combat and still gets Sweep Attacks and d6 HoW.

    Either way, whether he's assault clad or cheap/mobile shooting, I think it's worth bringing someone else to be your Warlord, who can sit back while the Overlord goes in and is a big fire magnet. Zahndrekh can even be brought to give him Counter Attack, Furious Charge, or Hit and Run to do his job even better.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Escape Hatch: Instead of Disembarking from the Building's exit point, you can Disembark up to 12" away, that's really handy. Especially for last turn Objective grabs
    The Escape Hatch has been pretty popular in my metagame, so I'd just point out a few other uses;

    -12" from your deployment zone includes the center of the board, i.e. the relic. Turn 1, grab relic. Turn 2, go back in AV 14 HP 4 bunker. As if Relic wasn't dumb enough!

    -Disembarking from a building via the Escape hatch gives you an 18" move turn 1, plus running if you like. For most models, that's like two free scout moves (that ignore servo skulls!). And since most buildings have an awful lot of space... 10 Hammernators charging turn 2, anyone?

    Edit: New wolf rumors from the guy who leaked the stormwolf. Lots of happy wagging tails in the space wolf areas of the web.
    Last edited by Squark; 2014-07-26 at 07:33 AM.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Oh man those Wolf rumors on B&C have me pretty pumped. I'm putting together my Stormclaw Wolves this weekend, I'm gonna be pretty pumped to get the dex.

    Speaking of which, the Formation in the Stormclaw book seems pretty decent, will stick it with my Scions pretty soon.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    So I got my first game with my Salamanders Fire Hawks today, so new that the glue on the drop pod was still drying. And they kicked ass, despite literally everything aligning in their favour. I feel bad about it really, since it was kind of a roflstomp. I wanted to record as many battles from the new army as possible though.

    Campaign Background/Army Lists
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    As it turned out, the store was having a 750 points campaign. You get a planet type (Special rules across the whole board: I got "normal") and a population type (since I got "Normal", I got to choose. The first one was Populous: "your first two troops cost 50% of what they should." Yes, please. Very please. Every game, you're an attacker (2 victory points for winning) or a defender (1 point and fifty points on fortifications for winning).

    With my bonus points for troops, I took this army (Since I don't have any other marine models yet).

    Knight-Captain Demetrius (Captain, Warlord) - 130
    Storm Shield, Combi-flamer, Powersword

    Sternguard Squad "Knights Ignis" -195
    x2 Combi-melta
    x2 Heavy Flamer
    Drop Pod

    Tactical Squad Malvolio 165 83
    Missile Launcher
    Combi-melta
    x5 extra Marines

    Tactical Squad Mercution 165 83
    Missile Launcher
    Combi-melta
    x5 extra Marines

    Inquisitor Alis Meredith 53
    Plasma Pistol
    Power Sword
    Power Armour

    Henchmen Squad 171
    x5 Warriors with Storm Bolters
    x2 Warriors with Plasma Guns
    x3 Crusaders
    x2 Joakero

    (I had 45 points spare but I let it slide since I was getting 165 free. The other guy rolled "One Fast Attack Choice Is Scoring". He owns no Fast Attack models. Campaign rules!)

    His army list:

    Company Command Squad (Medkit, Banner, Heavy Flamer, Death Mask)
    2x Veteran Squads (Grenade Launchers, Carapace)
    2x Veteran Squads (Heavy Bolters, Chimeras, Carapace)
    Leman Russ Eradicator
    Aegis Line

    I got deployment and first turn, and whatever our warlord traits were, they didn't come up. Mission was "Annihilation". I was Defending with a drop pod, he was Attacking with an aegis line. Campaign rules!


    Deployment
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    There was no cover in my deployment zone, and a building in his, with a handful of buildings in between. I deployed everything but the captain and sternguard poised to move into one or other of the buildings- he laid out his aegis line in a square and packed two squads of veterans inside it. I gave the god of "not knowing I have Sternguard" a brief prayer of thanks. He setup his command squad in the building, and the chimeras and eradicator on the flank.


    The Reconquest Of Costeau, Chapter XVI
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    Knight-Captain Demetrius meditated for a day and a night on this, and when he emerged he was filled with a new resolve. Far from regretting the destruction of the rest of their chapter, they would begin anew, restoring the fire hawks to their former glory, with flame and vengeance. He laid out instructions to the rest of the chapter, gathering together the scattered survivors from across the galaxy to his banner. First to join was Questor-Sargeant Levillian of the first company, and his elite veteran squad. With Levillian and his peerless tactical mind at his side, Demetrius announced that the first act of the resurgent Hawks would be to retake their homeworld of Costeau.

    The first act of the war for Costeau would be to take the ruins of the planetary defense networks. Once the automated defenses were online, Demetrius could concentrate on ending the internicine battles amongst the imperial and eldar factions around Costeau, to begin building their world to it's former strength. Before Demetrius could prepare for landing, however, the Ordo Xenos Inquisitor Meredith announced her presence in his strike force. Inquisitorial suspicion of the surviving Fire Hawks was building, and Meredith, with her unorthodox methods and habit of using Xenos mercenaries, was seen by many of the Hawks as an outsider, and an insult. "If we must retake our homeworld with the help of these beasts," Levillian was heard to say, "our victory will be forever tainted."

    A further frustration to Demetrius was the actions of Lord Imperialistic Foss, of the Britannicus Guard, a force of elite guard veterans who had recently claimed Costeau as their own. The opportunity for Demetrius to begin his campaign with a proper battle was tempting beyond measure, so much so that when Meredith offered Inquisitorial approval for the action, at the cost of being allowed to personally accompany Demetrius, he grudgingly accepted.

    Indicative of his true feelings on the matter however, were his muttered words to LeVillian as they boarded their drop pod. "That woman will meet a bad end in battle, mark me. And should she not, one must be arranged."


    Battle
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    Turn one, my Sternguard drop in, in front of the veterans behind the aegis. No scatter. Two heavy flamers, wounding on 2+ and re-rolling to wound: it's a bloodbath. Twenty veterans are killed, straight away. My marines and henchmen advance into cover, and make a few snap shots, none hitting.

    His turn, he turns one of the advancing squads back to deal with the veterans, and their flamer kills one of them. His eradicator fires a shell which scatters, missing, and his heavy bolters from the eradicator, the veterans, and the other chimera kill two of the Crusaders. No other casualties.

    Turn two, the sternguard turn back to the chimera. One squad of marines glance-spams it to death from the side, and the sternguard shoot the disembarking squad. They do little damage, despite "Ignores Cover", but Demetrius combi-flames the rest for several kills leaving only a few survivors. A good start for my new character, which I always love. The other marines move fully into cover and again fail to kill the second chimera. The footslogging Combi-Meltas have yet to enter range of anything yet, and I remind myself to buy more Drop Pods.

    His turn two, the eradicator shell bounces off the storm shield again (five hits, all saves. At this point I start apologising, because i'd been becoming kind of a bad winner. Apparently that's what happens when I start winning.) The heavy bolters, however, kill almost the entire squad, leaving only the inquisitor and one of the plasma gunners. The command squad flames the sternguard back, but salamanders are resistant to flamers too. Only one casualty.

    Turn three, the sternguard target the command squad, but fail to kill any but the flamer thanks to Feel No Pain. (Note to self: get me some of that. Also, Ignores Cover is no good when their armour save is just as good.) The two squads of footslogging marines team up and kill the rest of the veterans from the destroyed chimera. Meredith and her plasma-buddy fire on the Chimera- plasma-buddy misses, but Meredith rolls a six to hit. A six to penetrate. And a six to explode the chimera. I manage, through hard work and mental focus, not to gloat at this. The squad inside is reduced to three men, and it fails it's panic test.

    At this point my opponent concedes. I try and persuade him to continue, but in all honesty I can tell he's not enjoying it. And why should he? I've got a hundred points more than him, and his army couldn't be less suited to killing mine if he tried.

    In his next game that day, I loan him a vendetta and help him try out a more marine-killy list. He doesn't win, but he does better, which is the important bit. I hope.

    (The guy he fights in the other game has a Land Raider as a troops choice. Campaign rules!)


    I'm not sure what I can learn from this game. Buy more drop pods ASAP? Leman Russ Eradicators: Still forgettable? Its confirmed a few things for me that I already suspected, but things were too skew-whiff for any serious conclusions.

    I'm going to tone down the "hundred and sixty points more than everyone else" in most games, but at least a few other people in this tournament are playing for realsies- there's a guy with belial and a deathwing force, a guy with an army of wraith-thingies (he also has the half-cost troops thing) and at least a few competitive guys. I might have to write two lists, one for the nine-year-olds and one for everyone else.
    Last edited by LeSwordfish; 2014-07-26 at 05:42 PM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    So, the July tournament season has shaken out the meta, and what do we have?
    First up, it's important to note that the majority of the tournaments are limited to two or three Detachments. You're not allowed to bring the 'Power Six' so to speak.

    Dark Eldar Beast Stars are still stupid strong. Except Dark Eldar has come back with a vengeance. You want to bring Land Raiders? Knights? Doesn't matter. The Dark Eldar brought a billion Dark Lances, in addition to their indestructible Beast Star. Only thing that the Beast Star bounced off of were Imperial Knights. Stomp doesn't care about your Invisibility.
    Once again, Dark Eldar are the meta-buster. Vote 1 for Vect, Supreme Overlord of the Milky Way. 6th Edition was a bad two years for Dark Eldar. But, don't worry. Everything's fine.

    Necrons are bringing double Catty Barges and a ton of Mech. Wraiths are still fine, but if you're still using Destroyer Lords, apparently you're living in 6th Ed. before Chariots were awesome. Ghost Arks with their Skimmer-ness and being in Troops slot are actually a serious contender for Night Scythes. That said, you still shouldn't leave Night Scythes at home.

    Eldar have Objective Secured Wave Serpents and Wraithknights. With an Iyanden Detachment with five Spiritseers, backing them up, Eldar Farseers with their Runes have actually turned out to be really good as Summoning Daemons when they weren't using Telepathy. Of course, everyone who has read the fluff already knows that Eldar - and Iyanden especially - are all Daemon-worshipping cults. It even says right on the tin, that Eldar are dedicated to Slaanesh, and they spend their whole lives trying to welch out on the deal they made.

    The breakout star of the season are Imperial Knights. But I think everyone already knew that that would happen. With Dark Angel or Imperial Guard Allies, Knights are very strong. With the Adamantine Lance Formation in The Red Waaagh! becoming legit, expect Knights to become even harder...At least until the Adamantine Lance Formation is banned.

    ...Land Raiders. With Mechrons, Knights and Wave Serpents running around the meta, it wouldn't be long before Power Armoured players realised that they had the biggest and baddest tanks around.


    Basically, if you're not prepared to deal with armour and aiming to roll 7s on a six-sided dice, you're in trouble. It's no surprise that Dark Eldar and Necrons came out on top. Not least because when Necrons and DE crack open the vehicles, they actually do have the capabilities to destroy whatever comes out.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2014-07-27 at 12:39 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    I have an away tournament next Saturday. This is the first-draft list. Mech is king again, and I'm packing accordingly.
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    1500 points

    Tank Command Squadron - 475
    -Vanquisher commander
    --Lascannon
    -Battle tank
    -Battle tank

    Primaris Psyker - 75
    -Mastery Level 2

    Enginseer - 40

    Infantry Platoon - 240
    -Platoon Command Squad
    --Vox-caster
    --Three flamers
    -Infantry Squad
    --Vox-caster
    --Autocannon
    -Infantry Squad
    --Autocannon, flamer
    -Special Weapons Squad
    --Three meltaguns

    Veterans - 155
    -Two meltaguns, heavy flamer
    -Chimera
    --Heavy flamer

    Veterans - 155
    -Two meltaguns, heavy flamer
    -Chimera
    --Heavy flamer

    Hellhound - 125
    -Heavy flamer

    Vendetta Gunship - 170

    Wyvern - 65

    The special weapon squad rides the Vendetta, the primaris psyker goes in the blob and does psyker things, and the Enginseer hangs out behind the command tank and makes sure it doesn't die. This is a completely unfamiliar local meta to me, so I'm bringing the Hellhound and Wyvern in case Orks are flavor of the month down there or something. There are a few little things I'd like to bring (a ministorum priest for the blob, servitors for the Enginseer) but I'm not sure what I could cut to put those in without leaving a hole in the list or making my Warlord more vulnerable.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Cheese, do you happen to have any of those lists, or a place with the compilation?

    Also, do you know if tournaments are allowing the 3++ Phase Shifter save to confer to the Command Barge?

    Edit: putting together my Stormclaw box. It looks like the sprues for the Grey Hunters/Blood Claws/WGTerminators are just the sprues from the box, so they can be built as any normal box set of their type. I could build them out as "normal", but how bad are the squads that are in the book?
    Last edited by Requizen; 2014-07-27 at 04:27 PM.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin View Post
    Mech is king again, and I'm packing accordingly.
    Armour is King. You don't see Space Marines carting around six Rhinos/Razorbacks anymore. But you do see two or three Land Raiders. The difference is huge.

    I'm not sure what I could cut to put those in without leaving a hole in the list or making my Warlord more vulnerable.
    The Veterans and the Chimeras? Each one of those is another Infantry Platoon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    Also, do you know if tournaments are allowing the 3++ Phase Shifter save to confer to the Command Barge?
    Absolutely not. Is that a real question?
    "A Chariot is always treated as a single model." seems to be BS, because you wouldn't need two pages worth of rules if it was one model. I mean, sure, if you stopped at that sentence, you might think a 3++ confers to the Chariot...Except, you have another two pages to read.

    But, RAW; The Rider has a profile, the Chariot has a profile. They're two separate things right there. Second, the Rider has wargear, the Chariot does not. The fact that you have to allocate hits indicates that you're specifically not hitting the Rider. You are allocating hits to separate things. The Terminator with Lightning Claws doesn't get a 3++ because the guy next to him has a Storm Shield. If you want that, you should allocate the hit to the guy with the Storm Shield.

    I could build them out as "normal", but how bad are the squads that are in the book?
    The WGTs have Frost Sword, TH/SS, Heavy Flamer/Power Fist, Power Fist, Chainfist.
    It seems dumb. But WGTs currently are one of the units that don't make sense and are one of the units most likely to change in the next Codex... So... Wait and see. Although I'm sure it's sub optimal anyway. But I can't tell you what would be a better loadout without potentially lying.

    The Grey Hunters have a Power Axe, Plasma Gun and Plasma Pistol. That's pretty bad. Especially because the Orks in Storm Claw don't even have 2+ Armour. I know for a fact that the Space Wolves box comes with a Power Sword. Why not use that?
    The Blood Claws have a Power Fist and a different model with a Plasma Pistol. The Power Fist is decent because of Rage, but Blood Claws are still BS3 and a Plasma Pistol is 10-15 Points of nothing.

    I understand the limitations. The units in Storm Claw are limited by the sprues. Still, it's pretty bad.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Absolutely not. Is that a real question?
    "A Chariot is always treated as a single model." seems to be BS, because you wouldn't need two pages worth of rules if it was one model. I mean, sure, if you stopped at that sentence, you might think a 3++ confers to the Chariot...Except, you have another two pages to read.

    But, RAW; The Rider has a profile, the Chariot has a profile. They're two separate things right there. Second, the Rider has wargear, the Chariot does not. The fact that you have to allocate hits indicates that you're specifically not hitting the Rider. You are allocating hits to separate things. The Terminator with Lightning Claws doesn't get a 3++ because the guy next to him has a Storm Shield. If you want that, you should allocate the hit to the guy with the Storm Shield.
    Actually yeah, it has come up on Necron forums from time to time. Due to the wording being the way it is, half register it one way, half the other. It doesn't matter much to me, considering the damn things are already near unkillable and Jink does more or less the same thing (albeit worse), but if it was true then it would be nice.

    There's a rumor out right now that Logan will have an optional Chariot in the new codex, which will have a 4++ invuln save. If so, it doesn't seem too far fetched that the Barge has a similar rule (though 3++ is obviously much better than 4++).

    The WGTs have Frost Sword, TH/SS, Heavy Flamer/Power Fist, Power Fist, Chainfist.
    It seems dumb. But WGTs currently are one of the units that don't make sense and are one of the units most likely to change in the next Codex... So... Wait and see. Although I'm sure it's sub optimal anyway. But I can't tell you what would be a better loadout without potentially lying.

    The Grey Hunters have a Power Axe, Plasma Gun and Plasma Pistol. That's pretty bad. Especially because the Orks in Storm Claw don't even have 2+ Armour. I know for a fact that the Space Wolves box comes with a Power Sword. Why not use that?
    The Blood Claws have a Power Fist and a different model with a Plasma Pistol. The Power Fist is decent because of Rage, but Blood Claws are still BS3 and a Plasma Pistol is 10-15 Points of nothing.

    I understand the limitations. The units in Storm Claw are limited by the sprues. Still, it's pretty bad.
    From what I can tell, the sprues are the sprues from the current boxes. The Terminator sprue has things like Claws in it and the Grey Hunter/Blood Claw sprues are identical also with a bunch of "unused" stuff on them. It looks like I could assemble them any way you could out of the normal box set.
    Last edited by Requizen; 2014-07-27 at 09:42 PM.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Armour is King. You don't see Space Marines carting around six Rhinos/Razorbacks anymore. But you do see two or three Land Raiders. The difference is huge.
    Hence the Russes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    The Veterans and the Chimeras? Each one of those is another Infantry Platoon.
    And Infantry Platoons don't deal with the aforementioned Land Raiders very well.
    "Courage is the complement of fear. A fearless man cannot be courageous. He is also a fool." -- Robert Heinlein


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    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    Due to the wording being the way it is, half register it one way, half the other.
    Like I said, people get hung up on the one sentence about being one model. Really, it only applies to Wounds/HPs, where if one is destroyed, so is the other.

    Shooting with... Use the Rider's BS for Rider-weapons, use the Chariot's BS for Chariot-weapons. Seems like separate models to me.
    Shooting at... The player controlling the Chariot allocates each hit. Seems like separate models to me.
    Fighting Against... The attacker must choose whether to attack the Chariot or the Rider. Seems like separate models to me.

    Yeah. Even if you were to get stuck on one sentence and ignore the rest of the rules, at the end of the day, TOs are not handing 3++es out to Catty Barges.

    There's a rumor out right now that Logan will have an optional Chariot in the new codex
    Sounds like a wish-list, rather than a rumour. Especially after finding out recently that Catty Barges are dominating the meta.
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    Cheesegear is awesome

  29. - Top - End - #299
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Eldan's Avatar

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Has anyone here seen the Anphelion Project Second Edition first hand? Because the Dimachaeron looks incredibly sweet, but I wonder if the rules are any good.
    Resident Vancian Apologist

  30. - Top - End - #300
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Sounds like a wish-list, rather than a rumour. Especially after finding out recently that Catty Barges are dominating the meta.
    The rumors came from a pretty credible source (The guy who first leaked the Stormwolf and Stormfang)- Plus, Logan's model disappeared along side Bjorn, and we've seen images of Bjorn on this week's White Dwarf, heralding the new Dred kit.

    Hardly guaranteed, but, not beyond the realm of possibility.
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