Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

[LeSwordfish]

I like the Extra Flamer/Thunderfire Cannon suggestion. As for Vulkan, I've no idea where he goes or what he does- even when I thought drop pods were capacity 12, I wasn't sure that the tactical squads were a good place for him.

One idea I had was swapping the Ironclad for some minimal Sternguard - This might still be viable, especially if i'm trading the Multi-melta devastators for a TFC. 140 points could get me 5 Sternguard with 2 Heavy Flamers/Multi-Meltas- more or less effective than the Ironclad? Particularly if Vulkan leads them.

[Requizen]

So, if you follow almost any other 40k site, you're probably aware that Santus Reach 2: Stormclaw is coming very soon. So, for those who haven't and are curious here's what's contained in what may be (approximately*) the 7th edition Starter Box.

2 Limited Edition Models: Krom Dragongaze and Warboss Grukk Face-Rippa
1 box of Power Armored Space Wolves (Reccomended to be assembled as 5 blood claws and 5 grey hunters, but since it is a multi-part plastic kit by all appearances, you can do whatever the hell you want with it)
1 box of Space Wolf Terminators
1 herd of Gretchin
1 box of Nobs
3 Killa-Kans
1 Mini-rulebook
1 Stormclaw campaign guide, including dataslates for all the models contained within (including unique profiles for Krom and Grukk (!), and a formation containing all the models from each faction).

*It doesn't contain all the classics of a starter box like templates, snap to assemble models, and the like, but it does have a mini-rulebook and nearly its MRSP in models for each faction.

Personally, it feels like the Orks are getting the short end of the stick, here- Throw another box of power armored Space Wolves in, and you've got a small space wolves force, but those Killa-kans aren't much use and you don't have a good horde of boyz.

Also, judging by the somewhat grainy leaked pictures of White Dwarf, Krom has a unique relic frost blade and at least one special rule that seems to read "Saga of the"

I've also heard that it's also not necessarily going to be the new Starter set, that it may be a limited edition run for the Sanctus Reach window, with Dark Vengeance returning at some point in the future.

Wait, is that a Ork force with 0 Boyz? What is this? That looks pretty bad for the Orks.

[LeSwordfish]

The two forces might be intended as "Upgrade packs"- as in, this isn't for new players, this is for existing ork/wolf players. Or perhaps it's simply a force that they know full well you have to spend more money to get the best of it.

[Squark]

To be fair, the space marine part of AoBR was also not a full army. I think GW is experimenting with new marketing strategies and trying to make a product that both new players and players with existing armies can get use of. In practice, that Orkish force is rather awkward (Seriously, why couldn't it have had boyz in it?)

[thedavo]

Something I learned tonight: RAW, a Big Mekk with a SAG can fire it when he moves, if he is a unit of Meganobz.

[Cheesegear]

Thanks for the advice Cheesegear. Would Space Marines make a better attempt at 500 points?

65 Point HQ and all of the units are 10-15 Points cheaper. So...Yes. However, my advice is that nobody should ever play anything less than 750.

EDIT: By all means, paint 'em red and use Codex Marines for now. Blood Angels Codex is apparently after Space Wolves - although it should be Grey Knights, but we'll see.

To be fair, the space marine part of AoBR was also not a full army.

Neither has anything.

Seriously, why couldn't it have had boyz in it?

Probably for the same reason Chaos Marines had Cultists. It makes it easier for the Marines to win. The idea is for kids to walk into GW, play a game with the Blackshirt. The Blackshirt always lets the kid play Marines. The Marines curb-stomp the other guys. The kid is obviously very good at the game, so obviously he should buy the game.

[Cristo Meyers]

Well we're open to proxies, nothing wrong with playing a bit while you're still buying what you need. As long as it's not too far out and the base is the right size, it should be fine. Of course, seeing nicely built/painted models is half the reason I come every week, but as long as you're planning on it it's cool. We have one guy that's been proxying some old game as Space Marines for like 2 months now with no signs of buying everything, and that's kind of annoying.

Heh, turns out it won't be a problem after all. Lucked out and found a discounted Strike Force on Amazon.

Now let's see if I can still paint as quickly as I used to...

So, if you follow almost any other 40k site, you're probably aware that Santus Reach 2: Stormclaw is coming very soon. So, for those who haven't and are curious here's what's contained in what may be (approximately*) the 7th edition Starter Box.

2 Limited Edition Models: Krom Dragongaze and Warboss Grukk Face-Rippa
1 box of Power Armored Space Wolves (Reccomended to be assembled as 5 blood claws and 5 grey hunters, but since it is a multi-part plastic kit by all appearances, you can do whatever the hell you want with it)
1 box of Space Wolf Terminators
1 herd of Gretchin
1 box of Nobs
3 Killa-Kans
1 Mini-rulebook
1 Stormclaw campaign guide, including dataslates for all the models contained within (including unique profiles for Krom and Grukk (!), and a formation containing all the models from each faction).

*It doesn't contain all the classics of a starter box like templates, snap to assemble models, and the like, but it does have a mini-rulebook and nearly its MRSP in models for each faction.

I can see myself getting that, depending on how much it costs. Wouldn't be too hard to turn around and barter enough of those models I can't use/don't want for ones I do to make it worthwhile...

It's kinda reminiscent of the old 2nd ed starter that was Orks v Blood Angels, actually, though Killa-Kans didn't exist back then.

[banjo1985]

Looks like I'll be picking up a mini-rulebook on eBay then.

I've heard rumours that CSM are getting some new kits in the next month or two, including plastic Plague Marines, and I imagine a bigger box of Cultists with Dark Vengeance coming to the end of its life. Does anyone know if there's any authenticity to the rumours? It's about time cult troops got some new kits, most of them are damn old.

[Cheesegear]

I've heard rumours that CSM are getting some new kits in the next month or two

That was ages ago, and they were repackaged with the Crimson Slaughter paint scheme.

including plastic Plague Marines

Not that I know of.

I imagine a bigger box of Cultists with Dark Vengeance coming to the end of its life.

What makes sense and what actually happens doesn't usually happen with GW.

[Wraith]

Looks like I'll be picking up a mini-rulebook on eBay then.

This is pretty much how I feel, to be fair.
I've already got a crate full of Space Marines and if I wanted Killa Kans then I'd look into some form of medication - pretty much the only thing I want from the new boxed set, if it's not coming with unique and/or themed dice, is a rulebook that doesn't come with a mandatory Fluff (I've been playing the game for 17 years, I pretty much know the story by now...) and Hobby (been painting for at least 17 years) book.

Now let's see if I can still paint as quickly as I used to...

One day, when I get invited to a small army or Kill Team game, I'm going to make good on my promise to collect a new army especially for a "quick" paint scheme. Undercoat in Chaos black, heavy drybrush in Fortress Grey, light drybrush in Codex Grey and random weapons/arms/heads painted Mithril Silver, then just dare anyone to dock me points for not painting my models....

....What? It's Grand Tournament legal! There's even the 3 minimum colours, isn't there?

[Eldan]

I knew a guy who had an army basically painted like that. It was an old White Dwarf alternate codex for a Heinrich Kemmler army. Vampire counts without vampires, basically. But with better necromancers and golems. So, he mostly had golems and they were almost exclusively all grey. Of course, they were painted very, very well and all custom built to a fantastic standard, so...

In other news: Yessss, got another packet of 12 arachnarok legs in the post today. Can't wait to get building on more nids.

[Drasius]

Looks like I'll be picking up a mini-rulebook on eBay then.

+1

I loathe wolves and my passing interest in orks has, well, passed, so there's nothing in there for me. Given that we've got half a dozen wolf players (to the point that they basically are the only loyalist marines that actually see table time), I should be able to grab a rulebook on the cheap.

[Cheesegear]

Given that we've got half a dozen wolf players (to the point that they basically are the only loyalist marines that actually see table time)

I know that feel, bro.
Everyone in my group loves - loves - Space Wolves except me.

[banjo1985]

That was ages ago, and they were repackaged with the Crimson Slaughter paint scheme.

Was that the Hellbrute and maybe one other kit they bought out last year? Please tell me that wasn't it. I've collected CSM three times now over more than a decade and half the models are still the same. Vehicles that aren't just SM ones with some garden railings to stick on would be nice too.

[Drasius]

Holy God Emperor of Mankind!

I know I'm a couple of years late to the party, but sweet Emperor's teeth! Necron Wraiths! WTF? How are they 35 points each?

All I ever heard about was the flying bakery and some good things about their AV 13 wall with a minor grumble about wraiths, but having never seen them in action let alone played them, I didn't think too much about it. I have been toying with the idea of a necron force since I really like the look of the lychguard and a units performance (or, more appropriately, lack thereof) has never been an issue with me, but after seeing what Wraiths get for 5 points less than lychguard, well...

160 - Destroyer Lord, MSS, Sempiternal Weave
160 - Destroyer Lord, MSS, Sempiternal Weave

180 - 5x Warriors & Ghost Ark
180 - 5x Warriors & Ghost Ark

195 - 5x Wraiths, 2x whip coils
195 - 5x Wraiths, 2x whip coils

90 - Annihilation Barge
90 - Annihilation Barge

1250 on the nose.

That's disgusting enough to make a plaugebearer puke.

Add a Doomscythe/Doomsday Ark (probably the Ark for move AV13, but the 'Scythe has a death ray, and that's just awesome) and 5 scarab bases for 1500.

[thedavo]

That was ages ago, and they were repackaged with the Crimson Slaughter paint scheme.



Not that I know of.



What makes sense and what actually happens doesn't usually happen with GW.

This.

Since the end of 5th ed, the only deffkopta model that has been available to Ork players is the metal one. So I doubt we'll see plastic cultists (which would be useful) or plastic Chosen (less so, unless you want to make a Havoc squad with a pile of assault weapons) release using the stuff that was in there.

[Cheesegear]

So I doubt we'll see plastic cultists (which would be useful)

Well, we do have those. It's just that 3 of the models come with different weapons than the other two.

[Requizen]

Interesting thing going through the rumor mill right now:

GW will release other Campagin Books with included old expansions from the softcover era. Storm Claw will be not the last Campaign based boxed set, every half year there comes a new boxed sets of this kind. This Sets can be imperial guard vs. eldar, blood angels vs orks or other Themes.

It's an interesting idea, but I'm not sure I like the limited release runs, though I guess it makes sense (in a way) to release a limited run of models next to a campaign book and add in limited edition HQ models like they're doing with Storm Claw. I have no real inclination to pick up this one, but depending on which armies are in future releases I may or may not be more excited.

[Cheesegear]

I've heard rumours that CSM are getting some new kits in the next month or two, including plastic Plague Marines

Turns out that this rumour showed up tonight at GW and I remembered saying here that no such thing was happening.
Apparently, there will be new Plague Marines (no word on other Cult Troops though), and at least the Great Unclean One and Bloodthirster may be getting a new models as there are no models for Ku'Gath or Skarbrand. I didn't hear about the other Greater Daemons. Along with a Nurgle Supplement for Chaos Space Marines.

As with all rumours, I can never discern the difference between actual thing that is happening or wish-listing. But I refuse to believe anything until I see it in a White Dwarf.

Interesting thing going through the rumor mill right now

No source? Especially since it looks like you've copy-pasted something.

It's an interesting idea, but I'm not sure I like the limited release runs, though I guess it makes sense (in a way) to release a limited run of models next to a campaign book and add in limited edition HQ models like they're doing with Storm Claw.

I love campaign books. The War Zone books are one of my favourite things that GW is doing right now, matching fluff to mechanics in a way that only Apocalypse can. If GW said tomorrow, that Apocalypse Formations and Formations are the same thing then I would tell everyone - without hesitation - to buy up any WZ book that takes their fancy. More importantly, GW is trying to forge narratives with the WZ books, and it's a solid effort - even if some are better than others.

Second thing; Campaign 'sets'. Remember Dark Vengeance? I have it in front of me right now. What I'm hoping for, is that each set comes with a campaign that is designed for the models in the set. This is a problem I have with the Missions found in the backs of Supplements. It barely tells you what models you can and can't bring, and, because Supplements aren't widely used, no-one really knows how the Missions work anyway. What Dark Vengeance does, is specify how you use the models available to you and when. So, like DV, I'm hoping campaign sets will be similar; They're not designed for all the models to be used at once. Hopefully, they're designed to be used in a campaign. What I'm hoping for, is that the Space Wolf Terminators don't show up until Mission three or four when stuff is getting real...But, that's what I'm hoping for. Since these campaign sets are specifically not starter kits. They're designed to play campaigns with, and I really, really, really sincerely hope it takes off.

Minor Fluff point; Every single Wolf Lord in the Chapter is already named (pg 16-17), and I am surprised that GW apparently did fact-check this time and Krom Dragongaze actually exists.

[Requizen]

No source? Especially since it looks like you've copy-pasted something.

Sorry, came from Faeit, forgot to link it. But rumors are rumors, so it's not much more than that.
http://natfka.blogspot.com/2014/07/f...-box-sets.html

I love campaign books. The War Zone books are one of my favourite things that GW is doing right now, matching fluff to mechanics in a way that only Apocalypse can. If GW said tomorrow, that Apocalypse Formations and Formations are the same thing then I would tell everyone - without hesitation - to buy up any WZ book that takes their fancy. More importantly, GW is trying to forge narratives with the WZ books, and it's a solid effort - even if some are better than others.

Second thing; Campaign 'sets'. Remember Dark Vengeance? I have it in front of me right now. What I'm hoping for, is that each set comes with a campaign that is designed for the models in the set. This is a problem I have with the Missions found in the backs of Supplements. It barely tells you what models you can and can't bring, and, because Supplements aren't widely used, no-one really knows how the Missions work anyway. What Dark Vengeance does, is specify how you use the models available to you and when. So, like DV, I'm hoping campaign sets will be similar; They're not designed for all the models to be used at once. Hopefully, they're designed to be used in a campaign. What I'm hoping for, is that the Space Wolf Terminators don't show up until Mission three or four when stuff is getting real...But, that's what I'm hoping for. Since these campaign sets are specifically not starter kits. They're designed to play campaigns with, and I really, really, really sincerely hope it takes off.

Minor Fluff point; Every single Wolf Lord in the Chapter is already named (pg 16-17), and I am surprised that GW apparently did fact-check this time and Krom Dragongaze actually exists.

As interesting as that is, nobody I know really does the campaign missions (or any missions for that matter), preferring just to play games or make mission objectives of their own. I'd be interested if someone said they wanted to split the cost of Storm Claw and then build/play them through with each other, experiencing the campaign, but I guess you just need someone to do that as a buddy activity. For most of us, we come in on game days and play normal missions, so we look at the box sets as ways to get models.

On that note, interestingly enough, almost no one at my store plays Space Wolves. I'd consider it (as I think the lore isn't too bad other than all the Wolfy Wolf names) if someone offered to go halvsies and wanted the Orks.

[Squark]

On that note, interestingly enough, almost no one at my store plays Space Wolves. I'd consider it (as I think the lore isn't too bad other than all the Wolfy Wolf names) if someone offered to go halvsies and wanted the Orks.

A lot of the over-wolfness is do to Imperial mistranslations; Wolf Lord actually means "King" (The fenrisian word is Jarl), the chapter name is Vylka Fenrika (Wolves/People of Fenris), etc. I think the issue is that Fenrisian mythology and culture make heavy use of wolf imagery, and so the wide and varied imagery they use doesn't translate into Gothic (Or English, for that matter). Sort of a number of words for snow issue.

Wolf Wolfborn is still a dumb name, though

[Darthteej]

But those are just retcons that Dan Abnett made for Prospero Burns. Although personally, I wouldn't mind "Codex: Vlka Fenryka" that follows those naming conventions, especially since it would fit in with codexes Adepta Soritas and Astra Milatarum.

[Requizen]

But those are just retcons that Dan Abnett made for Prospero Burns. Although personally, I wouldn't mind "Codex: Vlka Fenryka" that follows those naming conventions, especially since it would fit in with codexes Adepta Soritas and Astra Milatarum.

I'd dig that for a name, but I don't think it's likely. It's pretty out there even compared to the dog-Latin of recent releases. Also, Space Marines and Dark Angels are still Space Marines and Dark Angels, so it would be strange for Space Wolves to break that format.

[Eldan]

They might change that now, since it's been proven they can't sue people over the name "Space Marine"

So yeah. Maybe we'll see the Lupes Caelum and the Angeli Tenebrosum.

[Darthteej]

And don't forget Codex: Angeli Sanguine, and Codex: Adeptus Astartes

[Cheesegear]

For most of us, we come in on game days and play normal missions, so we look at the box sets as ways to get models.

That's...Kind of my point. Because the campaign sets - or at least this one in particular - don't feature any new models. What's the point in buying the box if you aren't already playing those armies? I'll tell you right now, Storm Claw has 'junk' on both sides, which you can avoid simply by spending your 'half' of Storm Claw on actual models that aren't terrible.
And, since it's quote 'not a starter kit', it doesn't help new players, either.

It's crap for players already interested in the army.
It's crap for players looking to start those armies.
It's crap for people who don't know how to play the game in the first place.

What is the point of buying Storm Claw if not for the campaign? How good/fun is the campaign? I don't know.

[Drasius]

For the mini rulebook that you get a discount on by selling the models for cheap on eBay?

[Cheesegear]

For the mini rulebook that you get a discount on by selling the models for cheap on eBay?

Again, that's one of my points. Want me to pay $50 for a book? Fine. I'll do that. Want me to pay an additional $130 on models I don't want or need...

[Requizen]

Well, so the box is (rumored) $125. I talked to a guy at the store tonight who would be interested in going half for the Orks, so call it $62 per person (though we also have someone who wants to buy the mini rule book off us as well, so could be cheaper). I don't know about him, but the Space Wolves side looks pretty good to start with, just need some more Troops and some Vehicles to make it a good small army. It's also like $128 worth of models (pricing the Wolf Lord as a Captain model) for $62 on the split.

Again, I wouldn't consider it for the Orks given the models, but I think it's pretty good for the Sons of Russ.

[thedavo]

That's...Kind of my point. Because the campaign sets - or at least this one in particular - don't feature any new models. What's the point in buying the box if you aren't already playing those armies? I'll tell you right now, Storm Claw has 'junk' on both sides, which you can avoid simply by spending your 'half' of Storm Claw on actual models that aren't terrible.
And, since it's quote 'not a starter kit', it doesn't help new players, either.

It's crap for players already interested in the army.
It's crap for players looking to start those armies.
It's crap for people who don't know how to play the game in the first place.

What is the point of buying Storm Claw if not for the campaign? How good/fun is the campaign? I don't know.

The DV set was actually pretty good in this regard. I bought one and swapped all my DA for my friend's Chaos, as I wanted to start a Chaos army, and even if Chosen turned out to be rubbish (which they did), I figured I could use them as normal Chaos marines (which I do). Helbrutes are still lame though. The DA side was good IMO, with bikes, a bunch of marines, and terminators.