Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

[LeSwordfish]

Actually, Vulkan is a Captain. (Only Calgar, Pedro, and Helbrecht are Chapter Masters). Command squads are super expensive when Melta/Flamer'd up (210 compared to 175) or i'd consider it- plus, the extra pen on the Heavy Flamers is very nice.

I very very much like the idea as somewhere to go when expanding this force, though.

[Squark]

No, he's a Captain. ;)

No, he's the chapter master. He used to be captain of the fourth, but he's currently the chapter master.

[LeSwordfish]

In rules terms, however, he's on the list of Captains who get you Command Squads.

I thought Vulkan was the "Forgefather" and some bloke called Tu'Shan was Chapter Master? Or do the Salamanders not have a Chapter Master, since they still believe the original Vulkan is alive, and has presumably popped out for lunch and will return to put in a solid afternoon's work.

[Requizen]

Oh jeez I was convinced for whatever reason that Spyders were $50 per model instead of $33. That's still way too expensive, but it's a lot better than what I thought

I'm reconsidering Stormclaw. It's like, I think it's a great deal, and I actually like Space Wolves, but I'm not sure if I'm going to collect them in the future and I still have so much more Necron and Scions/Knight to go through that doesn't seem responsible to get it now. Argh, hate indecision. Well, I guess I just won't preorder one at the store and if they have one left over next I go in I'll consider it then.

[bluntpencil]

In rules terms, however, he's on the list of Captains who get you Command Squads.

I thought Vulkan was the "Forgefather" and some bloke called Tu'Shan was Chapter Master? Or do the Salamanders not have a Chapter Master, since they still believe the original Vulkan is alive, and has presumably popped out for lunch and will return to put in a solid afternoon's work.

This is correct: Tu'Shan is Chapter Master, Vulkan is Forgefather. His job is to quest for Vulkan's relics. He's not the Chapter Master.

[Drasius]

Given they already sold out and most stores will see fisticuffs between the legions of space wolf players to get one of the 4 copies most stores got, the call has probably been made for you.

[Requizen]

No one at my store plays Wolves and there's relatively few Ork players, and the owner said that there was still room to reserve/order when I called yesterday. There's a decent chance I could call now and get one reserved... ah screw it might as well.

Edit: did it. Oh well, Wolves are cool. If I don't use them they can sit next to my GK Termies and Hormagants of models that I thought were cool but then decided I didn't like as much as I thought.

[Cheesegear]

Though, the phrasing of "if you want more melta" makes me curious- what would you suggest I took instead of multi-/combi-meltas? Heavy Bolter on the flamer squad? Combi-Gravs/flamers for the Sternguard?

...Nothing? I personally don't put Heavy weapons in Drop Pods at all. That being said, three Heavy Flamers in one unit is overkill. Drop a Marine from the Tactical Squad (you aren't splitting them anyway, right?) and put He'Stan in there. That single Multi-Melta Marine is worth 24 Points, that's two Combi-Weapons on your Sternguard right there. You can use the extra points to upgrade that Flamer into a Meltagun. Which is fine, because He'Stan's Heavy Flamer is now in the unit.

No one at my store plays Wolves

Is...Is...Is that what heaven looks like?

[Requizen]

Is...Is...Is that what heaven looks like?

Haha I dunno about that. I think they all had the same impression as I did: it's the army for new people (especially 12 year olds). After actually reading the lore, though, I kind of dig them. I've never been a big fan of most of the C:SM chapters, so I'm interested in trying them out if we can. Hell, since I'll be splitting the Orks with that one guy, maybe we actually will try the campaign if I can convince him to build them fast enough.

[Cristo Meyers]

It didn't help that the last time the Wolves got a new codex it was unequivocally better than the majority of other Marine lists.

--

So how is everyone equipping their Honour Guard? My Strike Force arrived early and since I've already put the 5 Assault Marines together as regular Tacticals, I might just have enough spare bits to create 4-5 Honour Guard instead of the Command Squad that comes with it.

Nothing like painting to remind me that I'm not as young as I used to be, though...my back.

[Cheesegear]

After actually reading the lore, though, I kind of dig them.

I like their Fluff, I just hate their aesthetic.

So, the gauntlet has been thrown. I'm facing this list this weekend;

Green Tide / Orks Grots

Spoiler

Show

Green Tide Formation - Waaagh! Ghazgkull
(W) Warboss; 'Eavy Armour, Power Klaw, Big Bosspole, Da Super-Cybork - 159 Points
Boyz (x10); Rokkit Launcha, Boss Nob; Power Klaw - 100 Points
Boyz (x10); Rokkit Launcha, Boss Nob; Power Klaw - 100 Points
Boyz (x10); Rokkit Launcha, Boss Nob; Power Klaw - 100 Points
Boyz (x10); Rokkit Launcha, Boss Nob; Power Klaw - 100 Points
Boyz (x10); Rokkit Launcha, Boss Nob; Power Klaw - 100 Points
Boyz (x10); Rokkit Launcha, Boss Nob; Power Klaw - 100 Points
Boyz (x10); Rokkit Launcha, Boss Nob; Power Klaw - 100 Points
Boyz (x10); Rokkit Launcha, Boss Nob; Power Klaw - 100 Points
Boyz (x10); Rokkit Launcha, Boss Nob; Power Klaw - 100 Points
Boyz (x10); Rokkit Launcha, Boss Nob; Power Klaw - 100 Points

Combined Arms Detachment
Mad Dok Grotsnik - 160 Points
Big Mek; Kustom Force Field - 85 Points
Mek; Grot Oiler - 20 Points
Mek; Grot Oiler - 20 Points

Gretchin (x11) + Runtherd - 38 Points
Gretchin (x11) + Runtherd - 38 Points
Gretchin (x11) + Runtherd - 38 Points

Mek Gunz (x4); Traktor Kannons - 120 Points
Mek Gunz (x4) - 72 Points

Total: 1750 Points

Two Detachments max? Yes.
At least one CAD? Yes.
Totally legal for the tournament meta?

If I'm guessing his plan correctly - and I'm sure I am - then I'm looking at 100 Fearless Orks with 5++ vs. Shooting with FNP, Waaagh!-ing every turn except the first, with 12 Power Klaws.

[Squark]

I like their Fluff, I just hate their aesthetic.

Although the wolves don't have any known successor chapters, you can always say your Wolves are from a lost company that's managed to survive for several centuries and as a result has developed its own aesthetic. I've seen a few lost companies that looked pretty cool.

So, the gauntlet has been thrown. I'm facing this list this weekendGreen Tide / Orks Grots

Spoiler

Show

Green Tide Formation - Waaagh! Ghazgkull
(W) Warboss; 'Eavy Armour, Power Klaw, Big Bosspole, Da Super-Cybork - 159 Points
Boyz (x10); Rokkit Launcha, Boss Nob; Power Klaw - 100 Points
Boyz (x10); Rokkit Launcha, Boss Nob; Power Klaw - 100 Points
Boyz (x10); Rokkit Launcha, Boss Nob; Power Klaw - 100 Points
Boyz (x10); Rokkit Launcha, Boss Nob; Power Klaw - 100 Points
Boyz (x10); Rokkit Launcha, Boss Nob; Power Klaw - 100 Points
Boyz (x10); Rokkit Launcha, Boss Nob; Power Klaw - 100 Points
Boyz (x10); Rokkit Launcha, Boss Nob; Power Klaw - 100 Points
Boyz (x10); Rokkit Launcha, Boss Nob; Power Klaw - 100 Points
Boyz (x10); Rokkit Launcha, Boss Nob; Power Klaw - 100 Points
Boyz (x10); Rokkit Launcha, Boss Nob; Power Klaw - 100 Points

Combined Arms Detachment
Mad Dok Grotsnik - 160 Points
Big Mek; Kustom Force Field - 85 Points
Mek; Grot Oiler - 20 Points
Mek; Grot Oiler - 20 Points

Gretchin (x11) + Runtherd - 38 Points
Gretchin (x11) + Runtherd - 38 Points
Gretchin (x11) + Runtherd - 38 Points

Mek Gunz (x4); Traktor Kannons - 120 Points
Mek Gunz (x4) - 72 Points

Total: 1750 Points

Two Detachments max? Yes.
At least one CAD? Yes.
Totally legal for the tournament meta?

If I'm guessing his plan correctly - and I'm sure I am - then I'm looking at 100 Fearless Orks with 5++ vs. Shooting with FNP, Waaagh!-ing every turn except the first, with 12 Power Klaws.

Eep. But, right. Tailoring time. Let's see... Well, any debuffs you can throw out will be very effective, since you're hitting 1400 points of his army with a single malediction (Those orks don't have Adimantium Will or some other psychic defense, do they?) Or...

Hrrmm... This is rather gimicky, but do Rad Grenade launchers stack? Because two ravenwing grenade launchers would leave you with T2 Orks who don't get FNP against boltguns. Combine with the bolter banner and you might be able to whittle away at that death star. Alternatively, even one toughness reduction will at least deny him FNP against Thunderfire Cannons.

EDIT: Also, apologies about the Salamanders confusion. I guess that'll teach me to double check my sources.

[Drasius]

Flamer based crisis suit spam with submunition railheads for Str 6 large blasts ? Warscaper drone to force difficult terrain tests?

Shotgun scouts in heavy flamer LS storms with dual hg speeders and whirlwinds

Tremorstave crons with anni barges and tesla immortals + wraiths

Plague zombies, heldrake and belakor to guarantee you get terrify to ensure his 100 boy unit has a reasonable chance at fleeing off the table, or at least not charging you.

[Requizen]

Every time I see Green Tide, I just think:

Trayzn. Empathic Obliterator. Bring a Lord to Challenge out the Warboss and laaaaaaaaaaugh.

[Cheesegear]

Eep. Especially since I can't shake the feeling the KFF is a 4++.

The KFF is a 5+. There's a 4++ one in Waaagh! Ghazgkull. But, the stipulation of the meta is that you must have at least one CAD, which means you can't take a Green Tide and the Ghazgkull Detachment, where you could take that particular Relic. The downside of the Green Tide is that you can't bring a Finkin' Cap on your Warlord, but I'm not sure that matters for this list, because you're trading out for the Big Bosspole, which makes the unit Fearless - of course Mad Dok also does that, but, two sources of Fearless can't hurt in case one gets a Barrage on their head.

But, right. Tailoring time. Let's see... Well, any debuffs you can throw out will be very effective, since you're hitting 1400 points of his army with a single malediction

Straight off the bat, if Pedro Kantor is your Warlord, all Crimson Fists models (everything) gain Preferred Enemy (Orks). So, that's a thing. I'd love to include Farsight, but the nerf to Tau Allies means that that isn't a good idea anymore. Why not just multi-CAD Crimson Fists? The joke is, that Kantor is one of the best ways to play Imperial Fists in 7th, so a whole bunch of my lists include him anyway, whether or not I play against Orks.
Double Thunderfires is a thing that is happening. Again, something I would probably be doing anyway.

Here's my core list.

Crimson Fists

Spoiler

Show

(W) Pedro Kantor - 185 Points
Honour Guard (x8) + Drop Pod - 245 Points

Scout Squad (x10); x9 Sniper Rifles, Missile Launcher, Veteran Sergeant - 139 Points
Scout Squad (x5); Boltguns, Heavy Bolter - 63 Points

Sternguard (x5); x2 Heavy Flamers + Drop Pod - 175 Points
Sternguard (x5); x2 Heavy Flamers + Drop Pod - 175 Points
Sternguard (x5); x2 Lascannons - 160 Points

Devastators (x7); x4 Missile Launchers - 158 Points
Thunderfire Cannon - 100 Points
Thunderfire Cannon - 100 Points

Total: 1500 Points

This list generally gives me around 250 Points to play with to tailor to any tournament I might be heading to. If I expect Fliers, I can add Flakk Missiles to the Devastators or a pair of Talons. If I expect Grey Knights, I can beef up the Sternguard and add Combi-Plasmas or Melta weapons, if I expect Daemons I can jam in an Inquisition Detachment, and put Coteaz in with the Devastators, etc.

So, straight up, I need to drop the Devastators. Mek Gunz are Artillery so Tank Hunters and 'AP2' vs. Buildings isn't going to do anything. Now I have roughly 400 Points to play around with, now that I have a free Heavy slot, I immediately want to field my Land Raider Achilles, which is basically another Thunderfire Cannon on a Land Raider. Trust in Land Raiders.

All of the Honour Guard will need Power Mauls.
Now, I could give the Sternguard all Combi-Flamers and be entirely unsubtle. But I don't want to do that. I know it would work, but it's obvious tailoring and I would be winning by being a douche. "Seriously Cheese, when was the last time you ever used Combi-Flamers...Ever!?"

This is rather gimicky, but do Rad Grenade launchers stack?

Rad Launchers from different units stack, but it does stack with Enfeeble from Biomancy.

[LeSwordfish]

They're all one squad, right? Psychotroke grenades? Plus a leadership debuff?

[Cheesegear]

They're all one squad, right? Psychotroke grenades? Plus a leadership debuff?

1500 Points
- Devastators = 1342
- Lascannons = 1302
+ Land Raider Achilles = 1627

Inquisitorial Detachment
Ordo Xenos Inquisitor - Rad Grenades, Psychotroke Grenades, Psyker - 85 Points

Total: 1712 Points

+3 (Total 8) Boltgun Scouts, Hellfire Shells = 38 Points

Total: 1750.

EDIT:
While I'm looking at it. Crush from TK has a Strength of 2D6 with 11 or 12 'wounding automatically'. Note, however, that an 11 or 12 does not give a Strength value and therefore doesn't cause Instant Death, I was more than annoyed when this happened in game and I did not get to Crush a Daemon Prince with the power of my mind.

[Tehnar]

So a fun Orky combo:

Battlewagon without killkannon.
KFF Big Mek + Mega Armor
15 lootaz

The Mega armor Big Mek hands out Slow and Purposeful to Lootaz, so they don't have to snapfire their weapons when moving with the Battlewagon, and the battlewagon gets the 5++.

[Requizen]

It didn't help that the last time the Wolves got a new codex it was unequivocally better than the majority of other Marine lists.

--

So how is everyone equipping their Honour Guard? My Strike Force arrived early and since I've already put the 5 Assault Marines together as regular Tacticals, I might just have enough spare bits to create 4-5 Honour Guard instead of the Command Squad that comes with it.

Nothing like painting to remind me that I'm not as young as I used to be, though...my back.

So did you decide what chapter you're going for? Or are you just painting your own scheme and working it out later?

[thedavo]

So, Planetstrike.

Got a 1500 game against Tau tomorrow, the Planetfall mission, I'm the attacker (using my Chaos as usual).

At the moment, my list is looking like this:

(W) Typhus 230
Sorcerer - ML3, Nurgle, Sigil, Spell Familiar 165

Terminators (x3) - VotLW, Combi melta x2, Combi flamer 119

Plague Marines (x7) - 2 Plasma guns 198
Plague Marines (x7) - 2 Plasma guns 198
Zombies (x20) 90

Heldrake - Baleflamer 170

Havocs (x8) - VotLW, 2 Plasma, 1 Flamer, 1 Melta 167
Obliterator - VotLW, Nurgle 79
Obliterator - VotLW, Nurgle 79

If I had a third Helbrute I'd take the Murderpack, probably at the expense of the Havocs and Sorcerer but I don't. And as without the Murderpack they're walking on, there's no way in hell they're going to do anything.
Any ideas/tweaks? Unfortunately I only have one FA, and that's the chicken.

[Cristo Meyers]

So did you decide what chapter you're going for? Or are you just painting your own scheme and working it out later?

It's my own color scheme. I've got a fair number of the Marines and all the Scouts painted already, I just ran out of time and energy to get any pictures. And since the credit card company locked down on a potential data leak I probably won't be able to get my hands on the codex for another week or so.

Mostly I'm just trying to get the most out of the bits I've got left and create as many different options as I can. Many of them are getting kitted out with the other special weapons and the two missile launchers so I can swap them in and out as needed, but why pass up a chance at getting an Honour Guard if I can do it?

[Requizen]

It's my own color scheme. I've got a fair number of the Marines and all the Scouts painted already, I just ran out of time and energy to get any pictures. And since the credit card company locked down on a potential data leak I probably won't be able to get my hands on the codex for another week or so.

Mostly I'm just trying to get the most out of the bits I've got left and create as many different options as I can. Many of them are getting kitted out with the other special weapons and the two missile launchers so I can swap them in and out as needed, but why pass up a chance at getting an Honour Guard if I can do it?

Well, if you feel like coming, there's a few SM players that show up on the norm, so you can bum off their codices until you get yours.

What box set did you buy? I'm not familiar with the Marine sets.

[Cristo Meyers]

Well, if you feel like coming, there's a few SM players that show up on the norm, so you can bum off their codices until you get yours.

What box set did you buy? I'm not familiar with the Marine sets.

Sprung for the Strike Force. Don't usually like to drop that much all at once, but I found a discounted one on Amazon:

Captain
Command Squad
Drop Pod
Razorback
Ven. Dreadnought
2 Tactical Squads
5 Sniper Scouts
5 Assault Marines

I gave the Assault Marines bolters and thus far only made the Apothecary out of the Command Squad, leaving me 9 bodies to work with. Once I get the remaining Tactical Squad painted/assembled I'm going to take stock of what I've got left and see what gets me the most options for my bits. Hopefully heavy/special weapons and a 4-5 man honour guard...

With a little luck I'll be able to rig the Dreadnought and the Razorback turret so I can swap the weapons around. I'm unfamiliar with the new plastic dreadnoughts, so I'll have to see what comes of it.

[bluntpencil]

Straight off the bat, if Pedro Kantor is your Warlord, all Crimson Fists models (everything) gain Preferred Enemy (Orks). So, that's a thing. I'd love to include Farsight, but the nerf to Tau Allies means that that isn't a good idea anymore. Why not just multi-CAD Crimson Fists? The joke is, that Kantor is one of the best ways to play Imperial Fists in 7th, so a whole bunch of my lists include him anyway, whether or not I play against Orks.
Double Thunderfires is a thing that is happening. Again, something I would probably be doing anyway.

Here's my core list.

Crimson Fists

Spoiler

Show

(W) Pedro Kantor - 185 Points
Honour Guard (x8) + Drop Pod - 245 Points

Scout Squad (x10); x9 Sniper Rifles, Missile Launcher, Veteran Sergeant - 139 Points
Scout Squad (x5); Boltguns, Heavy Bolter - 63 Points

Sternguard (x5); x2 Heavy Flamers + Drop Pod - 175 Points
Sternguard (x5); x2 Heavy Flamers + Drop Pod - 175 Points
Sternguard (x5); x2 Lascannons - 160 Points

Devastators (x7); x4 Missile Launchers - 158 Points
Thunderfire Cannon - 100 Points
Thunderfire Cannon - 100 Points

Total: 1500 Points

This list generally gives me around 250 Points to play with to tailor to any tournament I might be heading to. If I expect Fliers, I can add Flakk Missiles to the Devastators or a pair of Talons. If I expect Grey Knights, I can beef up the Sternguard and add Combi-Plasmas or Melta weapons, if I expect Daemons I can jam in an Inquisition Detachment, and put Coteaz in with the Devastators, etc.

So, straight up, I need to drop the Devastators. Mek Gunz are Artillery so Tank Hunters and 'AP2' vs. Buildings isn't going to do anything. Now I have roughly 400 Points to play around with, now that I have a free Heavy slot, I immediately want to field my Land Raider Achilles, which is basically another Thunderfire Cannon on a Land Raider.

What are the Honour Guard for? Will they be kick ass with Preferred Enemy and Pedro's +1A?

[Squark]

What are the Honour Guard for? Will they be kick ass with Preferred Enemy and Pedro's +1A?

Well, assuming Honor Guard have bolt pistols, they've got 4 attacks (5 on the charge) with S6 weapons, so on the turn combat begins, they're wounding on a re-rollable 2+, with no saves allowed (KFF doesn't work in close combat, I believe) and he won't get FNP, since the rad grenades work on the first turn of combat regardless of who gets the charge. The only challenge is surviving to challenge, since they can't charge on the first turn, and you can guarantee every last gun is going to be pointed at them. Of course, he doesn't have anything to tie them up (Simple mathhammer suggests a lone Gretchin pack stands a very good chance of getting smooshed outright, and even if they don't, the result should do it).

Still, those Honor Guard are going to put a dent in the Green Tide, but its highly unlikely more than a quarter of the tide is going to be taken out, and the next turn Grotsnik will be back online.

[bluntpencil]

I just realised that Pedro can give Dreadnoughts bonus attacks. Is this worth it?

[Jormengand]

I just realised that Pedro can give Dreadnoughts bonus attacks. Is this worth it?

Useful to remember, but probably not a thing you want to be incorporating into your overall strategy unless you're building to take advantage of it.

[Squark]

I just realised that Pedro can give Dreadnoughts bonus attacks. Is this worth it?

Ironclads are the only ones that care, and unless you took a Master of the Forge, they're hogging your sternguard slots. And if you really want dreadnaughts, take Clan Raukaan.

[Cheesegear]

Got a 1500 game against Tau tomorrow, the Planetfall mission, I'm the attacker (using my Chaos as usual).
[...]
Any ideas/tweaks? Unfortunately I only have one FA, and that's the chicken.

Nothing to me springs as wrong, except for the many Veterans in your army. But, if you know your opponent is going to be playing Marines, then there's no problem.

Planetstrike Detachments can choose to pass or fail one Reserve roll per turn - and they start rolling on the first turn.
Attacker Detachment units that can Deep Strike can Charge on the turn they land.
Attacker Detachments don't have compulsory Troops and can take up to six Elite choices. Not having compulsory Troops is exactly fine because you don't have Objective Secured anyway, you gain no benefit from having Troops except to fill out your points requirements.

Six Elite slots. Can Charge on the turn you Deep Strike. Bring ALL the Chaos Terminators!
Six Fast slots are good too. Warp Talons and Raptors are amazing.

The main 'problem' I have with your army is that you're not taking advantage of how Planetstrike actually works.

What are the Honour Guard for? Will they be kick ass with Preferred Enemy and Pedro's +1A?

That's the plan. 4/5 Attacks with re-rolls, ignoring Armour Saves and S6 will ignore their FNP while it's at it. The only problem is the Initiative step where the 12 Power Klaws pile-in. Hopefully I can engineer my Landing or Charge to be as far away from the Nobz as possible so even with their 3" Pile-in, they still can't make it to combat. I'm not sure how many people realise how big a footprint 100 models actually has. As an ex-Infantry Guard player with over 130 Infantry models, I can tell you it's not small.

Still, those Honor Guard are going to put a dent in the Green Tide, but its highly unlikely more than a quarter of the tide is going to be taken out, and the next turn Grotsnik will be back online.

So long as we don't end up playing Purge the Alien (how fitting would that be), I only need to put a dent in it. I can definitely kill his Gretchin mobs without breaking a sweat. My issue is keeping my own Objective Secured units alive until the end of the game, and 100 Orks can multi-Charge a lot of units.

I just realised that Pedro can give Dreadnoughts bonus attacks. Is this worth it?

Not really. Drop Pods cancel each other out and aren't included.

Sternguard (x5); x2 Heavy Flamers - 140 Points
Ironclad Dreadnought; x2 Heavy Flamers, Ironclad Assault Launchers - 155 Points

The Ironclad can drop one Heavy Flamer to a Meltagun. But, the Sternguard can pick up a Combi-Melta as well for the 10 Points. The Sternguard have Objective Secured when Pedro is in the army - he doesn't have to be Warlord either. But, again, if you look at The Green Tide (+ Grotsnik), you'll see that I'm staring down the barrel of 10 Rokkits and 12 Power Klaws, there's no way a Vehicle will survive.

Ironclads are the only ones that care, and unless you took a Master of the Forge, they're hogging your sternguard slots. And if you really want dreadnaughts, take Clan Raukaan.

Multi-CAD?

(W) Pedro Kantor - 185 Points
Master of the Forge - 90 Points
Sternguard (x5); x2 Heavy Flamers + Drop Pod - 175 Points
Sternguard (x5); x2 Heavy Flamers + Drop Pod - 175 Points
Sternguard (x5); x2 Heavy Flamers + Drop Pod - 175 Points
Scouts (x5); Boltguns - 55 Points
Scouts (x5); Boltguns - 55 Points
Ironclad Dreadnought; x2 Heavy Flamers, Ironclad Assault Launchers + Drop Pod - 190 Points
Ironclad Dreadnought; x2 Heavy Flamers, Ironclad Assault Launchers + Drop Pod - 190 Points
Thunderfire Cannon - 100 Points

Librarian - 65 Points
Sternguard (x8) - 186 Points
Scouts (x5); Boltguns - 55 Points
Scouts (x5); Boltguns - 55 Points

Total: 1751 Points
Only problem is that it looks super-tailored. There's no Flier Defense, and no Interceptor to stop Summon spam, and totally falls apart against Vehicles with AV13 or more. I don't know how this list is supposed to compete against Necrons at all.

[Requizen]

So I've been thinking about Destroyer Lords a bit more lately. I mentioned before trying them outside of the normal Wraithstar (which, while stupidly effective, aren't my favorite models and also I don't own them). I have run mine with Scarabs (pretty good, basically a wound bubble around him and Entropic is great) and once with Deathmarks (pretty funny, wounding on 2s and rerolling 1s is pretty great).

But what else could I run him with? Well, he bring PE(E!), which he confers to any squad he joins. He brings his 2+ save, 2+ LOS!, and can carry a Res Orb, which makes him and the squad he's with pretty tanky. And, of course, the lovely MSS. All of which pretty much is good on everything.

Like I said previously, Praetorians make sense, since he brings a Res Orb and more choppy power to their jump pack assault, though they have the issue of being, you know, Praetorians.

I thought about just sticking him with some Heavy Destroyers. Not only is it nice thematically, but he keeps them safe from any back line assaults, tanks things on his 2+, and brings a Res Orb which they couldn't otherwise run. Also, keeping him back there makes it harder the opponent to get Slay the Warlord off of him. Of course, his PE(E) is mostly wasted here.

Which brought me to Tomb Blades. Though grouping with them effectively removes their ability to Turbo Boost, he can grant the five bikes a Res Orb and PE(E). While they're already twin linked (and maybe even BS5), Tesla Carbines being Twin Linked and then rerolling 1s to wound is pretty grand. He can keep them relatively safe up to their prime shooting location, whilst they escort him towards whatever it is he wants to assault. And they're bloody cheap. I mean, I know Wraiths are stupidly cost effective per model, but dang, 5 Jetbikes for 100? Even upgrading them to 3+ (not entirely necessary, but nice) is only marginally more expensive, the same price as a full squad of Scarabs.

So basically, a Destroyer Lord grouped with a squad of Tomb Blades until they either get assaulted (which has great Overwatch and then MSS and a Warscythe) or until they split to track different targets - how bad would this be to run?