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Thread: Wizards versus Sorcerers
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2014-07-16, 01:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Wizards versus Sorcerers
Another thought that might pump sorcerers a little bit in the versatility department: While they still only count as having Sor/Wiz spells on their "class spell list" (and thus for purposes of spell completion/trigger items), they may learn any spell in the game that is of a level they could normally learn it at when filling their spell slots.
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2014-07-16, 01:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Wizards versus Sorcerers
Scribing costs are not the big money sink. I generally ignore them altogether, they end up being far less significant than the cost of the spells themselves.
ASSUMING (which no published setting does by default - even Forgotten Realms) that you have access to Ye Olde Magicke Marte with any spell in any book available for purchase as a scroll, a 3rd level spell costs minimum 375gp to purchase, and then 300 gp to scribe. A level 5 spell costs a minimum 1125gp to purchase, and then 500gp to scribe.
Everyone seems to assume the wizard is getting all these spells free, usually by trading with some conveniently available other wizard. Except the ability to find such a wizard is contingent on the DM, and is in most cases less available than the scrolls that show up as random loot on encounters.
Someone in this thread even went so far as to say it is the DM's job to make these wizard spellbooks available to the party wizard. No, it is not. In fact it is the DM's job to prevent such a thing from happening too often. Under no circumstances should the DM be proactively taking actions that make the strongest class in the game even stronger.Last edited by Talya; 2014-07-16 at 01:37 PM.
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2014-07-16, 02:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Wizards versus Sorcerers
There's a listed price for access to a spell in another wizard's spellbook (interestingly it's roughly the cost of writing the spell in a backup spell-book, which implies to me that you probably have to wait a day while he copies the spell prior to getting access to his "free" new backup book rather than the primary). The settlement size description on what's for sale pretty well states that it follows that you can get any spell at any settlement of any significant size.
Mind, I'd completely ignore this if convenient; but doing so in no significant way hinders the wizard, as he can get far more spells than he's likely to need at the cost of one feat and no cash.
Spell access is not a significant limitation in 3.x.
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2014-07-16, 02:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2013
Re: Wizards versus Sorcerers
While I've read most of this thread, I've skimmed over a few of the larger posts. What it looks like it boils down to is this:
The Wizard has (given some leeway in resources) a much more diverse spell selection, which may or may not be available at any given time. He may take 15 minutes to fill a previously unfilled slot with a spell from his books.
The Sorcerer, at least the smart one, has a much more versatile spell selection, which is available to him at any time. He might not have the Perfect Spell for the Job, but he probably has one that's close, and he can make it work. Compared to the Wizard, he doesn't need to know how many times he needs a spell each day.
The wizard gets spell access sooner, and depending on class features, can cast spells about as many times as a Sorcerer per day; the Wizard, however, gives up some of his vaunted diversity for this ability.
The Psion, on the other hand, laughs at your magical crutches, takes 10 minutes and a bit of EXP, and now knows an entirely different power set than she did at the start of this exercise. Also she can reassign her skills and feats while she does that. Side effects may include mild brain damage. We're still not sure how this works.
Edit:
Depends on the campaign. If your wizard is the highest level in the area, and you can't get anywhere else, then good luck finding someone to trade your high level spells with.Last edited by IAmTehDave; 2014-07-16 at 02:13 PM.
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2014-07-16, 02:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Wizards versus Sorcerers
No, that is not what it states.
It only states a cost for spellbook access in the event such a transaction is available. It does not state that such things are commonplace, or easily accessible, or that once you go through the arduous task of finding a wizard willing to trade spells that they will have precisely the spells you are looking for. It only presents a guideline for the cost when such a thing happens.
(As for that one feat...it's a very good feat. Keep in mind that if you plan to rely on it, you have to stay in Wizard without taking significant numbers of levels in any spellcasting-advancing PRCs.)Last edited by Talya; 2014-07-16 at 02:27 PM.
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2014-07-16, 04:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2014
Re: Wizards versus Sorcerers
Originally Posted by Noble Savant
You're also wrong about the number of spells, there are at least 2523 Wizard spells, possibly more. That also doesn't include the virtually infinite number of custom spells that can be created. We were only discussing the prefabricated ones.
Each spell requires a decipher script check (time cost negligible, but failure of which requires waiting another day, so anywhere from 0-infinity extra days).
Each spell deciphered requires a day of study and a spellcraft check (so at least 2523 days, or ~6 years minimum; failure means no retry until gaining skill points, i.e. levels...potential time, infinity.)
Each spell deciphered and studied requires another day to copy into their spell book, so another 6 years. So far we're looking at a minimum of 12 years time, plus possible stoppage time of infinity.
Perhaps this quill obviates some of that? But if it just reduces the scribe time, that's ok, but you still have to acquire the spells themselves which could take forever on its own.
Originally Posted by AmbervaelOriginally Posted by Shining WrathOriginally Posted by Hoard Gullet
Originally Posted by Karnith
I don't see a Wizard who spends 100% of their income on spells making it to level 10 for the opportunity to spend (just running a quick figure here: 500 to scribe, 250 to borrow or 1,125 to 10,125 to buy a scroll of is between 750, 1625, or 10625; so between 65 and 4 spells (of the highest level) of which there are only 43 in core, so 65% of available wealth) to spend 65% of their wealth on just that current level's spells. Assuming they can even find them.
I'd be fascinated to see someone actually try to do this in a game, but I don't see it as anything more than an amusing dream.