Sword Art Online II: Gun Gale Online

[Devonix]

IIRC this led to an offscreen solution to a problem that was primarily happening offscreen whilst the action focused on the nominal B plot.

Come now, the creation of steam ships changed the entire planet. and has continued to have ramifications since it's first appearance. It allowed for faster troop movements, and travel to places too dangerous to go on foot.

Also I'd say that the food storyline is one of my favorites in any anime period and that was a huge deal in how they affected the world.

But I didn't want to get into a debate about the show here, just wanted to know more about Sword art.

[Prime32]

"We got this unique vehicle that runs on MAGIC" is called fantasy last time I checked. Not sci-fi. Unless you want to argue that the first Final Fantasy is a sci-fi setting now.

The genre of a story doesn't change just because you take the guy in robes who sits in his evil fortress shooting lightning bolts at the heroic swordsman, and call him a Sith instead of a Sorcerer. A rose by any other name still quacks like a duck.

LH is more science fiction than fantasy because of its themes, not its setting. One of the major themes being "how new technology changes the world". And yes, cooking is a technology.

Incidentally, Reki Kawahara has said that SAO is blatantly not a sci-fi story.

[GloatingSwine]

LH is more science fiction than fantasy because of its themes, not its setting. One of the major themes being "how new technology changes the world". And yes, cooking is a technology.

It wasn't a new technology though, it's an inherent magical property of adventurers (a crafting skill of the Chef subclass).

You can't cook proper food unless you are actually a food wizard.

[Prime32]

It wasn't a new technology though, it's an inherent magical property of adventurers (a crafting skill of the Chef subclass).

You can't cook proper food unless you are actually a food wizard.

All technology relies on existing principles of the world. Before people like Nyanta realised you could craft food items without the menu there was no flavorful food in the world, even among its native inhabitants (or at least it wasn't well known). You might as well say the internal combustion engine isn't a new technology because it's an inherent property of the fuel.

[GloatingSwine]

All technology relies on existing principles of the world. Before people like Nyanta realised you could craft food items without the menu there was no flavorful food in the world, even among its native inhabitants (or at least it wasn't well known). You might as well say the internal combustion engine isn't a new technology because it's an inherent property of the fuel.

Yeah, but you actually have to have the right class to do it. Nyanta realised this because he has the Chef subclass and you have to have that subclass to make flavourful food.

You have to be a food wizard. The same ingredients using the same processes and the same technology of preparation will give you different results if you're not a food wizard.

[HMS Invincible]

Yeah, but you actually have to have the right class to do it. Nyanta realised this because he has the Chef subclass and you have to have that subclass to make flavourful food.

You have to be a food wizard. The same ingredients using the same processes and the same technology of preparation will give you different results if you're not a food wizard.

Your ignoring the lesson they learned from cooking was to stop using the in game command menu. Instead they learned to manually create food like in the real world. Once you learn that real world physics applies, the. Tippy verse begins. It's like using magic to create pure uranium for a nuclear reactor or to remove the columb force to create a supernova as a weapon.
Yes you're using magic but it's in a way that uses science to do what magic cannot easily do.

[Devonix]

Your ignoring the lesson they learned from cooking was to stop using the in game command menu. Instead they learned to manually create food like in the real world. Once you learn that real world physics applies, the. Tippy verse begins. It's like using magic to create pure uranium for a nuclear reactor or to remove the columb force to create a supernova as a weapon.
Yes you're using magic but it's in a way that uses science to do what magic cannot easily do.

One thing is that Log Horizon is about what is increasingly seeming to be a real world that for some reason is affected by videogame rules. As opposed to a game world where the characters are trapped which allows real world logic to let you affect things.

[JadedDM]

Mother's Rosario arc started today.

I'm just going to go ahead and guess that Zekken is, in fact

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a woman. It's the only explanation for why everyone kept insisting on using 'they/them' as a pronoun.

In fact, I'll go one step forward and guess the identify of Zekken is

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that purpled haired girl in the end credits.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Mother's Rosario arc started today.

I'm just going to go ahead and guess that Zekken is, in fact

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a woman. It's the only explanation for why everyone kept insisting on using 'they/them' as a pronoun.

In fact, I'll go one step forward and guess the identify of Zekken is

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that purpled haired girl in the end credits.

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Personally my pet theory is Ak... Ka... the guy who made SAO somehow used his digital existence to make a new account. However, I don't see a motive for doing so, and Kirito apparently doesn't think Zekken is too fast to be breaking the system.

Having just watched the end credits (I don't normally watch them when Hulu places an ad break there, but I went back and watched), I can't really see how the girl could be Zekken, but on the other hand I could totally see how the girl could be Zekken. This is SAO, having the most powerful player in the game turn out to be a cute girl who joins Kirito's entourage is not something I'd rule out.

[Forrestfire]

Spoiler: Decently Large Log Horizon Season 2 Spoilers

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Well, it appears that the world is gradually assimilating adventurers and now lets anyone cook, not just chefs. It's the food and the world, not a property of the adventurers.

I'd say that the fact that the adventurers couldn't cook is more of a property of them, given that the People of the Land seem to have no problem.

[deuterio12]

May as well keep the tangent going.

All technology relies on existing principles of the world. Before people like Nyanta realised you could craft food items without the menu there was no flavorful food in the world, even among its native inhabitants (or at least it wasn't well known). You might as well say the internal combustion engine isn't a new technology because it's an inherent property of the fuel.

Except that in log horizon the principles of the world are changing basically every episode. You can't claim it's SCIENCE! when nobody could make a regular steam boat with regular wood/charcoal, but when you add a fire elemental to the equation, then suddenly it works because lolwhut.

In SAO if dual wielding is an unique skill, then it remains an unique skill unless somebody is a mod and can hack the game code directly. In Log Horizon even something as basic as the ability to cook is now something completely random for the population for no reason given whatsoever.

[Forrestfire]

They can make a steam engine with fire and coal, but they used a fire elemental because it's more efficient, iirc. The people of the land had not invented steam engines yet, though, and you couldn't do it when Elder Tale was a game. The reason it's important is that the world is a world, or at least appears as such.

[HMS Invincible]

So Episode 19. The black knight being a girl was predicted correctly.
As for the fight, is she "cheating" like in Kirito and Asuna? You can break rules if you are hot blooded enough, a la Matrix.

[Hiro Protagonest]

No, I don't think it's cheating. Lis said that Kirito doesn't fight at full strength when there isn't a life on the line, while Zekken is 100% focused.

Spoiler: Stuff from this episode

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She beat Asuna using her really powerful Original Sword Skill, so I don't think that's cheating. Although the wiki says that apparently OSSs are created by breaking the system limits? Well at least she's not the only one who can.

Also, I remember now reading on the wiki that the two people that are known to the audience/readers to have OSSs are Eugene and some girl, so I should've made the connection. :|

There was something else though. I realized this before I went to bed last night, and double checked today to make certain. The duel request card that showed up for Asuna said "Opponent: Yuuki". I don't know what this means, but that's not Zekken, and that is Asuna's surname.

[Duck999]

I have heard some stuff about this arc from friends. No major spoilers, but I don't want to post them here anyway. It will probably be revealed in the next episode. But those new guys in the opening credits? I am expecting them to be only slightly weaker than Zekken Yuuki.

[JadedDM]

Spoiler: Episode 20

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Wow, even in the arc where Asuna is the main character, Kirito still has to show up and save the day.

[HMS Invincible]

Spoiler: Episode 20

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Wow, even in the arc where Asuna is the main character, Kirito still has to show up and save the day.

Agreed, the sexism is strong in this one. Though for a second, I totally thought Kirito was the guild leader who had ordered the raid in the first place.

[Hytheter]

Is it actually sexism or is it just "Kirito has to be the hero always"

Neither are examples of stellar writing of course

[Duck999]

That would have been an amazing entrance if it wasn't "Kirito saves the day!" all over again. Maybe if someone else dressed in black with Yui on their shoulder did the exact same entrance...

I really wanted to see the sleeping knights do that on their own.

[Foeofthelance]

Except the point isn't to defeat another guild, the point is to defeat the floor boss by themselves. No matter how flashy Kirito's entrance is at this point, he's just diversionary canon fodder while Asuna and the Sleepless Knight's continue on to their real goal.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

Ugh. Another trope I cannot stand in anime. Poor writing that results in typical lines like "THAT <insert subject here>". Either you dance around a subject artfully or you directly address it. What hack charges right up to the front door only to force a detour around the mountain? I'll wager that the suppressed subject is probably going to turn out to not even be something that merits all of the melodrama in the first place.

[Duck999]

1) I love Klien's entrance.
2) I love the reaction when they beat the boss and the other guild walks in.
3) I want the next episode sooner.
4) Note how on 'The Thing' (Swordman's Memorial), Asuna's name is under floor 18. That means that either Kirito was not there (Not something he would miss), or Kirito was not the party leader (not likely). Also, I don't think I saw Kirito as another party leader. Anyone know why Asuna's name would be there and not his?
I'm not complaining. It's actually a good thing, but it does not fit the characters very well.

[Hiro Protagonest]

1) I love Klien's entrance.
2) I love the reaction when they beat the boss and the other guild walks in.
3) I want the next episode sooner.
4) Note how on 'The Thing' (Swordman's Memorial), Asuna's name is under floor 18. That means that either Kirito was not there (Not something he would miss), or Kirito was not the party leader (not likely). Also, I don't think I saw Kirito as another party leader. Anyone know why Asuna's name would be there and not his?
I'm not complaining. It's actually a good thing, but it does not fit the characters very well.

I remember last episode when they showed the monument, Kirito and Asuna had names on the same column.

[Foeofthelance]

1) I love Klien's entrance.
2) I love the reaction when they beat the boss and the other guild walks in.
3) I want the next episode sooner.
4) Note how on 'The Thing' (Swordman's Memorial), Asuna's name is under floor 18. That means that either Kirito was not there (Not something he would miss), or Kirito was not the party leader (not likely). Also, I don't think I saw Kirito as another party leader. Anyone know why Asuna's name would be there and not his?
I'm not complaining. It's actually a good thing, but it does not fit the characters very well.

Actually, while Kirito is the nominal leader of the group, I would expect Asuna to be the party leader. Kirito's general tactic is to run up and hit things until they stop moving, while Asuna prefers to come up with a strategy. Kirito was also a solo player during the SAO arc, while Asuna was the big name in a guild. Kirito fights entirely on the front line, while Asuna has moved into a support role that would benefit from any extra information a party leader might be given. My assumption is that Asuna simply has a much longer friends list from her time as a guild leader, is therefore both more recognizable to other vets and probably often gets called on more for assistance. Coordinating with her is probably just easier, so she gets used as the group face.

Ugh. Another trope I cannot stand in anime. Poor writing that results in typical lines like "THAT <insert subject here>". Either you dance around a subject artfully or you directly address it. What hack charges right up to the front door only to force a detour around the mountain? I'll wager that the suppressed subject is probably going to turn out to not even be something that merits all of the melodrama in the first place.

Spoiler: Spoiler For Actual Spoilers

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The reason the group is named the Sleeping Knights is because they are all terminal medical patients who have been hooked up to Dive systems to give them some form of entertainment/freedom while their bodies deteriorate. They're not breaking up in the spring because they're all moving on with their lives, they're breaking up because that's when Yuki is expected to be dead.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

Spoiler: Spoiler For Actual Spoilers

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The reason the group is named the Sleeping Knights is because they are all terminal medical patients who have been hooked up to Dive systems to give them some form of entertainment/freedom while their bodies deteriorate. They're not breaking up in the spring because they're all moving on with their lives, they're breaking up because that's when Yuki is expected to be dead.

Spoiler: Suspected something along those lines.

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Though my pet theory was that they were all in comas as opposed to just being ill and escaping reality. I know it doesn't make sense if folks are logging out, and whatnot, but it worked with the sleeping theme and anime rarely makes sense anyway.

I guess I'm far too disenchanted with life, in general, to really empathize. If I were in her shoes, and the next in line to exit stage left, I'd have someone else from the group break the news and inform Asuna that it is up to her if she wants to go into the subject or not. If so, then the deets get elaborated as they are asked about. If not, then the collective keeps on keeping on because the clock is ticking and there are more asses left that need kicking. Given that life is not dissimilar to waiting on death row, with a date of execution marked as "surprise me", it seems like terminal patients should have the most incentive to sprint through grieving and yolo up the rest of the semi-known time table.

[Flickerdart]

Except the point isn't to defeat another guild, the point is to defeat the floor boss by themselves. No matter how flashy Kirito's entrance is at this point, he's just diversionary canon fodder while Asuna and the Sleepless Knight's continue on to their real goal.

Also, from the look of things he didn't actually win - he wasn't there when the guild entered the boss room (and he would want to be there, to congratulate Asuna). He literally just held the line for something like thirty seconds while Asuna used ridiculous hax of her own to punch through the other half of the raid party.

[Duck999]

Spoiler: Spoiler For Actual Spoilers

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The reason the group is named the Sleeping Knights is because they are all terminal medical patients who have been hooked up to Dive systems to give them some form of entertainment/freedom while their bodies deteriorate. They're not breaking up in the spring because they're all moving on with their lives, they're breaking up because that's when Yuki is expected to be dead.

That's the spoiler I got earlier from a friend.

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My first thought (after feeling sad) was that I felt really bad for their parents. Their children are terminally ill and don't interact with their parents. I guess it's okay if their having fun.

Edit: @Flickerdart: He said he could hold them off for 3 minutes, not 30 seconds. Against that many people, it is impressive.

[Flickerdart]

Edit: @Flickerdart: He said he could hold them off for 3 minutes, not 30 seconds. Against that many people, it is impressive.

Do we have any evidence that he actually did, and wasn't just boasting for his girlfriend's benefit? Because it certainly didn't take 3 minutes of on-screen fighting for the Knights to break through into the boss room.

[Foeofthelance]

Do we have any evidence that he actually did, and wasn't just boasting for his girlfriend's benefit? Because it certainly didn't take 3 minutes of on-screen fighting for the Knights to break through into the boss room.

Well, it was Kirito and Klein, two beaters from the death game, up against maybe 20 - 40 players in a PvE guild. We know Kirito has Original Sword Skills, and its likely Klein does as well. Considering how much damage Asuna did to her side of the field, I think the biggest problem they faced would be people running back from respawns and just wearing them down from attrition. What allowed them to "win" was the differing objectives.

-Asuna and the Knights just needed to get their party into the boss room. Once in, it would lock and keep the Raiders out while they fought the Ettin.

-Kirito and Klein just need to hold off long enough for the Knights to get in the room. Once the door is shut and locked, they can die at any point.

-The Raiders need to keep the Knights out of the room and get their reinforcements in place. The Raiders, by assumption, aren't as skilled as the Knights, and so need the numbers to take on the boss. As long as their members are dying, they can't enter the room, because while that would lock out the Knights, it would only be until the people in the room are killed. Meanwhile, the rest of the reinforcements would be locked out as well, which would give the Knights a chance to regroup and try again. Which would also allow Asuna and Kirito to call in reinforcements of their own.

[Hiro Protagonest]

We know Kirito has Original Sword Skills,

We do? Dual wielding doesn't count, it's not actually a game skill.