Sword Art Online II: Gun Gale Online

[Dusk Eclipse]

So the first episode of the second season of SAO was released a few days ago (last Saturday if I'm not mistaken) and I'm really surprised that there isn't a thread already discussing it, granted I don't follow the general Anime thread so it is possible they have discussed it in there, so yeah.

I just wanted to start some discussion because I really enjoyed SAO and I'm really curious how they are going to go from a Death-Game/Rescue Arc to what appears to be a more investigation/intrigue focused arc, or at least that is the way it appears to me from the episode. Something that really caught my attention is that Kirito is going to bring swords to gun-fights, however I have to admit that I'm a little disappointed as GGO seems to me the perfect setting to introduce gunblades. Other thing that caught my attention in the ending was a scene with had Asuna, Yui, Leafa, Lizbeth and who I assume to be Silica in their Alfheim forms, which says to me that perhaps not all of the action will be focused in GGO but we may perhaps see other MMO "born" from the seed.

[Prime32]

I want to point out some of the Accel World foreshadowing for anyone who missed it. Not only does Kirito talk about applying The Seed to AR, we even get to see one of Accel World's Social Cameras in its first trial run.

Other thing that caught my attention in the ending was a scene with had Asuna, Yui, Leafa, Lizbeth and who I assume to be Silica in their Alfheim forms, which says to me that perhaps not all of the action will be focused in GGO but we may perhaps see other MMO "born" from the seed.

Spoiler

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Nope, just GGO and ALO, with ALO being the protagonists' usual hangout. Others exist (including non-games like virtual conference rooms), but they never go into detail about it.

Anyone know if they're just covering the Phantom Bullet arc, or if they'll be doing Mother's Rosario as well?

[Dusk Eclipse]

Is Accell world an anime or another visual novel? I've heard of it, but I haven't read or see any actual material from it.

And I have no idea about those arcs, I guess it is a possibility considering the first anime/season showcased the Aincrad arc and the Fairy Dance one so I guess another two-arc season is most likely. Incidentally is the new Aincrad arc set before or after the Bullet Dance arc? ... man it seems Kawahara likes naming his arcs after dances

[Hiro Protagonest]

Uh, the arc name is Phantom Bullet.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Officially? Because all I've read/heard refers it as bullet dance.

[HamHam]

I'm crossing my fingers for this turning out to actually be a Death Note crossover.

[Prime32]

Uh, the arc name is Phantom Bullet.

*brainfart*

Is Accell world an anime or another visual novel? I've heard of it, but I haven't read or see any actual material from it.

Neither of them is a visual novel. A VN is something you view on a computer or game console, with graphics and music. A light novel is a novel that restricts itself to commonly-used kanji for ease of reading (and which typically has illustrations, though they're not a requirement).

Anyway, Accel World is a light novel that Kawahara wrote after SAO, set 25 years later in the same world. His writing is a lot more polished in it, and in fact the publishers only picked up SAO as an afterthought while working out the deal for AW. Its anime adaptation came out before SAO's, and was by a different studio (it also has a better English dub than SAO, from what little I've seen).

Best comparison I've seen is that if SAO is Superman, AW is Spider-Man.

A description of the difference between Spider-man and Superman I read a few months ago.

The writer tells us Superman can lift cars, and then he lifts cars and we're not surprised.

Stan Lee tells us that Spider-man cannot lift a car, throws a car on top of Spider-man and then we're surprised when Spider-man lifts the car.

They're both basically the same, Spider-man/Haruyuki is just more dramatic and engaging because he overcomes his flaws rather than merely using his strength.

[Dusk Eclipse]

My bad I meant light novel, not visual.

[HandofShadows]

Something that really caught my attention is that Kirito is going to bring swords to gun-fights,

It work only for people that are very, VERY good with a sword. If just about anyone else tried it, they would be toast.

[Fiery Diamond]

I haven't read any of Accel World, but I have watched the anime. It's much less interesting in its premise, but also less Mary-Sue-ish in its execution, than SAO. I read SAO (translated) up until just a tiny bit after Phantom Bullet. The start of the arc after Phantom Bullet wasn't engaging enough for me to keep reading. Kirito definitely has some Sue-ish traits in SAO; I like SAO but Kirito is a little too perfect. We'll get to see more of that in SAO II, what with his... erm, "dodging" skills. Also, the rotating female lead is kind of annoying (and related to another Sue aspect of Kirito, he who has all girls fawning over him). In the Aincrad arc our female lead was Asuna, which worked well. Then we had Suguha/Leafa in the Alfheim arc, who is... problematic. Then in Phantom Bullet/GGO we have yet another female lead who has her own share of issues. 'Course, Accel World has that particular Sue problem too (almost). Is it too much to ask of this author to have his protagonists not have all the girls falling for them?

Haven't watched any of SAO II yet. I'll probably wait until there's a handful of episodes first.

[HamHam]

The way in which most virtual games are portrayed in anime is really weird. Like, setting aside my problems with how these games are completely unrealistic in terms of how actual games are designed in the modern day (serious death penalties, no quick travel systems, etc all dead out a decade ago in AAA MMO development), stuff like the "He's so strong he can smile on the battlefield!" thing from this episode is just really dumb. It's a game. If you're not smiling, why the hell are you playing it.

[HandofShadows]

I think the point of him smiling is that he was doing that during the Death Game when people are fighting for their lives. Not to have fun. It actually points to Kirito being slightly nuts.

[Dusk Eclipse]

The way in which most virtual games are portrayed in anime is really weird. Like, setting aside my problems with how these games are completely unrealistic in terms of how actual games are designed in the modern day (serious death penalties, no quick travel systems, etc all dead out a decade ago in AAA MMO development), stuff like the "He's so strong he can smile on the battlefield!" thing from this episode is just really dumb. It's a game. If you're not smiling, why the hell are you playing it.

Well to be fair it isn't a normal MMO, it is VRMMO we don't really know how a human mind would handle a quick-travel, and to be honest the MMO I'm most familiar with, Runescape, has "severe" death penalties (you loose all but your three most expensive items), granted you have some time to get them back before they are up for grabs and while there are quick-travel system you have to unlock them by finding them or even completing a quest before you get to use them. Besides SAO isn't a normal MMO by any means (Death Game aside), it seems to take after older games where the only point was to reach the boss and go on to the next level. My Personal headcannon to explain this anomalies is that it was a "special" version of Aincrad, the normal version of the game would have been much closer to other MMOs, after all Kayaba's goal was to make an actual living world.

I think the point of him smiling is that he was doing that during the Death Game when people are fighting for their lives. Not to have fun. It actually points to Kirito being slightly nuts.

Genre convention I guess, in most Shonen (?) anime the protagonist always seems to enjoy battles. And I honestly doubt anyone came out completely sane from SAO.

[JadedDM]

HamHam was actually quoting the most recent episode of SAO II, which does not take place in Aincrad but in Gun Gale Online. The line was not about Kirito, but rather the guy with the huge mini-gun.

And yeah, it was silly, but the thing with Sinon is she takes the game way too seriously. Remember when she freaked out when her guild leader wanted to just log out and give up? I don't want to spoil anything, but there is a reason she acts that way.

[HamHam]

That guy was also being a big baby about losing a Call of Duty match.

[JadedDM]

Haha, good point. Although we don't know what the death penalties are for GGO, even if they are severe (losing all of your gear, money, level loss, etc.), he was rather overreacting to losing a game. That was kind of a problem in the ALfheim Online game, too. Every acted like death was so dramatic. At least that made sense in Aincrad where game death meant real death.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Just watched episode 2, I agree that people are over-reacting at death, but maybe the threat of SAO is still fresh in their minds or maybe Death Gun, even if people don't really believe in his existence he isn't a normal urban legend, even if it is supposed to be impossible for an Amusphere to kill anyone they know people have died while playing VR game.... or maybe they are just really intense RPers.

Still despite having seen so little of Shion I find myself liking here.

[Hiro Protagonest]

...

Well at least I get to see GGO Kirito in the opening credits.

I don't get how a competitive game can be so unbalanced in a way that doesn't make the creator money. Buying lots of card packs (or paying lots of money for one card to someone who did buy lots of card packs) in MtG makes WotC money. No respec level system is stupid for a competitive game.

Spoiler: Episode 2 (the time where smiling comes up) spoilers

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And the thing about smiling was stupid. The guy dodged a sniper round and pulled out a powerful machine gun that the PvPers did not expect at all. It's a game, and he just pulled a trump card. He should be happy about that. The only time you really wouldn't smile when doing that is in RTS games because you've got to be concentrating.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Let's just say that Shion has her reasons to react to the smile they way she did. As for the no-respec thing, perhaps there is a fee for every new character/avatar? I don't know there could be many reasons why it doesn't exists.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Let's just say that Shion has her reasons to react to the smile they way she did.

Yes, I know her backstory. But she's been playing for a while to be the best sniper, and it's the first time she's seen it. The guy's also known for being macho.

[thubby]

the whole story after they left SAO was a trainwreck, i can't imagine how much more they can drag this out.

[Hiro Protagonest]

the whole story after they left SAO was a trainwreck, i can't imagine how much more they can drag this out.

It's more like the wreck itself was after Aincrad, but the train got on the wrong track before then. Like, at episode 3. There was still hope of it getting back on the right one during the episodic stuff with a new girl every week, but then we got the actual plot stuff. The only good thing about it was Klein because he was funny and had a practical fighting style.

Obviously the reason Fairy Dance sucked was because of a lack of Klein.

Actually I liked Suguha. I just feel like Fairy Dance would've been way better if there wasn't the whole srs bsns plot and it was about Kazuto and Suguha and his friends from SAO.

[JadedDM]

Obviously the reason Fairy Dance sucked was because of a lack of Klein.

Actually I liked Suguha. I just feel like Fairy Dance would've been way better if there wasn't the whole srs bsns plot and it was about Kazuto and Suguha and his friends from SAO.

I would totally watch a spin-off that was just about Klein.

But yeah, I don't see why SAO has to be so dark and serious. In ALFheim, for instance, I was actually more interested in the B-plot about the Salamanders trying to destroy the Sylph/Cait Sith alliance with a mole in the Sylphs than the A-plot about saving Asuna from being married to a jerk.

I think it'd be great if SAO had a story arc where the kids just had fun playing a great game. No high stakes, no real deaths; just having fun exploring a virtual world and making up their own in-game stories.

[Socratov]

But yeah, I don't see why SAO has to be so dark and serious. In ALFheim, for instance, I was actually more interested in the B-plot about the Salamanders trying to destroy the Sylph/Cait Sith alliance with a mole in the Sylphs than the A-plot about saving Asuna from being married to a jerk.

Well, I liked both of them. The darkness in SAO was quite strong, while the lightness in ALO was a nice contrast. I agree that the B-plot was great. Now with GGO, we again, get a dark episode/arc before returning to a more lighthearted storyarc/game world.
I think it'd be great if SAO had a story arc where the kids just had fun playing a great game. No high stakes, no real deaths; just having fun exploring a virtual world and making up their own in-game stories.[/QUOTE]

Wasn't that ALO? IIRC the only seriousness or pressure was made up by the players themselves (except for Kirito needing to save Asuna).

[HandofShadows]

Oh, yeah forgot another reason Kirito (and even Asuna) can get away with stuff other poeple can't.

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They cheat. But not in the normal way. Both Kirito and Asuna have broken the "rules" of the game at one point. Surving after he was "dead" at the end of SAO and turning into a real (huge) monster in the Fairy Dance arc when he was supposed to only create the illusion of the monster. Asuna broke the games speed limit on movement saving Kirito in SAO. I suspect that on some level they are altering the game around them, but have no idea they are doing it and can only do so in certain circimstances.

[Closet_Skeleton]

I think it'd be great if SAO had a story arc where the kids just had fun playing a great game. No high stakes, no real deaths; just having fun exploring a virtual world and making up their own in-game stories.

Again, Accel World has elements of that, while also having stuff that isn't fun but is grounded in realistic motivations rather than SAO just having an evil DM,

If you want the evil DM story done right watch Princess Tutu or Kokoro Connect.

Oh, yeah forgot another reason Kirito (and even Asuna) can get away with stuff other poeple can't.

Also something Accel World goes into a lot of detail on.

[HamHam]

OMG the new girl's backstory is ludicrous.

Also the mechanics of this game continue to make no sense.

Finally, the pace seems really slow.

[Hiro Protagonest]

The backstory was fine. They did, however, spend way too much time on showing how it affects her and such. Spreading it out with action in between is what will keep people interested, not an entire episode of infodump. Also, they spent too long on various scenes.

[Halae]

OMG the new girl's backstory is ludicrous.

Also the mechanics of this game continue to make no sense.

Finally, the pace seems really slow.

in order: The new girl's backstory actually fits with how the japanese treat individuals in that situation. The dissonance is culture shock, not it being a bad setup.

SAO and ALO worked the same way, so just roll with it.

Give it until episode 5 or so; it starts really speeding up once the Battle of Bullets actually begins.

[HamHam]

The actual thing that happened is ludicrous. It's use as a whole is some MOST TRAGIC BACKSTORY EVER levels of ridiculous, especially when the tone of the show does not remotely justify this kind of thing. Although that's not really a new problem for this series.

Spoiler: episode 3

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Not only does that guy had to have been on some crazy drugs to just keep getting up after getting shot twice, but the recoil on that gun is going to do way more than kind of make her swing it upwards, and she apparently has magical aiming powers to have managed that headshot at the end.

Like, he couldn't have just gotten shot in the struggle and died, because that wouldn't be EXTREME enough. I guess.